Will RFC make the 8 in 2013?

[torch]

IMHO and it saddens me to say it but I believe this latest rebuild is on the verge of failure. I say this because a rebuild is supposed to be the basis for a club achieving the ultimate and in AFL Footy that is a premiership. In the game against geelong we only had 3 or 4 players who had played under 50 games of footy Geelong had 9 or 10. Collingwoods stocks of younger players also show more. Essendon for all the question marks have flown past us again. Port seems to have found plenty of young players who seem to find the balls to fight out of a problem. For all the redevelopment we have a bunch of panic merchants in our team, some who have been their for years, we have others who have specialised in turning over the football game in game out for years, our supposed stars never lift when the team is in trouble. We are on the verge of another failed rebuild and its sad for all of us because the only positive that our club has ever had over 30 years is the supporters and the members who year in year out do their bit by buying memberships and supporting the clubs fundraising plans.

If the reason for doing a rebuild is to get the basis to winning a flag then sadly I reckon this one is done and dusted. Sadly I think the last 2 years to many mistakes have been made in terms of which players were brought into the club the moneyball philosophy doesnt work in AFL IMHO. This rebuild wont win us a flag. Feel very sad for our supporters, deserve better but its not happening. Two years have been wasted and not enough quality kids have been brought into the club. The likes of Ellis and Conca and Vlastuin are good but its not enough. 1 quality kid a year is not enough. To become a decent club you need 2 years with getting 2 or 3 quality kids out of a draft. We havent done that.

Spot on Ramps!

And Hardwick actually doesn't give those 2nd or 3rd round draft picks a shot.

[Rampstar]

Just told it how it is. Sadly all this rebuild has done is make us middle of the road, stranded once again in no mans land getting crap draft choices again.

[Willy]

Just told it how it is. Sadly all this rebuild has done is make us middle of the road, stranded once again in no mans land getting crap draft choices again.

Could it be that we are now at 'middle of the road' because its difficult to get from 'hopeless' to 'premiership contender' straight away?
Maybe we're still developing? Nah, because we've lost to good teams this year we must have arrived at our destination of mediocrity. 

[Smokey]

Just told it how it is. Sadly all this rebuild has done is make us middle of the road, stranded once again in no mans land getting crap draft choices again.

Could it be that we are now at 'middle of the road' because its difficult to get from 'hopeless' to 'premiership contender' straight away?
Maybe we're still developing? Nah, because we've lost to good teams this year we must have arrived at our destination of mediocrity. 

Last year we were able to convincingly beat both grand finalists with top shelf football.  Go figure.  The conundrum that is Richmond.   

[Judge Roughneck]

Just told it how it is. Sadly all this rebuild has done is make us middle of the road, stranded once again in no mans land getting crap draft choices again.

Could it be that we are now at 'middle of the road' because its difficult to get from 'hopeless' to 'premiership contender' straight away?
Maybe we're still developing? Nah, because we've lost to good teams this year we must have arrived at our destination of mediocrity. 

We are playing,  list blockers in the 22.

They are not still developing. These types have reached maximum output.

[unplugged]

The bad drafting, the lack of developing juniors, the tired trying to win with duds mentality has not changed since Hardwick joined Richmond. 

But where Hardwick has been worse than previous coaches is his Game Plan.  We struggled against Port and Melbourne.  These clubs are nowhere near us in terms of list development.  Miles behind.  But our chip chip Robert Walls defensive game plan is biting us big time.  We are as impotent as a gummy shark.

While we have a dud coach that is pig headed in his belief that a skilled, defensive game plan is the only way to win a flag, we will continue to fail.  Clarkson has Franklin and Roughhead, and still he struggles to win a flag apart from his fluke first year.  They struggled against GCS on the weekend.  Its a losing game plan that has done nothing to stop the losing culture at Richmond.  It requires a ridiculously skilled team to execute and we have not recruited to that effect.

Think about it rationally.  You know half the list are average disposers of the ball.  Would you.

a) Go for a high skilled chip chip defensive game plan where our best users can be negated and be rendered useless.

or

b) Run with a long kicking attacking game plan, where we move the ball quickly and our forwards get a chance at one on one contests.

Most of our players are long kicks.  We should play more like Essendon and Geelong.  Take the game on at all costs and get it to Jack and our other talls and let our running midfield mop up the rest.

The difference between a good coach and a bad coach is like night and day.  95 Northey had us in the finals with an average list and a few stars.  But those B graders were able to execute his game plan because it was simple and not beyond their abilities.  96-97 Walls led us nowhere with a similar list that he only just began decimating.

[tigs2011]

Agree with everything except we bent Port over.

[Hard Roar Tiger]

Just told it how it is. Sadly all this rebuild has done is make us middle of the road, stranded once again in no mans land getting crap draft choices again.

 

[tony_montana]

Just told it how it is. Sadly all this rebuild has done is make us middle of the road, stranded once again in no mans land getting crap draft choices again.

Could it be that we are now at 'middle of the road' because its difficult to get from 'hopeless' to 'premiership contender' straight away?
Maybe we're still developing? Nah, because we've lost to good teams this year we must have arrived at our destination of mediocrity. 

We are playing,  list blockers in the 22.

They are not still developing. These types have reached maximum output.

Very true Willy, but Bents has nailed the response. We don't expect top be world beaters, but most supporters are not idiots either and can see when things are going off the rails. Continually playing the same spuds and bumping players like petterd up through the ranks ahead of 2nd, 3rd and 4th year players after not even half a preseason of training has still got me stuffed..

[Gigantor]

just wondering did we play finals under northey in 95..didnt think we did...sheesh my memory is getting bad

[WilliamPowell]

just wondering did we play finals under northey in 95..didnt think we did...sheesh my memory is getting bad

 

Yeah we did

[Phil Mrakov]

just wondering did we play finals under northey in 95..didnt think we did...sheesh my memory is getting bad

 

Yeah we did

Still can't believe he didn't coach us again after 95

[tdy]

It's the 2nd and 3rd round picks that have killed us Ramps, both pre and post Hardwick.
The first round picks are easy and have mostly picked themselves. It's looking like we have overpaid for Vickery at Pick 8 and I still think we have spent too lavishly on Conca (you can develop those players from lower round, even rookie picks) and I don't need to remind anyone that we are still paying the price for the Tambling pick.
But the critical 2nd and 3rd round picks have either been frittered away on stupid trades or just haven't come on and I think that is where we are hurting. The McLovin/Mitch Morton double hurts the most, Chris Mayne and Jack Steven both went after Morton, closely followed by nothing out of Griffiths/Post or Astbury.
Unfortunately the trend is continuing under Hardwick's watch and it's forcing him to use the likes of McGuane/Jackson/Lonegan/Nahas/Petterd etc to plug the holes.

yeah but for all of those drafts the 2nd and 3rd rounders are actually 4th and 5th rounders.  At least Hardwick hasn't lost the players like Wallace or Walls.

[big tone]

It's the 2nd and 3rd round picks that have killed us Ramps, both pre and post Hardwick.
The first round picks are easy and have mostly picked themselves. It's looking like we have overpaid for Vickery at Pick 8 and I still think we have spent too lavishly on Conca (you can develop those players from lower round, even rookie picks) and I don't need to remind anyone that we are still paying the price for the Tambling pick.
But the critical 2nd and 3rd round picks have either been frittered away on stupid trades or just haven't come on and I think that is where we are hurting. The McLovin/Mitch Morton double hurts the most, Chris Mayne and Jack Steven both went after Morton, closely followed by nothing out of Griffiths/Post or Astbury.
Unfortunately the trend is continuing under Hardwick's watch and it's forcing him to use the likes of McGuane/Jackson/Lonegan/Nahas/Petterd etc to plug the holes.

yeah but for all of those drafts the 2nd and 3rd rounders are actually 4th and 5th rounders.  At least Hardwick hasn't lost the players like Wallace or Walls.

Post, Griffiths and Astbury are second and third round picks..

[tigs2011]

Just told it how it is. Sadly all this rebuild has done is make us middle of the road, stranded once again in no mans land getting crap draft choices again.

Could it be that we are now at 'middle of the road' because its difficult to get from 'hopeless' to 'premiership contender' straight away?
Maybe we're still developing? Nah, because we've lost to good teams this year we must have arrived at our destination of mediocrity. 

We are playing,  list blockers in the 22.

They are not still developing. These types have reached maximum output.

Correct. And we could get the same results playing promising players and actually build towards a flag. Hardwick needs to play some of the 2nd/3rd round picks if he wants them to develop. Astbury/Griff/Helbig/Dea are all rotting at the moment at that poo stain of Coburg.