Francis Jackson on TAC Cup Future Stars (Ch 9 today 1pm)

[Penelope]

which expert's advice would he have been ignoring?

[RedanTiger]

which expert's advice would he have been ignoring?

Shannon Hurn
AIS Academy selectors - 2004 AIS Academy.
Central District coaches - 2004 & 05 Premierships (named in best for '05 GF).
SA U18 Selectors - 2005 SA state rep.
SA Coaches - 2005 SA Captain.
AA Selectors - 2005 AA team.3
Also had a rookie contract with SA to play cricket as a junior in 2004 and passed on another in 2005.

Jarrod Oakley -Nichols
WA Selectors - 2005 State Rep.
"He started the year in the Colts and while he doesn't get a lot of the footy he can be very damaging with 15 possessions across half back-midfield"
East Perth football manager, Jarrod Chipperfield from Inside Football 9/11/05.

[Penelope]

sorry, still cant work out who's expert advice he was receiving and then ignored

[HKTiger]

Add to that:
- Wallace wanted speed.  TW rated our list the slowest in the AFL when he took over.  His game plan relied on outside speed.

Hurn tested as very slow at the draft camp.  JON tested top for agility and very high for speed.

At the following pre-draft night, 2006, (held at the old Social Club) the speed aspect got discussed at length.  Very interesting insight were the stats that had been compiled in the previous 8 months.  Which apparently was pretty much the first thing that FJ organized.  Hayden Hill, our only IT guy, was managing the old website and compiling little databases of player stats going back 10 years if at all possible.

That was the Polak for picks 8/13 draft and FJ sweating on Jack lasting to pick 13.  FJ's next favourite for pick 13 was Ben Reid. The longer development time was part of the reason he preferred Jack.  FJ did just love Jack's footy smarts.  At that night, FJ acknowledged assisting GM at the previous draft but that 2006 was the first where a) he was no longer teaching and b) where he had part of the structure that he needed/wanted.

[RedanTiger]

sorry, still cant work out who's expert advice he was receiving and then ignored

   Experts who I listed in  the previous post - selectors and coaches.

As a recruiter - part time, professional amateur or internet "expert" - you would look first of all at kids selected for the AIS academy the year before.
Then you would look at where they are playing now - TAC, WA Colts or State League seniors.
Then you would look at State team selections.
Then you would look at leadership in those teams.
Then you would look at best players in the National Championships
Then you would look at All Australian selections.
Finally you would look at draft camp testing.

[Tigeritis™©®]

My take on the myriad of recruiting blunders during the Miller Reign;
Due to the club having a narcissistic president, a board with no talent & a CEO with no vision, they all thought it a great idea to enlist the services of a has been football manager & hammerheads icon in Greg Miller.
Now Miller was definetely a "do it all" kind a guy as well as having his ear to the ground he thought it unnecessary to actually watch any prospective recruits as he could just choose players every other team was interested in.
Teams like Geelong were already a step ahead of us & started by leaking the names of the worst kids in the draft to guys like Burgan and labelling them as "prospective players of great interest", thus fulfilling every teams wishes of effectively nullifying all of Richmonds picks.
Unfortunately for us we were like that "special" kid at school who thought he was in on the joke but was actually the joke himself. 

Geelong 2005 national draft.
National   1   15   Travis Varcoe
National   2   31   Trent West
National   2   35   Stephen Owen
National   3   47   Ryan Gamble
National   4   61   Mathew Stokes

Richmond 2005 national draft.
National   1   8   Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls
National   2   24   Cleve Hughes
National   3   40   Travis Casserly

[HKTiger]

Interesting.  Coz the following year Varcoe came up in discussions.  The "information" the club had on the "seriousness" of his foot injury put them off.

Just like the seriousness of Joel Selwood's knee in 2006.  Now Joel didn't last to 8 or 13 so would not have made it to us in any case.  But he did last to 7 and Hawthorn had pick 6 and took that super talented, guaranteed round 1 pick by the highly vaunted Chris Pelchen in Mitch Thorp.  In BF about 12 months later, Chris Pelchen, in Canberra, revealed that the medical report that Hawthorn had meant that Selwood was a definite no no.  Was mentioned by GM and FJ as well.  They had a medical report.  Joel Selwood's AFL career would be finished when he was 23.

So maybe Steve Wells "great" record at the draft has an element of spurious info to other clubs to throw them off the scent.

What I see is an improving trend.  As our knowledge and coverage grows, we get better at the gig.  Given what he had at his disposal in 2006, I don't believe you can judge FJ on the first few years.

I'm better at my job now than I was 5 years ago.  Sometimes you just need to build experience, collateral, processes, IP etc.

If you have to start from scratch, and given what FJ and GM discussed in 2006, we started from scratch in April 2006, when do you consider an organisation mature ?  3 years ? 5 years ?  I know in my industry 3 to 5 years is the bare minimum before you are considered "mature".

Note:  This discussion about mature recruiting teams gets analysed to death over here in the US with respect of the NFL and NBA.  The consensus amongst fans is that you need the right GM, the right hands off approach to the recruiters and 3 years to get the recruiting mature and structured.  The GM and structure is seen as key.  (There's an entire thread on "Da Bears fan blog dedicated to it.)  The structure came in 2008/9 for us.  Whether you agree with Craig Cameron or not, the point is he was only appointed to head the Footy Dept in 2008/9.  And Benny came on board in 2009 ??

[Tigeritis™©®]

Geelong is definetely doing some dodgy business no doubt about it.
But I'm on to them.   

[tigs2011]

Agree HK, then you need to let the picks mature and develop. Especially when compared to American sports where they are developed at College until they're ready 19-22yo as opposed to our 18 year olds.

[Penelope]

sorry, still cant work out who's expert advice he was receiving and then ignored

   Experts who I listed in  the previous post - selectors and coaches.

As a recruiter - part time, professional amateur or internet "expert" - you would look first of all at kids selected for the AIS academy the year before.
Then you would look at where they are playing now - TAC, WA Colts or State League seniors.
Then you would look at State team selections.
Then you would look at leadership in those teams.
Then you would look at best players in the National Championships
Then you would look at All Australian selections.
Finally you would look at draft camp testing.

thats how the armchair experts work.
the real experts watch the kids in action, of have someone they trust do. they speak to the kids, to their family and to their coaches.

i can now see what you are saying and find it a very strange description of ignoring the experts. if not reading inside football is ignoring the experts then id say that most recruiters were and still are guilty.

[RedanTiger]

thats how the armchair experts work.
the real experts watch the kids in action, of have someone they trust do. they speak to the kids, to their family and to their coaches.

i can now see what you are saying and find it a very strange description of ignoring the experts. if not reading inside football is ignoring the experts then id say that most recruiters were and still are guilty.

Judging on your latest it seems that you're intent on ignoring what I post.
Since we are talking about Jackson being a part-time recruiter, unable to watch the kids in action, I would agree that he would be an "armchair expert".
So why didn't he take note of the things I've mentioned, like AIS, AA, SANFL premierships?

"the real experts watch the kids in action"
So you are saying that the AIS selectors, SANFL senior coaches, SA U18 selectors, SA U18 coaches are not real experts?

"they speak to ....their coaches"
But you've said that's only for armchair experts since I've listed both Hurn's club and state coaches among the experts opinion.
 
The only reason why I quoted the East Perth Football Manager was to give an idea of how JON was viewed within his junior club.
But hey it was reported in Inside Football so it must be untrue.   

[one-eyed]

Sliding Doors: round 11
By Damian Barrett
Friday, June 7, 2013

Richmond
     
IF ....... it was fair game to attack Richmond’s recruiters during the past 10 years

THEN … it is only fair that we all acknowledge they’ve got a lot of decisions very, very right in recent years.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-06-07/sliding-doors-round-eight

[Penelope]

thats how the armchair experts work.
the real experts watch the kids in action, of have someone they trust do. they speak to the kids, to their family and to their coaches.

i can now see what you are saying and find it a very strange description of ignoring the experts. if not reading inside football is ignoring the experts then id say that most recruiters were and still are guilty.

Judging on your latest it seems that you're intent on ignoring what I post.
Since we are talking about Jackson being a part-time recruiter, unable to watch the kids in action, I would agree that he would be an "armchair expert".
So why didn't he take note of the things I've mentioned, like AIS, AA, SANFL premierships?

"the real experts watch the kids in action"
So you are saying that the AIS selectors, SANFL senior coaches, SA U18 selectors, SA U18 coaches are not real experts?

"they speak to ....their coaches"
But you've said that's only for armchair experts since I've listed both Hurn's club and state coaches among the experts opinion.
 
The only reason why I quoted the East Perth Football Manager was to give an idea of how JON was viewed within his junior club.
But hey it was reported in Inside Football so it must be untrue.

so going by your theory the 22 all australians should fill the first 22 draft selections and if they don't then the recruiters are ignoring the experts?

you don't think that when talking to the coaches the recruiters would ask a few more in depth questions than a journalist?

I doubt too many would question that he was behind the eight ball in terms of time and resources, but if you want to believe that not using the tried and true internet expert formula is ignoring the experts then bully for you.

[RedanTiger]

so going by your theory the 22 all australians should fill the first 22 draft selections and if they don't then the recruiters are ignoring the experts?

you don't think that when talking to the coaches the recruiters would ask a few more in depth questions than a journalist?

I doubt too many would question that he was behind the eight ball in terms of time and resources, but if you want to believe that not using the tried and true internet expert formula is ignoring the experts then bully for you.

And going by your theory AIS selectors, SANFL coaches, State selectors and state coaches have no idea and are armchair experts.
The coaches have demonstrated what they really think by their actions (eg selecting Hurn for TWO SA gf's while a junior or slecting him as the SA captain) rather than any red herring about talking to journalists.

So now looking at academy selections, state league records, state junior selection and national junior selections are "internet expert formula".
I look forward to reminding you of this thread when next you post your opinion of drafting juniors.

[Penelope]

sweet, good luck with that. one of the reasons i dont pass too much judgment on juniors is because i don't know too much about them and dont use such simplified measures to try to make out I do.