Top 4 in 2014 or bust for this Richmond playing group: Wallace

[one-eyed]

Summary of the full Richmond 2013 review/2014 preview by Wallace:

* Their Final was awful. They choked! Had the game but inexperience in finals cost them.

* Hate Richmond using the excuse they are a young side. They aren't. They are a mature side. A side in 2014 with Newman (32), Stephenson (32), A.Edwards (30), King (30), Chaplin (28 ), Maric (28 ), Jackson (28 ), Foley (28), Deledio (27), Knights (27), Lonergan (27), Grigg (26), Houli (26), Petterd (26), Riewoldt (25), S.Edwards (25), Morris (25), Cotchin (24), Rance (24) and Vickery (24) isn't young. They can't say anymore "we're on the journey" or inexperienced. The time is now!

* Solid midfield group. Inside fine but not so sure of the outside regarding run and carry especially if Deledio plays at HB.

* Sees Lids as the swingman. Someone who can play HB/HF. Makes it harder for him to be tagged. Does struggle with tags.

* Conca and Ellis hence needed for that run and carry in the middle of the ground if Lids plays more HB. Ellis was well held in the Elim Final while Conca was out injured.

* Getting Hampson was the right move. Maric and Hampson do the bulk of the ruck work. With Vickery in the forward line, only need Ivan and Maric to spend small spells up forward.

* Chaplin and Rance teamed well together in the backline. Still get caught with that bigger body with Grimes as the third defender. It's time for Astbury and Griffiths. Need them to step up so Grimes isn't playing on a big tall.

* Well stocked for small/midsized defenders so good run and carry out of defence. So the issue in the backline is that bigger body.

* Hampson puts pressure on Aaron Edwards. Can't see all of Jack, Vickery, Aaron Edwards and a resting ruck working.

* Small forward short of the mark. Their that Jeff Garlett/Lindsay Thomas player short of getting the forward line right. It's the missing piece of the puzzle. Best footy is past Kingy given he's now 30. Shane Edwards is playing more in the midfield while White is gone.

* 3 out (McGuane, White and Tuck); one in (Hampson). Crammed up with salary cap issues so don't expect them to do much else in the trade period.

* Too reliant on Cotch, Lids and Martin so need younger mids to step up. Key tall players need to step up - Jack Riewoldt has been down over the past two years; what's his best possie/role? Moving him up the field in the final didn't work. Richmond went too far trying to get other avenues to goal. Not necessarily Hardwick's fault as you tell players to do one thing and they'll take it to the limit. Vickery is the key - good is very good but bad is terrible - it's either a 3/10 or 7/10; They need Vickery to deliver consistency and give 7/10 performances pushing up to 8.5/10. There's also 202cm McBean in the wings but you can't expect much from him at this stage at his age.

* 15 wins doesn't happen by accident but it doesn't guarantee you'll do it again. 7th is the perfect finish for Richmond as they'll play the middle of the roads sides twice next year. So they'll need to beat the sides around them challenging for the Eight to make the finals again. They will get a superior draw compared to what they delivered. Need to take the next step in 2014 to challenge the top sides or they never will with this playing group. 

http://audioboo.fm/boos/1659289-terry-wallace-list-manager-richmond.mp3

[Hellenic Tiger]

Whilst I find Walla$$ comments rich I have grave fears for us making the 8 again next year.
I don't think we have done enough during trade time so far and whilst FJ and co have done well in recent years with our first rounders I still think we may be short up forward and one or two impacting mids whether whether inside or outside short of really pushing into the top 4.

Injuries and or a bad draw and possibly getting ahead of ourselves and we could slide easily like the Crows did this year. Historically we haven't made successive finals since the halcyon days of 74/75.

[Diocletian]

Pretty galling for The List Mangler himself to come out with this. He had us locked and loaded after our "best ninth ever" and IIRC only once  took more than the bare minimum in the national draft.

Even more galling though is that for the most part is that he's actually right. Maybe a year out with the "now or never" assessment and last year's draw wasn't soft. North & Adelaide 2012 is what defines "soft". Really though, draws can often become soft or hard as a season plays out differently to what was the expectation based on the previous season. (Have we played GCS or GWS twice in a season yet - or at home?)

Either way, 2014 should be the end of the era of excuses. We're not rebuilding anymore and whilst we may not have an "aging" list, they're not a bunch of kids either. Even taking into account improvement from other sides, our (so far &IMO) unadventurous, peeweak trading efforts and barring a horror run with injuries we should at least hold our spot.

My main concern is if & how we cover for the loss of pace in White's absence -we really needed to add our pace stocks with White still on the list as it was- and whether Hardwick has the abilty to recognise this as well a few other, relatively minor & simple tweaks that need to be made.

[RollsRoyce]

Personally I think we over achieved this year.

Personally I think we under achieved this year. After waiting for 12 years to make the Finals, to bow out in the pathetic manner that we did against a side who only made it into the 8 by default was an absolute disgrace.

[Francois Jackson]

Personally I think we over achieved this year.

Personally I think we under achieved this year. After waiting for 12 years to make the Finals, to bow out in the pathetic manner that we did against a side who only made it into the 8 by default was an absolute disgrace.

Absolutely agree here here my friend

One of the most accurate comments I've read in a while

[cooper007]

top 4 will always be a HUGE call depends on our draw which I must say we should be due for a decent one for a change if we can pull gws , stkilda and melbourne twice there is 6 wins automatically. When we think about it we can match the likes of the hawks year in and year out and fremantle but its what those teams do in there remaining games they don't drop games they shouldn't were we seem to most times.

Ill be happy to see us with 15 wins again and win a final love to win the flag don't get me wrong but I just don't think we can with this cattle..

GO U TIGERS

[Phil Mrakov]

I agree it's top 4 or bust for me too.

(see how stupid it sounds)

[Judge Roughneck]

Newman (32), Stephenson (32), A.Edwards (30), King (30), Chaplin (28 ), Jackson (28 ), Foley (28),Knights (27), Lonergan (27), Grigg (26), Houli (26), Petterd 26

 

How many in our best side

[Smokey]

Exactly Bents.

5, 6 at most and the oldest is 28.  Just shows how poor The List Manager's perspective really is.  I'm just hanging out for his "I was responsible" comment after our next flag.

[Chuck17]

Top 2 or fail......no excuses

[the claw]

Newman (32), Stephenson (32), A.Edwards (30), King (30), Chaplin (28 ), Jackson (28 ), Foley (28),Knights (27), Lonergan (27), Grigg (26), Houli (26), Petterd 26

 

How many in our best side

so from age 24 upwards we are talking quality. wejust dont have enough of it. in fact we are littered with battlers in the key age brackets on the list. theres currently how many aged 24 or more, i count  20 odd and the problem is they are battlers in the main inconsistent have chronic weakness etc
trouble is far too many  aged 23 and below are still struggling even to get a regular game they are unproven..my money is on not making finals next yr but hey ive said that months ago.

we have numbers in most areas but we lack quality or too many are unproven.
if a pile of our kids do not improve we will not make the 8. i say kids because the seniors 24 and above have shown over too many yrs that they cannot sustain any sort of decent form.

[Judge Roughneck]

Thank you captain no shyte

But what your saying doesn't strengthen Wallace argument. If anything you are claiming he is wrong and we should be better by '15 than currently and next year.

If what you say is true - the older half of our list are not much good - why is it top 4 or bust  next season? This is nonsensical.

[the claw]

Thank you captain no shyte

But what your saying doesn't strengthen Wallace argument. If anything you are claiming he is wrong and we should be better by '15 than currently and next year.

If what you say is true - the older half of our list are not Mich good - why is it top 4 or bust  next season? This is nonsensical.

id say wallaces perspective is based on what the club itself has done  top 4 is the aim.
id say wallace is basing his opinion on the clubs actions over the last two yrs and the fact we have plenty in the 24 plus age bracket. plus our ladder finish.
if a good percentage of our under 23s do not step up and significantly improve we will go into rebuild mode again pretty quickly.
a few of us have been screaming out we have not built a thing that is sustainable. and yes imo the older half of our listy is average at best ive been saying this all along.

geez
hampson, petterd, edwards, lonergan, stephenson, morris, maric, knights, and chaplin in two yrs says what to most people. thing is most are nothing more than a quick attempt to build a bit of depth,  add on or slightly improve on what we had or a desperate attempt to fix a hole in the list..  some were even taken for no other reason  than  of a lack of decent experienced players.
i dont disagree with most of what we have done but we have not targeted quality in improving the list.

theres  not a lot of  quality but others dont see it that way. they see a pile of mature players coming to the club and they see just 3 and 4  nd picks used in the last two seasons.  and its like;ly we will use just 3 nd picks this yr the way its going. we certainly have not been in rebuild mode not with youth anyway.

at the end of the day i suppose  it comes down to how each individual rates and ranks players. wallace obviously thinks theres been enough decent players taken whereas me i disagree.

look ive had nothing but praise for us getting houli and grigg really good processes. but ive also regularly stated with them in time we will likely have to upgrade on the upgrades. you dont very often get quality players for nothing. but you can regularly value add.

[(•))(©™]

i dont disagree with most of what we have done but we have not targeted quality in improving the list.

 

[tdy]

Newman (32), Stephenson (32), A.Edwards (30), King (30), Chaplin (28 ), Jackson (28 ), Foley (28),Knights (27), Lonergan (27), Grigg (26), Houli (26), Petterd 26

 

How many in our best side

I think Wallace has missed the point with that lot.  4-6 in our best 22 but 8 out of 12 are recruited from elsewhere.  Our key core group are Cotch , Vickery , Rance and Martin et al, all around 23 or 24.  Reiwoldt is the odd core one out at 26.

The fact is you can recruit average middle age or older players now. And this old group represent exactly that.  Recruited for a purpose and as such none of them are great.  You won't find anyone recruiting star players in the young age bracket without massive inducements and high draft picks.

My point is this policy of recruiting middle ranked players to fill holes is sustainable and as such you will always have an old looking group in your list that are average.  Its the star players that are the key.  As long as we don't have to do it over one or two years we could replace all of those older players with similar ability players from other clubs.

I think Wallace is talking rubbish, its Cotch's age that matters not Kingy's and he has 5 or 6 years left.  Imagine Cotch plus 5 more 1st round draft picks like Vlastun then we ought to be in real contention.  This "list" has years ahead of it, there is no "bust", its just a process of replacing retiring average players from outside with like players. 

You bust like Hawthorn when Buddy leaves and Mitchell, Sewell, Hodge, Burgoyne, Gibson, Lake and Guerra retire.  Of that lot you can only replace Lake, Guera and Gibson.  You have to get lucky to replace a really good mid like Burgoyne and the others are high draft picks.

If he said hawthorn is likely to bust next year or the year after then I'd agree, all their core drafted talent is very old.

Wallace was a bad list manager and it shows.