RFC AS A WHOLE!

[letsgetiton!]

our team lacks what it takes at this stage to be anything but medioca

1/ NO BRAINS!!!!   as a whole we only have a couple of players with footy smarts, krak being our only true intelligent footballer!!  in general , we are the most supid team in th eafl, why do i say this , time and time again , players make the wrong choices in decision making, that is a grey matter matter issue , and its time when recruiting, all future players must pass an iq test at a high level!!!!


2/ NO HEART!!!   as above we only have a handful of players with true heart and passion 4 the club,. richo being on top of the list!!!


3/ NO BALLS!!!  we are still the weakest team in the afl, refuse to tackle effectively , its a disgrace that a little man like krak is our best tackler and most effective tackler!   we also have the least amount of courage, ok andy kellaway and cogs show one form of courage, but they along with many others are to gutless to take risks and do what has to be done!!!  chris hyde and tuck are leading the way in taking risks and showing the most balls!!!


4/ NO SPRIRIT!!!   I WAS AT THE GAME ON TO TOP DECK WATCHING!! I COULD HEAR FROM LEVEL 3 THE ADELAIDE PLAYERS  TALKING TO EACH OTHER, SCREAMING SHOUTING,  communicating , and really playing as a team, to many of our players just dont talk and let their team mates know they are backing them up or there to assiist receive or be an option 4 them! morrison many times made space to receive the ball 4 eg, waving his arms like a wind mill but u not once was he screaming out!!! he is not the only one, we are too quiet on the ground and thats lack of team spirit!!!

5/ NO SKILL!!!!  players like sugar, joel, tivendale, chaffey, gaspar, kellaway are all senior players with patheitc disposal skills by hand and foot, their effictive disposal rate is low , their error rate high!!! as a whole they set the scene as to why we have a pathetically low level skilled team!!!  play the kids terry , u cant drop sugar as he is captain, but its time, tiv, chaff, kell, gaspar took a spell!!!! joel play him up fwd!!! bring in archibald, patterson, shulz, gilmore, moore, bling, polo,meyer, foley!!! etc, and who cares if they make mistakes, but its all about experience and building a new team that  can gell!!!

[mightytiges]

1/ NO BRAINS!!!!   as a whole we only have a couple of players with footy smarts, krak being our only true intelligent footballer!!  in general , we are the most supid team in th eafl, why do i say this , time and time again , players make the wrong choices in decision making, that is a grey matter matter issue , and its time when recruiting, all future players must pass an iq test at a high level!!!!

The main issue as far as I'm concerned. Most of our blokes don't understand modern footy and the way it's played or at the very least can't think at the speed they need to to succeed at this level.

I mean if you have the ball wide on a HBF you basically have four options don't you - (i) kick it down the line to at best a 50/50 contest (ii) Find someone in the centre of the ground - best option if the bloke is free (iii) switch to the other side of the ground if this side is congested (iv) handball off to someone running past at pace who can break that line. In any of the four cases you need to decide immediately what you are going to do once you have the ball and you need your teammates to be running hard into space to create the best attacking options. Not enough of our guys run into space so the bloke with the ball hesitates to do one of the last three options then stops and goes back and by that time the opposition has flooded back and picked up a man. So our bloke then either kicks it down the line like we're back in the 70's or risks a pass elsewhere and if the pass isn't pinpoint they turn it over. As a team they just either won't follow the gameplan or more likely simply don't understand the hows and whys of it all. We need a bloody simulator for them over pre-season to drill into their brains how modern footy is played! They just will not run once their confidence is gone  .

2/ NO HEART!!!   as above we only have a handful of players with true heart and passion 4 the club,. richo being on top of the list!!!

They are professional footballers (or meant to be) but they are such a confidence team.

3/ NO BALLS!!!  we are still the weakest team in the afl, refuse to tackle effectively , its a disgrace that a little man like krak is our best tackler and most effective tackler!   we also have the least amount of courage, ok andy kellaway and cogs show one form of courage, but they along with many others are to gutless to take risks and do what has to be done!!!  chris hyde and tuck are leading the way in taking risks and showing the most balls!!!

We wave our arms like we're stuck in the ocean waiting to be rescued by a lifesaver and correll the opposition players instead of going staright for them and tackling them. FFS like someone like Mcgregor is going to side-step you    . McGregor had the ball at true CHF 60m out and we correlled him giving him the time he needed to find Welsh. Even when we were winning earlier in the year we were doing it     

An side will cut you open if there's no pressure or intensity on them. Another part of our game that falls away once we lose our confidence.

4/ NO SPRIRIT!!!   I WAS AT THE GAME ON TO TOP DECK WATCHING!! I COULD HEAR FROM LEVEL 3 THE ADELAIDE PLAYERS  TALKING TO EACH OTHER, SCREAMING SHOUTING,  communicating , and really playing as a team, to many of our players just dont talk and let their team mates know they are backing them up or there to assiist receive or be an option 4 them! morrison many times made space to receive the ball 4 eg, waving his arms like a wind mill but u not once was he screaming out!!! he is not the only one, we are too quiet on the ground and thats lack of team spirit!!!

No point calling for the ball if you're not willing to work and run hard into space to receive the footy or run pass to receive it by hand.

5/ NO SKILL!!!!  players like sugar, joel, tivendale, chaffey, gaspar, kellaway are all senior players with patheitc disposal skills by hand and foot, their effictive disposal rate is low , their error rate high!!! as a whole they set the scene as to why we have a pathetically low level skilled team!!!  play the kids terry , u cant drop sugar as he is captain, but its time, tiv, chaff, kell, gaspar took a spell!!!! joel play him up fwd!!! bring in archibald, patterson, shulz, gilmore, moore, bling, polo,meyer, foley!!! etc, and who cares if they make mistakes, but its all about experience and building a new team that  can gell!!!

The Crows have some wonderfully skillful players but they had them there last year too when they were crap. They stil have plodders. The whole side brilliant because they were working for each other and getting the ball in space and doing so under no pressure whatsoever. Yeah Welsh and Perrie and just superstar forwards of the game  .

Our backline's skills have been a worry for years. That won't improve until the Gas', Kellaway's etc are replaced. That pass in the backline by Gas was the right idea but he doesn't have the foot skills and basic technique over that distance to execute it and of course it dropped short straight to a Crows' player 50m out.

[letsgetiton!]

isnt it ironic that in the mid season review tery wallace pointed out everything i mentioned in my initial post and also added one more


the tigers are playing WITH NO PASSION!!!!!!! but i sup;pose that that can come into the no sprirt category.

i cab see at least 7- 12 more changes in our list next yr

[mightytiges]

the tigers are playing WITH NO PASSION!!!!!!! but i sup;pose that that can come into the no sprirt category.

Wallace brought that up after the Melbourne game when Joel (playing the week after copping a depressed checkbone and all) kicked a great goal and the team didn't rush to him to congratulate  .

[letsgetiton!]

i just wish we can get back the passion and spirit that northey brought to the club when he coached. they playered likk etrue brothers in arms, played 4 each other and sacrificed 4 each other. at the moment they seam like a group of individuals not a true team

[mightytiges]

i just wish we can get back the passion and spirit that northey brought to the club when he coached. they playered likk etrue brothers in arms, played 4 each other and sacrificed 4 each other. at the moment they seam like a group of individuals not a true team

The problem under Northey was we oozed passion but didn't have the class or skill apart from half a dozen to go the next step. That win over the bombers hid a poor second half of that year and two heavy finals defeats. As we found out in 2001 you don't get pumped in a PF for nothing. We need the class and skill as well as the passion and belief if we serious want to challenge and win a flag.

[letsgetiton!]

i just wish we can get back the passion and spirit that northey brought to the club when he coached. they playered likk etrue brothers in arms, played 4 each other and sacrificed 4 each other. at the moment they seam like a group of individuals not a true team

The problem under Northey was we oozed passion but didn't have the class or skill apart from half a dozen to go the next step. That win over the bombers hid a poor second half of that year and two heavy finals defeats. As we found out in 2001 you don't get pumped in a PF for nothing. We need the class and skill as well as the passion and belief if we serious want to challenge and win a flag.

i know what u mean about the northey era but imagine our team had that passion along with skill and class.  that would be a dream come true

[SaveFeriss]

Needs more time. Wait for TW's 3rd and 4th year for the skill levels and proffesional application from players to improve to an acceptable level.

[Tiger Spirit]

The main issue as far as I'm concerned. Most of our blokes don't understand modern footy and the way it's played or at the very least can't think at the speed they need to to succeed at this level.

That’s one side of things MT, the other is that it’s not just an individual thing.  It's easy to criticise individuals for decision making and skill errors, but it's a team game.  The results, and the way we fall apart, say a lot about how the ‘team’ works together and helps one another out.  That’s why you play in a team isn’t it?  Only in our case, more often than not, we play as individuals and no side can achieve anything playing this way.  Players are under more pressure simply because we don't play as a team, therefore decision making and skill errors increase.  The nearest thing I’ve seen to us playing as a team was in that Carlton game.  You could easily dismiss that game because there was very little pressure from the opposition, but at least players showed they do know how to carry out the game plan TW wants them to play.

It’s sticking to the game plan under pressure we have a problem with.  Under pressure is where you get to find out how solid a team is; in belief, work ethic, commitment, desire and all those other things, and we just get found out every time how brittle we are in the areas that count and how far we have to go.  How much that can change simply by having different players in the team who knows.  This mya not be right but, with us, you almost feel it's a cultural thing, as much as anything else, within the playing group.

Whatever the reasons for this are, it’s going to take some time to get things not only going in the right direction, but working properly, so if TW wants us to be competitive, as we work towards a better list, then he may have to find a way to get something more and different out of the current playing list.

[mightytiges]

That’s one side of things MT, the other is that it’s not just an individual thing.  It's easy to criticise individuals for decision making and skill errors, but it's a team game.  The results, and the way we fall apart, say a lot about how the ‘team’ works together and helps one another out.  That’s why you play in a team isn’t it?  Only in our case, more often than not, we play as individuals and no side can achieve anything playing this way.  Players are under more pressure simply because we don't play as a team, therefore decision making and skill errors increase.  The nearest thing I’ve seen to us playing as a team was in that Carlton game.  You could easily dismiss that game because there was very little pressure from the opposition, but at least players showed they do know how to carry out the game plan TW wants them to play.

It’s sticking to the game plan under pressure we have a problem with.  Under pressure is where you get to find out how solid a team is; in belief, work ethic, commitment, desire and all those other things, and we just get found out every time how brittle we are in the areas that count and how far we have to go.  How much that can change simply by having different players in the team who knows.  This mya not be right but, with us, you almost feel it's a cultural thing, as much as anything else, within the playing group.

Whatever the reasons for this are, it’s going to take some time to get things not only going in the right direction, but working properly, so if TW wants us to be competitive, as we work towards a better list, then he may have to find a way to get something more and different out of the current playing list.

I don't disagree with anything you've said there TS but I do wonder if it's more than a commitment and work ethic issue within the playing group and that some of our blokes just don't understand the way modern footy is played. That's why I mentioned Tiger players on a HBF. He isn't under any physical pressure and normally there are a few options to go to. Yet a number of our guys hang onto the ball for so long that even if the options are initially open they are gone by the time our bloke is ready to offload. 

It's true you need two to tango so to speak. The player with the ball needs to move it on quickly and he can only do that if there are teammates running into the right spaces. For those who can't do either then I'm sure Wallace will turf them out come the end of their contract or if a suitable trade is found.

[Tiger Spirit]

I don't disagree with anything you've said there TS but I do wonder if it's more than a commitment and work ethic issue within the playing group and that some of our blokes just don't understand the way modern footy is played. That's why I mentioned Tiger players on a HBF. He isn't under any physical pressure and normally there are a few options to go to. Yet a number of our guys hang onto the ball for so long that even if the options are initially open they are gone by the time our bloke is ready to offload. 

I know what you mean MT and I also think a lot of our problems have to do with players’ understanding of the game.  But because we’ve had such a history of mediocrity, to me it seems maybe there’s more to it than just that.  And I don’t think we’ve encouraged the “team” side of things enough in the past and maybe it still hurts us now, to some degree.

Things don’t change just by bringing in new players.  Our list changed many times over the years and still nothing changed.  It’s only early days yet, we know, but despite a change of players and game plan after last season, we’re still relatively uncompetitive against better opposition.  There will be a transition period between mediocrity and becoming a good team.  Do we now simply wait until that better list arrives?  And what certainty is there that a better list will bring about the changes we want anyway?  After all, Clubs with better lists than ours have achieved about as much as us, even though they’ve played in more finals series than we have in recent times.

You still have to teach and encourage players to learn the team aspects of the game, regardless of who they are and their ability?  Even if the game plan isn’t carried out properly now, for whatever reason, at least if we can occasionally see that we are developing a good team oriented playing culture then we can hope to be remotely competitive against any opposition, if not now then in the future.

[mightytiges]

But because we’ve had such a history of mediocrity, to me it seems maybe there’s more to it than just that.  And I don’t think we’ve encouraged the “team” side of things enough in the past and maybe it still hurts us now, to some degree.

You still have to teach and encourage players to learn the team aspects of the game, regardless of who they are and their ability?  Even if the game plan isn’t carried out properly now, for whatever reason, at least if we can occasionally see that we are developing a good team oriented playing culture then we can hope to be remotely competitive against any opposition, if not now then in the future.

I agree TS. There seems to have been a culture of mediocrity that has held back the Club for years. Our recruiting has in the main been horrible but even when we pick up an apparently skillful young draftee we appear to "Richmondise" them over a few years to the point where we don't see any improvement in them or our list. In fact it appears in some cases their skills have deteriorated compared when they first arrived. I remember when Ottens first arrived at Punt Road he was a dead-eye shot for goal but by the time he left and even now at the Cats he's no longer a reliable goalkicker like he was.

We've just got hope and place faith that we now have the people (Wallace, Miller, etc) and structures in place that will help to encourage and develop our youngsters with ability to be the best players they can be both individually and team-orientated so we can one day match it with the best in the AFL. It'd be a disgrace if the talents of the likes of Deledio were wasted. 

[Tiger Spirit]

There seems to have been a culture of mediocrity that has held back the Club for years. Our recruiting has in the main been horrible but even when we pick up an apparently skillful young draftee we appear to "Richmondise" them over a few years to the point where we don't see any improvement in them or our list. In fact it appears in some cases their skills have deteriorated compared when they first arrived.

Partly why I don’t see skill errors and decision making as the big issue others do is because players who can’t cut it won’t last longer than necessary.  The problem is that, while the players may change, the culture still remains, unless you actively do something about it.  This bit from an article by Michael Voss probably says it best.

Confidence: hard to get, but easy to lose
By Michael Voss
June 26, 2005

But a team under pressure must have the confidence to stick together. A coach must have faith in his methods, and players must have faith in the coach. Together, they must resist the outside factors and rely on their inner strength. They must focus more than ever on the team, and it's got to be about actions and what everyone can do to turn things around rather than words.

In a team environment, there is maybe an even greater need for confidence. Because not only must you be confident in yourself, but you must be confident in those around you. And it's something that can come and go quickly.

For the rest of the article, go to:
http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/realfooty/articles/2005/06/25/1119321940517.html?oneclick=true

Better players make a team better, but obviously that’s not all it takes to be competitive and to be the best, as Michael Voss points out.  We couldn’t say we’ve had that sort of environment, that Voss talks about, at RFC in recent memory.  And the reason I don’t think it’s just a skill or decision making issue for us is because we always seem to fall away so quickly under pressure.  To me, a lot of that comes back to playing as individuals and not as a team.  You can accept losing, if you have to (through gritted teeth), but not the way we so often lose games.  It’s been the same way for years.  All Clubs lose games, even in the way we do, but not over such a long period of time and as predictably as we seem to manage.
 
With players like Richo and Cambo, you feel for them because they’ve probably never really been part of a playing environment at RFC that Michael Voss describes.  In the past, things have always fallen apart just as quickly as they ever got going.  You’d like to think we are now changing the fragile habits of the past.  But as much as we say it will take time to improve things and develop the list, you at least want to see that the habits and traits players are developing along the way are based on more than just executing skills properly and good decision making.

That’s all necessary and important, but it’s not the whole solution either, otherwise Geelong coulda won about another 5 premierships up to the mid 90’s.

Do we see these team traits often enough now, even from the better players, to say that players are developing good team habits, which will help improve and set standards for the future?

Or do we just think that a better list will make it all happen?  Even if we accept that we’re not good enough to match it with the better teams now, you’d like to see more players dig in when things get tough, and show that things are changing, rather than expect to see that sinking ‘here we go again’ feeling overwhelm most of them, and supporters as well.

[mightytiges]

Partly why I don’t see skill errors and decision making as the big issue others do is because players who can’t cut it won’t last longer than necessary.  The problem is that, while the players may change, the culture still remains, unless you actively do something about it. 

Better players make a team better, but obviously that’s not all it takes to be competitive and to be the best, as Michael Voss points out.  We couldn’t say we’ve had that sort of environment, that Voss talks about, at RFC in recent memory.  And the reason I don’t think it’s just a skill or decision making issue for us is because we always seem to fall away so quickly under pressure.  To me, a lot of that comes back to playing as individuals and not as a team.  You can accept losing, if you have to (through gritted teeth), but not the way we so often lose games.  It’s been the same way for years.  All Clubs lose games, even in the way we do, but not over such a long period of time and as predictably as we seem to manage.

No question TS the environment at Tigerland has been shambles for decades prior to this year. The problem as we all know over the past 25 years or so has been when things aren't producing quick results the Club has gone into panic and reactionary mode under pressure from "outside" influences and swung the axe at the coach instead of showing patience and thoroughly understanding then implementing what needed to be done to take us out of a cycle of mediocrity.

Hopefully all the hoo-haa surrounding the election and the subsequent result showed we've matured as a footy club and our "eat our own" culture is finally dead and buried. Still early days though as Wallace is in his first year and apart from the last couple of games everything else about 2005 has exceeded our expectations. The test again will be can we hold our nerve and have faith in the process (the word of 2004 lol) if we aren't improving as fast as many supporters would like in a couple of years time.

In terms of executing skills and decision making under pressure you IMO rely more than ever on your natural skills, ability and instincts as you get very little time to think if at all. If your technique has major flaws, which for example a number of our backmen have in terms of their kicking, then you get found out very quickly. So in that sense turning over and more importantly improving our list with smart recruiting matters the most IMO. We can't blame the culture at the Club if guys like Duncan, Gas, etc never learnt to kick properly as kids and teenagers unless we blame the recruiters and coaches for drafting them in the first place.