Author Topic: Give us back the old Jack Riewoldt: Lloyd (Age)  (Read 5751 times)

Offline Penelope

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Re: Give us back the old Jack Riewoldt: Lloyd (Age)
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2014, 10:47:51 AM »
once again you just highlight that you are not the sharpest tool in the shed.
That is something i have never said. In fact no one has said that he should not or is not spending time forward.

It just seem to sink in that martin is not, nor will he, play predominately accross half back. He is, and will continue to, playing on the ball and resting up forward as well.

But you continue with your tarded line of thinking that he isnt and wont be playing forward at all.
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Offline WA Tiger

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Re: Give us back the old Jack Riewoldt: Lloyd (Age)
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2014, 10:52:46 AM »
once again you just highlight that you are not the sharpest tool in the shed.
That is something i have never said. In fact no one has said that he should not or is not spending time forward.

It just seem to sink in that martin is not, nor will he, play predominately accross half back. He is, and will continue to, playing on the ball and resting up forward as well.

But you continue with your tarded line of thinking that he isnt and wont be playing forward at all.

once again you just highlight that you are not the sharpest tool in the shed.
"In fact no one has said that he should not or is not spending time forward." YES THEY HAVE and its not just me.

It just seem to sink in that martin is not, nor will he, play predominately forward. He is, and will continue to, playing back.

But you continue with your line of thinking that he isnt and wont be playing back all the time.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 10:39:30 PM by WilliamPowell »
DIMMA - You will be held ACCOUNTABLE...

“We are really excited about what we have brought in. We have got great depth of players that can take us where we need to go. We are just putting some cream on the top at the moment,” he said.

"Rucks:
Shaun Hampson is the No.1 man"

Offline Mr Magic

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Re: Give us back the old Jack Riewoldt: Lloyd (Age)
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2014, 10:54:54 AM »
Lloyd's thinking is 10-12 years out of date.
We didn't make the finals when Jack was our sole focus, we didn't make the 8 with Richo as our sole focus.
If Jack is only effective at FF, then perhaps we need to move Jack on..
Multiple scoring options is exactly what we require and Hardwick is right to follow this path.
It's not all about Jack.

Offline Smokey

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Re: Give us back the old Jack Riewoldt: Lloyd (Age)
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2014, 11:01:07 AM »
I can't believe I have just read an article written by Lloyd that I agree 100% with.  I'm going outside now to check for low-flying porkers.

Offline froars

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Re: Give us back the old Jack Riewoldt: Lloyd (Age)
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2014, 11:03:53 AM »
It's not all about freaking Jack, it's the whole forward line
As he said, we don't have Rougheads and Riolis, but there's five other forwards out there supposed to do something and yes, they have to work around Jack mainly.  This is where Jack, if he wants to show he's a leader, is to take leadership of the forward line and stop sulking.  Give direction without abusing them, work together because the coach sure isn't and get back some confidence and cohesion down there. 

Offline Smokey

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Re: Give us back the old Jack Riewoldt: Lloyd (Age)
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2014, 11:13:38 AM »
Lloyd's thinking is 10-12 years out of date.
We didn't make the finals when Jack was our sole focus, we didn't make the 8 with Richo as our sole focus.
If Jack is only effective at FF, then perhaps we need to move Jack on..
Multiple scoring options is exactly what we require and Hardwick is right to follow this path.
It's not all about Jack.

But Jack wasn't the reason we didn't make finals and nor was Richo.  Neither player in those times had the personnel around them to collectively play finals on any sort of regular basis - a fluke year every now and then was as good as it might ever have been.  Now that we have a a tight defence and a strong and burgeoning midfield offering much better supply then there is no need to lose our forward line structure just to cover deficiencies upfield.  Riewoldt in the square doing what he does best, Vickery/Elton/McBean at CHF, Edwards (A)/Knights/Lennon as the 3rd-up forward and our mids rotating through the forward line provides a strong structure that stops teams double and triple teaming our key forwards and makes us unpredictable enough to cause the opposition headaches.  The thing that will bring us undone is the lack of commitment from the players on field to stick to the team rules and game plan.  We need to get the small forward position sorted but there is enough structure and ability around those already there to make finals on a regular basis.

Offline Mr Magic

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Re: Give us back the old Jack Riewoldt: Lloyd (Age)
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2014, 11:31:40 AM »
Lloyd's thinking is 10-12 years out of date.
We didn't make the finals when Jack was our sole focus, we didn't make the 8 with Richo as our sole focus.
If Jack is only effective at FF, then perhaps we need to move Jack on..
Multiple scoring options is exactly what we require and Hardwick is right to follow this path.
It's not all about Jack.

But Jack wasn't the reason we didn't make finals and nor was Richo.  Neither player in those times had the personnel around them to collectively play finals on any sort of regular basis - a fluke year every now and then was as good as it might ever have been.  Now that we have a a tight defence and a strong and burgeoning midfield offering much better supply then there is no need to lose our forward line structure just to cover deficiencies upfield.  Riewoldt in the square doing what he does best, Vickery/Elton/McBean at CHF, Edwards (A)/Knights/Lennon as the 3rd-up forward and our mids rotating through the forward line provides a strong structure that stops teams double and triple teaming our key forwards and makes us unpredictable enough to cause the opposition headaches.  The thing that will bring us undone is the lack of commitment from the players on field to stick to the team rules and game plan.  We need to get the small forward position sorted but there is enough structure and ability around those already there to make finals on a regular basis.

Disagree. With Jack as our spearhead that we go through predominantly, we become predictable no matter how many goals he kicks personally.

Besides he is NOT the same player of 3 years ago. He has lost his leap for a start.
When was the last time you saw him stand on a players head? Injuries have curtailed what was one of his greatest strengths in the key position role.

He has slimmed right down to try and get some of his leap back and mobility back but based on what we saw against Gold Coast he wasn't all that effective. Moving him back to a KPF role with his current body shape will not work.

I prefer him on the flanks with Vickery and Griffiths/Elton/McBean taking the arial impact, with Jack playing as a lead up forward who crumbs the heavy hitters and sets up goals.
This is one signficant aspect that Lloyd has overlooked in his article, Jack's ability to set up goals.
Yes he only kicked 50 odd last year in a lesser role away from FF but he set up almost as many. His assist work is massively underrated by the media scribes who look for a headline.

I just hope jack is capable of playing the role Hardwick wants him to because if he's ineffective in that position, we might need others to have a crack at it.

Jackstar is back!!!

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Re: Give us back the old Jack Riewoldt: Lloyd (Age)
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2014, 11:42:59 AM »
Say you like about Llordo but he did kick 1000 goals and might have a point here.

Got about 5000 free kicks too


Usually do if you play in front  ::)

Offline Smokey

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Re: Give us back the old Jack Riewoldt: Lloyd (Age)
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2014, 11:44:14 AM »

Disagree. With Jack as our spearhead that we go through predominantly, we become predictable no matter how many goals he kicks personally.

Besides he is NOT the same player of 3 years ago. He has lost his leap for a start.
When was the last time you saw him stand on a players head? Injuries have curtailed what was one of his greatest strengths in the key position role.

He has slimmed right down to try and get some of his leap back and mobility back but based on what we saw against Gold Coast he wasn't all that effective. Moving him back to a KPF role with his current body shape will not work.

I prefer him on the flanks with Vickery and Griffiths/Elton/McBean taking the arial impact, with Jack playing as a lead up forward who crumbs the heavy hitters and sets up goals.
This is one signficant aspect that Lloyd has overlooked in his article, Jack's ability to set up goals.
Yes he only kicked 50 odd last year in a lesser role away from FF but he set up almost as many. His assist work is massively underrated by the media scribes who look for a headline.

I just hope jack is capable of playing the role Hardwick wants him to because if he's ineffective in that position, we might need others to have a crack at it.

Fair enough, I don't agree but only hindsight holds the answer to who's right.   :thumbsup

Offline Dice

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Re: Give us back the old Jack Riewoldt: Lloyd (Age)
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2014, 11:49:16 AM »
I get the feeling Lloyd still hasn't gotten over Matty Knights telling him he wouldn't be playing as the sole focus full forward any more under Knights at Essendon. He spat it and retired
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Offline Mr Magic

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Re: Give us back the old Jack Riewoldt: Lloyd (Age)
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2014, 12:02:46 PM »
Fair enough, I don't agree but only hindsight holds the answer to who's right.   :thumbsup

Indeed. Good debate.
One thing is for sure we need Jack contributing plenty regardless of where he plays..

Offline Penelope

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Re: Give us back the old Jack Riewoldt: Lloyd (Age)
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2014, 12:31:54 PM »
once again you just highlight that you are not the sharpest tool in the shed.
That is something i have never said. In fact no one has said that he should not or is not spending time forward.

It just seem to sink in that martin is not, nor will he, play predominately accross half back. He is, and will continue to, playing on the ball and resting up forward as well.

But you continue with your line of thinking that he isnt and wont be playing forward at all.

once again you just highlight that you are not the sharpest tool in the shed.
"In fact no one has said that he should not or is not spending time forward." YES THEY HAVE and its not just me.

It just seem to sink in that martin is not, nor will he, play predominately forward. He is, and will continue to, playing back.

But you continue with your tarded line of thinking that he isnt and wont be playing back all the time.

 :lol
When its all you've got, its all you'e got.
You just continue to take your eye of the ball, don't you?

Quote
"In fact no one has said that he should not or is not spending time forward." YES THEY HAVE and its not just me.
:huh3
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 10:40:22 PM by WilliamPowell »
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Offline WA Tiger

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Re: Give us back the old Jack Riewoldt: Lloyd (Age)
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2014, 12:38:11 PM »
once again you just highlight that you are not the sharpest tool in the shed.
That is something i have never said. In fact no one has said that he should not or is not spending time forward.

It just seem to sink in that martin is not, nor will he, play predominately accross half back. He is, and will continue to, playing on the ball and resting up forward as well.

But you continue with your line of thinking that he isnt and wont be playing forward at all.

once again you just highlight that you are not the sharpest tool in the shed.
"In fact no one has said that he should not or is not spending time forward." YES THEY HAVE and its not just me.

It just seem to sink in that martin is not, nor will he, play predominately forward. He is, and will continue to, playing back.

But you continue with your tarded line of thinking that he isnt and wont be playing back all the time.

 :lol
When its all you've got, its all you'e got.
You just continue to take your eye of the ball, don't you?

Quote
"In fact no one has said that he should not or is not spending time forward." YES THEY HAVE and its not just me.
:huh3

We really need to meet to sort our crap out!!!!!
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 10:40:42 PM by WilliamPowell »
DIMMA - You will be held ACCOUNTABLE...

“We are really excited about what we have brought in. We have got great depth of players that can take us where we need to go. We are just putting some cream on the top at the moment,” he said.

"Rucks:
Shaun Hampson is the No.1 man"

Offline Penelope

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Re: Give us back the old Jack Riewoldt: Lloyd (Age)
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2014, 12:49:27 PM »
ooooohhhh, threats.
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

the claw

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Re: Give us back the old Jack Riewoldt: Lloyd (Age)
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2014, 03:11:20 PM »
im not sure lloyd is correct here. and im not so sure jack spent as much time upfield as he would have us all believe. yeah for sure he played a more hit up role last yr but he still spent significant time in the f/50.

imo since 2010 the one area of jacks game that has slipped each yr is contested marks. it is an area of great concern. hes not even giving a contest in the air half the time.
the reasons for this are likely many. injury, delivery sides working him out no support etc. personally i think hes always been vulnerable 1v1 against big f/b what is happeneing now is teams are taking his run away and forcing him to compete 1v1 and hes struggling.
we have all said it why doesnt he jump anymore simply put without help hes not been given the chance to jump.

by far 2010 was jacks best yr. it was easily his most well rounded yr. good tackle count lots of marks both contested and uncontested. he took 79 marks inside 50, that showed he was good on the lead and he was jumping and taking 2 or 3 contested marks each week. if he didnt take a grab he created a contest. he also had a good i/50 count so when he was being beaten deep he got on his bike it was a good yr.

tom hawkins best yr was 2012.
he kicked  62.38. took 144 marks.  84 marks were inside 50 and he took 54 contested marks. interestingly he delivered the ball inside 50 46 times 3 more times than riewoldt has ever done which suggests rightly hawkins gets on his bike  and hits up the ground when need be.

for me jack has things he needs to improve on becomeing well rounded and not so one dimensional is just a few. what really needs to happen more than anything is we find a couple more talls who contribute and compete at all times.
the debate is basically about what role riewoldt should perform. quite simply he should perfrom both the hit up role and play deep when needed. imo jack is struggling in the air to play deep he really needs to get this part of his game on song.

anyway just my opinion on it.