Author Topic: List Management  (Read 27712 times)

Offline MintOnLamb

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List Management
« on: April 25, 2015, 05:38:52 AM »
Until we get a real list manager and recruiters who understand the type of players required to build a successful team, forget it.
The players Melbourne have recruited were all available to us.
We have done exceptionally badly building a qualiry list with depth, Francis Jackson and your recruiting team hang your heads in shame.

Offline Lozza

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Re: List Management
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2015, 09:24:39 AM »
I think when analysing possible recruiting targets we need to focus on their personality traits and whether they will make good leaders, we seem to go for players who you would be happy to introduce to your mum but when it comes to leaders we continually recruit introverts. So many introverts in one team means no one puts their hand up and says lift with me when things get tough. We have a very small handful of what i would call extroverted players namely Rance and Jack but apart from them we have very little and believe that's the source of our problem. Cotch is a good player and will lead by example but he isn't a natural leader and don't believe he ever will be. Until we improve the balance of introverts vs extroverts i think we will always struggle in games such as last night. Last night young Jesse Hogan a 4 gamer was continually yelling at his teammates to cover their opponents or other positional directions, 4 games he has played, made our so called leaders look like meek little boys.

Hellenic Tiger

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Re: List Management
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2015, 09:38:03 AM »
Who cares.

It's 1999 and Giesche may as well be coaching.

Lets draft a Fiora over a Pavlich type and keep the tradition of failure going. ;D

tony_montana

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Re: List Management
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2015, 11:40:01 AM »
I think when analysing possible recruiting targets we need to focus on their personality traits and whether they will make good leaders, we seem to go for players who you would be happy to introduce to your mum but when it comes to leaders we continually recruit introverts. So many introverts in one team means no one puts their hand up and says lift with me when things get tough. We have a very small handful of what i would call extroverted players namely Rance and Jack but apart from them we have very little and believe that's the source of our problem. Cotch is a good player and will lead by example but he isn't a natural leader and don't believe he ever will be. Until we improve the balance of introverts vs extroverts i think we will always struggle in games such as last night. Last night young Jesse Hogan a 4 gamer was continually yelling at his teammates to cover their opponents or other positional directions, 4 games he has played, made our so called leaders look like meek little boys.

Correct me if Im wrong but haven't we supposedly been recruiting young men who will go on to become fine leaders? I could've sworn that every early draft pick chosen is bc we also really rate their leadership potential.
I agree wholeheartedly with what you say btw

No More

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Re: List Management
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2015, 11:48:59 AM »
Chris Newman
Dylan Grimes
Shaun Grigg
Matt Dea
Chris Knights
Jake Batchelor
Rick Petterd
Shaun Hampson
Nathan Gordon
Sam Lloyd
Tyrone Vickery
Reece Conca
Steve Morris
Nathan Foley
Troy Chaplin
Bachar Houli


You wouldn't get any change from $4 million from that lot. That's where the damage is. The money being paid for the return is not their. It just isn't. We accrue average footballers, battlers who try hard and we pay them plenty for the priviledge. A proper administration who knew what they were doing in football terms would never get themselves into this position. $ 4 million per season gets you 4 to 6 "A Grade talents" instead we have people on the verge of retirement, injury prone players and players who are just depth players. There is no professionalism at Richmond. They are just kidding themselves and us. That is all.

Offline Jonesracing82

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Re: List Management
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2015, 12:55:38 PM »
a caller on SEN last night rung in to discuss our draft picks post pick 20 for the past decade...... only 3 of them are any good. not a word of a lie, have a check for yourself. it gets scary when you look further & look at who was overlooked in favour of these players....

Offline Tigeritis™©®

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Re: List Management
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2015, 01:19:03 PM »
a caller on SEN last night rung in to discuss our draft picks post pick 20 for the past decade...... only 3 of them are any good. not a word of a lie, have a check for yourself. it gets scary when you look further & look at who was overlooked in favour of these players....
Was it claw? He's been saying this for years now as have others.

Let's all sing the RFC recruitment song together 1,2,3,4
OOPS! FJ did it again....🎶
The club that keeps giving.

Offline MintOnLamb

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Re: List Management
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2015, 08:41:11 PM »
Watching Matty White running around for Port, gee i wish we still had that speed, another stupid list management decision

Offline Tigeritis™©®

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Re: List Management
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2015, 10:33:54 PM »
How long does it take to build a premiership team?
The club that keeps giving.

No More

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Re: List Management
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2015, 10:36:30 PM »
How long does it take to build a premiership team?

You cant ever win a premiership when you give away $4 or $5 million a year to injury prone, older players or depth players. Look at my previous post. A good management team would never allow that to happen.

Hellenic Tiger

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Re: List Management
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2015, 10:47:31 PM »
How long does it take to build a premiership team?

Apparently is 7-8 years.
So using that blueprint we are two years away.

However we are the RFC. We may be competitive in 2045.
We work on 35 year plans.

Offline big tone

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Re: List Management
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2015, 10:20:40 AM »
I haven't posted for a while, but after Friday nights game I started thinking about our list and our drafting. I wrote a few things down yesterday for a bit of therapy but wasn't going to post it but I would like to hear peoples thoughts on it.

My philosophy on drafting/list management

-never draft a ruckmen with your first or second pick- trade for a proven ruckman and rookie or late draft pick others. Every year a proven ruckman comes up for trade.
All ruckman drafted or traded for should be 200cm plus

-when drafting for a key position player only pick guys that are 190 to 196cm that run and not lope. Guys bigger than this just are not agile enough. They should be almost midfielders that can compete in the air.
Draft only players with a decent frame on them with a competitive instinct. A player that wants to get involved with all parts of the game- not just a bloke who can mark and kick. Perfect example is a Jack Darling type. Or Pav.
No more hybrid types- pick a KPP or pick a ruckman... Simple!

-draft genuine on-ballers, not wingman or flankers. Draft kids that played on-ball before they got drafted, there is usually a reason they played on-ball and not on a wing or a flank. Our list is full of flankers and wingman. Excluding last year our last 4 years of first round picks are all wingers or flankers or hybrid types. (Conca, Ellis, Vlastuin and Lennon) not one of them will ever be a genuine midfielder.
 The only genuine young midfielder on our list that didn't play last night is Corey Ellis. IMO a decent on-ballers should be 185cm plus to complete properly these days (there is some exceptions of course) and need pace. You need players that can hold their body over the ball when like last night it's wet or windy or simply just congested.

-IMO the only time you draft a kid that isn't a KPP or a genuine mid with your first 3 picks is when you draft a small forward. The most important quality for a small forward is genuine speed. The RFC hasn't has a decent small forward for as long as I can remember. They just don't put enough importance on it. If it were up to me I would play 2 of Betts, Ballentine, Walters, even Gartlett types every week. They are more important than ever these days. Our Lloyd, Knights, Gordon, McDonough types just don't have any tricks, goal sense, genuine speed or will to get down and dirty.

Our side should consist of the following IMO
1x genuine ruckman- (Maric)
6x KPP (with at least one that can compete in the ruck) (Jack, Rance, Grimes, ?,?,?) (hoping McKenzie if we can get him fit)
2x genuine small forwards- (Edwards, ?)
13x genuine mids- all rotating through the middle, flanks and off the bench- (Cotch, Lids, Dusty, McIntosh, Corey Ellis, and maybe Vlastuin, ?,?,?,?,?,?,?) (hoping Menadue if we can put some meat on his bones)

So there is a lot of ?,? still in our starting 22 IMO without even thinking about the two's.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 01:07:23 PM by big tone »

Offline YellowandBlackBlood

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Re: List Management
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2015, 12:18:25 PM »
Plonk two electrifying small forwards in our team that also can pressure opposition backs and you transform our team.
At one stage in the game on Friday I looked up at the scoreboard and noticed we had 32 inside 50s to 19 and yet we were behind the demons. We just need to get more reward for effort and a couple of guys that can kick goals and stop easy exit by the opposition.

That would be a good start to our problems......
OER. Calling it as it is since 2004.

Offline Zlatan

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Re: List Management
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2015, 12:45:53 PM »
Plonk two electrifying small forwards in our team that also can pressure opposition backs and you transform our team.
At one stage in the game on Friday I looked up at the scoreboard and noticed we had 32 inside 50s to 19 and yet we were behind the demons. We just need to get more reward for effort and a couple of guys that can kick goals and stop easy exit by the opposition.

That would be a good start to our problems......

Mate we got Grigg and Newman dont stress

Offline MintOnLamb

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Re: List Management
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2015, 05:46:02 PM »
I haven't posted for a while, but after Friday nights game I started thinking about our list and our drafting. I wrote a few things down yesterday for a bit of therapy but wasn't going to post it but I would like to hear peoples thoughts on it.

My philosophy on drafting/list management

-never draft a ruckmen with your first or second pick- trade for a proven ruckman and rookie or late draft pick others. Every year a proven ruckman comes up for trade.
All ruckman drafted or traded for should be 200cm plus

-when drafting for a key position player only pick guys that are 190 to 196cm that run and not lope. Guys bigger than this just are not agile enough. They should be almost midfielders that can compete in the air.
Draft only players with a decent frame on them with a competitive instinct. A player that wants to get involved with all parts of the game- not just a bloke who can mark and kick. Perfect example is a Jack Darling type. Or Pav.
No more hybrid types- pick a KPP or pick a ruckman... Simple!

-draft genuine on-ballers, not wingman or flankers. Draft kids that played on-ball before they got drafted, there is usually a reason they played on-ball and not on a wing or a flank. Our list is full of flankers and wingman. Excluding last year our last 4 years of first round picks are all wingers or flankers or hybrid types. (Conca, Ellis, Vlastuin and Lennon) not one of them will ever be a genuine midfielder.
 The only genuine young midfielder on our list that didn't play last night is Corey Ellis. IMO a decent on-ballers should be 185cm plus to complete properly these days (there is some exceptions of course) and need pace. You need players that can hold their body over the ball when like last night it's wet or windy or simply just congested.

-IMO the only time you draft a kid that isn't a KPP or a genuine mid with your first 3 picks is when you draft a small forward. The most important quality for a small forward is genuine speed. The RFC hasn't has a decent small forward for as long as I can remember. They just don't put enough importance on it. If it were up to me I would play 2 of Betts, Ballentine, Walters, even Gartlett types every week. They are more important than ever these days. Our Lloyd, Knights, Gordon, McDonough types just don't have any tricks, goal sense, genuine speed or will to get down and dirty.

Our side should consist of the following IMO
1x genuine ruckman- (Maric)
6x KPP (with at least one that can compete in the ruck) (Jack, Rance, Grimes, ?,?,?) (hoping McKenzie if we can get him fit)
2x genuine small forwards- (Edwards, ?)
13x genuine mids- all rotating through the middle, flanks and off the bench- (Cotch, Lids, Dusty, McIntosh, Corey Ellis, and maybe Vlastuin, ?,?,?,?,?,?,?) (hoping Menadue if we can put some meat on his bones)

So there is a lot of ?,? still in our starting 22 IMO without even thinking about the two's.
BT, this is exactly the type of discussion, program and plan required at RFC, i love your thinking and know it should be adopted/adapted and run with.
We are bagging our coach but our list manager, list management dept is the one/s who should have the long term strategy in place.
Honestly RFC is ADADS (as dumb as dog poo) if they don't understand the importance of this.
Roos understands it and has picked up fantastic cast offs, imagine Heriter and Garlick running around for us, way better than FJH ( Francis Jacksons Hacks)
Until our magnificent club changes its list management department and philosophy we are DOOMED DOOMED DOOMED, to failure and abject despair.
Have i a right to make these comments, yes i have contributted to RFC for over 30 years including save our skinS and FTF.
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
SACK Jackson and his pansy dept and get some people in there who know what they are doing.
Big Tone, i reckon you me and Claw could to a far better job than the pustules who are running our recruiting dept and have basically brought us to our knees.