Author Topic: Brad Nottens  (Read 20876 times)

Offline Rodgerramjet

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Re: Brad Nottens
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2004, 04:19:22 PM »
Rodger rodger rodger,

you seem to be blaming our current plight on the coaching staff.

got news for you too buddy!! It wouldnt be the fact that perhaps at Richmond we have a number of overated hacks that supporters admire for performing once in a blue moon

hate to be the burden of bad news but the coach isnt the only reason for our lack of success its also the lack of decent talent we have running around on the park every week.





No No No, we are talking about Brad Ottens here not the whole side. Of course we have hacks and they should be off loaded.
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Offline Rodgerramjet

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Re: Brad Nottens
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2004, 05:11:35 PM »
Rodge, then tell me why Ottens had a good year in 2001 under the admittedly incompetant Frawley? Why hadn't Frawley stunted his potential there?

Because things take time. It takes time for things to go up and it takes time for things to deteriorate. What we are seeing now at the club are the ramifications of the coaching methods of the current coaches over the last several years. Coaching methods have a cumulative affect upon players over time, it can be good and it can be bad. I did an analysis (about a year ago) on the effects that a new coach and an old coach can have on a club. I found out that It can take between 18 and 24 months to acertain the true effect that a new coach is having on the club. It can however be shorter but in most cases isn't. This can be a large subject and i've given you a very breif finding under the condition of most ordinary circumstance.

Ottens strikes me as a confidence player, and if he was in a good team he'd probably be a star.

If he was in a good team, he'd have a good coach wouldn't he? and yes he'd be a star
« Last Edit: June 08, 2004, 05:18:30 PM by Rodgerramjet »
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Ox

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Re: Brad Nottens
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2004, 05:49:35 PM »

I agree Rodg.
Fralwy has set this club back 10 years not to mention
the damage he's done to  individuals careers and mindset.
I'm serious when i say we'll need to put the team thru some
psycho counselling to reverse the effects of the nuff nuff potato man.

We are the most un-professional sporting outfit in the World at a
professional level.Our players have to help strap ankles at training.
Sound like Moorabin in the 80s ???? :'( - Wonder why.

My point is that spud the dud has killed us in more than one way.
You could easily say he "incapacitated" Ottens in what should have
been his definitive years  but I guess we'll never really know.
Otto is over the clu and who can blame him.

Under Sheedy or even Wallace Ottens would have been brought up to be  a man
instead regressing into a little boy.

Success starts on the field.

Blame Danny or the appointment of Danny for everything. :'(

Offline Harry

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Re: Brad Nottens
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2004, 05:53:25 PM »
It's a bit of both.

There is no doubt that Frawley and his fellow clowns have stunted the development of Ottens and many others..........no doubt about that.  He would be a better at a better club with a better coach.

However, how much better could he be.

IMO there is no excuse for his lack of aggression at the contest, his lack of enthusiasm when the team is down, and his of assertiveness on the ground.  These are natural characteristics of players - they are either hard or they're not.  There is a limit on how much a better coach can improve this aspect of a player.

I have major concerns over his aggression and his willingness to put his body in and physically hurt the opposition.  He looks scared at times.
Does anyone have half an idea on anything?

Ox

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Re: Brad Nottens
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2004, 05:55:48 PM »
You're right Harry,It is a bit of both.

Offline JohnF

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Re: Brad Nottens
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2004, 06:00:15 PM »
Rodge, then tell me why Ottens had a good year in 2001 under the admittedly incompetant Frawley? Why hadn't Frawley stunted his potential there?

Because things take time. It takes time for things to go up and it takes time for things to deteriorate. What we are seeing now at the club are the ramifications of the coaching methods of the current coaches over the last several years. Coaching methods have a cumulative affect upon players over time, it can be good and it can be bad. I did an analysis (about a year ago) on the effects that a new coach and an old coach can have on a club. I found out that It can take between 18 and 24 months to acertain the true effect that a new coach is having on the club. It can however be shorter but in most cases isn't. This can be a large subject and i've given you a very breif finding under the condition of most ordinary circumstance.

Ottens strikes me as a confidence player, and if he was in a good team he'd probably be a star.

If he was in a good team, he'd have a good coach wouldn't he? and yes he'd be a star

Ok, of course spud has to take the heat, but where do we draw the line? If you use the argument that Frawley is to blame for stunting his growth as a footballer, why can't we use similar arguments for all the duds on our list? I could say well, if it wasn't for Frawley, Bowden would have been a champion! If it wasn't for Frawey, Fiora would have been built like a tank! If it wasn't for Frawley, Pettifer would be the hardest man in the comp! If it wasn't for Frawley, Billy Nicholls would have a six pack!

Yes i'm exaggerating, but the point I'm trying to make is, at what point do you stop blaming others and take responsibility for your own performances? I agree that Frawley is a goose, but there is no way known that the only thing wrong with the club is the coaches. The players are sub-standard as well and we have to realise that.


Ox

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Re: Brad Nottens
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2004, 06:11:48 PM »
LMAOO@Everyone being right.

Offline JohnF

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Re: Brad Nottens
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2004, 06:15:54 PM »
Perhaps you think Ottens has shown enough to suggest that with a good coach he could be something, whereas the others that I mentioned haven't. Ok, well I don't really agree, but if he wants to stay we will definitely resign him, and once spud is gone we shall see what happens to him. Hopefully he does begin to flourish and the damage Frawley has done to him can be reversed...


Offline JohnF

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Re: Brad Nottens
« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2004, 06:19:13 PM »
LMAOO@Everyone being right.

laughingmaoooo!

Except frawley!

Offline Rodgerramjet

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Re: Brad Nottens
« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2004, 06:58:41 PM »
However, how much better could he be.

He could be alot better

IMO there is no excuse for his lack of aggression at the contest, his lack of enthusiasm when the team is down, and his of assertiveness on the ground.

None of us like to see this, but recognise that when you see this in a team or an individual for that matter that it is a symptom of something far deeper.

These are natural characteristics of players - they are either hard or they're not.  There is a limit on how much a better coach can improve this aspect of a player..

This is a false datum that is expoused by a few so call "expert commentators" around the place it is totally untrue.

I have major concerns over his aggression and his willingness to put his body in and physically hurt the opposition.  He looks scared at times.

Maybe he is, but I doubt it. probably more apathetic than anything else.
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froars

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Re: Brad Nottens
« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2004, 07:10:14 PM »
Snottens was on Sen tonight which i just caught the end of - did anyone hear him and can report what he said?? 

Ox

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Re: Brad Nottens
« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2004, 08:28:40 PM »
Dont wory Brad,I believe in you mate.
Just stuff Frawley off and u have reason to live again.

Offline Struggletown

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Re: Brad Nottens
« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2004, 11:48:30 PM »
I dont reckon he's scared,he's completely shot of confidence.
We all saw him in 2001 taking pack buster grabs and kicking 50 odd goals.
He isn't an aggressive player,but he has enough size and talent to be a good player.
When he gets a mental edge and fully motivated, he could be a great player. l hope its with us.
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Offline Puntroadroar

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Re: Brad Nottens
« Reply #43 on: June 09, 2004, 12:25:48 PM »


I think we willl have to agree to disagree Roger

I tend to have the same view as Harry on this one
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Offline Tiger Spirit

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Re: Brad Nottens
« Reply #44 on: June 09, 2004, 01:03:26 PM »
Ottens strikes me as a confidence player, and if he was in a good team he'd probably be a star. But I don't think he is the type of player who burns with desire to turn the tables when things are going bad, as they are at Richmond.  In my opinion, a player's character comes to the fore in troubled times, when everything is shot to schit. We are experiencing those times now, and Ottens hasn't stepped up at all. I don't think he is mentally strong enough to thrive in an environment where he has to make something happen rather than just rely on playing in a good team to kick start everything. He is too lackadaisical and lacks any killer instinct whatsoever.

If we improve as a team, I'm pretty sure we'd start seeing his form improve too. But seeing that we are probably going to be cellar dwellers for the next 3 years, i don't think we will get anything out of him in that time but the same limp wristed tap outs and taking the occasional good grab, as he is doing now.

I understand your line of thinking and agree with your comments to an extent JohnF.  However, in assessing Otto, you’ve probably described many players at AFL Clubs.  So you have to ask why those who are similar to Otto at other Clubs can perform better.  It could well be because they are in a better team or at a better Club.  So it’s not that you can’t do something with such players, but more that we just can’t do anything with them.  Do we then give up on them?  And where’s the certainty that any new player will perform any better or become any different?  History, at our Club, says they won’t.  From that perspective, it’s probably criminal that we have talented players at this Club, because no one will get to see that talent, unless we change our ways.

We can blame recruiting for the fact that we have accumulated players who possess the necessary commitment to play at this level and not necessarily the required ability.  But who do we blame for those who seem to have lots of ability, but a perceived lack of commitment, amongst other things?  As others have pointed out, I agree that any responsibility needs to be equally shared between player and coach.   But I think there’s a lot more to it than just that.

I don’t know if it’s rare, or I just think it’s rare because I’ve been watching Richmond for too long, that you get players with all the necessary attributes to be a good footballer.  And this is where coaching comes into it.

Paul Dimattina was on 3AW last night talking about Peter Rohde and his view was that it was the Coach’s responsibility to communicate, inspire, motivate and develop confidence in his players (nothing new there) and he didn’t believe Rohdes has that ability.

My eternal frustration has been that we can’t be seen to have done any of that for a sustained period of time, regardless of who the coach has been or what players he has had at his disposal.  And as far as confidence goes, our players would be at the bottom of the pile, not too far from where we are on the ladder at the moment.  Building confidence in players is the responsibility of the coaching staff.  How some Clubs manufacture, generate and instill the necessary team spirit, that seems so lacking amongst our playing group, seems a mystery to all at RFC.

Regardless of a player’s character and personality, it is the coaching staff’s role to work with the talent and ability players possess and to get out of them what they are already capable of and more.  Otherwise, they might as well be left to fend for themselves.  It wouldn’t surprise me to know that this is what has been happening at our Club, to a certain extent, and would explain a lot of things.

We can blame the coach and/or players for all of this, but because it has not just been one coach in particular or the same group of players who never seem to reach anything like acceptable standards then you could say that it has to do with the workings of the Club as a whole.  Mind you, we’re not alone in this.

And unless the people that run the place wake up to the fact that we need to put in place a structure, from top to bottom, that supports the playing group and gives them every opportunity to develop then we’re just kidding ourselves if we think we just need to recruit better players or get a better coach in order to improve.

You only have to look at the well run and administered Clubs to see how they get the best out of their players and magically seem to recruit all the good players.  All Clubs have their fair share of talented players, but not all of them seem capable of doing something with it.

The truth is that our set up has been shoddy for a long time.  And it’s definitely not right to blame anyone in particular for the way things are.  However, someone, somewhere along the line, has to start taking responsibility, if we are ever going to get out of this black hole.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2004, 10:18:51 AM by Tiger Spirit »
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