Author Topic: Why we missed out on Treloar & others - Richmond always offer le$$ than market value for new tale  (Read 38285 times)

Offline Tigeritis™©®

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I would've thought that Dan Richardson would be well aware of the player contractual landscape considering his former employment.

This should be a determining factor in respect to player payments and attracting the right players to our club so we can build a premiership list
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tony_montana

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I know we haven't offered Treloar and last year Greenwood as much as Collingwood has for both. We are really strong on our pay structure and don't deviate from it, problem is to bring in big talent you have to pay overs and we simply are unwilling to do that. People may argue that carlisle at 700k a year is overs, but that's what it takes to prize away one of the best young KP talents in the country just entering their prime.
so if you were to list all the occasions where clubs have paid overs for a big name player in recent times and listed their subsequent success (or lack thereof) how does it stack up?

So if you run the stats like you have with buddy and Tippett does that mean, we should not chase top end talent?

Gigantor

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I think Dimma said it himself..the overriding factor is talent

Offline Penelope

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I know we haven't offered Treloar and last year Greenwood as much as Collingwood has for both. We are really strong on our pay structure and don't deviate from it, problem is to bring in big talent you have to pay overs and we simply are unwilling to do that. People may argue that carlisle at 700k a year is overs, but that's what it takes to prize away one of the best young KP talents in the country just entering their prime.
so if you were to list all the occasions where clubs have paid overs for a big name player in recent times and listed their subsequent success (or lack thereof) how does it stack up?

So if you run the stats like you have with buddy and Tippett does that mean, we should not chase top end talent?

Not so much dont chase it, just dont crazy overboard to get it. This, naturally, means that it aint going to happen very often, though

A couple of things that stick in mind that I have heard mentioned from within the club.

That looking at overseas sporting comps, bringing in high profile players under free agency ultimately leads to loosing a number of lesser players. I don't think this is limited to free agency though.
The salary cap makes this just about a monty to happen.

That their recruiting policy was to draft for the top liners and trade for need. considering the first statement, this makes sense to me, but it pretty much means that most of your trades are not going to be at the top end of talent.

If you can get a top liner at the right price, then fine, but I'm not convinced chasing one at any cost just for the sake of it is the way to go.

If you look at whorethornes recruiting over the last few years, they certainly have not gone down this path. they paid quite a bit for Frawley (who i reckon has been largely underwhelming) but this of course was faciltaed by the loss of Franklin.

Astute, is the word i would use for their recruiting
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Offline Stalin

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Astute like garlett sitting next to Budda in his cell?
Then he grabbed two chopsticks and stuck them in his mouth , pretending to be a walrus

Offline Penelope

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oh yeah, thats right, my bad. their recruiting has been crap, which is why they dont achieve anything  :whistle

Is that seriously how you draw your conclusions on things? Ignore the overall picture and just draw on one example?
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Online Francois Jackson

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al i dont think anyone compares to the hawks. Their recruiting and  development (Box Hill)is second to none and unless we fix that part of our club, failure will follow us into next year.

WP thinks wins dont matter in the reserves and i call BS on that. It creates a competition for spots and when they are losing its hard to replace a winning formula (seniors) even though we know some players dont deserve to be there.







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Offline Penelope

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which is why you use them as an example of what works.

as for winning games in the VFL.

It should not be the priority per say, the priority should be to develop your players.

The thing is though, that if you do this correctly, with the correct structures and personnel in place, the good football and therefore the wins, will naturally come.
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Online Francois Jackson

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yes exactly what works is a successfull vfl side, on and off the field. I have heard clarkson mention many times that there are plenty in our vfl side who can do the job if they lose a few. Their quality of depth is incredible when you think about it. Mcevoy was playing in their vfl side FFS and our man dan think we are locked and loaded with hammer for next year as our back up.

I hope they make a move on choco to run that vfl side or lure a ratten away from hawks. You want to match it with the best then start poaching their off field talent.





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Online camboon

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If you want to win in the VFL , just recruit 28 to 35 year olds that have been delisted, works for North in the AFL.
All jokes aside we need some experienced Ex AFL players to mentor the kids we bring in but  the development of the kids is where its important for Richmond. We had a couple step up for us this year which was pleasing.

Online WilliamPowell

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WP thinks wins dont matter in the reserves and i call BS on that. It creates a competition for spots and when they are losing its hard to replace a winning formula (seniors) even though we know some players dont deserve to be there.

Please if you are going to quote what I think then it least get it right. I'd appreciate it.

What I have said many times is the CLUB doesn't/hasn't put the emphasis on winning at VFL level, its number one priority has/ is development.

I have said many times I DON'T agree with that line of thinking but that is their mindset.

Sadly, I can't see it changing. The way the put together their VFL list proves it, every year they bring in blokes not up to VFL standard. Why? Because the wins aren't as important to the CLUB as developing their AFL listed kids.

Can I make it any clearer?

So please don't suggest or imply that I think wins aren't important, I do but the club doesn't. Massive difference
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Offline Penelope

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Are you say that they knowingly bring in blokes that are not VFL standard?
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Online Francois Jackson

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Well il take your word for it, maybe i was wrong but let me check over the 55 pages

Development and losing go hand in hand for our vfl side. I mean not even the bean can crack it into our star studded senior side. Why is that?
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Dougeytherichmondfan

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Interesting when you compare the dogs VFL side, which won the flag in '14 and how they went at senior level this year, with our own VFL side and how average they've been (bean!).

Online WilliamPowell

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Well il take your word for it, maybe i was wrong but let me check over the 55 pages

Development and losing go hand in hand for our vfl side. I mean not even the bean can crack it into our star studded senior side. Why is that?

Agree that part of development involves winning. But in the VFL and I've said many times if you don't have decent VFL players as your back up you going struggle. That's the one thing our VFL side has proven in its existence. Our VFL top up players are poor so they offer very little support to side in general

I actually replied to you a couple of weeks back that when it was announced Clarke was leaving that I'd love to see Choco coach our VFL side because we know that while his great strength is development of kids he wouldn't compromise winning and that's what I reckon our development program and by extension our VFL program needs

Are you say that they knowingly bring in blokes that are not VFL standard?

What I am saying is if you look at all other stand alone VFL sides in the VFL eg Collingwood, Bulldogs (in particular) etc that have at least 2-3 recently retired AFL players on their VFL list. We have a grand total of Zero.

These other clubs have target experience to assist with the development side of things we bring in blokes from local leagues. If we are lucky we may have 2-4 blokes with VFL experience. That's what I mean by blokes that are not up to VFL standard. We have guys on our VFL list that would not get games at stand alone VFL sides like Coburg, hence why they aren't on a VFL list

Personally and this is my opinion our club has a VFL budget and it is at the lower scale compared to what other AFL clubs fielding VFL sides spend and that's our problem IMESHO
"Oh yes I am a dreamer, I still see us flying high!"

from the song "Don't Walk Away" by Pat Benatar 1988 (Wide Awake In Dreamland)