Author Topic: Who's closer to a flag: Brad Scott or Damien Hardwick? ....... (afl site)  (Read 6318 times)

Offline one-eyed

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Who's closer to a flag: Brad Scott or Damien Hardwick?

Nick Bowen and Peter Ryan 
AFL.com.au
January 9, 2016



Brad Scott


The argument that Hardwick's Richmond is better positioned than Scott's North Melbourne seems to go essentially like this: the Tigers have more A-graders – Trent Cotchin, Brett Deledio, Dustin Martin, Jack Riewoldt and Alex Rance – who have more time on their side to deliver a premiership than a Roos team that desperately needs to make flags while star veterans Brent Harvey, Drew Petrie, Jarrad Waite, Nick Dal Santo and Daniel Wells still shine.

This line of thinking undersells North as a bunch of blue-collar overachievers and oversells the Tigers as a glamour team on the rise.

It also ignores the teams' recent finals records.

Under Scott, North has won four of seven finals and made two consecutive preliminary finals, while Richmond has not won a final in six seasons under Hardwick, bowing out in an elimination final the past three seasons.

Finals scoreboard, Scott and his Roos.

Let's not forget either that Richmond's most recent elimination final defeat came at the hands of North.

The Roos' 17-point win continued their recent domination of the Tigers – Scott has a 7-2 record against Hardwick, with the second of those losses coming in round 23 last season when North rested nine players ahead of the finals – but it also underlined North's greater depth.

With its skipper Trent Cotchin well held by Ben Jacobs, Richmond struggled to win the ball at stoppages, losing the contested ball count 148-115.

The Tigers picked up inside midfielders Jacob Townsend (Greater Western Sydney) and Andrew Moore (Port Adelaide) in October's player exchange period.

But they still don't have the clearance-winning depth of a Roos' outfit led by Ben Cunnington, Andrew Swallow and Jack Ziebell … oh, and spoon fed by reigning All Australian ruckman Todd Goldstein.

I don't subscribe to the view that the bottom will fall out of North when Harvey, Petrie and co. retire, either.

In Goldstein, Cunnington, Ziebell, Shaun Atley, Lachy Hansen, Robbie Tarrant, Sam Wright and Jamie Macmillan, the Roos have a solid core of experience around which they can quickly regenerate.

Many outside Arden Street might think North has gone as far as it can the past two seasons, but Scott and the Roos are quietly confident they are not done yet.

Whether their journey ends in the club's fifth premiership remains to be seen, but they're better placed to win a flag than Hardwick and his Tigers. - Nick Bowen



Damien Hardwick

Three consecutive elimination finals losses hurt a club at every level, and the most recent loss to North Melbourne pushed Richmond to another fork in the road.

This is inevitable when a club embarks on the slow and steady rebuild the Tigers did in 2010 under coach Damien Hardwick and CEO Brendon Gale.

What puts a team back in contention is what happens next.

That's where Richmond is better placed than North Melbourne, who has, to its credit, performed brilliantly when it mattered for two seasons in succession.

But are the Kangaroos any more likely to finish top four than the Tigers, and launch a real tilt at the flag?

I don't think so.

The Tigers finished fifth and including their disastrous elimination final, have won 24 out of their past 33 games beating Hawthorn, Fremantle in Perth and the Sydney Swans in Sydney in that time.

They conceded the fifth fewest points in 2015 and had a percentage of 123.09 at season's end, the fourth best in the competition and well ahead of North Melbourne (106.45), so they had every right to hold their nerve and stick to the business of building for success.

In the off-season they added Chris Yarran and Jacob Townsend to the list and plucked Daniel Rioli in the NAB AFL Draft.

An elite midfielder such as Adam Treloar, who they coveted but couldn't convince to become a Tiger, would have been handy but they did not drop their eyes and take an inadequate replacement.

Such an approach was admirable but left many other questions to be answered with actions.

Can the skipper Trent Cotchin become great or is he just OK?

Will Ty Vickery's improvement continue at the same rate?

Can Dustin Martin accept responsibility to realise his talent?

Can they find and develop the depth in their ranks to have 30 players good enough to fill a role when required?

Do the leaders know what needs to be done when the game demands they do something?

Is their ruck set-up good enough?

These are the questions all premiership teams find themselves facing at one stage or another. Those who succeed answer them positively.

Richmond has already found some answers: Jack Riewoldt and Alex Rance are super players at either end of the ground and reliable in big games.

Richmond has also got their first draft selections right in recent seasons too, with

Brandon Ellis, Nick Vlaustin, Reece Conca, Ben Lennon and Corey Ellis having shown to varying degrees their capability at AFL level and Anthony Miles exceptional last season.

They have made many good decisions, but the pressure is building.

Losing three finals in a row attaches a monkey to a club's back.

But Richmond has more than faith. The pillars of success are in place.

It is united and has people who believe in each other overseeing a list that is only now about to enter its prime after three consecutive finals appearances.

That's experience money cannot buy.

The Tigers' list profile is right. They have a few years yet to prove this crop is good enough. - Peter Ryan

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-01-09/whos-closer-to-a-flag-brad-scott-or-damien-hardwick

Offline (•))(©™

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New Zealand.
Caracella and Balmey.

Offline Andyy

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Scott

duh

at least they win finals

Offline Gracie

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Scott

duh

at least they win finals

But they don't win the ones that matter. Losing two pre lims in a row has to be their "monkey".


Offline yandb

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Gracie we don't win any so North's four out of seven trumps our none from three.

tony_montana

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Scott

duh

at least they win finals

But they don't win the ones that matter. Losing two pre lims in a row has to be their "monkey".

Not really, getting so close twice, if anything, would motivate a club to take the extra step bc you know you're in the mix

Offline tdy

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Quote
Richmond has also got their first draft selections right in recent seasons too, with

Brandon Ellis, Nick Vlaustin, Reece Conca, Ben Lennon and Corey Ellis having shown to varying degrees their capability at AFL level and Anthony Miles exceptional last season.

Thats not a great list,  Ben Lennon and Corey Ellis are too young to say much other than they show potential but the other 3 are only AFL standard or a bit above it, Vlastuins the pick of the crop and he isn't Chris Judd super duper (yet).

Myles was a rookie pickup so thats a bit lucky like Foley and King were in their day. 

Offline Gracie

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Gracie we don't win any so North's four out of seven trumps our none from three.

Winning premierships is the only target of all clubs.

Right now no matter how many finals North have won both Hardwick and Scott have a duck egg in the winning premierships column.


Offline Chuck17

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A big fat nil all

Offline 🏅Dooks

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Offline yandb

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Re: Who's closer to a flag: Brad Scott or Damien Hardwick? ....... (afl site)
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2016, 12:36:03 AM »
So you prefer our none from three to Norths Four from seven?

Offline 🏅Dooks

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Re: Who's closer to a flag: Brad Scott or Damien Hardwick? ....... (afl site)
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2016, 12:47:31 AM »
So you prefer our none from three to Norths Four from seven?

I don't care about other teams records I want a flag
"Sliding doors moment.
If Damian Barrett had a brain
Then its made of sh#t" Dont Argue - 2/8/2018

Online Hard Roar Tiger

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Re: Who's closer to a flag: Brad Scott or Damien Hardwick? ....... (afl site)
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2016, 05:54:53 AM »
Dimma may be a liar, a pig, an idiot, a communist, but he is *not* a porn star!
“I find it nearly impossible to make those judgments, but he is certainly up there with the really important ones, he is certainly up there with the Francis Bourkes and the Royce Harts and the Kevin Bartlett and the Kevin Sheedys, there is no doubt about that,” Balme said.

Offline Gracie

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Re: Who's closer to a flag: Brad Scott or Damien Hardwick? ....... (afl site)
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2016, 10:58:39 AM »
So you prefer our none from three to Norths Four from seven?

Don't like losing at the best of times and last year's finals loss hurt. But I would still be feeling the same way if Richmond had Norths record of 4 from seven finals wins and mightly peeed that we had lost the last two preliminary finals and with a side where the main players are aged over 30.

Right now I would rather be in our position with a list of players with the majority with 5/6 years left in them and a bunch of players taken in the last couple of years to come through and improve the side.

To be a regular top 4 side you need a hard edge built on experience. Need to be ruthless.

We are close just need to take the step to hard edged ruthlessness. Looking forward to what we can produce over the next few years.

Offline Stalin

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I like Scott
Then he grabbed two chopsticks and stuck them in his mouth , pretending to be a walrus