Author Topic: Philosophical question:- Why are we perpetually poo?  (Read 13575 times)

Online Hard Roar Tiger

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Philosophical question:- Why are we perpetually poo?
« on: September 23, 2016, 06:14:41 PM »
Kinda speaks for itself, bit like the meaning of life - everyone has a theory but no one really nails it.
Here's your chance so arise One Eyerites - once and for all answer the most difficult question in history - why are we so poo?
“I find it nearly impossible to make those judgments, but he is certainly up there with the really important ones, he is certainly up there with the Francis Bourkes and the Royce Harts and the Kevin Bartlett and the Kevin Sheedys, there is no doubt about that,” Balme said.

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Re: Philosophical question:- Why are we perpetually poo?
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2016, 06:21:14 PM »
Simple answer.

Culture.

Caracella and Balmey.

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Re: Philosophical question:- Why are we perpetually poo?
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2016, 06:21:32 PM »
Starts at board level
Caracella and Balmey.

Offline Go Richo 12

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Re: Philosophical question:- Why are we perpetually poo?
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2016, 07:01:26 PM »

Offline Go Richo 12

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Re: Philosophical question:- Why are we perpetually poo?
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2016, 07:04:45 PM »
Starts at board level
And this too but not for reasons Ox is thinking. I think it comes from years of sacking coaches, blaming them for our problems, whilst all the while ignoring that players may be to blame. The recruiting war with Collingwood hurt.

Poor facilities for so long and poo development as a result is another reason.

Offline georgies31

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Re: Philosophical question:- Why are we perpetually poo?
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2016, 07:11:11 PM »
Agree starts from the top down simple and we dont make hard decisions when it needs to be made like Dimma this year etc, and when we recruit staff at the club any position  we go for staff not from a successful background.

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Re: Philosophical question:- Why are we perpetually poo?
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2016, 07:27:50 PM »
Agree starts from the top down simple and we dont make hard decisions when it needs to be made like Dimma this year etc, and when we recruit staff at the club any position  we go for staff not from a successful background.

  :clapping
Caracella and Balmey.

Offline TigerMonk

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Re: Philosophical question:- Why are we perpetually poo?
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2016, 07:32:20 PM »
Why ? l will tell ya why.

When there are splits in the playing group & coaching staff. Drags everyone down. Players disgruntled goes through the whole club. Players not working hard enough in the off season or during the premiership season. Those that do stand out like Dustin Martin & Alex Rance who are well rewarded. Then you have those players who put themselves first before the club & the playing group. This puts a hold on blooding careers which causes small groups instead of a team. This also happens with the coaching staff. The club does not work well together & no-one is going anywhere while other clubs progress. Then when they get out on the field,  They play like the individuals they are & it clearly shows when they refuse to hit up the best option. The only way this club is going to move forward is to work hard as a club in whole from VFL to AFL. If they don't have that from the start of the pre-season they may as well stay home & play with their dicks

Offline tdy

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Re: Philosophical question:- Why are we perpetually poo?
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2016, 09:19:36 PM »
There are too many people from the Eat em alive graham Richmond days still floating around who will knife in an instant and snipe from the back.  To lead this club someone with a big personality has to put a lid on disent like Imran Khan did over the Pakistani cricket team. They have to be home grown in some way to get the kudos amongst the feral tribes, they have to have vision and they have to be able to pick talent on and off field.  That's a huge ask for Geez let alone a mere mortal like Benny Gale or the many who have passed before.

If we had got Kevin Sheedy 15 years ago we'd have been alright or Mick Malthouse, both big strong personalities and ex tigers.  But we got Frawley and Wallace and now Hardwick and I barely remember any CEO's except Clinton Casey and Neville Crowe.  Think of it this way if we'd got Leigh Matthews instead of Brisbane we would have knifed him somehow before we became successful.


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Re: Philosophical question:- Why are we perpetually poo?
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2016, 09:29:07 PM »
Only since dimma was appointed have we had a fully staffed Footy department, so the previous 25odd years of pooefulness is not a surprise. Now we have to go through the process of finding the right staff for the roles we've finally filled. It will take time, hopefully the process will speed up with balme now given he has a lot of experience and has seen and breathed what a successful footy department setup looks like.

We have finally evolved from a clueless supporter base who always felt it was the coach in isolation or the players when in actual fact its so much more than that.

Offline tdy

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Re: Philosophical question:- Why are we perpetually poo?
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2016, 09:40:14 PM »
Only since dimma was appointed have we had a fully staffed Footy department, so the previous 25odd years of pooefulness is not a surprise. Now we have to go through the process of finding the right staff for the roles we've finally filled. It will take time, hopefully the process will speed up with balme now given he has a lot of experience and has seen and breathed what a successful footy department setup looks like.

We have finally evolved from a clueless supporter base who always felt it was the coach in isolation or the players when in actual fact its so much more than that.

Yeah but we did alright under Northey and then boom he's gone.  North barely had a footy dept under Pagan yet they did great.  Walls spent years putting Brisbane together on a shoe string before Leigh put them into premiership mode.  Sure resources are a valid excuse but we have always fallen down when we are doing well.  I think we need a talented big personality with really thick skin who can say "Wayne Campbell your our best midfielder and captain but your a cancer and we're gonna trade you for 2 first round draft picks" and then go and use them well by saying Francis Jackson your a hack I'm signing up someone else to be chief recruiter.  Someone who can keep a lid on dissent, pick other talented people and drop bad people.


Online Chuck17

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Re: Philosophical question:- Why are we perpetually poo?
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2016, 09:51:18 PM »
Poo deserves poo

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: Philosophical question:- Why are we perpetually poo?
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2016, 10:20:17 PM »
Think one of our biggest issues is we haven't moved with the times.

For so long we thought what worked off field in the 1970's would work in the years that followed. Which meant we didn't actually work hard to try and get better, think we just thought it would happen. It didn't

Finally we realised things don't just happen and we were so far behind we were constantly playing catch up. The fact that we spent so long trying to recover financially didnt help either

I think finally with the Balme appointment we've got the key footy dept leader right. A step forward but so much depends on what happens during the upcoming trade and draft period

Culture is another area. We talk about trying to develop a culture but we lived in the past for so long that I don't think we have a clue what we want our culture to be. We chop we change, rather saying these our core values and not deviating from them. We seem to look at everyone else and try to be like everyone else.

Have called us a dishonest footy club a few times over the last few years. And without rehashing things I've said the tail (players) have wagged the dog on a number of things. It happened again this year.

 And I  think this is where the board has failed the most. They've allowed this to happen. That's poor leadership,  actually it is weak leadership and like it or not it filters through the entire club and thats what happened with us. There has been a massive disconnect between the members and the club this year and it needs to be rectified.

One of my hopes for 2017 after this season from hell is the club makes an effort to give the club back to the members and supporters. By that I mean having our players understand that the family day for example isnt a burden but chance to repay the members who stick by this club. And that perhaps they should make themselves more accessible rather only doing the minimum they are required to do under the CBA.
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Offline mightytiges

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Re: Philosophical question:- Why are we perpetually poo?
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2016, 10:38:29 PM »
Simple answer.

Culture.
This!

It seems the Club has only been able to deal with situations in a binary way. It's either all good, so don't change anything in a major way (top up instead) OR it's all bad, so rip the joint apart. There's no in between. There's no continual focus to uphold elite standards to prevent these extremes.

The past 5 seasons are a perfect example. Many of the issues that were totally exposed this year, were evident in the preceding seasons. However, because we said we were either an up and coming side (2012) or later on winning and making finals (2013-15), these issues were seen as minor and something that could be dismissed as they would eventually fix themselves the following year with an experienced top up or few  :P.

The mental frailties in this current team were first displayed in 2012 with the chokes such as against the Suns ("worst 40 secs of football ever") and then against Carlton in all three 2013 meetings. Nothing was changed!

The issue of the team playing sub-standard footy were there in the first half of 2014 but the subsequent 9 wins in a row meant a full on review (such as is occurring now) wasn't needed according to the Club. It was there again regularly right through last year despite 15 H/A wins. In fact, most of those wins contained at least one quarter that was diabolical and more something a bottom 4 side would dish up. It reared its head again in the North EF loss (3rd qtr) which cost us the game in the end and showed something was badly wrong. Again, nothing was extensively reviewed or significantly changed, aside from a futile pipedream chase after Treloar, more fringe top-ups (repeating past mistakes), and giving up two second round picks for a type of player we weren't desperately in need of at the expense of another ruckman (Club said we didn't need one :facepalm ) and quality midfield ballwinner we did desperately need. We also re-signed the senior coach to cement "stability" in another example of everything is fine and will be okay next year, so don't change anything attitude.

Such a "don't change" attitude was even reflected in the membership base when they apathetically did what the Club told them to and allowed our members' democratic rights to be stripped back with the constitutional change allowing unelected appointed directors.

Of course, now we've had a crap year onfield, we've flipped 180 degrees and all and sundry say we need to change anything and everything within and without including some saying we need to offload our best 5 players and start all over again. We've had another farcical board challenge. Members/supporters are complaining about appointed directors being jobs for the boys/girls on the existing Board. We've sacked virtually every assistant coach but senior coach Hardwick stays (because we can't afford to sack him thanks to the Club re-signing him only six months earlier). The list is expected to be turned over again in the major way for the first time in 6-7 years. The question that sticks out is - Why only now make major changes? Why not after 2013, 14 and 15 when we were also shown up for being far far short of the mark?

The dumb and ordinary decisions on and off field have existed for a long time irrespective of those in charge and irrespective of the season we are having on-field. Elite clubs set their own standards and continually try to raise them by critiquing and pushing themselves further even when winning. However, our culture is to only act when the proverbial hits the fan on-field and then set fire to the place off-field. A sign of a lazy, fragile club with a poor culture. That weak culture off-field has reflected itself on-field for the past 30-something years  :(
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Offline MintOnLamb

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Re: Philosophical question:- Why are we perpetually poo?
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2016, 10:49:48 PM »
Interesting topic, I have often thought it is all my fault... But there are problems at RFC which are not displayed at other clubs, player draft selections, player team selections, coach choices, I wonder are there a common group of people who have been controlling the club behind the scenes for the last 30 odd years making bad decisions and coercing bad decisions from those in supposed power?
I came to melb in 1985 and was convinced to barrack for RFC... I am a richmond tragic as is my 30 year old son, we have had a life of RFC pain... can't wait until we come good?