Author Topic: Club Reports a $80,257 Loss for 2016  (Read 17450 times)

Offline tdy

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Re: Club Reports a $80,257 Loss for 2016
« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2016, 12:09:10 AM »
I remember years ago Leon Daphne made a million dollar contribution to give us a profit. Makes you wonder how much the board gave this time.

Also Essendrug made a loss of 8 mill on 50 mill turnover this year.  So relative to them we did well.

Online WilliamPowell

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Re: Club Reports a $80,257 Loss for 2016
« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2016, 06:55:04 AM »
Also Essendrug made a loss of 8 mill on 50 mill turnover this year.  So relative to them we did well.

Sorry but that is a really foolish comparison

Essendon have had expenses that we haven't, to suggest otherwise is ridiculos

* Legal fees for their pointless court cases against ASADA / WADA
* Player compo payouts
* extra salary cap to play the top ups
* interest bill their borrowings for the facility out Essendon fields

We don't have or didn't have any of those so our result would be (rightly) no way like theirs

l don't believe those figures at all.  :lol

I don't either 😉

Of course you wouldn't you were the prophet of doom, number wise

I am expecting the stock standard comments about the FTF, JDF propping up the result (once the accounts are released)

Let's see the breakdown of the numbers and then comment
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Offline big tone

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Re: Club Reports a $80,257 Loss for 2016
« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2016, 07:45:01 AM »
All fluff aside, how does a club of our size, after making finals 3 years in a row and having 70000 members make a loss!
That is unexceptable whichever way you try and defend it.
And to be honest I don't believe it's only $80k either.
Creative accounting to appease the riff raff... us.

2017 will be even worse with a lot of members like myself not renewing. I have had enough of the club being incompetent and the blind faith has worn thin for me.
I personally don't care who is president or who is on the board but I do expect us to make money and I do expect us to improve our onfeild proformances from the last 30 odd years.
2016 has been a disgrace and IMO the club hasn't made enough changes to remedy the situation. Getting rid of assistant coaches and bring in Balme and basically making minimal changes to our list isn't going to get the job done.
Just my opinion but it's the same as lot of Tiger supporters I know.

I must admit I'm really peeed off at our current club and the way it's taken away my passion for supporting it. I've never in all my years been so  disillusioned with the RFC.

Offline 🏅Dooks

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Re: Club Reports a $80,257 Loss for 2016
« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2016, 08:29:30 AM »
All fluff aside, how does a club of our size, after making finals 3 years in a row and having 70000 members make a loss!
That is unexceptable whichever way you try and defend it.
And to be honest I don't believe it's only $80k either.
Creative accounting to appease the riff raff... us.

2017 will be even worse with a lot of members like myself not renewing. I have had enough of the club being incompetent and the blind faith has worn thin for me.
I personally don't care who is president or who is on the board but I do expect us to make money and I do expect us to improve our onfeild proformances from the last 30 odd years.
2016 has been a disgrace and IMO the club hasn't made enough changes to remedy the situation. Getting rid of assistant coaches and bring in Balme and basically making minimal changes to our list isn't going to get the job done.
Just my opinion but it's the same as lot of Tiger supporters I know.

I must admit I'm really peeed off at our current club and the way it's taken away my passion for supporting it. I've never in all my years been so  disillusioned with the RFC.

Excellent post Tone
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Then its made of sh#t" Dont Argue - 2/8/2018

Offline Gracie

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Re: Club Reports a $80,257 Loss for 2016
« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2016, 09:56:45 AM »
The operating profit was actually $1.2m

The loss comes about after claiming Amortisation and Depreciation. Businesses of all sizes make these claims as legitimate tax deductions. Same as claiming laundry expenses on your tax or depreciation on your car for using it for work related matters.

Given we have up graded the buildings at Punt Road and the ground work there would be plenty of areas to claim big time on depreciation. Haven't seen the actual financial statements but suspect these areas contributed to the result.

One smallish loss after 11 years of profit does not trigger bankruptcy.

Offline YellowandBlackBlood

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Re: Club Reports a $80,257 Loss for 2016
« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2016, 10:06:08 AM »
The operating profit was actually $1.2m

The loss comes about after claiming Amortisation and Depreciation. Businesses of all sizes make these claims as legitimate tax deductions. Same as claiming laundry expenses on your tax or depreciation on your car for using it for work related matters.

Given we have up graded the buildings at Punt Road and the ground work there would be plenty of areas to claim big time on depreciation. Haven't seen the actual financial statements but suspect these areas contributed to the result.

One smallish loss after 11 years of profit does not trigger bankruptcy.
It shows that one should look at all the figures before one flies off the handle.
OER. Calling it as it is since 2004.

Offline RedanTiger

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Re: Club Reports a $80,257 Loss for 2016
« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2016, 11:09:41 AM »
2017 will be even worse with a lot of members like myself not renewing. I have had enough of the club being incompetent and the blind faith has worn thin for me.
I personally don't care who is president or who is on the board but I do expect us to make money and I do expect us to improve our onfeild proformances from the last 30 odd years.
2016 has been a disgrace and IMO the club hasn't made enough changes to remedy the situation. Getting rid of assistant coaches and bring in Balme and basically making minimal changes to our list isn't going to get the job done.

I must admit I'm really peeed off at our current club and the way it's taken away my passion for supporting it. I've never in all my years been so  disillusioned with the RFC.

Okay.
I really hear you and understand where you're at.
This gives me a chance to say some things which I've thought about over the last day or so.
One of my last posts was a bit overwrought but describes a similar spot to where you are at.

I believe this is one of the last chances for us members to turn things around and avoid becoming a middling club forever.
I have posted (a lot) about the various moves the board has made.
Most of these moves however really come back to how the board shapes it's "ethics".
Despite what I've posted, there is nothing inherently wrong with the Nominations Committee, Election By-Laws or constitutional amendments.
It's simply how they're used in practice to IMO subvert the members will or even allow members to participate fully.

This year we have the chance through strong board candidates to make the first move.
If Casey and Wallace remove Ryan and Dunne, I think it will send a strong message to reform the way the club operates.
With only two positions each year it may need another election or more to FORCE change.
If they do not succeed then I think we are in for more of the same, despite director limits.

The club has made moves to subtly change the footy department.
- Bringing in Balme is a good move.
- Shifting Richardson sideways can be a good move.
- Coaching changes at least show an awareness of a problem
- List Management remains a worry with lack of key players and a seeming lack of an overall list plan.
- The slight changes in Recruiting are underwhelming.
- Medical and Fitness seem to have not been improved at all.

Next season will show whether these changes are enough to shift direction or, as I suspect, fail to be enough.
Just as an aside on List Management I think we missed a huge chance to fundamentally alter our thinking.
IMO, we should have delisted Maric, Batchelor, Lambert and Butler allowing us to improve our list short-term by bringing in Barlow and Richards. A missed opportunity.

With the coaching and List changes I would like to see more empowered players, excited to be involved at the highest level, aware of the huge chance to set themselves up for life and appreciative of the benefits they have now and into the future. A big part of this will be the senior players driving this attitudinal re-set.

I would like to see us take big, strong, athletic, key players in the draft with an even greater chance to do this next year.

We will have to wait and see how the changes this year will affect next year and beyond.

If these benefits do not come with our present staff they can be moved on next year after an intensive search for alternatives.

But we have the chance this year to START the process.
Don't give up now.
Buy a membership next year and push for improvement.

If it's just more of the same then I'll be with you.
Out the door and never looking back.

Sorry about the length but I am feeling the need to vent. Probably like a lot of us.     

Offline Yeahright

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Re: Club Reports a $80,257 Loss for 2016
« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2016, 11:48:16 AM »

Sorry about the length but I am feeling the need to vent. Probably like a lot of us.   

We appreciate the grammar. Rant away!

Edit: Just saw your sook at my other two replies (one not even been directed at you ::)) so I should make it clear, this post is genuine

Online WilliamPowell

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Re: Club Reports a $80,257 Loss for 2016
« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2016, 12:11:19 PM »
The operating profit was actually $1.2m

The loss comes about after claiming Amortisation and Depreciation. Businesses of all sizes make these claims as legitimate tax deductions. Same as claiming laundry expenses on your tax or depreciation on your car for using it for work related matters.

Given we have up graded the buildings at Punt Road and the ground work there would be plenty of areas to claim big time on depreciation. Haven't seen the actual financial statements but suspect these areas contributed to the result.

One smallish loss after 11 years of profit does not trigger bankruptcy.

You are correct but and it's an important but

Every year there is depreciation and amortisation costs, that is not in dispute

However, when the club makes a profit; let's call it bottom line profit to keep it simplistic. It has never said we've made an operating Profit of say $3mil but after deprecation & amortisation the "bottom line" profit is $800k... it is simply announced we made a $800k profit

This year for whatever reason they have decided to make the distinction which is IMV a poor way to do it because it has created unnecessary & extra noise around the number

What they should have said again IMO is "we've made a loss of $80k which includes extra amortisation costs for the new Fitness business venture at Cardinnia Shire. Doesn't try and distort the numbers just highlights and explains an increase in expenditure due to business changes

 
"Oh yes I am a dreamer, I still see us flying high!"

from the song "Don't Walk Away" by Pat Benatar 1988 (Wide Awake In Dreamland)

Online WilliamPowell

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Re: Club Reports a $80,257 Loss for 2016
« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2016, 12:13:26 PM »
Okay.
I really hear you and understand where you're at.
This gives me a chance to say some things which I've thought about over the last day or so.
One of my last posts was a bit overwrought but describes a similar spot to where you are at.

I believe this is one of the last chances for us members to turn things around and avoid becoming a middling club forever.
I have posted (a lot) about the various moves the board has made.
Most of these moves however really come back to how the board shapes it's "ethics".
Despite what I've posted, there is nothing inherently wrong with the Nominations Committee, Election By-Laws or constitutional amendments.
It's simply how they're used in practice to IMO subvert the members will or even allow members to participate fully.

This year we have the chance through strong board candidates to make the first move.
If Casey and Wallace remove Ryan and Dunne, I think it will send a strong message to reform the way the club operates.
With only two positions each year it may need another election or more to FORCE change.
If they do not succeed then I think we are in for more of the same, despite director limits.

The club has made moves to subtly change the footy department.
- Bringing in Balme is a good move.
- Shifting Richardson sideways can be a good move.
- Coaching changes at least show an awareness of a problem
- List Management remains a worry with lack of key players and a seeming lack of an overall list plan.
- The slight changes in Recruiting are underwhelming.
- Medical and Fitness seem to have not been improved at all.

Next season will show whether these changes are enough to shift direction or, as I suspect, fail to be enough.
Just as an aside on List Management I think we missed a huge chance to fundamentally alter our thinking.
IMO, we should have delisted Maric, Batchelor, Lambert and Butler allowing us to improve our list short-term by bringing in Barlow and Richards. A missed opportunity.

With the coaching and List changes I would like to see more empowered players, excited to be involved at the highest level, aware of the huge chance to set themselves up for life and appreciative of the benefits they have now and into the future. A big part of this will be the senior players driving this attitudinal re-set.

I would like to see us take big, strong, athletic, key players in the draft with an even greater chance to do this next year.

We will have to wait and see how the changes this year will affect next year and beyond.

If these benefits do not come with our present staff they can be moved on next year after an intensive search for alternatives.

But we have the chance this year to START the process.
Don't give up now.
Buy a membership next year and push for improvement.

If it's just more of the same then I'll be with you.
Out the door and never looking back.

Sorry about the length but I am feeling the need to vent. Probably like a lot of us.   

That is a bloody excellent post  :clapping

"Oh yes I am a dreamer, I still see us flying high!"

from the song "Don't Walk Away" by Pat Benatar 1988 (Wide Awake In Dreamland)

Offline RedanTiger

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Re: Club Reports a $80,257 Loss for 2016
« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2016, 12:21:16 PM »

Sorry about the length but I am feeling the need to vent. Probably like a lot of us.   

We appreciate the grammar. Rant away!

Edit: Just saw your sook at my other two replies (one not even been directed at you ::)) so I should make it clear, this post is genuine

"appreciate the grammar." ??????????????????
"Just saw your sook" ????????????????????

Diddums, give it a rest already.

Offline Gracie

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Re: Club Reports a $80,257 Loss for 2016
« Reply #41 on: November 18, 2016, 02:30:10 PM »
The operating profit was actually $1.2m

The loss comes about after claiming Amortisation and Depreciation. Businesses of all sizes make these claims as legitimate tax deductions. Same as claiming laundry expenses on your tax or depreciation on your car for using it for work related matters.

Given we have up graded the buildings at Punt Road and the ground work there would be plenty of areas to claim big time on depreciation. Haven't seen the actual financial statements but suspect these areas contributed to the result.

One smallish loss after 11 years of profit does not trigger bankruptcy.

You are correct but and it's an important but

Every year there is depreciation and amortisation costs, that is not in dispute

However, when the club makes a profit; let's call it bottom line profit to keep it simplistic. It has never said we've made an operating Profit of say $3mil but after deprecation & amortisation the "bottom line" profit is $800k... it is simply announced we made a $800k profit

This year for whatever reason they have decided to make the distinction which is IMV a poor way to do it because it has created unnecessary & extra noise around the number

What they should have said again IMO is "we've made a loss of $80k which includes extra amortisation costs for the new Fitness business venture at Cardinnia Shire. Doesn't try and distort the numbers just highlights and explains an increase in expenditure due to business changes

All good agree with the above. With so many new shiny things around Punt Road the depreciation expense should be higher than past years and the amortization of costs in the Fitness Centres is also new.

Cant really be bothered actually looking at the financial statements for the past few years but I am not overly worried by a smallish loss this year when budgets would have been made on the assumption of a good year most likely with us reaching the finals.

The main thing will be that the next year budgets are worked on the lower income expectations and the club returns to a profit, which will be acceptable.....unless we make a loss for paying out Hardwick (but that would still be acceptable.....as long as someone from the Board takes responsibility and resigns.)

Online WilliamPowell

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Re: Club Reports a $80,257 Loss for 2016
« Reply #42 on: November 18, 2016, 03:54:19 PM »
All good agree with the above. With so many new shiny things around Punt Road the depreciation expense should be higher than past years and the amortization of costs in the Fitness Centres is also new.

Cant really be bothered actually looking at the financial statements for the past few years but I am not overly worried by a smallish loss this year when budgets would have been made on the assumption of a good year most likely with us reaching the finals.

The main thing will be that the next year budgets are worked on the lower income expectations and the club returns to a profit, which will be acceptable.....unless we make a loss for paying out Hardwick (but that would still be acceptable.....as long as someone from the Board takes responsibility and resigns.)

You're spot on with you comments about the way the budgets were most likely set

I know people are saying they can't understand how a club with 70k members and a turnover of $40+mil can make a loss and I know I made a comment a few backs about quite easily but it is actually true (doesn't make it acceptable but explainable)

But really it is simple: Example A really on the back of the on field especially the drop in crowds the bottom line is going to take a hit. You budget for say 75k-80k for a home game against the Pies and you get less than 70k your going to cop hit, a six figure one I reckon. Both games against the Bombers where we share the 2 gates, crowds way down (especially Dreamtime) again another hit.

Then you have all your expenditure forecast based on those revenues so you don't hit all your revenue targets you are going to fall short. Again, without knowing the budgeting process or having access to the final numbers I would think the costs were reigned in the 2nd half of the season when they knew they we were going to fall short. Meaning the loss is mitigated. Left unchecked the result could have been a lot worse and then we would really have something to complain about

And (again) you are spot on re your comments about budgeting for 2017. It definitely needs to be in line with lower revenue expectations than 2016. Because I think everyone is smart enough to realise that on the membership front in particular they will take a hit..how much is the question

"Oh yes I am a dreamer, I still see us flying high!"

from the song "Don't Walk Away" by Pat Benatar 1988 (Wide Awake In Dreamland)

Offline Harry

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Re: Club Reports a $80,257 Loss for 2016
« Reply #43 on: November 18, 2016, 08:11:27 PM »
Why is our revenue so much lower than clubs with similar supporter and member base?  This is a more important question
Does anyone have half an idea on anything?

Offline Gracie

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Re: Club Reports a $80,257 Loss for 2016
« Reply #44 on: November 18, 2016, 08:25:20 PM »
Why is our revenue so much lower than clubs with similar supporter and member base?  This is a more important question

Guessing poker machine revenue might be a factor