Tigers to take year one month at a time (The Age)

[letsgetiton!]

And BTW I don't think they will win the premiership in 2006 

I'm going to enjoy all their cocky supporters turning on Thomas if that happens  . For a club that's won just one flag in over a hundred years of their existence and not for 40 years, they make Pies' supporters sound humble  .
With a weak defence it's not unlikely they'll miss out on the ultimate prize again. The only one I would feel sorry for if they fail is Robert Harvey.

sorry mt, im  a hard bastard,

i dont think the saints will make the 8 this yr, they are going to fall hard.
and i dont feel sorry for harvey at all. and honestly i dont think anyone but tigers fans feel sorry 4 our blokes that missed out , such as knighter, gale, campbell, richo thuis far etc etc.

lets hope the saints suffer the most miserable season along side the blues pies and bumbers   

[Tiger Spirit]

Rod Buttress deserves alot of the praise for St Kilda in terms of creating stability for them off the park…

I guess you’re right in many respects MT, because Thomas couldn’t have done the ground work he has done without the backing of the Club.  As we know too well.  But St. Kilda wouldn’t be where it is today either, without Thomas, regardless of whether he gets them a flag or not.

That’s not to say anyone else couldn’t have done the same job, it’s just that no one ever had before.

Just back to the Saints, I still have niggling doubts over Grant Thomas as a matchday coach. He really made some dumb moves in last year's PF and if a premiership cup isn't in the trophy cabinet in October then the knives will come out for him given the list he inherited with multi-first round draftees.

There’s always an example to blow an argument out of the water and it’s funny how we’re talking about the Saints, because they’re a team now considered to have the players to be flag contenders.  However, they haven’t got there yet, even though they seem to have the areas we’re talking about covered.  Maybe their time just haven’t arrived yet.  I guess it’s as you say though, that:

…there are many pieces to the puzzle that need to fit together for a club to be successful, …

In many ways, this debate is a bit like the ‘chicken and egg’ theory, but I have to argue against the next bit:

…if you don't recruit highly talented and smart players with drive and a top work ethic in large enough quantities in the first place then it doesn't matter how good your development is. We just happened to be lousy at both for decades in any case .

How do we explain the Geelong of the 90’s?  For all their skill, talent and ability, no flag?  Most other clubs that had a number of shots at a flag managed at least one, but in several attempts they lost all of them.

And then there’s the Swans last season.  Not the best list, but the best ‘team’.

Just wanted to go back to and earlier point we were discussing MT, which probably started this:

I think it's a bit misleading in that article to throw what happened in 2005 in with the previous 3 years.

I understand what you mean, because the footy department has completed changed.  But even though there was a new coaching set up in place, and everything else that went with that, many of the players were the same and they don’t forget everything they’ve learned from a previous coach when a new one turns up.

Old habits don’t then suddenly disappear.  To improve, players have to develop new habits.  To do that they have to learn how to respond/react to certain situations so the same lame results don’t keep occurring.  In our case, we saw games last year that resembled something from previous seasons.  I don’t presume your saying we should ignore those situations, and I’m not saying anything you wouldn’t already know, but just wanted to make the point that the arrival of a new coach doesn’t mean players forget their old habits without first learning new ones.  Which is probably what I needed to say in the first place.

[mightytiges]

I have two main concerns about the Saints - Thomas' matchday coaching and their defence. Losing Penny as a key defender and Aussie Jones' run off half-back will hurt them. It'll be those too things that may cost them a flag this year. If they fail in 2006, they'll also lose Gehrig and Harvey at the end of the year.

In many ways, this debate is a bit like the ‘chicken and egg’ theory

That's true TS. We could easily reverse what I said in a earlier post and say without good development, picking up the best kids will not solve our problems. But IMO recruiting the best kids comes first given the restrictions of the draft and salary cap. If you stuff up you can put a club back 5 years. Once a kid is at the Club we have more control over their destiny and it's then entirely up to the kid (their ability and work ethic to succeed) and us (to provide a good structure, culture, coaching and facilities around them to help them succeed).

How do we explain the Geelong of the 90’s?  For all their skill, talent and ability, no flag?  Most other clubs that had a number of shots at a flag managed at least one, but in several attempts they lost all of them.

And then there’s the Swans last season.  Not the best list, but the best ‘team’.

Luck and timing also plays it part in winning a flag IMO. 99% are all the variables that we've been discussing that result towards winning a flag; the last 1% say is luck.

The years the Cats made the GF they were always the second best team behind Hawthorn (89), West Coast (92, 94) and Carlton(95). All great sides in those respective years. The Cats came third in 91 again behind super Hawk and Eagle sides and they didn't make the top 8 in 90 and 93. Ironically 90 and 93 were probably the weaker years so their "timing" was out every single year. Put simply they weren't good enough when it mattered.

Geelong also had a bad habit of reminding themselves that they hadn't won a flag in yonks by wheeling out Bobby Davis every GF week and placing unnecessary expectation and pressure on their team. That's something we need to watch out we don't do if and when we make a GF. And on top of that they choked in the 92 GF after being 4 goals up at half-time. On the back of the losing by a kick in the 89 GF, IMO that scarred that core group of Geelong players.

The Swans on the other hand had perfect timing to pinch a flag in a weak year. An even 22 that exposed and choked opponents that lacked forwards (Geelong, Eagles) or defenders (Saints). Paul Roos also kept the Swannies focussed and at ease and didn't put too much pressure on them during the finals.

Of course hindsight is a wonderful thing when judging the hows and whys. 

Old habits don’t then suddenly disappear.  To improve, players have to develop new habits.  To do that they have to learn how to respond/react to certain situations so the same lame results don’t keep occurring.  In our case, we saw games last year that resembled something from previous seasons.  I don’t presume your saying we should ignore those situations, and I’m not saying anything you wouldn’t already know, but just wanted to make the point that the arrival of a new coach doesn’t mean players forget their old habits without first learning new ones.  Which is probably what I needed to say in the first place.

That's also true TS. Last year under pressure from top hard-running sides we did go back to old habits of poor skills/decision making and not supporting each other. It's going to take time to "re-educate" and de-spud lol our list but with the T@FE courses, the mentor program and the rebounding and run and carry drills at training, I see a serious effort from the Club to develop these new (good) habits.