Richmond players accused of groping Mabior Chol during team song (HSun/Age)

[WilliamPowell]

To me this is disgraceful, very very disappointed in this situation, you may think it nothing and harmless horseplay but I disagree.
Nothing has upset me more in all the years I have followed Richmond than this pitiful display.

I've used up all my free Age articles for this month

But they are saying the Club has bought in a QC and other 3rd parties to support end discuss the incident with Marbs. Who has saod he has no issue.

  well down to Tiger's, doing this the right way.

Don't think any club will doing it again in the future

[one-eyed]

Tigers' legal counsel interviewed Chol about groping incidents

By Peter Ryan and Steve Barrett
August 8, 2020 — 5.40pm

Richmond instigated a formal procedure with Mabior Chol, directed by the club's legal counsel and head of integrity Hannah Hopper, to ensure he could genuinely express any concerns he had about his post-match treatment from teammates after the Tigers were made aware of footage that showed him being groped.

The Tigers spoke to Chol about the incidents to ensure the 23-year-old had a clear and informed view of his options in relation to the incidents, which Tigers CEO Brendon Gale on Saturday described as "a bad look".

It was only after that process was completed that the Tigers sent out a statement containing apologies from Jayden Short and Nick Vlastuin, as well as a statement from Chol in which he said he had no issue with his teammates.

Gale told 3AW on Saturday they were confident that Chol's statement reflected his actual views because the club conducted what he described as an "arm's length" process of inquiry.

"The opinion that really matters here is Mabior and yes, he recoiled, and yes, he was surprised and it was unexpected but for him it is a non-issue and we should take that into account," Gale said.

"[We] have taken steps so he can say how he feels at arm's length and at the end of the day ... we are entitled to accept that on face value."

Gale revealed the Tigers' leadership group first addressed the matter in a meeting in Queensland on Thursday.
The leaders subsequently made it clear to their teammates the actions were unacceptable and not to be repeated, with the

CEO discovering action had already been taken when he told football manager Tim Livingstone to follow the issue up after members brought the incidents to his attention.

Gale described the acts by Vlastuin and Short as silly, childish, stupid and juvenile.

"It's a bad look and it's got to stop and it will stop," Gale said.

It was a stance echoed in an AFL statement on Saturday, which called the behaviour " inappropriate, unacceptable and juvenile" and demanded clubs and players "ensure this inappropriate behaviour is not repeated".

The incidents entered the public realm after journalist Hugh Riminton put a series of questions to Richmond coach Damien Hardwick about the matter on Friday.

Hardwick cut that interview short but was more reflective when asked about the incident 24 hours later, following his side's hard-fought 21-point loss to ladder-leading Port Adelaide.

"No, it was more about education," Hardwick said when asked if there was ever any prospect of Vlastuin and Short being stood down for the Power clash at Adelaide Oval.

"At the end of the day, the guys made a mistake and they're incredibly apologetic about it.

"Mabior took no offence to it, [but] it doesn't make the action right. We understand that.

"Our players won't do it again. We've had some conversations about it.

"The look is really poor, the action is poor and we'll learn from it. And most importantly others will learn from it as well."

Gale had defended their response to Riminton on the basis that the incident was raised in a criminal context.

"[If] conduct is put to him by a very creditable national affairs reporter of criminality, of indecent assault, of allegations he was quite rightly not aware ... to be honest, I thought the coach handled himself very well," Gale said.

"I don't think those questions should be put to a club coach ... They should be put to administration, they should be put to me."

He said the club did not back away from what had happened, and their responsibility to ensure it did not happen, saying he thought such actions by the players were unusual.

"It is unusual but as is often the case when the mirror of community expectation is held up, sometimes behaviour of this nature, or this conduct, is found wanting and I think that this is the situation we find ourselves in," Gale said.
Gale said Chol's wellbeing was a priority and they would continue to speak to him to ensure he was supported.

The Players' Association was also satisfied Chol did not want to make a complaint about the matter.

St Kilda have also apologised for the actions of former Tiger premiership player Dan Butler after images showed him grabbing at teammate Jade Gresham's backside during the team song after the club's narrow win over Gold Coast. The Saints said there was no context where it was acceptable behaviour from Butler and they would ensure it was not repeated. Butler apologised for his action.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/tigers-legal-counsel-interviewed-chol-about-groping-incidents-20200808-p55jun.html

[one-eyed]

Damien Hardwick 'disappointed' at players involved in Richmond groping controversy

Nine's Wide World of Sports
8 August 2020

Richmond coach Damien Hardwick has admitted that Jayden Short and Nick Vlaustin's groping of teammate Mabior Chol was not a great look for the game.

The issue was brought to light by veteran journalist Hugh Riminton in a terse press conference exchange with Hardwick on Friday morning, before the two players apologised to Chol in a club statement later in the day.

Speaking for the first time since the press conference, Hardwick revealed that the club had internally dealt with the matter two days prior to the exchange with Riminton.

However, while he admitted he was "disappointed" at the actions of the defensive duo Short and Vlaustin, Hardwick said dropping the players was never in consideration.

"We admit it's not a great look for the game and we're disappointed," he told Fox Footy's Saturday Countdown.

"The fact of the matter is, we spoke about it about two days earlier, so we thought we had nipped it in the bud and then obviously yesterday happened and we had to deal with it again.

"We condemn the behaviour obviously, but once again we'll support the individual. It's all about education from our point of view and it's in the eye of the beholder. We'll continue to educate our players and to continue to learn from it."

Despite refusing to answer the questions posed by Riminton in Friday's press conference, Hardwick denied that the issue had been "overblown".

"The reality is, it's a situation that doesn't look great," he said.

"We understand that we're here to set an example and we dealt with it a couple of days ago, so our players are under full understanding that it shouldn't happen and won't happen again.

"It's something that is prevalent in society so we've just got to make sure that we nip it in the bud and continue to set the really good example that we know we can."

read:https://wwos.nine.com.au/afl/damien-hardwick-admits-disappointment-at-mabior-chol-groping-controversy-richmond-tigers/3c9bb347-ebb6-4e5f-b26d-ec1ad7861bdb

[Tigeritis™©®]

So again only Chol was groped?
Not that I saw.

Short was groped by Riewoldt.

Watch it again, Vlastuin was groped by nearly all the players.

I wonder if he was afforded the same options presented to him from the clubs legal team?

Or is it because Chol is regarded as particularly “different that what happed to Floss isn’t the same or regarded as just as bad.
No one has mentions this at all (except me) and it is clearly shown in the same video.

If it’s bad for one then it’s bad for all. Floss however represents white privilege so he does not count as much as Chol in any form of “assault”.

And people don’t think intersectionality or critical race theory will be a major issue  in the future?
I rest my case! 

[Rampsation]

Gale getting in the lawyers was right. We dont need players 10 years from now coming out saying they were victims of things going on ... which is whats going on at other clubs.

[Diocletian]

All these flogs who claim to fight racism do nothing but fuel it....

[camboon]

Never liked it , used to shower with my jocks on one year because of one or blokes at a club.
Only funny for the blokes who did it to another bloke, just a form of bullying as well as harassment imo, not buying the race card, it’s not on no matter who does it

[big tone]

Yeah I saw that Joel Wilkinson dude mentioned “racial abuse” on Twitter which is absolutely pathetic.

He is trying to create a race issue where there clearly is none.

Totally agree with you on this Willy.

Joel Wilkinson appears to make every issue about race.

Not sure if many folks on here remember him, he played for the Suns in their 1st couple of seasons.

Some of his "rants" make little sense (sadly) which I don't think is anyway helpful to cause that he is supposedly trying to support and raise awareness of.

This behaviour is not about race. To suggest otherwise is as you say Willy pathetic

I think what people need to realise whether they agree or not is what may have been seen as acceptable a decade or even 5 years ago is not seen as acceptable now.

10+ years ago there was outrage (even on this Forum IIRC) over the Hoapate (sp?) Incident in the NRL. During a game he stuck his finger up an opposition player's backside. He got suspended and his career was effectively over. People were disgusted and said he should never play the game again

I know people will argue circumstances are different but the actions are the same.

Again and people will scoff or disagree but this is a workplace and these actions would not be tolerated in another workplace in the country. I get the argument they are playing a sport, it's being going on for years in sport.

But this is and I know people hate it when it gets raised but this a multi million dollar business and this type of behaviour is not acceptable in any business/work setting

It is the world in which we live, for better or for worse

WP, are you really comparing playing AFL footy to a normal work place?

How often do you grab a colleague and throw them to the ground?
How often do you jump on someone’s head to try and grab something before they do?
And how often do you hug a colleague when they do something good?...3,4,5 times a day?

We all know footy is a multi million dollar business but comparing a normal work place like yours and mine to footy is ridiculous. Anyone can see that.

Also comparing putting a finger up the date of an opposition player to unsettle them, the same as teammates having a laugh and mucking around in the club rooms after the game is just as ridiculous.

I think we all know what happened isn’t a good look for kids watching but to suggest it’s anything other than just mates mucking around is crazy and imo really disappointing.
And for some to try and make it racist, sexual, or bullying does more harm than good to those causes.

Would you or anyone with a son be happy if your boy was accused of rape (which I have heard someone calling this) or assault for doing what Vlastuin or Short did?
Were they stupid to do that on camera? - yes
Did they mean any harm or disrespect to Chol? - 1000% no.

I’m a grown man, have a family, run a business and employ people- would I do what Shorty and Vlastuin did to any of my employees? No, but I also have friends I would quite comfortably muck around with and do that to them.

Example- one of the boys might say “looks like you have put on a couple (KG’s)”  and instead of firing back a return insult, you give them a little flick on the nuts- conversation ended.
Simple and as harmless as that.
No harm done, no malice, no assault, and certainly no racism.

When did being Australian become so hard!

[WilliamPowell]

big tone,

Please don't put words in my mouth.

I have deliberately not put my opinion, that is MY opinion on this issue on the forum. And I won't be today, tomorrow or anytime in the future.

I did make it very make it clear that on the point of racism that this has nothing to do with racism

I raised points based on how things are viewed  in today's world.

At no time did I say I agreed or didn't agree

Clear? And please don't go around potting me about sitting on the fence, refusing to answer. This is nothing new from me lately. This is how I do things now on non footy related topics.

WP, are you really comparing playing AFL footy to a normal work place?

How often do you grab a colleague and throw them to the ground?
How often do you jump on someone’s head to try and grab something before they do?
And how often do you hug a colleague when they do something good?...3,4,5 times a day?

As I pointed out in today's environment, yes it is their workplace. They are professional footballers, so it is indeed their workplace. That isn't my call, that is the law.

In answer to your 3 points, Never, Never, Never

Another point is members contacted the Club over this, so clearly there are people within the Club (members) that have issues with what happened

We all know footy is a multi million dollar business but comparing a normal work place like yours and mine to footy is ridiculous. Anyone can see that.

You may feel that way but as I said under the law it isn't.

Also comparing putting a finger up the date of an opposition player to unsettle them, the same as teammates having a laugh and mucking around in the club rooms after the game is just as ridiculous.

That is your opinion and you are entitled to that

I think we all know what happened isn’t a good look for kids watching but to suggest it’s anything other than just mates mucking around is crazy and imo really disappointing.
And for some to try and make it racist, sexual, or bullying does more harm than good to those causes.

Your last sentence, I said exactly the same thing

Would you or anyone with a son be happy if your boy was accused of rape (which I have heard someone calling this) or assault for doing what Vlastuin or Short did?

Were they stupid to do that on camera? - yes
Did they mean any harm or disrespect to Chol? - 1000% no.

The only opinion I will offer is on your 2nd point above about being stupid doing it on camera. My view is they were stupid doing it all.

I’m a grown man, have a family, run a business and employ people- would I do what Shorty and Vlastuin did to any of my employees? No, but I also have friends I would quite comfortably muck around with and do that to them.

Example- one of the boys might say “looks like you have put on a couple (KG’s)”  and instead of firing back a return insult, you give them a little flick on the nuts- conversation ended.
Simple and as harmless as that.
No harm done, no malice, no assault, and certainly no racism.

Using the example then that business would be in serious trouble if the matter was taken further. Legally workplaces cannot assume that everyone thinks that sort of behvaiour is OK. Even the "extra kgs" comment is legally a no go in workplaces these days.

When did being Australian become so hard!

Bloody good question

[big tone]

big tone,

Please don't put words in my mouth.

I have deliberately not put my opinion, that is MY opinion on this issue on the forum. And I won't be today, tomorrow or anytime in the future.

I did make it very make it clear that on the point of racism that this has nothing to do with racism

I raised points based on how things are viewed  in today's world.

At no time did I say I agreed or didn't agree

Clear? And please don't go around potting me about sitting on the fence, refusing to answer. This is nothing new from me lately. This is how I do things now on non footy related topics.

WP, are you really comparing playing AFL footy to a normal work place?

How often do you grab a colleague and throw them to the ground?
How often do you jump on someone’s head to try and grab something before they do?
And how often do you hug a colleague when they do something good?...3,4,5 times a day?

As I pointed out in today's environment, yes it is their workplace. They are professional footballers, so it is indeed their workplace. That isn't my call, that is the law.

In answer to your 3 points, Never, Never, Never

Another point is members contacted the Club over this, so clearly there are people within the Club (members) that have issues with what happened

We all know footy is a multi million dollar business but comparing a normal work place like yours and mine to footy is ridiculous. Anyone can see that.

You may feel that way but as I said under the law it isn't.

Also comparing putting a finger up the date of an opposition player to unsettle them, the same as teammates having a laugh and mucking around in the club rooms after the game is just as ridiculous.

That is your opinion and you are entitled to that

I think we all know what happened isn’t a good look for kids watching but to suggest it’s anything other than just mates mucking around is crazy and imo really disappointing.
And for some to try and make it racist, sexual, or bullying does more harm than good to those causes.

Your last sentence, I said exactly the same thing

Would you or anyone with a son be happy if your boy was accused of rape (which I have heard someone calling this) or assault for doing what Vlastuin or Short did?

Were they stupid to do that on camera? - yes
Did they mean any harm or disrespect to Chol? - 1000% no.

The only opinion I will offer is on your 2nd point above about being stupid doing it on camera. My view is they were stupid doing it all.

I’m a grown man, have a family, run a business and employ people- would I do what Shorty and Vlastuin did to any of my employees? No, but I also have friends I would quite comfortably muck around with and do that to them.

Example- one of the boys might say “looks like you have put on a couple (KG’s)”  and instead of firing back a return insult, you give them a little flick on the nuts- conversation ended.
Simple and as harmless as that.
No harm done, no malice, no assault, and certainly no racism.

Using the example then that business would be in serious trouble if the matter was taken further. Legally workplaces cannot assume that everyone thinks that sort of behvaiour is OK. Even the "extra kgs" comment is legally a no go in workplaces these days.

When did being Australian become so hard!

Bloody good question

The example was about my friends and not the workplace.
As per the sentence before the example.

And I don’t think I put words in your mouth at all to be completely honest. I just commented on your post.

And just because the minority is offended by curtain things that doesn’t mean everyone else must all comply to that.

Can anyone honestly say Short or Vlaustin meant any harm or malice to Chol?
Anyone on here??
And if the answer is no than this has been blown out of all proportion.

The easiest thing to do is not let the media who seem to think they are the judge and jury on all topics, and look for anything to pot these guys on, in the change rooms. It should be their private space if the media is going to continue along these lines.
Who really cares if we don’t see the players sing the song? It’s the same every week anyway??

We expect these guys to put their bodies on the line during the game and then 5 minutes later expect them to be angels and not be young men who sometimes do stupid things??

Too be honest I’m just sick of all the “do gooders” of the world. (Not saying you are either)

I think all clubs need to start being tougher on the media as they are out of control

[one-eyed]

AFL unhappy after Triple M’s crude parody of Richmond’s groping incident.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2020-triple-m-mabior-chol-triple-m-richmond-theme-song-tigers-richmond-theme-song-parody-nick-vlaustin-jayden-short-damien-hardwick/news-story/c2b0fef9aa212759cb79310af5f6a38e

[one-eyed]

AFL statement: Club briefings on inappropriate player behaviour

The AFL has released a statement after match day footage showed various players engaging in inappropriate and unacceptable behaviour.

afl.com.au
11 August 2020

The AFL will this week provide a briefing for all 18 clubs on the need to ensure club environments are safe workplaces as it expressed its concerns over recent match day footage showing various players engaging in inappropriate and unacceptable behaviour.

AFL CEO Gillon McLachlan said the events of last week showed that the AFL needed to do more to ensure our clubs and football programs are respectful and inclusive workplaces for everyone including our players and officials.
"We condemn the behaviour and need to learn from what happened and ensure that everyone across the AFL understands that we must have working environments that are free from any form of inappropriate conduct or sexual harassment," Mr McLachlan said.

"Where we fall below the standards expected of us, we need to acknowledge that and take the appropriate steps to learn and improve. 

"The AFL and our clubs have made a strong commitment to gender equality and respect and responsibility and as part of this ongoing cultural change in our industry we need to ensure inappropriate conduct is not acceptable, whether it is the office or the changeroom. This is an ongoing journey and we are committed to change.

"What we saw in recent times with players from a number of clubs touching each other inappropriately is clearly not the standard of high performance in the workplace that we could - or should - accept."

Mr McLachlan said that following discussions with industry partners including Federal Sex Discrimination Commissioner Kate Jenkins and Our Watch CEO Patty Kinnersly, the AFL would initially conduct briefings with Club CEOs, Coaches and Club General Managers of Football to discuss the issue of inappropriate conduct including leadership, equality and respect in our workplaces.

The AFL's Respect and Responsibility Policy currently provides the platform for players and officials to report complaints.
He said the AFL would also draw on the expertise of Ms Jenkins, Ms Kinnersly and other authorities ahead of working closely with the clubs at the end of the season on a longer-term approach including the development of an educational program aimed at ensuring more respectful and inclusive high performance workplaces, with a specific focus on players and sexual harassment.

"It's important we work together to ensure our entire industry is really clear about the standards we must set in order to deliver the safest environment possible for everyone working in our game." Mr McLachlan said.

"We already have policies in place but where there is scope to improve them, we will improve them."

https://www.afl.com.au/news/483850/afl-statement-club-briefings-on-inappriopriate-player-behaviour

[one-eyed]

'Never seen that': AFL great slams 'rubbish' groping antics

au.sports.yahoo.com
11 August 2020

A teammate would have been ‘knocked out’ if they attempted to grope someone in the locker room, Carlton and AFL great Mark Maclure says.

In an interview with the Herald Sun, the 65-year-old said groping incidents captured in the Richmond Tigers and St Kilda rooms in recent weeks were ‘not on’, suggesting players were able to get away with more now compared to his playing days.

Maclure, who played 243 games for the Blues throughout the 1970s and ‘80s, said it was a sign of the times.

“I’ve never seen anything like that before in my life, ever,” he said.

“If it had’ve happened (back in the 70s/80s), the bloke who did it would have been knocked out.
 
“Life’s changed a bit. It’s got a bit softer and people tolerate rubbish. But I’m telling you, that stuff’s just not on.”

The three-time premiership winner with Carlton had support from another triple-flag winning former star in Brisbane’s Jonathan Brown, who also said he’d never seen any behaviour like that during his career.

“I certainly haven’t been involved in or seen any behaviour around the team song like that in the past, so it was very bizarre to be honest,” Brown said.

“I’m sure that’s a warning to the whole competition to keep your hands to yourself during the song.

“They need to get a garbage bin and bang that instead.”

AFL players urged to behave during club song

Patrick Dangerfield says AFL players need to remember they are role models for the wider community and "be better" following a series of groping incidents between players.

The AFL Players Association president - now in his 13th AFL season - cannot recall seeing any incidents similar to those recently brought to light with video footage from the Richmond and St Kilda change rooms.

But he believes it is incumbent on the entire playing group to make sure it is setting the right example, in particular for young fans.

"We've all got to be better," Dangerfield told SEN radio on Tuesday.

"We've all got to understand that, like it or not, as AFL players, we're role models in the community.

"However you think your own personal actions are, it's far more broad than that, so we've got to be really mindful of that.

"Richmond have acknowledged that and they're not alone with what's happened previously at football clubs at different stages.

"We've just got to be really cognisant of the fact that we are role models for the greater community and there's a standard that we need to uphold."

https://au.sports.yahoo.com/afl-richmond-groping-mark-maclure-slams-rubbish-antics-052357959.html

[Tigeritis™©®]

If “older” football players are now going to be getting on their “we were perfect” high horse they have ver very short memories.

How about Mark tell us what he used to say to his aboriginal teammates or opponents? what sort of initiation rite they had for new recruits? or some of the things they used to get up to when they went out on a Saturday night?

It’s easy to forget some of the shenanigans of the past like your poo don’t stink but I will almost hate guarantee that if he was honest with his own historic narrative he would have said and done things that makes these club song antics look as minimal as they actually were.

[WilliamPowell]

If “older” football players are now going to be getting on their “we were perfect” high horse they have ver very short memories.

How about Mark tell us what he used to say to his aboriginal teammates or opponents? what sort of initiation rite they had for new recruits? or some of the things they used to get up to when they went out on a Saturday night?

It’s easy to forget some of the shenanigans of the past like your poo don’t stink but I will almost hate guarantee that if he was honest with his own historic narrative he would have said and done things that makes these club song antics look as minimal as they actually were.

Great points!

You don't even need to go back to Maclure's day. Even more recent at his Club (the last 10 years or so) under Judd's watch as Capt there was an incident on a charter boat on the Yarra with Levi Casboult

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/captive-carlton-rooke-and-booze-cruise-shame/news-story/d3806a19a03d8318b19c79bd8ca73577


Selective memory indeed