Where art thou Small Forward?

[TigerLand]

Can someone please explain to me who our small forwards are?

Our Butlers, Our Walters, Papleys, C.Camerons, Stengle, Betts, Ginnivan type?

Or am I going mad and looking at the entire list we have just one in Maurice Rioli?

Clarke is not a small forward clearly a currently undersized wing/half forward. Bolton is the same if not a genuine midfielder in my opinion. Baker is better down back or in middle. Cotchin is simply not any type of forward. Dusty is medium as is Cumberland. Castagna could argue he was but again I'd argue he was more half forward and medium sized with pace.

I'm just blown away with all our success our list managers built a small fleet of Butler, Castagna, Rioli, Stengle, Lloyd, Higgins and in 2023 not one of them is playing in our fwd line. We talk about key forwards and lack of developed players. At least we have Ryan, Baur and Bradtke ok the list to be tall fwds, possibly Miller, Balta and even Biggy. We can't find any pacey crumbling type players on the list.

Surely a huge need soon..

[Andyy]

Bolton

Cumberland dropped
M Rioli dropped

Castagna retired


Think that's about it tbh. Not enough. Not talls. Not a medium which we haven't had since...I dunno, ever?

[Francois Jackson]

Bolton

Cumberland dropped
M Rioli dropped

Castagna retired


Think that's about it tbh. Not enough. Not talls. Not a medium which we haven't had since...I dunno, ever?

massive problem and that is on our recruiters.

we have scouts around the country so wtf are they actually doing. Bobby Hill, Ginnivan, motlop. Myers all picks above 30, some over 50.

[FooffooValve]

Bolton

Cumberland dropped
M Rioli dropped

Castagna retired


Think that's about it tbh. Not enough. Not talls. Not a medium which we haven't had since...I dunno, ever?

Cumberland isn't a 'small forward', not in my book anyway. Plays more like a short key position player. And Rioli is injured, not dropped. I thought it stood out like dog's nuts that we missed Rioli last week. No pressure on GC as they strolled it out of D50.

Seth Campbell is listed as a small forward. Don't know much about him.

[Stripes]

Bolton

Cumberland dropped
M Rioli dropped

Castagna retired


Think that's about it tbh. Not enough. Not talls. Not a medium which we haven't had since...I dunno, ever?

Cumberland isn't a 'small forward', not in my book anyway. Plays more like a short key position player. And Rioli is injured, not dropped. I thought it stood out like dog's nuts that we missed Rioli last week. No pressure on GC as they strolled it out of D50.

Seth Campbell is listed as a small forward. Don't know much about him.

I agree. Cumberland is mid-sized, opportunist. He is a wonderful deliverer of the ball inside 50, usually a good set shot (though not this year), decent overhead mark and has all the X-Factor in the word as an offensive weapon but...we need a pressure forward who crumbs. We have MRJ. No one else.

I think this is one of the biggest problems this year; our move away from what won us multiple flags - pressure and turnover. We have tried to change our game plan to be more focused on contested ball to take advantage of the 6-6-6 rule. In an effort to exploit our midfield depth, we've tried to rest more midfielders in the forward line. As a result, we now have a dysfunctional forward line.

We need 2 talls, 2 mid and 2 small forwards in the F50 for it to be balanced. At the moment we have 2 talls (with an extra ruck resting in there) and 4 mid-sized forwards/midfielders. The problem with resting players in the F50 is that they then don't have the stamina to chase and tackle, pressure and crumb.

It's time for Dimma to go back to the formula that works and ensure we have at least two small pressure forwards in our forward line each and every week to force turnovers, give us better break away/link up play into space and lock the ball in our forward half. People say that the game as moved on but look at all the best teams, they all have that same formula now. I wonder where they learned it from?

[the claw]

cumberland at 183cm is technically a medium but a small medium. Just One inch and most would be happy to call him a small which by the way is what he plays like in every way imo.

Last time i looked before we got our hands on them. Rioli was a fwd.
Bolton was a forward with traits that suggested he would be able to go thru the midfield which is what has happened. Imo he is still our best small forward.
Clarke well was very much a small fwd when drafted.
Campbell is a small fwd.
Castagna was  like cumberland technically a small/medium but played very much a small role.
Short was originally drafted as a small fwd.
Sonsie had big wraps on his ability as a fwd and a mid.
Dan Rioli a small fwd

Seems to me we dont play em as fwds too often or when we do we expect them to be nothing but defense players and whinge when they aren't.
Then we had Butler Higgins and Stengle.

We don't seem to get the role for small forwards has changed. they just cannot be defensive they have to contribute offensively as well.

People are only now starting to go on about the lack of genuine medium fwds and talls but small fwds as far as numbers go has never been an issue. Maybe we need to talk about the quality of them but hey i think thats already been done as well.
For years we have rotated players that are primarily mids thru the midfield and it is now biting us on the arse because any small we have had who shows a bit of offensive talent are given short shrift and it continues with Cumberland.

We have not seen fit to even draft a medium fwd above 183cm in how freakin long matt parker in 21 what a joke.. Where is our Fritsch type even Ginnivan Rohan. Tim Membrey 188cm a medium who plays kp a lot for the saints Does Cumberland play like him? Nope.

Where are the key forwards people are looking in the wrong direction this just hasnt happened its been coming for years but its what happens when you start drinking your own bath water.

It is what happens when you play kids in the wrong roles to fit favorites into the side.

At the end of the day the title of the thread should be where art though young medium and tall forwards.

[Andyy]

I would call a medium closer to 188-190 myself, like Membrey or Darling or Fritsch.

M Rioli has done a hammy but he was dropped earlier this year too.

[the claw]

I would call a medium closer to 188-190 myself, like Membrey or Darling or Fritsch.

M Rioli has done a hammy but he was dropped earlier this year too.

Definately 188 189 they are big mediums. Only difference is most tend to cut mediums off at 189cm and talls start at 190cm which makes sense imo.
Pretty much for the afl anyone under 180 is a small. Personally i have called anyone under  6ft or 183cm a small.

Mediums 183 - 189. AT 183 you are at the lower end of the scale and are a borderline  small/medium.

 For me anyone  190 thru say 193 a genuine tall but usually not tall enough to play kpp, think Broady 192cm  or Take McIntosh at 191 a tall mid.

An exception Steven May plays kpp at 193cm but has size 101kg and strength to offset the lack of height.
Balta is at the lower end of the kpp scale but again has size strength at 102kg  to offset the height.
Kpp well MOST  not all are at least 194 and Most  are big. Clearly what im saying is nothing is written in stone but the numbers give imo  a very good general indicator.

One type of kpd we dont have and it has hurt us for awhile is the 200cm give or take defender.

Any way to me Cumberland is not a big player and i look at him more as a small than the medium bracket he just manages to fall into.

Again where art though medium and tall forwards

[FooffooValve]

I would call a medium closer to 188-190 myself, like Membrey or Darling or Fritsch.

M Rioli has done a hammy but he was dropped earlier this year too.

Pretty much for the afl anyone under 180 is a small. Personally i have called anyone under  6ft or 183cm a small.

Mediums 183 - 189. AT 183 you are at the lower end of the scale and are a small/medium.

 For me anyone  190 thru say 193 a genuine tall but usually not tall enough to play kpp think Broady 192cm  or Take McIntosh at 191 a tall mid.

An exception Steven May plays kpp at 193cm but has size 101kg and strength to offset the lack of height.
Balta is at the lwer end of the kpp scale but again has size strength at 102kg  to offset the height.
Kpp well MOST  not all are at least 194 and Most  are big. Clearly what im saying is nothing is written in stone but the numbers give imo  a very good general indicator.

One type of kpd we dont have and it has hurt us for awhile is the 200cm give or take defender.

Any way to me Cumberland is not a big player and i look at him more as a small than the medium bracket he just manages to fall into.

For me, it's got more to do with how they play than what the height chart says. Cumberland isn't your front and square crumbing small forward, or at least he isn't playing that way at the moment. He's playing too close to goal IMO, should be up the ground where he can use his pace and good disposal inside 50. He's almost playing as a 3rd tall at the moment.

[TigerLand]

Agree in that Height is a deciding factor is a bit misleading and style of forward is better to describe what we need.

We have no pace or agility in our forward line. I'd categorise the type of forwards by the following

Key Position / Tall: Pack Marking, 1 on 1 contested marking player. Monstors of height, weight and strength.

Medium Forwards: Leading forwards. Key skills are movement, size and strength to mark balls on lead and beat opponents with a mixture of speed and strength.

Small Forwards: Crumbing, speedy, front and centre, pressure forwards. Smaller types who excel with speed and agility plus a sense of goal.

Come to think of it we hardly have any of these types lol.

Tall KP - Lynch, Ryan, Jack sorta
Medium - Jack sorta, Cumberland
Smalls - MJR
Dusty bit of a hybrid

All our mids try and play small forward role but aren't agile or quick enough off the mark. Graham Pickett, Cotchin, Dusty (although sorta plays a hybrid role)

[Andyy]

For me genuine talls are at least 193-194 minimum but that's just my assessment

[MintOnLamb]

Charlie Cameron type?

[lamington]

maybe we can bring castagna back through the mid season draft

[Andyy]

maybe we can bring castagna back through the mid season draft

Since we haven't filled his spot can he just un-retire? Lol

[camboon]

Funny, some times you don’t appreciate something until you lose it
Edwards foot skill
Lamberts leadership and surge run
And George’s forward defensive pressure
 
But  more than anything Winning