Yze’s greatest challenge: How many A-graders do Tigers have? (HSun)

[one-eyed]

Yze’s greatest challenge: How many A-graders do Tigers have?

Adem Yze faces a major challenge if he wants to deliver on his goal of taking the Tigers back to the top four

Richmond hasn’t fallen off a cliff but the Tigers are spectacularly mediocre. On pure pound-for-pound talent, they are a long way back. Can Adem Yze return the them to contender status.

Jon Ralph
HeraldSun
September 24, 2023

“Just to be a part of it was really special.”

First Adem Yze needs to fix Richmond’s game plan.

Then the new Tigers coach needs to make it his mission to find the missing Richmond A-Graders.

Yze’s declaration that Richmond could follow in the footsteps of GWS and bounce back into contention was entirely appropriate for a first-year coach expecting excellence from his players.

But as he admitted, Richmond hasn’t won a final in three seasons.

They haven’t fallen off a cliff post-dynasty but they are spectacularly mediocre.

CEO Brendon Gale’s comments cut to the heart of the matter.

Richmond did miss its most structurally important player in Tom Lynch last year but the Tigers’ famed pressure and contest was often non-existent as they bled inside-50s to moderate opponents.

“We were on the cusp of the eight for most of the year, we were probably teasing a little. At times early in the year we were unrecognisable,” said Gale.

“Dimma acknowledged that. Andrew (McQualter) did a wonderful job getting us back on track. We have got some really good players, we exposed a lot of our youth.

We can play a whole lot better, we will play a whole lot better. There is a saying I will pinch from (Yze). You get stuck in the past, you die in the present. We have to continue to evolve.”

Those missing A graders?

Richmond had only one member of the All Australian 44 in Martin, who turns 33 next year.

On pure pound-for-pound talent and match-winners the Tigers are clearly well behind the likes of Carlton, GWS, Melbourne, Collingwood and Brisbane.

GWS and Melbourne both have two first-rounders this year — Richmond has none — while clubs like Gold Coast which won nine games to the Tigers’ 10 are about to recruit three top-10 academy talents.

So Yze needs to squeeze every drop from this list if he is to finish top four, which to be honest seems an unrealistic goal until the next generation have at least another 40 games under their belt.

Those missing A graders?

Tim Taranto must spend every waking moment over summer working on skill acquisition given Champion Data rated his kicking as poor.

His efficiency by foot in his last six games was 35 per cent, 33 per cent, 46 per cent, 53 per cent, 33 per cent and 36 per cent.

Enough said.

Shai Bolton had another ‘nearly-there’ season kicking 31 goals, while averaging 21.7 possessions and four clearances but can former Dees kicking coach Yze straighten out his wonky right foot after 31.29 and 12 complete misses.

Jacob Hopper, Tom Lynch and Josh Gibcus need luck with the injury gods given Lynch and Gibcus could have been the bookends but played four games between them.

Hopper is a potential A grader but has played 20 games or more in only three of seven seasons, averaging only 17 games.

The back line has huge potential in Gibcus, Noah Balta and the big improver from 2023 in Tylar Young, with Richmond believing they can play 150 games together.

Slot in stars Jayden Short, Daniel Rioli and Nick Vlastuin and it can one day be premiership calibre again.

Then comes the group on which this team will rise or fall under Yze – the 12 or so kids who are yet to make the grade.

Can three become A graders and three turn into the type of dependable role players like Jason Castagna, Marlion Pickett, David Astbury in the premiership years?

That group includes half back Tom Brown (pick 17), Thomson Dow (pick 21), Tyler Sonsie (pick 28), Sam Banks (pick 29), Judson Clark (pick 30), Samson Ryan (pick 40), Noah Cumberland (pick 43), Hugo Ralphsmith (pick 46), Maurice Rioli (pick 51), Jacob Bauer (mid-season draft), Matthew Coultart (mic-season draft), and James Trezise (mid-season draft).

Yze said on Friday “it’s not about the talent, it’s about the character who walks through the doors at the footy club”, but talent is a bloody good start.

Melbourne and Richmond recently won flags by that A-grade talent, but both clubs also maximised their second and third-round picks as Demons like Tom Sparrow, Bailey Fritsch, James Jordon and Harry Petty combined with the blue-chip draftees.

So Yze doesn’t have a moment to waste with a compromised draft hand, a star forward in Lynch coming off dual foot surgeries and a batch of contenders that have gone past the Tigers at a rate of knots.

He will have a honeymoon period and the recent Richmond flags will buy him time with supporters, but if Richmond is to contend again soon he truly would be the new Damien Hardwick.

https://www.codesports.com.au/afl/adem-yze-faces-a-major-challenge-if-he-wants-to-deliver-on-his-goal-of-taking-the-tigers-back-to-the-top-four/news-story/cbc203bf0656907b924bb5845e43c2e8

[the claw]

Pretty honest article from Ralph.

 Have been saying too many of the middle tier are just decent  and there are very few juniors coming thru who look like being B graders let alone A graders.

Look at the list, look at the 18 thru 22 year olds. Fourteen  of them all up  and there is only one i would be prepared to say will be an A grader and he just missed his entire second season. A few  others may get there as its early days  but its scary to think about just how much building we need to do.

Imo the system that allowed us to win three flags is now our nemesis. its killing us because it allowed us to put a lot of average players into roles
that only needed one good skillset and in some cases not even that for the the system to work.

People also need to keep in mind that we have had limited access to high quality kids we should be expecting a high turn over of kids but its the opposite with most, its as if people are expecting every pick we have  to be a star. Usually that does not happen with these type of picks and most tend to fail.

We also have just 7 development players that is players aged between 23 and 24 they are the ones who have shown enough as juniors to be retained and  further developed.

They are Cumberland, Ross, Mansell, Miller, Ryan, Colina and Balta. its an ordinary bunch to date with the exception of Balta who so far is inconsistent and very hit and miss. Is there an A grader amongst them,  you could make a case that only Balta is worth keeping long term. Ryan shows promise and the rest are either just okay or still trying to establish themselves.

We have just 9 players who are mature and in their prime aged 25 thru 28.
Taranto who i would describe as an A grade inside mid.
Rioli who i would describe as an A grade running defender.
Bolton who i would describe as an A grade mid/fwd  combination.
The other 6 range from average   tradeable   to very solid players.They are Hopper, Short, Baker, Soldo, Young, and Graham.

Then we have the Vets 9 all up the first 5 are most likely gone within the next 2 maybe three seasons they are 32 plus Martin, Lynch, Prestia, Grimes, Pickett.
Then we have 4 who are 29 to 30 and are entering the slowing up stage.They are McIntosh who is ordinary anyway. Broady who is still playing good footy, Vlastuin who had a very good second half to the year, and Nankervis who continues to be improtant to us.

Of them i would say only Dusty and Lynchy are A grade all will probably go into further  decline

[Hard Roar Tiger]

I don’t mind the list, in fact I would say the bigger issue is a combination of player development and game style.
We’ve become a team that get’s beaten in patches - 20 minutes here, 15 minutes there. The game vs Dees being a perfect example.
Players have generally stagnated - whether on list for a couple or several years - Baker, MRJ, Sonsie, Balta are a few examples
Others no longer belong with Grimes, Pickett and KMac standing out.

Finally, training standards clearly had slipped and this rippled into game day.

Don’t need to cook them 1000 different Dimma, just remember how people like them cooked and do it over and over again.

While list management is one consideration, in this world of equalisation - the differences in lists aren’t that great.
It’s what you do with the list, how you develop game style to suit that list and the insatiable appetite to drill that into the player group - physically but also into the mindset that it is the best way to win which makes all the difference.

I don’t agree with Ralphy, apart from Cotchin and Jack, our list isn’t that much worse that it was when we won back to backs.

Everything has slipped markedly and that is Yze’s opportunity

[Gigantor]

Age has probably played a part in players dropping off too

[WilliamPowell]

We also have just 7 development players that is players aged between 23 and 24 they are the ones who have shown enough as juniors to be retained and  further developed.

They are Cumberland, Ross, Mansell, Miller, Ryan, Colina and Balta. its an ordinary bunch to date with the exception of Balta who so far is inconsistent and very hit and miss. Is there an A grader amongst them,  you could make a case that only Balta is worth keeping long term. Ryan shows promise and the rest are either just okay or still trying to establish themselves.

Colina has shown very little, been injured all of 2023 and will be lucky to reamin on the list.

I don’t mind the list, in fact I would say the bigger issue is a combination of player development and game style.
We’ve become a team that get’s beaten in patches - 20 minutes here, 15 minutes there. The game vs Dees being a perfect example.
Players have generally stagnated - whether on list for a couple or several years - Baker, MRJ, Sonsie, Balta are a few examples
Others no longer belong with Grimes, Pickett and KMac standing out.

Finally, training standards clearly had slipped and this rippled into game day.

Don’t need to cook them 1000 different Dimma, just remember how people like them cooked and do it over and over again.

While list management is one consideration, in this world of equalisation - the differences in lists aren’t that great.
It’s what you do with the list, how you develop game style to suit that list and the insatiable appetite to drill that into the player group - physically but also into the mindset that it is the best way to win which makes all the difference.

I don’t agree with Ralphy, apart from Cotchin and Jack, our list isn’t that much worse that it was when we won back to backs.

Everything has slipped markedly and that is Yze’s opportunity

Top post.  Excellent

[Francois Jackson]

Ralphy is spot on he must be reading some comments on here.

List is the same as our premiership years. Now that's some funny poo. Lynch just missed a year and is 31, Dusty 33, grimes is cooked,  etc and our list is the same  George kicked 28 goals in 2019 and now we have  blokes like MRJ who has no idea what day it is.

We had an exceptional  team in the right age bracket, class and leadership. The list is nowhere near the same unless your happy to finish in the middle of the ladder and make up the numbers

Just ask port how that feels or any tiger supporter through 13-15.

[Andyy]

With respect to our boys, the current list is trash compared to 17-20 IMO.

We had generational players like Jack, Rance, Dusty in their primes. Proper A grade players like Cotch and Grimes etc.

We traded good talent in like Prestia, Nank and Caddy who were all solid but to be honest that's about the ceiling with our list now with only Dusty a stand out, Taranto a maybe and Lynch who knows.

We won't win a flag unless we get a grade talent - we can't afford to pay for more in the TPP and there's minimal draft capital to trade or recruit them either.

I can see us being ordinary for at least 3-5 years but if we make some hard decisions now to improve our hand I think we can keep that closer to 3 than 5.

[Hard Roar Tiger]

I think my point was moreso about lists across the competition.
The big lesson I learnt from 2013-2016 to 2017-2020 was while we had a great off season after 2016, the big step up was in game plan and buy in to player role.
That has fallen away dramatically in the past couple of years.

I would be firmly focussed on that first.

[georgies31]

Your never as bad or good as you think you a. That's not to say we don't need young talent in without a doubt and we need a rejuvenation stop relying on the players that got us there but not performing. I look at the pies they have got some top talent etc  but rest a average even there trades last year. For me we got to put a few names on the table and get some picks in.

As people said standards dropped bigtime at training. Fitness and conditioning everything. Yze needs to work on skills , kicking , transition,  defence and our forward line and rejuvenate us.

[JP Tiger]

The club wanted to find a young coach to take a young list through the development years until we come back up to the top of the ladder.  Yze was judged as being that young coach (45 is young, just ask me!).  But that is an admission & a recognition from the club itself that our list is in sad need of some work.  Its a self-imposed banishment into the bottom half of the ladder so that we can re-build & do it properly. 

There is clearly no delusion in how the club sees itself at present & I am utterly wrapped to see the path they have taken!  We will get back to being a powerhouse again, our honesty & self-awareness at this time makes it all the more likely.
We have a few A graders around the place, its just a relief that we aren't trying to buy any more A grade recruits to patch the list up.       

[Hard Roar Tiger]

I agree with most of what you’ve said JP but I have a feeling the club don’t see this as a bottoming out based appointment.
Benny seemed quite adamant that the plan is to bounce back in the not too distant future

[Gigantor]

Many  of us here blame the lack of quality youngsters that aren’t coming through or generally the lack of talent around the place with so many retirements , and there’s a lot of truth in all that but we have also fallen away in so many other areas , things that can be fixed quickly . Standards did drop the past few years , for one we are. No longer recognised for a playing style other clubs are eg pies giants etc.
So I agree with Benny and the club in general that we can bounce back quickly ,I doubt it will be too 4 but certainly too 8 can be done

[JP Tiger]

I agree with most of what you’ve said JP but I have a feeling the club don’t see this as a bottoming out based appointment.
Benny seemed quite adamant that the plan is to bounce back in the not too distant future

I don't think we will, or need to, bottom out completely.  I think the next 2 years will be in the lower half though.  We could & may well be challenging again within 3-4 years time.   

[camboon]

A lesson that I believe took us 30 plus years to learn, was poor culture, as mentioned no game plan, players not buying into theirs roles,  as they aren’t all going to make the team of the year. If we don’t recruit and develop our own and only top up with players that are getting a seniors game or are very young and ready to bloom we will finish 9th for near on 30 plus years .

[RedanTiger]

That last post is pretty doom laden.
Culture, game plan and players not buying into their roles has got nothing to do with recruiting and developing our own.
The way that the AFL is set up is to not give high picks for successful clubs.
That is exactly where we are ATM with the added problem of trading our mid first picks for quality like Taranto and Hopper.

As we suffer from our success since 2017 - 2020 re draft picks, we will also benefit from lack of success for the next few years.
To say we will be 9th for 30 years is very pessimistic.
For every year we finish 9th we will get a top ten pick. Not a bad start.
30 years of top ten picks? Aint gunna happen.