A-League thread

[Francois Jackson]

What a match.

Great saves by the keeper.

[mightytiges]

What a match.

Great saves by the keeper.

Yep Theo's save near the end sealed the win.

A shame this side won't be able to play in the ACL until next year. What a stupid rule by the AFC to require teams for the ACL to be submitted 3 weeks before the A-league GF so the best Aussie teams don't end up playing in the ACL. This Victory side would be a good show to go all the way in the ACL. Instead Newcastle who finished wooden spooners this year is going along with Central Coast who ended up 4th ???.

[Ramps]

Look I havent really kept up to date with what happened here, but in this A League all is possible, for example without knowing anything about the match at all, Id hate to think that one club got a massive advantage by having an opposition player sent of after only 10 minutes, nah that wouldnt happen in the A League. Anyway Congratulations to the Victory on winning there 2nd false and unrecognised National Title. What a pity, if only theyd won these so called titles with South Melbourne, Marconi and Adelaide City in the competition, maybe people would take these titles seriously alas ... that isnt to be.

[mightytiges]

 

Come back to me when those little state league clubs pack out 55,000 seat stadiums .

[Hellenic Tiger]

Come back to me when those little state league clubs pack out 55,000 seat stadiums .

10 years ago most of these people who claim to be Victory diehards/supporters did not want a bar of soccer in this country. All of a sudden now everyone is a Victory fan/spokesperson of soccer in this country like they have been following it for years. 10 years ago people would have sat down to watch Man U play on tv but turned off if an NSL game came on.

The standard is appauling first and foremost. An NSL side would not have gone to Indonesia and eked out a 0-0 draw as an A League socceroo squad did recently. Furthermore in bygone eras the bulk of the Socceroo squad was selected from the NSL teams like Sydney Utd/ Olympic, Adel City, Melb Knights, Sth Melbourne etc and could compete and get results against Asian powerhouses like Japan S Korea S Arabia Iran and beat minnows like Indonesia and Singapore which an A League squad drew 0-0 with also.These players then went on to play in big European clubs not nothing clubs in Asia that these so called A league stars are progressing to.

Crowds are down, they have been all season. 2 years ago when Victory and United played off in the big one tix were sold in 2 hours this year tix were still being sold on the Friday before the game. Obviously there is less interest. The sparkle of the A League is diminishing and there is not enough quality going round to sustain this league and now that 2 new teams are entering the league as of next year there will be less quality to go round. Robbie Fowler on a nice nest egg and in retirement will not save this league he will merely run down his playing clock much in the same way Dwight Yorke did Juninho did Jardel Romario did and Aloisi is doing.

There is no structure to nurture the youth. At least in the NSL all clubs had a yoth structure and developed their own players Emerton, Viduka, Cahill, even Muscat went to Europe and played in England, Popovic, Bosnich I can keep reeling names off. You will find state league clubs which are the melting pot of development will be selling their youth o/s and by pass the A League as the standard is so weak.

The A League has merely been developed to put bums on seats and after a few years many are finding that there is no sizzle in the sausage. No thought has been given to the development of the sport. It is merely a plastic franchise competition yet you are finding club owners around the country of existing clubs are selling their stakes in those clubs cutting their losses and moving on. Why because these clubs are 2 or 3 million dollars in debt. Two years ago the Victory was avg 30-35 thousand in their first championship year including a sellout against Sydney yet this year they struggled to get 30k bar the semi final and grand final.

Good luck to the Victory they won, so be it but if that is the way people are going to view things now because that is all they want to see and they feel that what they have now is superior so be it also, but the NSL was a superior comp in terms of competition and standard. To equate that the Victory or any A League team was better than the Sth Melbourne of 98/99 or the Woolongong of 2000/01 is laughable.

If the AFL were to turn around tomorrow and say from season 2011 all Victorian clubs are gone and will cease to exist and only the interstate clubs will survive and then they come up with a plan to form 2 or 3 Melbourne clubs that have no affiliation or connection to any AFL club that exists now I am sure alot of us would be shattered. I am a Heidelberg supporter not a South supporter but I fully understand Ramps and sympathise in his case. South was a founding member of the NSL in 1977 and won 4 championships most successful NSL club. It all equates to nothing for a competiotion that does what.
Have an inferior standard
Losing money
Getting sold by its owners
Holiday resort for former stars who are running in their pension cheques.

I'm with Ramps, give me the standard and quality of the NSL anyday as opposed to this plastic manufactured madness.

P.S Ramps Go Heidelberg against South on Sunday.
May not be 55000 but there's history tradition passion in spades on view for those that will actually turn up something the Victory don't have.

1980's and 1990's boom sport Basketball in Australia. Now nowhere struggling.
2000's boom sport is soccer and much like the MLS in the States its on its way down and the novelty is wearing off. In 10 years some of these current A League clubs may not be around in the form they are in currently. Melbourne Heart will not create a rivalry with the Victory. Trust me on this. This will not be a  South v Heidelberg South v Preston South v Knights Heidelberg v Knights derby/ rivalry. Not next year not ever.

[mightytiges]

There is a lot of romanticism about the old NSL from the supporters of the clubs that were in it. The competition and Soccer Australia as a whole was bankrupt by the end. Teams had died, were dying or had fallen back to their state leagues to survive or sadly still die out. Average crowds were around 5,000 and there was no money in the sport. Something radical had to be done so it isn't like that AFL example unless we're talking about North and Melbourne. For what it's worth the VFL/AFL has already killed off two Victorian clubs. Just a sad reality of modern professional sport and hopefully one the RFC never has to face as a possibly ever again.

NSL clubs were ethnic based so most Australians who weren't ethnically connected to a club didn't give a stuff about the NSL. You'd go to a Melbourne Knights game and the kids would be wearing the chequered red and white Croatian national jumper not the Melbourne Knights jumper and they'd be chanting 'Croatia Croatia'. They were a good club but hardly attractive to a non-Croatian soccer fan. It's a no brainer why the Victory bandwagon has grown under the A-league. Victory is Melbourne's sole team and the A-league can build upon rivalries based on old state and regional rivalries. There is an inclusiveness which bypasses the old ethnicity. I actually agree another Victorian side is a waste of time btw.

As for the standard go and watch some old tapes of NSL games. It was crap compared to now. Slow, poor technical skills and error riddened. Anyone who was decent left for Europe by the time they were 20 so those now big names hardly played in the NSL in their prime years. The A-league has of this season a national youth league and women's league. You find they have or are going to make it compulsory that all kids coming through have to play for a specified period of time in the A-league at some level which commits them to play for the Socceroos before they go overseas.

The Socceroos were a joke during the time of the NSL. Sure they might pinch a suprise win in a friendly here and there but when it came to the crunch they couldn't hack it. Imagine losing to NZ nowdays  . It wasn't just the players but the whole infrastructure of the sport was rotten to the core.  Things had to change and radically. The fact of the matter is Australia qualified for the World Cup 3 years before the NSL came long yet the NSL/SA weren't able to repeat that feat in the 27 years or so it existed. Since the A-league and the management structure that created it has come in,  Australia has finally returned to the World Cup and we will be back there again next year and we are now in Asia where Australian clubs can earn bigger dollars from tv rights in the ACL. Melbourne is also of course getting their own new rectangular stadium so they won't have to put up with Ian Collins' Dome screwing clubs any longer. Now hardcore soccer anti-AFL people are deluded if they think soccer will takeover Aussie rules but the A-league has found its place in the sporting marketplace to sustain itself if well-managed.

[Ramps]

There is a lot of romanticism about the old NSL from the supporters of the clubs that were in it. The competition and Soccer Australia as a whole was bankrupt by the end. Teams had died, were dying or had fallen back to their state leagues to survive or sadly still die out. Average crowds were around 5,000 and there was no money in the sport. Something radical had to be done so it isn't like that AFL example unless we're talking about North and Melbourne. For what it's worth the VFL/AFL has already killed off two Victorian clubs. Just a sad reality of modern professional sport and hopefully one the RFC never has to face as a possibly ever again.

NSL clubs were ethnic based so most Australians who weren't ethnically connected to a club didn't give a stuff about the NSL. You'd go to a Melbourne Knights game and the kids would be wearing the chequered red and white Croatian national jumper not the Melbourne Knights jumper and they'd be chanting 'Croatia Croatia'. They were a good club but hardly attractive to a non-Croatian soccer fan. It's a no brainer why the Victory bandwagon has grown under the A-league. Victory is Melbourne's sole team and the A-league can build upon rivalries based on old state and regional rivalries. There is an inclusiveness which bypasses the old ethnicity. I actually agree another Victorian side is a waste of time btw.

As for the standard go and watch some old tapes of NSL games. It was crap compared to now. Slow, poor technical skills and error riddened. Anyone who was decent left for Europe by the time they were 20 so those now big names hardly played in the NSL in their prime years. The A-league has of this season a national youth league and women's league. You find they have or are going to make it compulsory that all kids coming through have to play for a specified period of time in the A-league at some level which commits them to play for the Socceroos before they go overseas.

The Socceroos were a joke during the time of the NSL. Sure they might pinch a suprise win in a friendly here and there but when it came to the crunch they couldn't hack it. Imagine losing to NZ nowdays  . It wasn't just the players but the whole infrastructure of the sport was rotten to the core.  Things had to change and radically. The fact of the matter is Australia qualified for the World Cup 3 years before the NSL came long yet the NSL/SA weren't able to repeat that feat in the 27 years or so it existed. Since the A-league and the management structure that created it has come in,  Australia has finally returned to the World Cup and we will be back there again next year and we are now in Asia where Australian clubs can earn bigger dollars from tv rights in the ACL. Melbourne is also of course getting their own new rectangular stadium so they won't have to put up with Ian Collins' Dome screwing clubs any longer. Now hardcore soccer anti-AFL people are deluded if they think soccer will takeover Aussie rules but the A-league has found its place in the sporting marketplace to sustain itself if well-managed.

Most of what you said is wrong but anyway ... if it makes Melbourne Victory supporters feel better then you can all go on and believe what you believe but I could real of atleast 100 former South Players who are better than any player than the Melbourne Victory actually has and Tuckerbag would know that the old Heidelberg sides of the late 70s early 80 would have destroyed the current MV team in a match- go ask Gary Cole ... if he was being truthful hed tell you that he himself would probably score 3 or 4 on his own in his prime against the current MV defence.

[mightytiges]

What was wrong Ramps. Crowds were poor unless they were non-ethnic one-team-per-town clubs like Brisbane Strikers or Perth Glory and that was just for GFs. Even a famous club like Adelaide City didn't survive in the NSL till the end and Adelaide Utd was created to replace them. The NSL and SA in general was on its knees. If the NSL was so good in quality then why did it average only 5,000 crowds each week. Some clubs were getting only half that number. The NSL failed to attract decent sponsorship and tv deals to fund it. I watched NSL games as well. Most were shocking. The technical skill level of Australian players was deplorable unless we were talking about a select few like a Viduka who was so far above anyway else he headed OS before he reached 20. A NSL club wouldn't get near the Victory. Modern players are fitter, faster, bigger and fully professional. It's like comparing old VFL players to current AFL players in Aussie Rules. The difference is lightyears apart. 5 of the 8 A-league clubs came from the NSL anyway and the Victory is still number 1  .

[mightytiges]

I might take back what I said after that first half against Kuwait  . No cohesion as a team. Reminds me of the old Socceroos with all NSL players that would lose to NZ  .

[Ramps]

I might take back what I said after that first half against Kuwait  . No cohesion as a team. Reminds me of the old Socceroos with all NSL players that would lose to NZ  .

Just a disgraceful performance tonight. Its clearly a reflection of the decay of the A League and the quality of player being produced. Just disgraceful ... losing to Kuwait ffs.

[mightytiges]

I might take back what I said after that first half against Kuwait  . No cohesion as a team. Reminds me of the old Socceroos with all NSL players that would lose to NZ  .

Just a disgraceful performance tonight. Its clearly a reflection of the decay of the A League and the quality of player being produced. Just disgraceful ... losing to Kuwait ffs.

No excuses here. Sadly no different to the Socceroos of the 80s  . I guess don't play an international after a Mad monday premiership either when a few of the starting 11 had been partying on the tank . Pim picked a poor side too. Why didn't Muscat or more experienced players in the A-league play that could have got the job done easily ???.

[Ramps]

NSL players got Australia to the world cup, and you know its true, even though the NSL had been ditched, the likes of Viduka, Schwarzer, Bresciano, Grella etc etc are ALL NSL products my friend, I didnt see any future Vidukas, Brescianos or Grellas last night. Its simply a disgraceful performance, and its a reflection of the disgraceful junior development programs in place in the A League clubs, clubs like South and Knights and others know the drill ... there not bothering to search for the talents so the game in Australia is on a downhill spiral because everyone hates everyone and no one gives a toss. The sooner the good clubs are invited back into the A League like South and Marconi etc. the quicker junior identification and development will be improved. If the current status quo stays in place for another 5 years Australian soccer will be in full crisis. The level and quality exhibited last night by A League talents was shocking.

[mightytiges]

Kewell and Cahill our two best Socceroos never played NSL. Both left Oz when they were 16.
Bresciano was a product of the Bulleen Lions and AIS (both non-NSL). He played for Carlton for two years but then left for OS when he was 19.
Grella and Kennedy likewise were AIS graduates.
Moore was another AIS graduate and product of Rangers youth system who never played NSL but is playing A-league.
Neill was also a AIS graduate and never played NSL.
Aloisi played just 1 NSL game before leaving at 16. He's played all 4 years of A-league although he had a dud year this season lol.
McDonald played just 2 games for Morwell.
Viduka and Culina both left for OS at 19
Only Schwarzer, Emerton, Chipperfield and Popovic played NSL past their 20th birthday and they all eventually headed OS.

Hmmm a handful of world cup players in 27 years! Sorry not a ringing endorsement from my point of view especially when we had already qualified before the NSL existed and Johnny Warren, Wilson and co were products of state league run clubs. Let's give the A-league 27 years and then compare how many World Cup players played the earlier part of their career in each comp  .


Ironically the Socceroos lost to Kuwait 1-2 in Sydney as well as 0-1 away in 1978 World Cup qualifiers. The Socceroos also lost to Indonesia 0-1 and to NZ 0-2 in Sydney  in the disasterous 1982 WC qualifiers. In 1989 it was another 0-2 loss to NZ in a WC qualifier. Yep just as emabarrassing if not more so than last night from the NSL boys who all had plenty of international experience as Socceroos as well. In the 90s OS players were included in Socceroo line-ups so naturally we became more competitive but still choked when it mattered  . In any case the whole administration of the soccer in Australia in the NSL days was a basketcase so change had to happen. Soccer Australia was broke. No surprise we qualified as soon as the sport got its act together post-2005 and will again for 2010  .

[Ramps]

I reckon your in denial about yesterdays effort, it was shocking and it was a reflection of the quality of player the A League is producing

[mightytiges]

I reckon your in denial about yesterdays effort, it was shocking and it was a reflection of the quality of player the A League is producing

It was pathetic. No denying that. I said it reminded me of the Socceroos of the 80s who were abysmal and would cough up schoolboy error goals like the one last night. All I'm saying is the A-league is no way inferior to the old NSL and old tapes of NSL games and all-NSL Socceroo results show that. The A-league (Victory) would be like league one or two in England (old 3rd/4th division) whereas the NSL would have been a division lower IMHO. Sydney FC would be Conference North standard .