Author Topic: Time to trade big name hunters for Tiger cubs  (Read 6116 times)

Offline mightytiges

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Time to trade big name hunters for Tiger cubs
« on: July 07, 2004, 02:15:25 AM »
Time to trade big name hunters for Tiger cubs
Patrick Smith
The Australian
July 07, 2004

TWO fine warriors for Richmond have called it quits. Duncan Kellaway will not play again and Matt Rogers will play against Essendon on Saturday and then snatch his time. Together they will have played 377 games for the Tigers.

It is a big slice of experience, but it will not be missed in 2005. Their time had come. Kellaway played just one game this year and now the 31-year-old has succumbed to leg and foot injuries and a serious kidney ailment. Rogers' appearance against Essendon will be his first and last for the season.

Richmond supporters will have fond memories of the pair. Rogers, 30, led the goal-kicking in 2000 and Kellaway was placed high in the best and fairest in 1994 and 1997.

But football is impatient and waits for nobody bar tragics who cannot see or feel that their bodies have run out of time and energy.

In terms of preparing Richmond for the tasks ahead in 2005 - and beyond trimming Rogers and Kellaway from the list - is like cutting the nature strip with tweezers.

Richmond will not improve until the football department - whoever that might be - brings out the V8 ride-on mower.

Here are the two fundamental problems facing the Tigers. They are paying 100 per cent of the salary cap when they are stone broke. It has produced four wins in 14 games so far this season. That win-loss ratio is due mostly to the mediocrity of a list that has already cost coach Danny Frawley his job.

In short, Richmond are a team of over-paid, poorly-led duffers.

The club has mismanaged and misjudged the playing list infamously already this decade. To do it again would send the club to the AFL asking for a large slice of the competitive balance fund because sponsors and members would walk away in disbelief. And rightly so.

After a preliminary final appearance in 2001 - the Tigers were trounced by Brisbane - it was decided that the Tigers had their paws on a grand final. So they topped up rather than developed. It was blind faith.

Their first choice in the draft came at 33. They collected Adam Houlihan from Geelong at pick 63 and traded for veteran Paul Hudson. Houlihan has played 29 games in three seasons and Hudson was at the club for just one year.

So the Tigers must now develop youth and cut its salary cap. President Clinton Casey told The Australian earlier this season that the club would push down to 97 per cent as quickly as sensible.

There is a hitch. It has three players on exorbitant salaries contracted out into the future. At least one and maybe all of Matthew Richardson, Brad Ottens and Darren Gaspar must be moved on at the end of the season.

Gaspar would appear the easiest to off-load. The Eagles are interested because they need a tall defender and they have Gaspar's brother Travis on their list.

Gaspar had a poor season in 2002. His performances last year went some way to justifying his huge salary but he damaged an anterior cruciate ligament in round 11.

He has played every game this season but rather than getting better he has got worse. The last four games he has collected a total of 28 possessions and against Brisbane last weekend he had one kick and one handball.

West Coast would pick up some of his salary tab and perhaps offer a relatively enticing draft pick.

Richardson was shopped about at trading time last year. He will be harder to move than Gaspar. The forward has continual problems with his hamstrings. Prospective suitors would want to know whether the issue was back related, tendonitis or poor preparation.

His attitude has been questioned but maybe a change of environment could stimulate him. And while he edges closer to veteran list eligibility the Tigers still have to fund his massive wage.

He certainly would appeal to a club looking for a short-term fix of the highest order but it would come at a cost. The club getting his services would have to pick up a slab of his salary and maybe hand over a first-round pick. Richardson is 29 and the Tigers appear to have a likely replacement for him in Jay Schulz, this month's Rising Star.

Schulz is a power forward -- he kicked six goals against Brisbane -- who looks best suited to playing close to goal. It might be a little cramped down in the square if Richardson stays. A word of warning. Last year Martin McGrath kicked five on debut for the Tigers and was later dropped off the list.

Brad Ottens would fetch the Tigers a first-round draft pick and a handy player at least. He has promised a lot and is rewarded accordingly at Richmond, but has rarely contributed consistently even given his All Australian selection in 2001.

Richmond have had Richardson, Gaspar and Ottens together since 1998. That has not delivered a premiership and will not deliver one. They should be used to enrich a tired list.

Used properly, the trio could help the Tigers set up a group of youngsters the envy of teams like St Kilda and Geelong who have rebuilt their clubs around youth.

It is possible that the Tigers will not win more than five games. That will allow them the early scoop into a national draft pool that is not considered deep with talent and a crack at the best uncontracted players.

Not a bad way for a new coach to start rebuilding a club. More importantly, when you are penniless and talentless, it is the only way.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,10063092%255E12270,00.html
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froars

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Re: Time to trade big name hunters for Tiger cubs
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2004, 05:41:38 AM »
I bet fatprick thinks this is a novel idea.
People have been calling for this type of trading (ME) for years.
Unfortunately, i don't think getting rid of every single one of our aces at the one time is the way to go.
But then again why not?
The only thing against this is the fact the club haven't been able to develop players in the past.  So all we would get is good, talented kids running around like chooks with their heads chopped off - basically no-one at the club to lead them.
Unless we get a coach who has a good record of developing lists with minimum reserves to call upon (cash) - Wallace - then what's the point. 
I would trade Gaspar if there is a willing trade, and would have traded Richo years ago.  But i don't think the ferals would put up with losing Richo, who seem to think he is the heart and soul of the club, despite not getting any consistency out of him.  I guess, people have got to hang their hats on something.
And chucking away a player like Ottens, who are just so hard to replace, well, i hope they think carefully before they do.  The only thing in trading him is next contract negotitions, Ottens is going to extract as much blood out of the club he can knowing other clubs want him.  So, if it gets to this point, i'd trade him in a heartbeat.  He hasn't consistently played well enough that that kind of money warrants.
One thing Fatprick overlooked is the patience of Richmond people to sit back and stay on the bottom of the ladder for a few years.  I can't see a coach being blessed with patient supporters while he goes about developing a new breed.  While St Kilda is successful now, how many Saints fans did you hear calling for Thomas' head.  I heard a few.  Imagine if that was Richmond, he would have gone long ago.  We really do need to show some patience, otherwise we are doomed as a club, continuing the same old cycle of mediocrity infinitum.
So how do you combat that?
You get a very strong-willed coach who comes out and lays down the law and says this is how it's going to be.  Of course, i will instruct him with a few educational emails along the way lol - hahahaha! kidding folks - because i know they don't listen to me anyway.  If they did Miller wouldn't have got those hacks in Fletcher, Marsh et al last year.  If Miller has a say in this year's draft and goes down the same track as last year, I'll be calling for his head.  He has caught the same dreaded duditis disease that's afflicted Danny/Beck for the last five years.
But at the moment, players aren't the prime focus.  We really need a bloody decent coach to lead us to the promised land of success.  God, i hope they don't get it wrong this time :-(

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: Time to trade big name hunters for Tiger cubs
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2004, 08:48:54 AM »
Not a bad way for a new coach to start rebuilding a club. More importantly, when you are penniless and talentless, it is the only way.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,10063092%255E12270,00.html

If Patrick wants me to take him seriously he needs to show some common sense and get his facts straight.

Talentless ??? Yes we lack talent but to say we are "talentless" is a stupid statement. Are Nathan Brown, Mark Coughlan, Andy Krakouer, Brad Ottens and Kane Johnson to name a few "talentless". I don't think so - what we have are a number of players that have talent but don't apply themselves consistently to utilise their obvious talent. Stupid statement Patrick >:( >:(

Also get you facts right - Jay Schulz is this weeks Rising Star nomination not this months :-\
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Offline Disco

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Re: Time to trade big name hunters for Tiger cubs
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2004, 10:39:38 AM »
What a pathetic article!!

How can anyone who cliams to know about football really consider trading Richo, Ottens and Gaspar at the end of the season?!?! ???

Richo put in a side like Brisbane, Essendon or St Kilda would go close to kicking 100 goals in a season. With the delivery that Lynch and Lloyd receive thats a no brainer!

Ottens is critical for us he has many years left and his best years ahead of him well worth the money as his stats have shown with the right coach and a dedicated ruck coach he'll leave every other ruckman in his wake.

Gaspar is the only trade consideration here, and no doubt west coast will consider him I just hope the offer befits his talent, not his current form.

Offline wrennyboy

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Re: Time to trade big name hunters for Tiger cubs
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2004, 10:48:01 AM »
Quote
West Coast would pick up some of his salary tab and perhaps offer a relatively enticing draft pick.


Patrick makes quite a substancial amount of good points there doesnt he. I would only trade gasper in a heard beat if we will get an enticing draft pick or even a last rounder.

Ottens siad that he wil get a reduced salary to show faith in us or something i remember that from somewhere.

And richo is a good question. He lvoes the club so why not give him half his salary. But we have got to shop around for our future guys. I sitll love the bear but if there was a prospect of a 2nd rounder and a good player. I would look twice.
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Offline Harry

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Re: Time to trade big name hunters for Tiger cubs
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2004, 11:09:15 AM »
Agree wit patrick regarding trading Richo and Gaspar.  Also trade Ottens if he doesn't agree to take a substantial pay cut.

Agree that Richo has been good for us and that he does have a couple of years left in him, but we must get something for him when we have the chance.  The club should ALWAYS look at ways at developing our list for the future.  If a club offers a first rounder for Richo then they must take it.  Because with the first rounder we might find a 10 year champion, whereas if we hold onto Richo we will get 1-2 years out of him in a side that will struggle to make the 8.  He retires and we are left with nothing.  Sentiment should not get in th way of improving your list.

Trade Richo and Gaspar, demand Ottens take a substantial pay cut, and if he refuses trade him also.  This years draft has some prospective ruckmen, so Ottens can easily be replaced.  Schulz looks like he has what it takes to play FF, and Gaspar is a dud.  No loss overall.  But we gain 3-4 exciting talented kids that can become the backbone of our future revival.



Does anyone have half an idea on anything?

Ox

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Re: Time to trade big name hunters for Tiger cubs
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2004, 01:12:26 PM »
Agree wit patrick regarding trading Richo and Gaspar. 


Me too.
We could get something great.

As for Gaspar - havent liked the guy for 5 years

Offline Struggletown

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Re: Time to trade big name hunters for Tiger cubs
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2004, 02:07:24 PM »
Here Here Harry...oops wrong forum!!

Yes, ld let Gasper go for a fair portion of his wages and a pick as well.I was a fan of his,but this year he's be nothing short of woeful.I do realize he has been through a knee reco(as have l so l know its tough) but the adage is,if your on the ground you are 100% fit.
Richo will probably stay and l think his prime trading days have passed.I dont believe we'll be offered anything plausible for a trade,and lm not too unhappy about that as he is a Richmond man.Its a pity we may never see the very best of him due to him being injury prone and age will surely slow that big athletic frame down.Its a shame he won't play in a premiership for us.
Ottens l hope stays on a contract that reflects his output of the last few years.If he wants to hold out for a fortune,or bleats he wants to go home,then we must not be bullied into a stupid decision.Call the bluff and trade him to the highest bidder.
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Offline mightytiges

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Re: Time to trade big name hunters for Tiger cubs
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2004, 02:56:06 PM »
I wonder who is playing Patrick's beloved bombers this week  ;).

There was nothing in his article that was outlandish IMO. Like Ox says it's taken Smith until now to say what we've known for years.

As for trading Otto, Richo and Gas... While trading one or two (only if it is Gas and Richo) would be wise policy IMHO; trading all three is just plain stupid for a couple of reasons. You just can't offload all your experienced players at once as it then puts pressure on young blokes to play 22 games in their first year. Secondly trading 3 talls when we don't have enough as it is and with Stafford nearing the end of his career would make us end up short like the Bulldogs. Remember even without trades if we finish this year and next with less than 6 wins we can pick up 10 top quality players. Trading should be done to supplement that.

I agree about Gas being the obvious one to go but then again who is going to want to trade with us in his current "form". We'd be lucky to get a 4th round pick for him  :-\. Miller was on SEN this morning and he was defending Gas saying Gas came back after only 9 months after a knee reco and is still playing under duress. He said Gas realises he has lost pace and spring. There's always hope that once he has a proper pre-season he may return to his old form but we won't know that until this time next year and by then we could be in the same situation as we are now - paying $$$ (he has taken a pay cut to be fair) for no return. Even if he did return to his old ways he age and kicking action should count against him if we a truly rebuilding. So yes I would trade him.

As for Richo we had our chance last year to trade him for West Coast's first round pick and Phil Read (I'm led to believe). Too late now IMO. He'll be on the veteran's list next year anyhow so only half of his salary will count towards our TPP. Patrick is  going over old ground when he talks about Richo's on-field demeanour. You can't say this year that it has been poor. Likewise his form has been terrific and consistent. Plus Schulz is only 19. One top game doesn't make a superstar.

Otto should only go if he wants to go. He's obviously got the talent and at only 24 and with some proper coaching both from the new senior coach and a ruck coach he has time on his side to become a more consistent and dominating player as well as still being around in 4-5 years time. I see Otto as an example of us as a Club not developing our youngsters to their full potential. Unless we get the structures in place to fix that then we'll just do the same to any new batch of kids. Otto, Cogs, Krakouer, Newman, Schulz, etc are the players we need to build a top side around. They are talented. Do we have the ability as a Club to extract that talent to the maximum?! Apparently we were going to re-sign Otto up last year but Otto said he hadn't produced to the level he reckoned he should have and wanted to wait to this year. Miller said Otto wanted to play his whole career at Richmond. We'll have to wait and see if Otto sticks to his word.     
« Last Edit: July 07, 2004, 03:02:19 PM by mightytiges »
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Offline JohnF

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Re: Time to trade big name hunters for Tiger cubs
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2004, 02:59:31 PM »
If Patrick Smith had written this article 2 years ago it would still have seemed dated, but perhaps more relevant.

Both Richo and Gaspar should have been traded years ago, when we could have got something decent for them. Both of them have no leadership qualities to make the argument that they could succesfully show the youngsters the way and they are merely rotting on our list. I can't see anyone giving out more than a chicken wing for Gaspar given the way he looks at the minute. As for Richo, the only team that would consider getting him would be Brisbane, to replace Lynch, and they would only offer him a fraction of what he is being paid for us. I doubt we'd get any substantial pick/s for him anyway though. As for the claim that Richo would kick a 100 goals at Brisbane or Essnedon, I reckon he'd struggle to kick 60. We direct every single ball inside 50 to him. That wouldnt happen at more succesful teams where they have bountiful options to goal.

About Brad Ottens, the only way we'll get rid of him is if he wants to go, because there is so much hype surrounding how talented and how much potential he has that we believe it more than any other club does. If he did decide to go we would definitely get some good draft picks for him. I would be in favour of trading him if we could get a player on a lower wage who delivers as much as Brad does - but does so without the fanfare - together with another draft pick.

I dont think we'll let him go though.

Offline Tiger Spirit

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Re: Time to trade big name hunters for Tiger cubs
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2004, 04:43:00 PM »
Really can’t see us trading Otto, unless he wants to go and unless we can get someone to replace him straight away.  Because our ruck division will look pretty thin with Stafford and Marsh to carry the load.

We can only make so many changes in one season, so is it more urgent that we replace players who need to go now and shouldn’t even be there, or trade players of value (such as Otto) for higher draft picks, or whatever?

Probably by the end of the 2005 season we will be in a better position to do these trades, but if we do that at the end of 2004, chances are, as MT pointed out, that we will have young players carrying the burden for longer than should be necessary next season, unless we can recruit players who are ready to play from day one.

Of the three mentioned, the only one I can see us trading at the end of this year is Gaspar.  And I think others would be traded ahead of Otto.
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Offline mightytiges

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Re: Time to trade big name hunters for Tiger cubs
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2004, 04:57:46 PM »
We can only make so many changes in one season...

I believe the maximum allowable is 13 changes to a playing list in one year. Not sure if that includes rookies?!   
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Offline Tiger Spirit

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Re: Time to trade big name hunters for Tiger cubs
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2004, 05:11:16 PM »
Two players have already retired, so that leaves us with 11 more.
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Offline Disco

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Re: Time to trade big name hunters for Tiger cubs
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2004, 09:20:01 AM »
When schultz gave his interview after his rising star nomination he mentioned Staf Otto and Richo and how pivotal they have been in his devlopment as a key position player, we need these guys to lead our younger players.

The younger players will bring a new and fresh attitude to the club so that we can hopefully eliminate the cancer that is the loss mentality, and inject confidence and pride at Punt road.

As mentioned with Rogers and kellaway retireing and several players to be traded and de-listed, I believe we can't afford to trade 2 KPP for untried youngsters as both otto and richo are tigers through and through and offer far more value than patrick would have you believe.

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« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2004, 12:20:02 PM »
Tiger stars not for sale!
8 July, 2004
Tony Greenberg
richmondfc.com.au

Richmond’s Director of Football, Greg Miller, has jumped to the defence of star Tiger trio Matthew Richardson, Darren Gaspar and Brad Ottens in the wake of comments by leading football journalist, Patrick Smith, that they should be traded at the end of the season.

Smith, in his column in ‘The Australian’ yesterday (Wednesday, July 7), wrote that Richmond must trade at least one and maybe all, of the above-mentioned players in order to rebuild its list.

“Richmond have had Richardson, Gaspar and Ottens together since 1998. That has not delivered a premiership and will not deliver one. They should be used to enrich a tired list,” Smith said.

Miller, however, has dismissed Smith’s suggestion that Ottens (out of contract at season’s end), Richardson and Gaspar (both contracted for next year) need to be shipped out of Punt Road.

Speaking on Kevin Bartlett’s ‘Hungry For Sport’ program on SEN, Miller outlined why each of the players targetted by Smith should stay at Tigerland.

On Matthew Richardson . . .

“As has been well documented, we had a long talk to Matty Richardson last year about some parts of his game.

“He gives everything to the Richmond Football Club. He represents us – on and off the field – in the most passionate way he can. And, sometimes, that body language has let him down.

“But I think this year, for example, that part of his game he’s worked hardest at turning around, and he’s been sensational again off the field and very good on the field.

“So, I’m very pleased with his contribution.”

On Darren Gaspar . . .

“Look, ‘Gas’ hasn’t had the best of years, but he had just nine months off after a knee reconstruction.

“He played because he felt obligated to represent the Club. He felt obligated to get out there and give it his best, and he’s been playing under duress. And, I think it’s unfair to mention him solely on his performance this year.

“He knows he hasn’t been playing as well. He knows that he’s not jumping off the ground or getting off the mark as quick as he will next year.

“So, I think it’s a bit unfair (to criticise him) . . .”

On Brad Ottens . . .

“We put a new deal to Brad last year, so that he wouldn’t come out of contract – and I admire his answer.

“He felt that he’s been paid on potential for too long and that he had to get the runs on the board.

“He wants to play for Richmond his whole career and he wants to be measured on his performances – not on potential. And, I admired him for the stance he took last year.

“And, that’s how the discussions (on a new contract for him) have been going . . .

“Brad’s very much part of our future.

“You could say Brad has been a bit inconsistent this year. He’s had some good games, and some good quarters and good halves.

“I also think he’s been a little bit restricted, too. He’s not quite back to the agility that he had prior to his back operation.

“But I think he’s improving in that area and I believe he’ll be an even better player next year.”

http://richmondfc.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=display&articleid=158963
Everything that is done in this world is done by hope.  --Martin Luther

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