Author Topic: Hawks, Tigers take different roads (The Age)  (Read 2029 times)

Offline one-eyed

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Hawks, Tigers take different roads (The Age)
« on: May 10, 2007, 05:06:30 AM »
Hawks, Tigers take different roads
Jake Niall | May 10, 2007
The Age

FOR the second time in his life, Terry Wallace, who left Glenferrie after the 1986 premiership, chose the volatile, larger-than-life Tigers over the more staid Hawks.

He got a five-year coaching contract — a term that would have accounted for two or three Richmond coaches in the '80s — not as a form of danger money, but because it was apparent that this wretched club, addicted to the quick fix for two decades, needed to employ the Tommy Hafey game style off the field for once and "go long (term)".

If no purpose is served by second-guessing his choice of job, Wallace must surely wonder why the club he spurned is faring much better than the one he's coaching. It's not a complete accident.

The Hawks were in a similarly dire position at the end of 2004, when Wallace began his perilous journey into Punt Road's heart of darkness. Richmond was 16th, Hawthorn 15th, and both were in the throes of divisive elections.

Wallace said at the time that Hawthorn was more capable of a quick rise, because it had the stronger senior group. Interestingly, the opposite is what transpired: the Tigers were immediately competitive — almost playing 50-50 ball in 2005-06 — while the Hawks won only 14 of 44 games.

Herein lies the moral, and a philosophical difference. Richmond talked about taking the long road, Hawthorn walked it, and did not deviate. The Tigers went for youth, but, for various reasons, especially fiscal ones, made more compromises. Mark Graham, offloaded by Hawthorn and picked by the Tigers for 2005, encapsulates the difference in mind-set.

While the Hawks did, as Wallace suggested, own the more able senior group, they didn't give a fig about 2005 and 2006. In fact, finishing down among the stragglers was really the preferred outcome, handing them three more top-six draft picks.

More critically, Hawthorn decided that pretty much every senior player was expendable, and so Nathan Thompson — their sole power forward — was traded and it conned the Kangas into giving it picks 14 and 18 for Jonathan Hay.

"Spida has to go" was written on the Waverley wall as soon as Alastair Clarkson arrived, and Peter Everitt duly departed for a more modest return (saving dollars, though). At one stage, the Hawks even were willing to let the iconic Shane Crawford walk.

To be fair, the Tigers also grasped the necessity of giving up a seasoned commodity for draft picks, and Brad Ottens went to Geelong for picks 12 and 16. But whereas Grant Birchall and Jordan Lewis — delivered to Hawthorn via the Hay and Thompson deals respectively — are having an impact, it's unclear whether the Ottens compensation (Danny Meyer and Adam Pattison) will bring home any bacon for Plough.

Richmond had the right philosophy on Ottens; the question was, and is, one of execution.

Richmond's slightly weaker senior core from 2004 was a disadvantage, since it had fewer players of the right, mid-20s age anyone would want. Joel Bowden and Matthew Richardson were a tad old, and, as sons of ex-players, were perhaps harder to offload from a cultural viewpoint (Richo especially). Still, I doubt it would have stopped Hawthorn.

In early 2005, Hawthorn hired a list manager in Chris Pelchen, acquired in addition to the new football operations manager (Mark Evans), and handed him one of the highest recruiting budgets among Victorian clubs. It empowered the football department to make long-term decisions and was rigorous about benchmarking its list against the rest of the competition. Clarkson, a rookie coach with only a two-year contract, had to operate within long-range parameters.

Richmond, meanwhile, had Greg Miller doing everything except sweep the floor, rather than confining him to the main game, which was list management. Thus, Richmond's debt — about $4 million or so then — is reaping serious on-field repercussions, as the (financially improving) club plays catch-up in its resources. Henceforth, someone should hang a giant sign in the Punt Road offices that reads: "It's the list, stupid."

Luck also has played a part in Richmond's relative stagnation. Nathan Brown snapped his leg like a twig and hasn't recovered. Lance "Buddy" Franklin was overlooked by Richmond and Hawthorn (and the Bulldogs) in draft picks 1-4 and really fell into the Hawks' lucky lap at No. 5.

Still, what's that cliche about good teams "making their own luck?"

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/hawks-tigers-take-different-roads/2007/05/09/1178390390302.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

Offline julzqld

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Re: Hawks, Tigers take different roads (The Age)
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2007, 07:47:38 AM »
Why are we constantly being compared to the Dawks?   :banghead

Ramps

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Re: Hawks, Tigers take different roads (The Age)
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2007, 11:18:39 AM »
Why are we constantly being compared to the Dawks?   :banghead

coz they started there rebuild 12 months after us and they are now 3 years in front of us.

Gordon Bennett

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Re: Hawks, Tigers take different roads (The Age)
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2007, 04:00:25 PM »

coz they started there rebuild 12 months after us and they are now 3 years in front of us.
wrong on both counts.

letsgetiton!

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Re: Hawks, Tigers take different roads (The Age)
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2007, 05:11:34 PM »

coz they started there rebuild 12 months after us and they are now 3 years in front of us.
wrong on both counts.

maybe so but close to the mark

i will say they started rebuilding at exactly the same time as us and are now 4 yrs infront!  they have a firing and hard working midfield, a back six starting to hold their own and a very dangerous fwd line

we have none of those

Offline mightytiges

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Re: Hawks, Tigers take different roads (The Age)
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2007, 05:21:49 PM »
10 Hawk 23-24 year olds which form most of their core to our 3 + 1 rookie which are fringe players. The Hawks were ahead of us in 2004 and still are because they have that mid-age tier we lack.

Hawthorn - players used: 28

32: Crawford (5)
30: J.Smith, Vandenberg (1)
29: Dixon (5)
27: Croad (3)
26: Jacobs (4)
25: Bateman (3), Clarke (2)
24: Campbell (6), Guerra (6), Mitchell (6), Osbourne (5), Taylor (6), Williams (4)
23: Boyle (6), C.Brown (5), Ladson (5), Sewell (6)
22: Gilham (6), Hodge (6)
21: Dawson, Lewis (6), Little, McGlynn (6), Murphy (2), Thurgood (1), Young (5), Gibson#
20: Bailey, Franklin (6), Roughead (6), McEntee#
19: Birchall (6), Dowler, Ellis (5), T.Tuck
18: J.P.Kennedy, Morton, Renouf, Thorp, B.Collins#, Suckling#

Richmond - players used: 30

32: Richo (6)
31: Gaspar (5)
29: N.Brown, K.Johnson (6)
28: J.Bowden (6), Kingsley, Simmonds (4), Tivendale (5)
27: Knobel
26: Hall
25: P.Bowden (3), Coughlan, Newman (6), Pettifer (6), S.Tuck (6)
24: Hyde (6), Krakouer (4)
23: Moore (4), King# (3)
22: Hartigan, Polak (6), Schulz (6), Howat# (3)
21: Foley (6), Jackson (2), Pattison (3), Raines (6), Thursfield
20: Casserly, Deledio (6), Hughes (2), McGuane (6), Meyer (1), Polo (4), Tambling (6), White (1), Graham#
19: Oakley-Nicholls (1), Peterson
18: A.Collins, Connors, Edwards (2), Riewoldt, Clingan#

# - rookies
bold - played this year
red - long-term injured/retired
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Ramps

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Re: Hawks, Tigers take different roads (The Age)
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2007, 05:53:31 PM »

coz they started there rebuild 12 months after us and they are now 3 years in front of us.
wrong on both counts.

Bulldust...they started behind us and they are way way ahead of us. Whether we like it or not thats the fact of it.

letsgetiton!

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Re: Hawks, Tigers take different roads (The Age)
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2007, 05:56:17 PM »

coz they started there rebuild 12 months after us and they are now 3 years in front of us.
wrong on both counts.

Bulldust...they started behind us and they are way way ahead of us. Whether we like it or not thats the fact of it.

hey ramps,
dont upset gordon bennett, he knows it all!

Offline mightytiges

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Re: Hawks, Tigers take different roads (The Age)
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2007, 06:02:54 PM »

coz they started there rebuild 12 months after us and they are now 3 years in front of us.
wrong on both counts.

Bulldust...they started behind us and they are way way ahead of us. Whether we like it or not thats the fact of it.
The Hawks were ahead in terms of potential improvement from their list in the first 5 years, and on the park (we lost in R21, 2004 to them easily) and on the ladder. Our older players carried us in 2005 and to a lesser extent last year which pushed us ahead temporarily but now with injury and loss of any form they have fallen away leaving our youngsters to the wolves. The Hawks could fall back on a core group that are now hitting the right age and experience. We can't. We really have more in common with Carlton's list than Hawthorn's.
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Life goes on

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Re: Hawks, Tigers take different roads (The Age)
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2007, 06:28:06 PM »

coz they started there rebuild 12 months after us and they are now 3 years in front of us.
wrong on both counts.

Bulldust...they started behind us and they are way way ahead of us. Whether we like it or not thats the fact of it.

CORRECT!
They have a better list as they selected better players. Get over it!

Life goes on

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Re: Hawks, Tigers take different roads (The Age)
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2007, 06:49:17 PM »
10 Hawk 23-24 year olds which form most of their core to our 3 + 1 rookie which are fringe players. The Hawks were ahead of us in 2004 and still are because they have that mid-age tier we lack.

Hawthorn - players used: 28

32: Crawford (5)
30: J.Smith, Vandenberg (1)
29: Dixon (5)
27: Croad (3)
26: Jacobs (4)
25: Bateman (3), Clarke (2)
24: Campbell (6), Guerra (6), Mitchell (6), Osbourne (5), Taylor (6), Williams (4)
23: Boyle (6), C.Brown (5), Ladson (5), Sewell (6)
22: Gilham (6), Hodge (6)
21: Dawson, Lewis (6), Little, McGlynn (6), Murphy (2), Thurgood (1), Young (5), Gibson#
20: Bailey, Franklin (6), Roughead (6), McEntee#
19: Birchall (6), Dowler, Ellis (5), T.Tuck
18: J.P.Kennedy, Morton, Renouf, Thorp, B.Collins#, Suckling#

Richmond - players used: 30

32: Richo (6)
31: Gaspar (5)
29: N.Brown, K.Johnson (6)
28: J.Bowden (6), Kingsley, Simmonds (4), Tivendale (5)
27: Knobel
26: Hall
25: P.Bowden (3), Coughlan, Newman (6), Pettifer (6), S.Tuck (6)
24: Hyde (6), Krakouer (4)
23: Moore (4), King# (3)
22: Hartigan, Polak (6), Schulz (6), Howat# (3)
21: Foley (6), Jackson (2), Pattison (3), Raines (6), Thursfield
20: Casserly, Deledio (6), Hughes (2), McGuane (6), Meyer (1), Polo (4), Tambling (6), White (1), Graham#
19: Oakley-Nicholls (1), Peterson
18: A.Collins, Connors, Edwards (2), Riewoldt, Clingan#

# - rookies
bold - played this year
red - long-term injured/retired


You would find  that there wouldnt be many in our so-called core group that would get a game anywhere esle

Offline mightytiges

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Re: Hawks, Tigers take different roads (The Age)
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2007, 06:58:17 PM »
You would find  that there wouldnt be many in our so-called core group that would get a game anywhere esle
Yep! Only Joel and Simmo IMO. Further illustrates my point. The majority of our senior players aren't up to it and this is then putting undue pressure on our youngsters to make up the slack before they are ready to.
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Gordon Bennett

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Re: Hawks, Tigers take different roads (The Age)
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2007, 09:12:37 PM »

hey ramps,
dont upset gordon bennett, he knows it all!

It wouldn't take much to know more than you, X.  Your performances on here in recent weeks have exposed you as the most contradictory, illogical,wildly emotional,crass person on all tiger sites, with a stupidity that knows no bounds.

Ramps

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Re: Hawks, Tigers take different roads (The Age)
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2007, 09:45:56 PM »

hey ramps,
dont upset gordon bennett, he knows it all!

It wouldn't take much to know more than you, X.  Your performances on here in recent weeks have exposed you as the most contradictory, illogical,wildly emotional,crass person on all tiger sites, with a stupidity that knows no bounds.

Football is an emotional game Gentlemen ;D

Offline one-eyed

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Re: Hawks, Tigers take different roads (The Age)
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2007, 10:05:27 PM »
Football is an emotional game Gentlemen ;D

It is but that doesn't excuse personal jibes  :banghead. Let's stop it here! Back to the topic people.