Keeping the faith when it's tested

[mightytiges]

Our Club has always looked for the easy out and quick fix over the past 25 years and some still want us to go down that path again . If I hear another Richmond supporter get on the radio and say we've been rebuilding for the past 25 years I'll do this -> .

You can only rebuild when you bring through a large number of youngsters together. Prior to 2004 that was only done once in the last 25 years starting under KB.

IMO people severely underrate how decimated our list was at the end 2004. A list full of mid-age duds and little youth.

2004

Old:     8
Mid:    23
Youth: 9 + 2 rookies

Rucks:       3
Big Talls:    3 
Talls:          4
Tall Mids:    8 + 1 rookie
Mid Mids:   17
Small Mids: 4 + 2 rookies 

32: Campbell
31: D.Kellaway, Rogers
30: Stafford
29: Richo, A.Kellaway
28: Gaspar, Marsh
-------------------------
27: Blumfield, Chaffey
26: J.Bowden, Brown, Johnson, Fleming, Fletcher, Houlihan
25: Tivendale, Hilton
24: Hall, Morrison, Nicholls, Ottens
23: Tuck, Fiora, Dragga#
22: Coughlan, Hyde, Newman, Pettifer, Weller, Zantuck
-------------------------
21: Krakouer, Rodan
20: Moore#
19: Foley#, Schulz, Hartigan, Roach
18: Raines, Jackson, Archibald, Gilmour

Compare that to 2007 (age they'll be entering 2008)

Old:        7
Mid:       14 + 2 rookies (at least 5 of these to go come the end of the year)
Youth:    18 + 2 rookies

Rucks:       2 + 1 rookie
Big Talls:    4
Talls:          6
Tall Mids:  10
Mid Mids:  11 + 2 rookies
Small Mids: 6 + 1 rookie

32: Richo
29: J.Bowden, Brown, Johnson, Kingsley, Simmonds
28: Tivendale
---------------------
27: Hall, Knobel
26: Tuck, P.Bowden
25: Coughlan, Hyde, Newman, Pettifer
24: Krakouer
23: Moore, Polak, King#
22: Foley, Schulz, Hartigan, Howat#
---------------------
21: Raines, Jackson, Meyer, Pattison, Polo, Tambling, Thursfield
20: Casserly, Deledio, Hughes, McGuane, Peterson, White, Graham#
19: Collins, Connors, Edwards, JON, Riewoldt, Clingan# 

And some people say we were better off in 2004 ???

----------------------

Now of course not all the draftees will make it. In fact no matter which club almost half usually don't make it from each draft. Also all clubs make mistakes too. Hey the Eagles pick 5 in 2000 is now playing for Werribee reserves and only 3 first round draftees played in their premiership side last year. You only try to get more early picks because they have a higher probability of having long AFL careers and becoming star players. Simple risk analysis. You bring heaps of kids to keep your list balanced in the long run. In the past 2 and half years the number of youngsters on our list has doubled.

So being on the very conservative side, say the following "make it" from the past 3 drafts. 

2004: Lids, Tambo, Patto, Polo
2005: Foley, Thursfield
2006: Edwards, Connors, Polak

I still could include the likes of talls Hughes, Riewoldt, Graham also Casserly, Peterson plus maybe someone we've written off who may be a late developer. Also going the other way someone I've included might not make it for whatever reason. But for the point of this exercise say the above are the only ones to make it in years to come from our current crop of Plough's youngsters.

That's 10 from past 3 drafts plus possibly a Rainesy who'll be of similar age and either Petts, Newman and/or Cogs who'll be still around in their late 20s in 4 years time. Repeat the process for drafts 2007-09 plus some gains from trades and you'll form the basis of our 22 for the next decade where the above names will have come through together and will have played 100+ games as 22-25 year olds by then. That's the process we are going through now.

Plough and his 5 years may see it through (a la Mark Thompson) if the kids develop quickly and we find more make it than don't (a few clever trades and a smart drafting effort in 2007 would help too). Or he may become the sacrifical lamb (a la Ken Judge at the Eagles, Peter Schwab at Hawthorn) that will leave the next coach with a good young list on the cusp of hitting its prime with a few more additions. 

Whatever the case may be, the tantrums of the "faceless backroom boys" are best exposed and then ignored which is what March is rightly doing.

[Passionfruit]

Would be very surprised if Petts, Newman and Cogs were around in 4 years time.-would think Petts and Newman would be traded,if tradable that is.
Also Polo and Cogs were offered at trade by Miller during trade week last year, deal fell through when Cogs changed his mind and didnt want to go.

I reckon the question you must ask is how many current players would get a  game with say Geelong,? Answer, not many.

[{X}]

Would be very surprised if Petts, Newman and Cogs were around in 4 years time.-would think Petts and Newman would be traded,if tradable that is.
Also Polo and Cogs were offered at trade by Miller during trade week last year, deal fell through when Cogs changed his mind and didnt want to go.

I reckon the question you must ask is how many current players would get a  game with say Geelong,? Answer, not many.

in that case delist cogs! damaged goods. we have only had 1 yr out of him thus far.


keeping the faith

we have been all this time, we kept spud on for 5 yrs!!!!

but admitting that terry is not the right man 4 the job is not losing faith in the club, just the coach.

new coach , new hope , stronger faith

i know all about faith, im Catholic but never seen Geez

[bluey_21]

TOP POST MT 

wrong timing though, you were always going to get shouted down like what has already happened 

the responses by jack and X were pretty much as you predicted

Our Club has always looked for the easy out and quick fix over the past 25 years and some still want us to go down that path again Roll Eyes. If I hear another Richmond supporter get on the radio and say we've been rebuilding for the past 25 years I'll do this -> .

  any real suprise

[Fwoy3]

I reckon the question you must ask is how many current players would get a  game with say Geelong,? Answer, not many.

And last year, when Geelong finished below us and Bomber hung on to his job by the proverbials, how many Gelong players would have been offered a game in the West Coast line-up?

[{X}]

I reckon the question you must ask is how many current players would get a  game with say Geelong,? Answer, not many.

And last year, when Geelong finished below us and Bomber hung on to his job by the proverbials, how many Gelong players would have been offered a game in the West Coast line-up?

last yr we all know why geelong did not perform well! had nothing to do with their lack of talent and skill! u know that i know that we all know that!

[Hellenic Tiger]

Only time other than now that we were in a rebuilding phase in the last 25 years was under Bartlett and it was not until Swooper coached that we saw the fruits of those labours.

[Ramps]

Would be very surprised if Petts, Newman and Cogs were around in 4 years time.-would think Petts and Newman would be traded,if tradable that is.
Also Polo and Cogs were offered at trade by Miller during trade week last year, deal fell through when Cogs changed his mind and didnt want to go.

another bomb just dropped by Jacko.

So what we have is

Brett Deledio finding it hard to break tags
Richard Tambling really struggling
Danny Meyer really struggling
Adam Pattison who is caught between being a CHF and a Ruck
Dean Polo who has was offered up for trade last year

Good to see 5 out of the top 20 picks in 2004 really firing 

[tigersalive]

Would be very surprised if Petts, Newman and Cogs were around in 4 years time.-would think Petts and Newman would be traded,if tradable that is.
Also Polo and Cogs were offered at trade by Miller during trade week last year, deal fell through when Cogs changed his mind and didnt want to go.

I reckon the question you must ask is how many current players would get a  game with say Geelong,? Answer, not many.

in that case delist cogs! damaged goods. we have only had 1 yr out of him thus far.

Delist him because he has the passion to stay at Richmond??

You idiot.

[{X}]

Would be very surprised if Petts, Newman and Cogs were around in 4 years time.-would think Petts and Newman would be traded,if tradable that is.
Also Polo and Cogs were offered at trade by Miller during trade week last year, deal fell through when Cogs changed his mind and didnt want to go.

I reckon the question you must ask is how many current players would get a  game with say Geelong,? Answer, not many.

in that case delist cogs! damaged goods. we have only had 1 yr out of him thus far.

Delist him because he has the passion to stay at Richmond??

You idiot.

you idiot!

he has no passion for teh rfc, just the pay packet he gets just for watching on the sidelines

you idiot

he does not want to leave because elsewhere, he would not get the same money and elsewhere , when he is fit, would struggle to make a top 22 on a list

who is the idiot!!!

not me!

[Tigermonk]

problem Richmond got with blooding young players is they sit on the bench too much & need more time playing at senior level to get a grasp on the level
the next week they find themselves dropped & thats not good coaching at blooding players you must be able to provide at least serveral matches for the player to get over nerves & to set himself for the pace of the level of football required
AFL level is so much quicker than VFL level the stamina & skill required & mentality is a huge difference
some TAC U18 players get dropped back to thier parent clubs at senior level even that they never played seniors in thier life instead of going back to U18s or thirds at the parent club just to keep them at pace with TAC level
has anyone checked game time on ground for say Carlton, Hawthorn, drafts compared to the tigers it would be nice to see the comparison cause l aint got the time really to go into checking

[tigersalive]

Would be very surprised if Petts, Newman and Cogs were around in 4 years time.-would think Petts and Newman would be traded,if tradable that is.
Also Polo and Cogs were offered at trade by Miller during trade week last year, deal fell through when Cogs changed his mind and didnt want to go.

I reckon the question you must ask is how many current players would get a  game with say Geelong,? Answer, not many.

in that case delist cogs! damaged goods. we have only had 1 yr out of him thus far.

Delist him because he has the passion to stay at Richmond??

You idiot.

you idiot!

he has no passion for teh rfc, just the pay packet he gets just for watching on the sidelines

you idiot

he does not want to leave because elsewhere, he would not get the same money and elsewhere , when he is fit, would struggle to make a top 22 on a list

who is the idiot!!!

not me!

I'd dignify that with a real response but it's like talking to a 3 year old.

[mightytiges]

Would be very surprised if Petts, Newman and Cogs were around in 4 years time.-would think Petts and Newman would be traded,if tradable that is.

I was thinking one would still be around but yeah fair comment.

Also Polo and Cogs were offered at trade by Miller during trade week last year, deal fell through when Cogs changed his mind and didnt want to go.

The names were more an example. Only Foley currently is anywhere near the level we should demand.

I reckon the question you must ask is how many current players would get a  game with say Geelong,? Answer, not many.

True but Geelong are in flag mode. Their core senior players which make up most of the side have had 6-8 years of jelling as a unit. The team footy they are playing is so superior to anyone else this year it's not funny. Brilliant stuff. Bomber Thompson's first 4 years though saw Geelong finish 8th, 12th, 9th, 12th.

[mightytiges]

Would be very surprised if Petts, Newman and Cogs were around in 4 years time.-would think Petts and Newman would be traded,if tradable that is.
Also Polo and Cogs were offered at trade by Miller during trade week last year, deal fell through when Cogs changed his mind and didnt want to go.

another bomb just dropped by Jacko.

So what we have is

Brett Deledio finding it hard to break tags
Richard Tambling really struggling
Danny Meyer really struggling
Adam Pattison who is caught between being a CHF and a Ruck
Dean Polo who has was offered up for trade last year

Good to see 5 out of the top 20 picks in 2004 really firing 

This is my point of bringing through a large number of kids. There is no rule that says every kid will make it no matter what pick they are picked up with. One injury could wipe them out. You only go for earlier picks because they have a much stronger chance of making it and having superior ability. It's playing the percentages. Richmond (supporters) IMO place too much pressure on high draft picks. Once in the door every kid should be treated the same and their junior footy and draft record becomes irrelevant. Bring through the kids together so they jell as a unit and work on say at least 3 a year making AFL grade.

[WilliamPowell]

You can only rebuild when you bring through a large number of youngsters together. Prior to 2004 that was only done once in the last 25 years starting under KB.

Exactly MT and I'm (for one) looking forward to it.

Whatever the case may be, the tantrums of the "faceless backroom boys" are best exposed and then ignored which is what March is rightly doing.