Our List's future window of success?

[Francois Jackson]

mighty tiges you seem to be well educated about the RFC, let me ask you this if i may..

out of the senior group within the age group 23 onwards who do you think will help us win a flag in the near future or make the finals.

Outside of browny, bowden, richo, a fit simmo, petts, tucky. i struggle to find anymore i really dont.
Do we have to wait till the group under 23 reach 100-150 games before we see success. I think so cause from where i stand our senior core is simply not good enough.

[mightytiges]

mighty tiges you seem to be well educated about the RFC, let me ask you this if i may..

out of the senior group within the age group 23 onwards who do you think will help us win a flag in the near future or make the finals.

Outside of browny, bowden, richo, a fit simmo, petts, tucky. i struggle to find anymore i really dont.
Do we have to wait till the group under 23 reach 100-150 games before we see success. I think so cause from where i stand our senior core is simply not good enough.

Newy could be the other one 23 onwards although I know someone here with the initials W and P who may disagree  . Tucky's disposal would put question marks on him. Only Browny at full fitness would be A-grade quality of our 23+ group. Simmo is a decent ruckman (once again fully fit). We have 14 Tigers 23+ and out of them I'd reckon 2-3 won't be at Punt Road by the end of the month and six are 28 or older. We're pretty thin in the 23+ group.

When Plough first took over, the club hoped to get an initial short finals window with Richo, Joel, Sugar, Browny and co. That should have been around 2008-9. This would be followed by a more sustained finals window from 2011 onwards. IMO the first window looks closed even before it's been opened. So yeah we may have to wait till the group under 23 reach 100-150 games before we see any success.

As much as some people think the 2011 comment was pulled out of Plough's proverbial, he's not far off mark IMO. Currently we have 19 Tigers plus 2 rookies 21 years old or younger. That's half the list. 3-4 more years would see them hitting the prime age bracket together. You would hope by then the list is balanced (right number and spread of rucks, KPPs, mids) and has depth in terms of quality.

[one-eyed]

List breakdown:

Ages (at 01/01/2008)

32: Richo
29: J.Bowden, Brown, Johnson, Simmonds
28: Tivendale
---------------------
27: -
26: Tuck, P.Bowden
25: Coughlan, Hyde, Newman, Pettifer
24: Krakouer, McMahon
23: Moore, Polak, King#
---------------------
22: Foley, Schulz, Hartigan, Howat#
21: Raines, Jackson, Meyer, Pattison, Polo, Tambling, Thursfield
20: Casserly, Deledio, Hughes, McGuane, Morton, Peterson, White, Graham#
19: Collins, Connors, Edwards, JON, Riewoldt, Clingan#


Oldies:   (28+)     6
Mids:   (23-27)     9 + 1 rookie
Youth: (17-22)    23 + 3 rookies


Player types based on height

Rucks:    (>198)      2   - Simmonds, Graham#
Big Talls: (194-198)  3   - Richo, Pattison, Polak
Talls:       (190-193)  6   - Thursfield, McGuane, Hughes, Schulz, P.Bowden, Riewoldt
Tall Mids: (186-189) 11   - J.Bowden, Casserly, Deledio, Jackson, Johnson, Cogs, Hyde, Moore, Oakley-Nicholls, Polo, Tuck   
Mid Mids: (180-185) 15   - Brown, Collins, Connors, Edwards, McMahon, Meyer, Morton, Newman, Peterson, Pettifer, Raines, Tambling, Tivendale, Howat#, Clingan#
Small Mids (<180): 5   - Foley, Hartigan, Krakouer, White, King#

[Tigermonk]

l could chop half that list for basic skill errors & poor decision making   
there goes most of your core players including the captain & coach 

[Francois Jackson]

id have to agree with u.
id say our captain is one area thats gotta improve.
he simply doesnt lead by example, ever!!his skill level is one of the bottom 5 at the club in my opinion
at least when we were down the bottom i could watch campbell and knighter lead the way with skill and leadership.

what does sugar bring to this club and can anyone actually see this man holding the premiership cup on the last day of september.
id say warney has a better chance of captaining our side than that ever happening.

[HKTiger]

MT and D161,

I think you've got to add a fit Mark Coughlan into that 23+ group as well.  Whilst it is an "if", but if he gets back to anywhere near his early 2005 form (38 possessions vs Carlton whilst giving a firing Kouta an absolute bath) then we have an intense, inside player who tackles, gets the ball, gives off, plays taller than his 188cm, etc.  He adds a dimension that we have lacked (very sorely) since his OP and subsequent knee reco(s).

He adds a dimension to the list that is not covered by height and weight statistics.

[Francois Jackson]

MT and D161,

I think you've got to add a fit Mark Coughlan into that 23+ group as well.  Whilst it is an "if", but if he gets back to anywhere near his early 2005 form (38 possessions vs Carlton whilst giving a firing Kouta an absolute bath) then we have an intense, inside player who tackles, gets the ball, gives off, plays taller than his 188cm, etc.  He adds a dimension that we have lacked (very sorely) since his OP and subsequent knee reco(s).

He adds a dimension to the list that is not covered by height and weight statistics.

u r so right mate.
cogs at his best is better than anyone on this list we currently have.
He is what we need. forget about lids, sugar, petts, tambling.
this guy in form would be the best addition we could get.

[mightytiges]

Now compare it to the current best in Geelong and spot the difference. Their first rebuilding draft was 1999 and those draftees are now 25-26 years old. Geelong also have a even spread of talls and smalls and only 3 of their premiership were U23 at the time of Grand Final.

30: Milburn
29: Harley
28: King, Mooney, Scarlett
-------------------------------
27: Ottens, Wojcinski
26: Enright, Ling
25: Chapman, Corey, J.Hunt, Rooke, D.Johnson
24: Egan, Gardiner, S.Hunt, S.Johnson, Playfair
23: G.Ablett, Bartel, Byrnes, Callan, Kelly, Mackie, Lonergan, Reynolds#
-------------------------------
22: Spencer, Stokes, Tenace, Davenport
21: N.Ablett, Blake, Prismall
20: Gamble, Owen, Grima#
19: Djekkura, Hawkins, Hogan, Selwood, Varcoe, West, Bedford# 

Bold - Premiership team.
red - traded/delisted.

Oldies:   (28+)     5
Mids:   (23-27)   20 + 2 rookies
Youth: (17-22)    14 + 3 rookies

Rucks:    (>198)       3 - Blake, King, Ottens
Big Talls: (194-198)  8 - N.Ablett, Egan, Hawkins, Mooney, Playfair, Spencer, West, Lonergan#
Talls:       (190-193)  7 - Corey, Gardiner, Harley, S.Hunt, Mackie, Scarlett, Grima#
Tall Mids: (186-189)  9 - Bartel, Enright, S.Johnson, Ling, Milburn, Owen, Prismall, Rooke, Reynolds# 
Mid Mids: (180-185) 13  - G.Ablett, Callan, Gamble, Hogan, J.Hunt, D.Johnson, Kelly, Selwood, Tenace, Varcoe, Wojcinski, Bedford#, Davenport#,   
Small Mids (<180):   4  - Byrnes, Chapman, Djerrkura, [/b]Stokes[/b]

[jezza]

Couldn't be a better description of where we're at and where we need to get to so that we can be a competitive side again.

[mightytiges]

MT and D161,

I think you've got to add a fit Mark Coughlan into that 23+ group as well.  Whilst it is an "if", but if he gets back to anywhere near his early 2005 form (38 possessions vs Carlton whilst giving a firing Kouta an absolute bath) then we have an intense, inside player who tackles, gets the ball, gives off, plays taller than his 188cm, etc.  He adds a dimension that we have lacked (very sorely) since his OP and subsequent knee reco(s).

He adds a dimension to the list that is not covered by height and weight statistics.

u r so right mate.
cogs at his best is better than anyone on this list we currently have.
He is what we need. forget about lids, sugar, petts, tambling.
this guy in form would be the best addition we could get.

The problem with Cogs is he is a massive "if". I'd rather treat him at the moment as a bonus if he ever does make it back. The last time I saw him at training he was moving freely but I don't want to get my hopes up only to see his body fail him for the last time. Don't forget even before he did his knee the first time he was struggling to kick over 40m due to the OP. It'll be a long way back for Cogs but if anyone can do it it'll be him. You could sense his determination in his body language at training.

[mightytiges]

The delistings today mean 60% of our list is 22 years old or younger and 70% 23 or under. Here's the updated breakdown of our list:

(Ages at 01/01/2008)

32: Richo
29: J.Bowden, Brown, Johnson, Simmonds
28: Tivendale
---------------------
27: -
26: Tuck
25: Coughlan, Hyde, Newman, Pettifer
24: McMahon
23: Moore, Polak, King
---------------------
22: Foley, Schulz, Howat#
21: Raines, Jackson, Meyer, Pattison, Polo, Tambling, Thursfield
20: Casserly, Deledio, Hughes, McGuane, Morton, Peterson, White, Graham
19: Collins, Connors, Edwards, JON, Riewoldt


Oldies:   (28+)     6
Mids:   (23-27)     9
Youth: (17-22)    22 + 1 rookie


Rucks:    (>198)      2   - Simmonds, Graham
Big Talls: (194-198)  3   - Richo, Pattison, Polak
Talls:       (190-193)  5   - Thursfield, McGuane, Hughes, Schulz, Riewoldt
Tall Mids: (186-189) 11   - J.Bowden, Casserly, Deledio, Jackson, Johnson, Cogs, Hyde, Moore, Oakley-Nicholls, Polo, Tuck   
Mid Mids: (180-185) 14   - Brown, Collins, Connors, Edwards, McMahon, Meyer, Morton, Newman, Peterson, Pettifer, Raines, Tambling, Tivendale, Howat#
Small Mids (<180): 3   - Foley, White, King