Author Topic: Time to start again!  (Read 7877 times)

Hellenic Tiger

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Re: Time to start again!
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2008, 10:03:24 PM »
Another criticism of Wallace he sits there and talks about how young OUR LIST IS. Yet every week Carlton Collingwood Melbourne Essendon and other clubs keep on debuting players. We don't. We promote blokes like Tivvers Hyde etc whilst guys like Riewoldt Hughes Polo Rance Connors McGuane sit and run around in the 2's for forever and a day with very limited senior time before they get demoted again. No structure for quick nurturing at our club blokes like Rioli at Hawthorn Collingwood youngsters last year Brisbane youngsters get thrown in the deep end and get match hardened conditionally in game circumstances very quickly whilst our youngsters perform well at Coburg but struggle excessively at Richmond when they get 20-30 mins a game to show their wares. Again this may be the Deledio Franklin argument but even if we had got Franklin or Roughhead they would be duds at our club b/c the nurturing of young players is poor whereas other clubs who are more successful and a prepard to have short term pain for long term gain like Hawthorn Pies Brissy Geelong Port have excelled at this. The fish rots at the head and unfortunantely Miller and Wallace have overseen this poor nurturing of youngsters and have followed up the great failures Spud and his predecessors have given us. Wallace promised us 16 goals a game a skillful side a competitive side at the end of his five year tenure. Right now all he has done is he has a young list but he persists on playing guys who have had their chance at this level and furthermore we will be worse off when blokes like Richo Bowden go as they play in key positions with no one groomed from the youngsters to take over as their footy will have gone stagnant and backwards with this promotion demotion from Coburg to Richmond and no consistency. It is unfortunate that the club in theory has made some good decisions but in practice is still committing the same sins and failing in much the same way previous tenures have. I think Terry needs to bite the bullet and bite it now and he needs to swallow his pride. It is obvious his plans are not working and that the footy club is neither here nor there as there is no point having a young list when you don't play the kids then to suplement that you give up picks for players who were going to get delisted from their original clubs anyway and when you have the opportunity to play the kids you don't and you re instate seasoned players who never got the job done in the first place.
Wallet heard of Whitney Houston and her song greatest love of all? Just listen to the words briefly Hopkinsville Suntanned Goblin

I Believe that Children Are our future
Teach them well and let them lead the way
Show them all the beauty they posses inside.
Give them a sense of pride
to make it easier
Let the players laughter
remind us all of how good we could be.

But you told us long ago
in 2011 the other teams will be in our shadow
but we'll fail we won't succeed
and you  and Miller have let the club bleed
No matter what you do to me
Just resign and leave with dignity

Because the greatest, failure is happening to me
The greatest failure is plain there for all to see

the greatest failure since nine teen eiiiiiiiiighty three.


Offline Stripes

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Re: Time to start again!
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2008, 10:07:09 PM »
If we don't watch out everyone will be jumping off the bandwagon. Oh sorry we don't have a band and come to think of it we don't have a wagon. So what can they jump off ?
What I saw was a bunch of men and boys running around with no direction. When they kicked it was to no one or the opposition. It was laughable. But I wasn't laughing I was swearing at the box.
Is this a repeat of Danny Frawley, I hope not. Both promised us the world and deliver us an empty walet while there's has got bigger. we have to start to pay these players on a performance bacis, and I bet then we might get more out of some.
They better do something better next week or we will start to loose more than fringe supporters. I know I will stay no matter what. But its hard to walk about wear our gear week in and out with a team that has promise but shows nothing.
And I truely think this is coming from two places. One is the coach and the other is the captain. If neither one of these can lead the way then there should be a revolt and kick them both out and get some pr#ck in that can lead us to a win.
 :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead

Please don't liken TW to Frawley! Spud has ripped the heat out of our list (23 - 27 year old 'premiership age' players) and TW is at least trying to fix it. Whether he can coach or not (which I think he can btw) he has decided to take the tough path and rebuild regardless of the threat to his reputation and future chance for employment. Love him or hate him (Jackstar I'm talking to you here :)) you have to support at least what he is trying to achieve.

Rebuilding takes time especially when you senior players are either continuously injured, underperforming or have a bad attitude. :(

Stripes

Offline Stripes

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Re: Time to start again!
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2008, 10:11:51 PM »
Another criticism of Wallace he sits there and talks about how young OUR LIST IS. Yet every week Carlton Collingwood Melbourne Essendon and other clubs keep on debuting players. We don't. We promote blokes like Tivvers Hyde etc whilst guys like Riewoldt Hughes Polo Rance Connors McGuane sit and run around in the 2's for forever and a day with very limited senior time before they get demoted again. No structure for quick nurturing at our club blokes like Rioli at Hawthorn Collingwood youngsters last year Brisbane youngsters get thrown in the deep end and get match hardened conditionally in game circumstances very quickly whilst our youngsters perform well at Coburg but struggle excessively at Richmond when they get 20-30 mins a game to show their wares. Again this may be the Deledio Franklin argument but even if we had got Franklin or Roughhead they would be duds at our club b/c the nurturing of young players is poor whereas other clubs who are more successful and a prepard to have short term pain for long term gain like Hawthorn Pies Brissy Geelong Port have excelled at this. The fish rots at the head and unfortunantely Miller and Wallace have overseen this poor nurturing of youngsters and have followed up the great failures Spud and his predecessors have given us. Wallace promised us 16 goals a game a skillful side a competitive side at the end of his five year tenure. Right now all he has done is he has a young list but he persists on playing guys who have had their chance at this level and furthermore we will be worse off when blokes like Richo Bowden go as they play in key positions with no one groomed from the youngsters to take over as their footy will have gone stagnant and backwards with this promotion demotion from Coburg to Richmond and no consistency. It is unfortunate that the club in theory has made some good decisions but in practice is still committing the same sins and failing in much the same way previous tenures have. I think Terry needs to bite the bullet and bite it now and he needs to swallow his pride. It is obvious his plans are not working and that the footy club is neither here nor there as there is no point having a young list when you don't play the kids then to suplement that you give up picks for players who were going to get delisted from their original clubs anyway and when you have the opportunity to play the kids you don't and you re instate seasoned players who never got the job done in the first place.
Wallet heard of Whitney Houston and her song greatest love of all? Just listen to the words briefly Hopkinsville Suntanned Goblin

I Believe that Children Are our future
Teach them well and let them lead the way
Show them all the beauty they posses inside.
Give them a sense of pride
to make it easier
Let the players laughter
remind us all of how good we could be.

But you told us long ago
in 2011 the other teams will be in our shadow
but we'll fail we won't succeed
and you  and Miller have let the club bleed
No matter what you do to me
Just resign and leave with dignity

Because the greatest, failure is happening to me
The greatest failure is plain there for all to see

the greatest failure since nine teen eiiiiiiiiighty three.



I'm guessing you didn't read my last post Hellenic Tiger 74 ?!  ???

Stripes

Offline 1980

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Re: Time to start again!
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2008, 10:30:38 PM »
If we don't watch out everyone will be jumping off the bandwagon. Oh sorry we don't have a band and come to think of it we don't have a wagon. So what can they jump off ?
What I saw was a bunch of men and boys running around with no direction. When they kicked it was to no one or the opposition. It was laughable. But I wasn't laughing I was swearing at the box.
Is this a repeat of Danny Frawley, I hope not. Both promised us the world and deliver us an empty walet while there's has got bigger. we have to start to pay these players on a performance bacis, and I bet then we might get more out of some.
They better do something better next week or we will start to loose more than fringe supporters. I know I will stay no matter what. But its hard to walk about wear our gear week in and out with a team that has promise but shows nothing.
And I truely think this is coming from two places. One is the coach and the other is the captain. If neither one of these can lead the way then there should be a revolt and kick them both out and get some pr#ck in that can lead us to a win.
 :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead

Please don't liken TW to Frawley! Spud has ripped the heat out of our list (23 - 27 year old 'premiership age' players) and TW is at least trying to fix it. Whether he can coach or not (which I think he can btw) he has decided to take the tough path and rebuild regardless of the threat to his reputation and future chance for employment. Love him or hate him (Jackstar I'm talking to you here :)) you have to support at least what he is trying to achieve.

Rebuilding takes time especially when you senior players are either continuously injured, underperforming or have a bad attitude. :(

Stripes

That argument doesnt cut it this season. This ia Wallace's 4th year in charge.

You cant look at our rebuilding in isolation. The Hawks rebuilt and were a top 4 side in Clarkson's 3rd season. Did he get rid of Thompson and Hay or was it someone else?

Dod it take Laidely 10 years to rebuild the Roos into a top 4 side. How long did it take Roos at the Swans? Wallace may claim some credit, but Eade has the Dogs going in the right direction and he started coaching them same year as Wallace coached us

3 years to undo Frawley's damage I buy. We need to be making progress this season or there will be a lot more agreeing with Jackster by Round 12 that Wallace aint the man for the job.

Its too late to undoe it now and we need to see it through under Wallace and the 5 year plan he promised. But the way its going so far this season, we will need to start planning for the post Wallace era.


Hellenic Tiger

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Re: Time to start again!
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2008, 10:37:44 PM »
No Stripes I read it and you make some very valid points especially the Bowden being a cancer now that struck a raw nerve with me and I totally agree with you.
I just think the kids need to be thrown into the deep end, If Wallace gets sacked either tomorrow morning in the pre season break or at the end of the year the kids will still have pressure on them and they will need to perform to keep their AFL careers. I think backs to the wall pressure with young kids provides a steep learning curve and a hardening in terms of match conditions. It will be sink or swim but if these kids can get through this acid test then they have the world at their feet.
Sure older blokes like Richo and co need to go also so that we have to force these kids to play.
Beacause these older players are past their best and some of them are cancers it is best to let these kids loose on their own rather than learning unsavoury bad habits from those so called cancerous individuals. So I guess we have a difference in opinion there Stripes from some of your other posts.
Read your post Stripes as I read all your posts as you always have incisive and valid points with honorable intentions regarding the RFC as we all do.  :thumbsup We all share the same frustrations. :banghead

Ox

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Re: Time to start again!
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2008, 02:05:08 AM »
sack the senior group , then see about wallce

miller must be sacked asap

genius

Offline tiogar

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Re: Time to start again!
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2008, 03:25:58 AM »
Monday morning. Not feeling too clever. Depressed and TBH if there was a home game next week I'd probably give it a miss. Richmond FC are going nowhere and its the same old story. I don't know what to do. I should be resting up for work.

Moi

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Re: Time to start again!
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2008, 05:16:42 AM »
At least i wouldnt walk around with a polo top over my casual clothes as I seen today. Oh well, at least he was showing his colours I suppose.
Exactly.
What will you pick on next lol

That top looked terrible I have to admit, but if he was willing to fail in the fashion stakes just so he can show his support for the club, can't be that bad.
Shows you how long I haven't hung around the club - didn't even know who he was  :lol  And I sat with him and his lovely wife all day - luckily I don't bag the club like some, otherwise I might be in a bit of trouble.


Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: Time to start again!
« Reply #38 on: April 07, 2008, 06:56:58 AM »
WP , one thing about me, i am a good listening.i dont miss anything, lol ;)

Listening.... gotcha

Either do I ;) believe me either do I :thumbsup

"Oh yes I am a dreamer, I still see us flying high!"

from the song "Don't Walk Away" by Pat Benatar 1988 (Wide Awake In Dreamland)

Offline Stripes

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Re: Time to start again!
« Reply #39 on: April 07, 2008, 08:55:16 AM »
No Stripes I read it and you make some very valid points especially the Bowden being a cancer now that struck a raw nerve with me and I totally agree with you.
I just think the kids need to be thrown into the deep end, If Wallace gets sacked either tomorrow morning in the pre season break or at the end of the year the kids will still have pressure on them and they will need to perform to keep their AFL careers. I think backs to the wall pressure with young kids provides a steep learning curve and a hardening in terms of match conditions. It will be sink or swim but if these kids can get through this acid test then they have the world at their feet.
Sure older blokes like Richo and co need to go also so that we have to force these kids to play.
Beacause these older players are past their best and some of them are cancers it is best to let these kids loose on their own rather than learning unsavoury bad habits from those so called cancerous individuals. So I guess we have a difference in opinion there Stripes from some of your other posts.
Read your post Stripes as I read all your posts as you always have incisive and valid points with honorable intentions regarding the RFC as we all do.  :thumbsup We all share the same frustrations. :banghead

I was probably a bit harsh with the 'cancer' label but I'm glad you understood the reference.

Yes I do share many of your frustrations about the players, style of play and even TW but I also don't want to go down any path that would potentially damage our future success just because of those frustrations.

Our young players are developing and are having to absorb the pressure much earlier than they would have in other teams. Whether we have TW at the helm or another coach we still have at least two years of pain ahead of us based on our list development at the moment.

Bushranger you mentioned many other clubs whose coaches have been able to 'rebuild' quickly. This is an illusion. They had the senior and mid-age players there already particularly the Roos, Dogs and Hawthorn. We don't. Without a group of mid-age or 'premiershipship age' players in a side they will crumble.

When TW first came on the seen he was able to motivate our senior players to play fair above their normal output. This is why we had immediate success. Now that they are aging, getting injured and losing motivation in some instances more and more of the load is having to be absorbed by our youth who, plain and simply, are not ready to shoulder that burden. The proof of that is in the results.

I am just as frustrated and angry as the rest of you about our current plight and am sick of waiting for success but unfortunately the facts are there - until we have enough players in that goldern age bracket we can expect more results like Sundays.

The worst thing for me is as our senior players drop off over the next 2 to 3 seasons unless our younger players can make a huge leap we will actually get worse before we suddenly get better.

2009 may be even be optomistic but I expect us to make the finals in 2010 and grow from then on. Then all of a sudden a new recruits will be superstars because they will have the same pressure as other clubs.

Oh to dream...

Stripes

Tigermonk

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Re: Time to start again!
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2008, 10:21:53 AM »
Like it or not, 98% of what Jackstar says is the truth. One thing he is wrong about though is round 12. It'll be sooner than that  :lol

We could do worse than get Sheedy, he might bring in some old tiger passion (a la Northey) and give us a simple but effective gameplan.

Collingwood has no real star power, Cloke, Pendlebury and Thomas are on the way. You know what they do have, stability. If Malthouse needs a backman, ruckman (Wood), small forward (Medhurst), he will get them. Then he will keep them in that spot, if they're no good there he doesn't shuffle them about, he drops them, thing is Collingwood develop their guys that well that anyone can slot into that team and do a job. I think that comes down to the senior players as well, we have senior players, but they are clowns.


yep all there young guns spanked us,  while our so called star draft picks walked
Richmond development has been poor standard for a decade, a club thats lives in the past while every other club passes it

Offline wayne

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Re: Time to start again!
« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2008, 10:25:06 AM »
It was interesting reading a piece on a rival website.

It mentioned that Wallace inherited a team which had played finals. He then lead them to 3rd, 3rd, 6th, 8th, 10th, 13th. They got worse and worse every year.
And you may not think I care for you
When you know down inside that I really do

Offline Stripes

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Re: Time to start again!
« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2008, 01:00:56 PM »
Thats because he lost half his football department due to financial reductions.The next coach took the team to the basement and hung there for years until Eade was employed with the Dogs admin learning from their previous financial blunder. You can't hope to compete against other clubs who have double the coaches and support.

In fact TW left the Dogs for that reason more than any other.

Eade inherited TW recruits  :thumbsup while TW inherited Spuds :help.

Interesting figures all the same.  ???

Stripes


FooffooValve

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Re: Time to start again!
« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2008, 03:05:46 PM »
No point starting again if we continue our utterly disgraceful history of first round draft picking. It's been done to death I know, but:

Ottens (gone)
Fiora (gone)
Pettifer (ordinary)
Oakley-Nicholls (who?)
Meyer  ???
Patterson (might be an average ruckman)
Tambling (gawd)
Deledio (might be OK one day)
Who have I missed?

Don't hold your breath on Cotchin if that group is anything to go by.



Tigermonk

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Re: Time to start again!
« Reply #44 on: April 07, 2008, 03:26:23 PM »
No point starting again if we continue our utterly disgraceful history of first round draft picking. It's been done to death I know, but:

Ottens (gone)
Fiora (gone)
Pettifer (ordinary)
Oakley-Nicholls (who?)
Meyer  ???
Patterson (might be an average ruckman)
Tambling (gawd)
Deledio (might be OK one day)
Who have I missed?

Don't hold your breath on Cotchin if that group is anything to go by.




l reckon Patto can play ok for his size & is a great 2nd Ruckman