Author Topic: Our ruckwork  (Read 1861 times)

Offline one-eyed

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Our ruckwork
« on: June 02, 2008, 03:03:15 PM »
Interesting revisiting Healy's article from Friday about ruckwork dying given we've been pumped in the hitouts most weeks and got absolutely smashed at the centre clearances by the Swans. A combo of Simmo and Patto not neutralising Everitt and Jolly's tapwork and our mids being crap yesterday at reading the opposition ruckmen and not getting their hands on the footy.

Most premiership sides of recent times have had a quality ruck duo which is something we don't have at the moment.
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The great ruck myth
Gerard Healy
Friday, May 30, 2008

RUCKWORK is dying. When rovers were given armchair rides by legends John Nicholls and Polly Farmer in the 1960s and ‘70s, the craft of ruckwork was celebrated.

And ruckmen were rightly lauded as lions who ruled the football jungle.

But research shows that in today’s football, despite what we are continually told, it is a very different story.

For many reasons, including defensive strategies of coaches at stoppages, the effectiveness of ruckwork is more myth than reality today.

FACT

Let’s start by looking at some facts and the most compelling of all is that only 22 per cent of hitouts go to advantage across the competition.

ON average only one in five, at most, of the clearances in football can be in any way attributed to ruckmen, according to the AFL’s official stats provider Champion Data.

You can argue the merits of the definition - a successful hitout is classed as one that goes to a teammate who is able to get a possession - but it’s not going to change the fact that this figure - one in five - is almost a knockout blow for those who believe the ruckwork myth.

And that is without even trying to estimate how many “hitouts to advantage” are the work of the clearance player who turns a non-directed tap into a first possession.

If you are still seduced by the ruckwork myth, consider the two key jobs of the ruckman at a contest: winning the tap and then successfully directing it. Of the 523 ruck contests the best tap ruckman has competed in this season, he achieved both objectives just 71 times.

DEAN COX

WEST Coast ruckman Dean Cox, the best big man we’ve seen possibly since Simon Madden, would command a $1 million salary if he was on the open market, but how much of his value can be assigned to ruckwork?

In 2008 Cox has won a hitout to advantage from 10.3 per cent of his ruck contests.

Of major interest, though, is the fact that this figure is 25 per cent down on his average from 2003-07 when he had Chris Judd, Ben Cousins and Daniel Kerr at his feet.

This suggests a significant proportion of successful hitouts are dependent on the receiver and not the provider.

AARON SANDILANDS

SOME say the tallest man in the game hasn’t delivered, but, in the ruck alone he is playing at All-Australian standard this year. For the record only - for this statistic is the most useless one in the game - he’s had 74 more hitouts than anyone else in the competition.

But so what - who cares which ruckman gets their hand on the ball first if it doesn’t go anywhere?

It’s value is only that it points to the potential of the man. More important is his 22 more hitouts to advantage than anyone else in the competition - without question, he has done his job.

But the most damning stat in football right now, and one of the core reasons the Dockers are having the problems they are, is that despite Sandilands’ dominance, they are the worst team in the game at clearances.

FACT

Fremantle has won the hitouts in every game but has lost the clearances in every game.

THIS is an indictment on the Dockers’ clearance players and their coaches, and it simply has to be addressed before the year is out.

It is also a strong indicator that ruck efficiency is about a marriage of two equal halves, not the master-servant relationship that is usually portrayed.

Sandilands is the one man who could single-handedly return ruckwork to its former significance, but only if those around him - on and off the field - better utilise this resource.

BRAD OTTENS

OTTENS, back in the Geelong team tomorrow, was given enormous credit for his Grand Final ruck dominance, but it was perception, not reality.

He played extremely well, but it had little to do with his hitouts or traditional ruckwork.

FACT

Brad Ottens had 19 hitouts in the GF - but not one to advantage, according to the research that requires the tap to result in a possession and disposal by a teammate.

THERE were countless assessments of how Ottens and Steven King dominated the ruck over Brendon Lade and Dean Brogan, but that’s not what the numbers tell us.

What the Geelong pair did do was play well around the ground and at stoppages, nullifying a potential advantage of Port Adelaide and providing their clearance players with a neutral playing field.

And as far as ruckwork goes that’s all you really need or want—a competitive effort the gives you an even chance at ground level.

TROY SIMMONDS

THAT’S exactly what you get from the Tigers’ ruckman, who is flying again this year. He rarely wins a tap to advantage—just one in 10—but neither do his opponents.

He jumps early and hopes to neutralise bigger ruckmen, then works at getting the clearance himself.

Ben Hudson works along similar lines at the Bulldogs, and it’s worth noting that in terms of scores from clearances—a more effective measurement than simple clearances—the Tigers rank well above their standing on the ladder and the Bulldogs are No. 2 in the competition.

So, just where does ruckwork fit into the scheme of things, given that so much time, effort and money is put into gaining an advantage there.

In reality there is very little difference between ruckmen in their tapwork, and their influence at stoppages ranks a distance third behind clearance players and random influences, including the third man up.

And that’s not surprising, given the changes to the game.


SAM NEWMAN

NEWMAN was the first to teach ruckwork as a science and worked with Simon Madden to add the science of angles and positioning to Madden’s enormous talent to dominate the game.

But everyone now has the same information, and ruck coaches teach the same theory, so any advantage has been largely neutralised.

We are left too often with a stalemate in which ruckmen either link arms and wrestle to no conclusion at boundary throw-ins or, limited by the centre circle, jump early and often don’t even touch the ball in a meaningful way.

And, unfortunately, much good ruckwork goes unrewarded due to tight tags and scrimmages that lead to the excessive number of secondary bounces; in last week’s Fremantle- Carlton game nearly half of all ruck contests resulted in a secondary bounce.

Despite the myth, clearances are predominantly (in four out of five cases) about players other than the ruckmen, a scenario exacerbated because no one allows ruckmen to belt the ball into space any more, a centre clearance tactic that underpinned Brisbane’s strategy in their premiership era, and one that Fremantle and Aaron Sandilands should consider.

THE CRUNCH PUNCH

SANDILANDS is so dominant in hitouts he has become far too predictable, and adding the “crunch punch” to a predetermined space to his repertoire could help Freo’s clearance problem dramatically, and reassert the value of ruckwork.

Consider this little mindtwister - in the 30 minutes the forgotten Keppler Bradley was in the ruck last week against Carlton, Fremantle dominated clearances.

When the best tap ruckmen in the game was in control the Dockers were slaughtered.

The “block of flats” is so dominant it takes away the random element; too often he hits the ball to the same space.

It wasn’t a coincidence that Adam Bentick stood in the same spot at every Sandilands ruck contest last weekend.

The crunch punch to space is the best way to immediately increase the options the opposition has to consider.

But are the Dockers prepared to take a risk when no one else will?

So far this season there have been only 18 crunch punches to gain a hitout to advantage.

That’s two per week.

Ruckwork is dying because no one wants to take a risk. The Dockers are dying because they are slaves to fashion rather than boldly letting Sandilands become the rucking equivalent of “Twiggy”.

But what of ruckmen in general - are they worth having or was Grant Thomas right when he elected to play Jason Blake in the ruck at the expense of hitouts.

GAME OF THE YEAR

DESPITE what I’ve said so far, the most dominant game of any individual this year, Buddy Franklin included, was by Aaron Sandilands. Yes, a ruckmen.

His Round 6 game against Geelong was phenomenal. He was head and shoulders (literally and metaphorically) above anyone else on the ground.

But that wasn’t because of his hitout numbers, or even his ruckwork in general, but the complete Sandilands package.

He dominated hitouts, winning 48 with 11 to advantage (roughly one in four), but it was his 20 contested possessions and 13 clearances that took his game to the top echelon.

The story was similar in Ottens’ preliminary final last season. He won 24 hitouts with six to advantage, but he actually cleared six stoppages himself and won 15 contested possessions around the ground.

He was considered best on ground but his ruckwork played only a handy part, at best, in the total performance.

THE FUTURE

DEAN Cox provides the evidence and answers to the debate about a ruckman’s worth as he remains one of the game’s most dominant players.

Like most of the top ruckmen today, his ruckwork plays a minor role in clearances with a marginal dominance in hitouts to advantage.

He also has an impact in getting his own clearances, but it is his work as a hard-running, skilful tall midfielder that allows him to exert such an influence on the game.

He adds pace and carry to the West Coast midfield while other ruckmen slow their midfields down.

The influence of ruckwork has never been at a lower ebb, limited by the enormous work of coaches to neutralise stoppages and the centre circle.

The influence of the best ruckmen is still potent, but for very different reasons to the past.

There will still be magical moments when the memories of Nicholls to Gallagher, Farmer to Goggin and Madden to Watson are invoked, but sadly they are all too few.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/afl/thestars/index.php/heraldsun/comments/the_great_ruck_myth

Offline Fluffy Tiger

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Re: Our ruckwork
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2008, 03:37:41 PM »
Ok as a ex ruckman and a bit of a stats person I will have to say that you can use stats to say anything you want.

Here is a fact, we were smashed in the ruck on the weekend and it made a huge differnece to the game. It only takes a few hitouts to a running player that hits a forward target to change the game. Jolly to Goodes on the run was hard to take but it was a thing of beauty. It helped set the game up in the first half. After that it didnt matter who got the hitout or what percentage went to advantage as the Swans had it won and could change the tactics to be defencive it they wanted.

30 Sec to go 1 point the differnece, a bounce at CHF, ruckman hits midfielder at pace , runs in, goal, Win !!!  Small thing in the game, big difference in the result.

We have all seen it happen, percentages and stats wont ever show you that.   
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Offline Francois Jackson

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Re: Our ruckwork
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2008, 05:54:08 PM »
we need to blood another ruckman and fast.

patto is not up to it.

he doesn't seem like a footballer to me. he tries hard so i give him points for that but honestly can he take us to a flag. i dont think so
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Tigermonk

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Re: Our ruckwork
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2008, 10:57:36 AM »
his lost the plot after Wallace dropped him & went into the game with 1 ruckman & a Cotchin debut
Simmonds was not 100% fit & we payed for it in end results to cats
patto had to play Coburg 2nds which destroyed his confidence

mark my words he will end up at Hawthorn

Offline Stripes

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Re: Our ruckwork
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2008, 12:00:18 PM »
This is a funny article for mine. It makes sense but the undeniable fact is that when our first and second ruckman went down last year we were smashed in the centre.

Bring in Cartledge for the time being and put Patto into the HFF role to begin with. Patto would give us a link into the forwardline at worst, a future viable tall option in the F50 at best. In future years I would like to see Putt given more opportunities as he gain some bulk. Jury is out on Angus.

Stripes


Tigermonk

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Re: Our ruckwork
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2008, 01:18:36 PM »
This is a funny article for mine. It makes sense but the undeniable fact is that when our first and second ruckman went down last year we were smashed in the centre.

Bring in Cartledge for the time being and put Patto into the HFF role to begin with. Patto would give us a link into the forwardline at worst, a future viable tall option in the F50 at best. In future years I would like to see Putt given more opportunities as he gain some bulk. Jury is out on Angus.

Stripes



whats the story on Angus Graham
what worries me is that our ruckmen dont strive into the forward 50 enough to create options

l say promote Cartledge from the rookie list for Coughlan & well promote anyone for Johnson  :rollin

Offline one-eyed

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Re: Our ruckwork
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2008, 11:46:46 AM »
Our ruck stats for this year out of interest:

                 Hitouts      1st Poss.    Clearances.

R1 Carl:       even         +2            +5            W
R2 North:      +3            -3            -19           L
R3 Coll:        -8             +5            +8           L
R4 Freo:       -9            even          +3          W
R5 Dogs:      -6              -8           -10          D
R6 Haw:       -10            -2             -8          L
R7 St K:       +12          +32           +9          L
R8 Geel:       -22           +5            -1           L
R9 Ess:        -17           +2            -4          W
R10 Syd:      -26           -13           -1          L

Offline mightytiges

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Re: Our ruckwork
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2008, 10:15:38 PM »
Smashed again in the ruck. Maric killed us.
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Re: Our ruckwork
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2008, 10:27:21 PM »
Smashed again in the ruck. Maric killed us.

Seen Simmo at the gym last Tuesday, shouldnt be playing

Hellenic Tiger

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Re: Our ruckwork
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2008, 01:16:31 AM »
For someone who has the discipline and aggression required for a martial arts black belt Simmo just does not show enough anger and aggression on the field. Does not do enough in the taps nor around the ground.  Does not kick enough goals nor seems to have the pace nor the quick decision making process to be considered as a real threat. Simply not mobile enough and needs someone to get in his face just seems like a passive character needs to be cold blooded like his snakes and be a hunter week in week out.
How he got a game for Victoria with Fraser staggers me, but then again Goodes Cox Lade and co were eligible for the dream team. When guys like Maric are towelling us up we are in deep trouble.

Offline julzqld

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Re: Our ruckwork
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2008, 09:35:39 AM »
I don't think it was a case of Simmo being bad in the ruck, rather than the Crows reading the tap better than us, repeatedly.

Tigermonk

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Re: Our ruckwork
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2008, 10:14:39 AM »
For someone who has the discipline and aggression required for a martial arts black belt Simmo just does not show enough anger and aggression on the field. Does not do enough in the taps nor around the ground.  Does not kick enough goals nor seems to have the pace nor the quick decision making process to be considered as a real threat. Simply not mobile enough and needs someone to get in his face just seems like a passive character needs to be cold blooded like his snakes and be a hunter week in week out.
How he got a game for Victoria with Fraser staggers me, but then again Goodes Cox Lade and co were eligible for the dream team. When guys like Maric are towelling us up we are in deep trouble.

l can personally answer this being a 1st Dan Blackbelt & have instructed
your not trained to show your aggression in Martial Arts,  but to control it & the other persons attacking aggression
A aggressive person is not a smart thinker  ;D & if you take aggression onto the ground the thinker will always outsmart you & be quicker in reflex & decision making

example, Chris Judd

look at Jake King he uses his aggression for pulling stupid faces at umpires when his not thinking  ;D while his doing these face pulling moments his opponant is scaning the field & King is looking at the umpires snarling instead of scaning the field giving instructions to teammates to pick players up & being heard on the field ;D something Richmond lack badly

Simmonds needs to use his physical strength & courage

Simmonds like Richo are carrying injuries & should have been rested weeks ago

Wallace with his crazy thinking using excuses,  says they be right after the bye , But his in damage control like this

l would have rested both after that Victorian game & played others cause we losing anyway & could have lost 1 game
not lose every game till the bye then rest your players hoping they will recover over 2 weeks. They could be at risk of further damage while they are playing & this has been a problem at Richmond for many years they just dont make the right decision.
While waiting for the bye we are losing games & the season is over for us & our percentage is taking a belting in the process

we are losing,  why take the risk of ending a players season & the teams season by pushing injured players to the bye when we could be using fit players who might spark on the day & a chance to win or lose by small margin keeping our percentage intact for when the injured players return & we win games with them playing & a chance to push up the ladder & maybe a slight chance to play finals

the question lays to be answered ??? are they using excuses or are really Tanking l pick the later, cause if thats not what is going on then Wallace is a very stupid coach & the RFC are making the wrong decisions like always

Offline tigersalive

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Re: Our ruckwork
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2008, 11:42:02 AM »
For someone who has the discipline and aggression required for a martial arts black belt Simmo just does not show enough anger and aggression on the field. Does not do enough in the taps nor around the ground.  Does not kick enough goals nor seems to have the pace nor the quick decision making process to be considered as a real threat. Simply not mobile enough and needs someone to get in his face just seems like a passive character needs to be cold blooded like his snakes and be a hunter week in week out.
How he got a game for Victoria with Fraser staggers me, but then again Goodes Cox Lade and co were eligible for the dream team. When guys like Maric are towelling us up we are in deep trouble.

we are losing,  why take the risk of ending a players season & the teams season by pushing injured players to the bye when we could be using fit players who might spark on the day & a chance to win or lose by small margin keeping our percentage intact for when the injured players return & we win games with them playing & a chance to push up the ladder & maybe a slight chance to play finals

Word.  Play big Gus next week vs the Demons and let Simmonds get right.

Thinking the same about Richo, the guy is dead on his feet.  Bring back Jack, Hughes and Morton, i.e. the potential future forward line, and let's see how they roll.  :thumbsup  THis also gives Richo 2 weeks to refresh ready for the 2nd half of the year.   :thumbsup
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