Author Topic: Bowden..The incident!!  (Read 14062 times)

Hellenic Tiger

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Re: Bowden..The incident!!
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2008, 06:36:24 PM »
At the end of the third quarter the Bombers iced the clock by kicking it backwards and forwards to each other, with Tony Shaw saying good play, you don't want the Tiges to score at this late stage.

What's good for the goose .....

 :gotigers

They did it also at the end of the second when they were 4 goals down. :lol Morons. :lol

Now they complain. Even bigger morons. :lol

Ox

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Re: Bowden..The incident!!
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2008, 07:10:19 PM »
Yeh...thank God Joel is instinctively a lazy,sneaky prick....

Offline tigersalive

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Re: Bowden..The incident!!
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2008, 10:14:23 PM »
Whoever wrote the match report for the game I saw in the Hun today had a massive chip on their shouler about it in their report.

All about Joels play in a negative light and Essendons injuries.

Essendon supporter perhaps?  ;D  ;D  :cheers
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Offline mightytiges

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Re: Bowden..The incident!!
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2008, 01:31:57 AM »
Whoever wrote the match report for the game I saw in the Hun today had a massive chip on their shouler about it in their report.

All about Joels play in a negative light and Essendons injuries.

Essendon supporter perhaps?  ;D  ;D  :cheers
Rohan Connolly as a bombers man did the same thing in the Age. All conveniently forgetting the side that won won 3 of the 4 quarters and as coming back from Perth on a 6 day break and no Richo. The fact the Bomber fans are whinging is making the win even more sweeter  :thumbsup.
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Offline one-eyed

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Bowden's ploy 'smart', says Roos / McVeigh has a sook (Age)
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2008, 03:10:48 AM »
Bowden's ploy 'smart', says Roos
Michael Gleeson | July 21, 2008

JOEL Bowden's rushing of two behinds to run down the clock in Richmond's four-point win over Essendon on Saturday, was smart football by a smart footballer, Sydney coach Paul Roos said yesterday.

"If I was standing there as Terry Wallace, I would have been really pleased with the way he handled himself," Roos said.

Bowden wasted precious seconds by twice hanging on to the ball as long as possible and then walking the ball over the goal line for rushed Essendon behinds to prevent the Bombers getting one last chance at winning possession.

"We talk about leadership at footy clubs and about handling yourself under pressure. For a player to be able to think through a situation — they are the rules, he is not exploiting any rule, he is playing the game and trying to win the game of footy. I thought it was outstanding leadership, outstanding footy smarts by Joel Bowden," Roos said.

But rather than instruct defenders to follow suit, Roos said it would more likely inspire opposition coaches to teach players to infringe at the kick-in to give away a 50-metre penalty or a free kick up the field to ensure the ball was brought into play.

But Essendon's injured midfielder Mark McVeigh took exception to the time-soaking tactics and suggested that the introduction of three-point rushed behinds into the AFL premiership season would be timely.

"That was really frustrating because with the rule that we have in the pre-season the three-point rule may be looked at," McVeigh told the Seven Network.

"I don't agree with that (Bowden's tactics), that you can just keep running the ball through. You've got to get the ball back into play. It was disappointing and frustrating, as a supporter and as a player, to watch."

Teammate Scott Lucas was also frustrated by the stalling, but credited his opponent for smart play.

"It was frustrating for us but smart play by Joel Bowden," Lucas told the Nine Network.

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/bowdens-ploy-smart-says-roos/2008/07/20/1216492256927.html

Offline one-eyed

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Three points for rushed behind to melt the ice - Rohan Connolly
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2008, 03:12:45 AM »
Three points for rushed behind to melt the ice
Rohan Connolly | July 21, 2008

YOU knew as Joel Bowden cleverly soaked up the precious 28 seconds left on the clock on Saturday that we were going to be talking about it for some time afterwards.

And so we need to. While protracted debate on the odd quirk in games of football can be tedious, Bowden's two rushed behinds that assured Richmond of its win over Essendon raises some serious issues. The Tigers were six points up when it happened. Say there'd been three or so minutes left on the clock. The canny Tiger could theoretically have kicked to himself then walked back through the goals five times and taken 180-odd seconds off the clock. Smart tactics, certainly. A good look for the game? Absolutely not.

Already, the suggestions are flying thick and fast. You could legislate to prevent the player kicking-in from moving backwards. Outlaw altogether the capacity for him to play on. Start the time clock again only when a second player has touched the ball. Etc., etc.

Personally, I prefer the perhaps more dramatic route of implementing the NAB Cup rule of three points for a rushed behind. That, at least, would have limited Bowden to doing it once. It may also curtail the increasing willingness of defenders to concede behinds in general play.

Think how often now you see a backman up to 20 metres from goal handball or even kick a score for the opposition in order to "get out of jail" or merely just begin another set-play kick-out routine.

But something, surely, has to be done. Now it's happened in a tight game, and knowing not only the frequency of close finishes but the capacity of football to ape innovation, the chance of plenty of recurrences is more than scaremongering. If we're going to continue to talk about changes such as not paying marks for kicks backwards behind centre in an attempt to make it harder to "ice" the clock, this anomaly is even more pressing.

At least when defenders kick the ball around to each other, there's some sort of football skill being executed. What Bowden was able to do involved no one else, and nothing more than a tap from foot to hand before walking backwards a few steps.

In an on-going debate about the attractiveness of the game, the rushed behinds stood out like the sorest of thumbs.

Good luck to Bowden for having the brain to carry it out. And good luck to Richmond for hanging on to the match points, which they probably deserved anyway. But clever though it all was, it wasn't football. It wasn't even sport at all, for that matter.

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/three-points-for-rushed-behind-to-melt-the-ice/2008/07/20/1216492256930.html

Offline julzqld

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Re: Bowden..The incident!!
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2008, 07:45:41 AM »
From the Herald Sun


Richmond's Joel Bowden a great leader: Paul Roos
Mark Robinson and Jon Ralph | July 21, 2008 12:00am

COACHES Paul Roos and Brett Ratten have praised Richmond's Joel Bowden for his leadership in the dying moments on Saturday. The coaches comments were made yesterday as opinions remain divided on the Tiger's controversial time-wasting move.

After Essendon midfielder Mark McVeigh yesterday called on the AFL to consider a deliberate rushed-behind rule, Roos and Ratten had no issue with the tactic.

"He (Bowden) is a really smart footballer, and if I was sitting there as (Richmond coach) Terry Wallace, I would have been really pleased with the way he handled himself,'' Roos said.

"We talk about leadership at a footy club, we talk about handling yourself under pressure. For a player to be able to think through a situation like that . . .

"I thought it was outstanding leadership, I thought it was outstanding footy.''

Carlton coach Brett Ratten agreed.

"If you win the game, and that is what it requires, he didn't hit anyone or do anything outside the rules. It was just smart play and all credit to him,'' Ratten said.

Bowden twice wound down the clock against Essendon by retreating over the goal line, burning valuable seconds before finding Jordan McMahon as the siren sounded.

It was a high-risk strategy, as Bowden reduced a six-point margin to just four as he took 26 seconds off the clock.

Jake King's identical ploy against the Bulldogs in Round 5 eventually cost the Tigers two premiership points in a drawn game.

Bowden had left the interchange bench with 4min 33sec remaining, but could not have known exactly how much time was remaining.

The football world was broadly supportive of Bowden's decision yesterday, but the injured McVeigh said it was a bad look for the game.

"I was sitting watching and it was really frustrating. I feel that, with the rule they have in the pre-season, the three-point rule, maybe we have to look at it,'' McVeigh said.

"I don't agree with that, that you have to just keep running the ball through. You have got to get the ball back into play. It was disappointing and frustrating as a supporter and as a player to watch.''

The NAB Cup rule - which penalises teams three points for a deliberately rushed behind -- clearly has an effect.

In the 2008 pre-season competition there was an average of 1.7 rushed behinds (13 deliberate in 15 games), yet the tally balloons 70 per cent to 2.9 a game in the home-and-away season.

Scott Lucas, who played on Bowden late in the game, said he had no issue with the Richmond defender's tactics.

"It was frustrating for us, but smart play by Joel,'' Lucas told Channel 9.

"We are there to win - there were some (Essendon radio) callers that were a bit disappointed that was the finish to the game, but I'm sure all the Richmond supporters went home happy that they won as a result.''

While Essendon could have given away a free kick upfield to get the ball back into play, McVeigh told Channel 7 the Bombers had not considered that strategy.

"You probably don't think about that when you are playing. We don't like to give away free kicks, but it is something you don't practise at training. You practise zones, you don't worry about player running the ball through,'' McVeigh said.

- with AAP



HOW IT UNFOLDED

53sec: Essendon's Brent Stanton marks, but takes 21sec for an errant shot at goal that puts Essendon six points down.

28sec: By the time the clock ticks down, Jay Schulz kicks out from goal with 28sec left. He finds Bowden at 26sec, stationed 35m out from goal. Bowden gradually retreats and assesses his options until he rushes his first behind, as he is chased by Bomber Kyle Reimers.

10sec: Bowden holds the ball aloft in the goalsquare, then kicks to himself with 10sec left. Then as he is pressured by Reimers, he handballs through the goals with 6sec left. By the time the umpire signals and the clock is stopped, only 2sec remain.

2sec: Bowden finally finds Jordan McMahon with a kick 20m out. McMahon plays on but the siren sounds, giving Richmond the win.



THE RULES

Bowden must play on - only by kicking the ball to himself - for the clock to re-start, thereby wasting time on the clock.

If Bowden had simply handballed the ball back over the line from the kick-in without playing on, no time would have elapsed and a bounce at the top of the goal square would have resulted.


THE SOLUTIONS

In the pre-season competition a deliberately rushed behind (judged by the umpires) results in a three-point penalty.

The AFL is determined not to alter the game's scoring system, which leaves two options.

1) If a player deliberately rushes a behind, the score to the opposition counts, then the ball is bounced at the top of the goalsquare, or 15-20m out. It takes away the advantage of rushing a behind then retaining possession for an attacking thrust, or time-wasting option.

2) If a player deliberately rushes a behind, the score counts, then the opposition is awarded a set shot at goal from a point between 20-40m out.

It is the more drastic option, but would ensure players did everything in their power to avoid a rushed point.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,24049578-19742,00.html


Essendon supporters should be more angry at Stanton missing the goal which would have avoided the whole situation. 

Tigermonk

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Re: Bowden..The incident!!
« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2008, 08:00:55 AM »
Yeh...thank God Joel is instinctively a lazy,sneaky prick....

His coach has great faith in him like most Richmond supporters do
his role is to help win games, he did that & is why Wallet sends him to the backline in the dying moments minutes he knew who would stop the wave of attacks. The Richmond backline was spent & the young blokes needed someone who could do the job Joel Bowden did it & the way he did it made it all the more memorable.  Essendon & thier scummy whinging fans wont forget that in a hurry  :lol it will be forever brought up when the 2 teams meet & have close matches.
Dont foget the great goal Joel kicked & the goals his helped setup. Joel Bowden is a very required player in the Richmond side & l dont see you bagging out Browny who stopped chasing & got blasted for being peeweak
Players had another bad 3rd quarter & need to work on putting teams away instead of thinking they have it won when they aint. Joel made a bad mistake but he is always called to the backline to help out when he should be playing up forward like the coach promised. We have a problem coming out of the backline & until that is fixed, Richmond will always struggle. Hail Joel Bowden he saved our asses  :thumbsup give him credit cause alot of great footballers think his very smart in what he did & how do you know his coach didnot tell him to do what he did in icing Essendon haha
Maybe Terry will tell you on Tuesday  ;D
Richmond has a backline in the making, we cannot expect miricales, Moore off his feet is doing a great job & can get better, This lad has really shook off his injuries & is showing why he was kept on the list. Thursfields lack of match time in the last month took its toll, & McGuane played superb & was spent. Shulzs playing well in a backline role was spent will only get better & Newmans game & style has lifted in the past few months was spent. McMahon was spent had a good game & is blending in well,  & until them lads get it all together & workout a plan & practice it to come out of the backline & change the dynamics of the Richmond backline game plan will release Joel ever going back there & a new Richmond will be born.
Also dont take nothing away from Essendon who played & foughtout the game cause they have been on a role & the beat a good Brisbane side last week, something we must now do ourselves cause they willnot give up a spot in the finals lightly & alot of them premiership players will lift cause they know whats at stake

Tigermonk

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Re: Bowden..The incident!!
« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2008, 08:19:19 AM »
one thing l forget, The footballing world mainly them dickwit AFL bosses will be looking to change the rules now so this will never happen again,  but it willnot solve anything as the smart footballers & coaches will find many other ways to ice the clock.  If a new rule is put in place everytime something is created then football as a game is lost  & people wont want to watch it

Offline tigersalive

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Re: Bowden..The incident!!
« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2008, 08:50:17 AM »
I think it did come from the coaches box.

I was watching from the Punt road end behind the goals and a runner was just outside the 50 on the stuff, I couldnt tell if it was a Don or Tiger but he was on the same side as Bowden before the lead to Schulz and the mark.

The tactic started from there.
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Offline wayne

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Re: Bowden..The incident!!
« Reply #40 on: July 21, 2008, 09:03:53 AM »
Maybe the AFL will completely overeact and bring in a paper notes and rushed behind steward system.

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Offline one-eyed

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Re: Bowden..The incident!!
« Reply #41 on: July 21, 2008, 12:11:12 PM »
Mike Sheahan's view

-------------------------------------
Rushing roulette: a mark on the game's integrity
Mike Sheahan | July 21, 2008 12:00am

JOEL Bowden has rekindled memories of Trevor Chappell and cricket's day of infamy at the MCG.

Just like Chappell in the underarm incident all those years ago, Bowden didn't break a rule on Saturday.

Yet, surely, he breached the spirit of the game.

While the Richmond veteran successfully executed what he deemed necessary to save the game against Essendon, the game suffered in the process.

He deliberately conceded two behinds after shaping to kick in, running down the clock against Essendon, with the Tigers eventually winning by four points.

Bowden achieved his aim - as the reluctant Chappell did in a one-day game against New Zealand - but the game is dimin Related LinksHigh praise: Bowden a great leader, says Roos
Tigers blog: Bowden smartest man in the AFL
Match report: Tigers down Bombers
ished as a result.

The rushed behind has been a blight on football for 20 years; it is an affliction that must be remedied by the AFL.

How farcical will it look if Bowden's behaviour is replicated on Grand Final day?

The 2005 Grand Final was won by four points. It was saved by Leo Barry's mark, not by stuff Barry taking refuge behind the goal-line to run down the clock.

Cricket changed a rule to ban a repeat of Chappell's underarm delivery, and football must do the same with the rushed behind.

The excitement when players are competing for a loose ball close to goal must be protected. If players want to take the negative choice, they should pay the price.

It could be the three-point penalty that applies in the pre-season competition, a ball-up at the top of the goal-square, a free kick at a designated hot-spot, say, 25m in front of goal.

I'm for the hot-spot. It doesn't compromise the traditional scoring system, it requires the recipient to perform a testing skill to earn the reward on offer, and, most important, it provides the necessary deterrent.

Football is the game it is because of the emphasis on skill and attack; you win because you've been more enterprising, more productive.

Test cricket almost died because some countries adopted the philosophy it was more important to save games than take risks trying to win.

It has been saved by the change in attitude generated by the one-day game, where pursuing victory is the only option.

If you barrack for Richmond, you won't have a problem with Bowden's tactic on Saturday; if your primary interest is the game itself - as it must be for the AFL - action is imperative between seasons.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,24049571-19742,00.html

Offline Infamy

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Re: Bowden..The incident!!
« Reply #42 on: July 21, 2008, 12:16:43 PM »
I wasn't a fan of what happened, but it was an anomoly and some of the ideas to counteract it are way over the top.

Talk about chicken little syndrome

Offline one-eyed

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Joel Bowden: smartest man in the AFL (Herald-Sun)
« Reply #43 on: July 21, 2008, 01:32:16 PM »
Joel Bowden: smartest man in the AFL
Herald-Sun blog 
Captain Blood, Richmond Tigers
Sunday, July 20, 2008 at 04:29pm 

Anyone who wants to complain about Joel Bowden’s last-minute tactics against the Bombers is kidding themselves.

Bowden, for anyone who missed it, wound down the clock by conceding two consecutive behinds, the first from general play and the second after he played on to himself in the goalsquare from the kick-in then turned around and handballed through the goals without returning the ball into play.

After the game Essendon fans swamped radio talkback to complain that what Bowden did was against the spirit of the game, even likening it to Trevor Chappell’s infamous underarm delivery in a one-day cricket game against New Zealand.

I can understand why people might say it wasn’t the most attractive way to win a game, but you can’t argue about how effective it was. Or that it was unfair.

Essendon had its chances to win the game, with a series of gettable set shots at goal in the final minutes. They missed and, as per the rules of the game, gained one point for a miss but paid the price of giving up possession to the opposition.

Surely what the other team does with the ball is up to them, provided it’s inside the rules. Bowden didn’t hit anyone and he took a calculated risk by closing the margin. But what he did was legal and smart – especially since he remembered to kick the ball to himself before conceding the second behind. If he didn’t, it would have been a ball-up at the top of the goalsquare – so it was a bigger risk than a lot of people have realized.

The bigger issue here is why Bowden had to do what he did. Richmond was in total control in the first half and finished with 18 more inside 50s than the Bombers, so it should never have been that close.

But it was because the Tigers did what they have made a bad habit of doing this season: shutting up shop way too early; if the Richmond players were running a retail business they would be bankrupt by now.

The theory seems to be that if we are ahead by two or three goals with not long to go, why risk losing possession by attacking? Best to hang on to the footy and protect the lead.

The problem with this is that (a) for this plan to work you need cool heads and good skills. We freeze, panic and turn the ball over; and (b) we are shutting up shop way too early.

We did it against the Bulldogs earlier in the year and it cost us two points. But you could argue a three-goal lead with three-minutes left is not unreasonable timing to try to eat up time. Against Port we stopped with about 15 minutes to go and were only saved by a brilliant mark at the top of the goalsquare by guess who.

Yesterday it was at about the 20-minute mark of the final term that our players decided they had done enough and didn’t need to score again to win. It turned out they were right (unless you count Bowden scoring for the other team), but only just.

We won’t get away with that against better teams, so we either need to get a lot better at it, or just go with the radical theory of continuing to play with the style that has earned us the lead in the first place.

Few things in footy are black and white and it is possible to modify the style slightly so we don’t take unnecessary risks, but in footy attack is almost always the best form of defence anyway – if we have the ball in the back pocket I’d rather see a long kick to a contest on the wing than players going backwards and sideways to a teammate under pressure.

Anyway, enough negativity. We won! That’s two in a row for the second time this year. The challenge is to make it three and we have the perfect opportunity against Brisbane on Saturday night.

I just hope I don’t see a backwards pass when we are 10 points in front with five minutes to go. Or if I do, it’s to Joel Bowden.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/afl/fanforce/index.php/heraldsun/comments/joel_bowden_smartest_man_in_the_afl/

Offline wayne

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Re: Bowden..The incident!!
« Reply #44 on: July 21, 2008, 01:41:06 PM »
At the end of the third quarter the Bombers iced the clock by kicking it backwards and forwards to each other, with Tony Shaw saying good play, you don't want the Tiges to score at this late stage.

What's good for the goose .....

 :gotigers

They did it also at the end of the second when they were 4 goals down. :lol Morons. :lol

Now they complain. Even bigger morons. :lol

I was thinking 'god I hope the bumbers don't get a late goal and go in with some momentum'  :lol

So what do they do, they start kicking backwards.

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