Author Topic: Trouble is brewing  (Read 57765 times)

Offline Puntroadroar

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #270 on: October 01, 2004, 02:10:08 PM »
I'm voting for Casey


stuff Macek and Co.


LOL
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Offline mightytiges

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #271 on: October 01, 2004, 02:24:08 PM »
Well, you're persisting on grouping Casey, Welsh, Swab and conveniently ommitting that the reason Swab and Welsh left the board is because they claim they had no input into and insight of decisions, and Casey made all the decisions on his own without consulting the rest of the board.

You're entitled to not believe them, but this is the reason they've given for leaving the Casey board and challenging it.

I for one believe that Casey has been running the place at his own whim, which is why I will vote against him.

Fair enough 1980.

The reason why I find it hard to believe Schwab and Welsh is because they were on the board for over 5 years and yet somehow we are meant to believe in all that time they were not responsible for any poor or failed decisions.

Welsh I find really strange. He now claims the same grievences as Schwab yet at the time it was reported by Caro (who can't stand Casey btw) The Age 24/3/2004:

"Jewell's replacement as football director, 1980 premiership player Peter Welsh, quit last week after the Tigers' last pre-season game with the basic excuse that it was all too hard. Welsh is not a Frawley fan, nor is he a Casey fan.

Football operations boss Greg Miller pleaded with him to stay but Welsh said that all of a sudden he realised he didn't have the time to sit in the box with Frawley each week and work with the football department. Welsh believes he is doing the decent thing by reaching that conclusion now and not midway through the year."

Also if he had these same grievences which existed before the AGM in late January and was considering resigning why did he ask to be re-elected without a peep out of him about these grievences?!
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RonBranton

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #272 on: October 01, 2004, 02:33:26 PM »
Tiger Spirit

You wrote:

" Let me put it to you this way and feel free to let me know if my views are unbalanced"

Tiger - I didn't say that your views were unbalanced.

I wrote the post that you were replying to for three reasons:

1. You implied that the current board did well to contain the budget blowout that they were actually responsible for - I can't see much virtue in that, and it was the line run by Brendan in his interview with KB.

2. You claimed that Schwab said his group would pay Ottens what he wanted - he didn't.

3. Other posters were posting  :bow tributes to these comments and I wanted to place an alternative opinion for the sake of balance.

That is not to say that your opinions were unbalanced - if you have two alternative opinions you get balance (relatively) Compre?

Now with regard to the rest of your post - hmm - I think I'll have to get back to you....  :-\

 
« Last Edit: October 01, 2004, 02:37:23 PM by RonBranton »

Offline 1980

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #273 on: October 01, 2004, 03:49:16 PM »
Well, you're persisting on grouping Casey, Welsh, Swab and conveniently ommitting that the reason Swab and Welsh left the board is because they claim they had no input into and insight of decisions, and Casey made all the decisions on his own without consulting the rest of the board.

You're entitled to not believe them, but this is the reason they've given for leaving the Casey board and challenging it.

I for one believe that Casey has been running the place at his own whim, which is why I will vote against him.

Fair enough 1980.

The reason why I find it hard to believe Schwab and Welsh is because they were on the board for over 5 years and yet somehow we are meant to believe in all that time they were not responsible for any poor or failed decisions.

Welsh I find really strange. He now claims the same grievences as Schwab yet at the time it was reported by Caro (who can't stand Casey btw) The Age 24/3/2004:

"Jewell's replacement as football director, 1980 premiership player Peter Welsh, quit last week after the Tigers' last pre-season game with the basic excuse that it was all too hard. Welsh is not a Frawley fan, nor is he a Casey fan.

Football operations boss Greg Miller pleaded with him to stay but Welsh said that all of a sudden he realised he didn't have the time to sit in the box with Frawley each week and work with the football department. Welsh believes he is doing the decent thing by reaching that conclusion now and not midway through the year."

Also if he had these same grievences which existed before the AGM in late January and was considering resigning why did he ask to be re-elected without a peep out of him about these grievences?!

No doubt this would all be easier to digest, and the stories from swab/welsh about leaving the board because they'd given up on trying to change it from within, would have much more credibility if they'd done so much earlier.

No doubt that its difficult to believe they tried for 5 years to change things from within, and think they're better off now trying to change things from outside.

Maybe I've been following this a bit longer than most, but there has not been a key decision made at our football club in the past 5 years that was not driven and implemented by Casey. Seems the board was happy for things to go this way for a long time, and a few have now decided that its not the way to go.

For me, Casey has not done such a great job that he should continue to make all the decisions and appointments without involving the other directors. And having an election will send a clear message from the members that this is not a one man club. Until the challenge, its been a one man club. The Clinton Casey club. IMO he has been unaccountable to the board and more importantly the members. 

That for me, will be much more important than the question of who will make a better president, Macek or Casey.

Everyone can cry all they want that swab and Welsh were on the board for 5 years, but like the rest of the humps, they're just bums on seats making up the quota. The direction and decisions are all Casey, and I dont want Casey to continue to make them all. He's not done such a great job. Swab & Welsh dont have strong credibilities, but its not as if Casey's appointments like Anthony Mitten to fill the vacancies are any better. Another yes man as far as I'm concerned. And after the challenge, more yes men will be put in place.












Offline 1980

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #274 on: October 01, 2004, 03:53:32 PM »
Well most of those are football related matters 1980.  I'd say Welsh, as a former footballer and DIRECTOR OF FOOTBALL, would have had a pretty heavy say in some of those decisions.  Do you not question his abilities?
In fact, most of the problems that have faced the RFC can be all traced back to onfield performance.  Do you trust Welsh to try again and repeat the same errors?


Wasnt it you that wanted to kick out Casey and replace him with Leon Daphne earlier in the year? Or was it Neville Crowe?  :P

froars

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #275 on: October 01, 2004, 03:56:16 PM »
Yes, it was.  What's your point?

Offline Tiger Spirit

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #276 on: October 01, 2004, 04:21:23 PM »
Fair comment RonB, thanks for the response.  I could argue, debate, dissect and discuss forever and a day, every little detail, about everything said on this topic, but what good would it do?

People get so caught up with the trivial details such as who said and did what.  To be perfectly honest, and in the overall scheme of things, they really don’t matter.

All I’m concerned about is that RFC members get a say on how the Club is run, instead of being dictated to by outside influences.  If people wanted to get caught up in every little thing I’ve said on this, no doubt they could pick a lot of holes in there, if they were that way inclined.

But while they were doing that, they’d miss the whole point of what is being said.

If people could instead look at the bigger picture, rather than worrying about who said and did what then the decision of what to do in this situation would become clear.  As it is, some find it difficult to decide who to trust or believe and with good reason.
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Jackstar

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #277 on: October 01, 2004, 04:25:42 PM »
Hey 1980, you argument for Macek hold no substance, making millions with someone elses money doesnt mean you can be president of a football club ::)
Ian Dicker is a multi-millionare and have alook at the mess the Hawks are in.
Ditto with the Billionaire bloke Paleman with Brisbane back in the 80,s
AsI have said before, have you ever met Macek ? If you have , you would know what I mean, personality plus! ::)
As for which side of the fence I sit on, I am all for change, change for the better .Problem is that if actually knew the people in the alternative ticket, you would realise that they are not the answer.
All the energy that is wasted on the matter is a shame. At the end of the day the CEO runs the joint and the coach coaches the team, pretty simple I reckon.
Decisions have been made by the current board ,rightfully or wrongfully, there is a new CEO and NEW coach, the club is in there hands, irrevelent to any decisions the board makes in the future.

And please dont anyone argue about losing 2m. 2 m in the context of things isnt a big deal. Win a few more games next year, cut back on expenses and you are back infront. The current board has commenced this process of cutting back expenses and only spending money that they can afford .

Offline 1980

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #278 on: October 01, 2004, 04:36:09 PM »
Yes, it was.  What's your point?

Froarsy, that is my point  ;)

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #279 on: October 01, 2004, 04:53:34 PM »
Maybe I've been following this a bit longer than most, but there has not been a key decision made at our football club in the past 5 years that was not driven and implemented by Casey. Seems the board was happy for things to go this way for a long time, and a few have now decided that its not the way to go.


1980, I have been following "this" a long long time - since the end of 2001 to be precise.

Every year without fail I get the full financials of the club and go through them with a "fine tooth comb" as they say. I think I have a very good understanding of the structure of our Football Club, where the money has been lost, what's been done well and what's been done badly.

But I have to ask and I don't mean it to sound condescending but regarding..."but there has not been a key decision made at our football club in the past 5 years that was not driven and implemented by Casey"

How do you know?





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froars

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #280 on: October 01, 2004, 04:56:05 PM »
Quote
Froarsy, that is my point 
Well when Leon or Neville nominate, come and talk about that - it might be relevant to your argument then!
« Last Edit: October 01, 2004, 04:59:43 PM by froars »

Offline 1980

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #281 on: October 01, 2004, 05:26:52 PM »
Hey 1980, you argument for Macek hold no substance, making millions with someone elses money doesnt mean you can be president of a football club ::)
Ian Dicker is a multi-millionare and have alook at the mess the Hawks are in.
Ditto with the Billionaire bloke Paleman with Brisbane back in the 80,s
AsI have said before, have you ever met Macek ? If you have , you would know what I mean, personality plus! ::)
As for which side of the fence I sit on, I am all for change, change for the better .Problem is that if actually knew the people in the alternative ticket, you would realise that they are not the answer.
All the energy that is wasted on the matter is a shame. At the end of the day the CEO runs the joint and the coach coaches the team, pretty simple I reckon.
Decisions have been made by the current board ,rightfully or wrongfully, there is a new CEO and NEW coach, the club is in there hands, irrevelent to any decisions the board makes in the future.

And please dont anyone argue about losing 2m. 2 m in the context of things isnt a big deal. Win a few more games next year, cut back on expenses and you are back infront. The current board has commenced this process of cutting back expenses and only spending money that they can afford .


One thing to say being successful in business doesnt mean you will be successful running a footy club, entirely another to say the guy's not qualified to run the local bingo.

For a guy thats sits on boards, I'm surprised you reckon the CEO runs the club. The CEO in any business is accountable to the board, which is accountable to shareholders, or in this case the members.

And if the board is doing stupid things and losing $2m of the members money, the footy dept has less options to recruit key players. Something we're seeing right now.





Offline 1980

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #282 on: October 01, 2004, 05:28:33 PM »
Quote
Froarsy, that is my point 
Well when Leon or Neville nominate, come and talk about that - it might be relevant to your argument then!

Arent you afraid of being accused of supporting failed ex-board members?

Offline 1980

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #283 on: October 01, 2004, 05:34:22 PM »
Maybe I've been following this a bit longer than most, but there has not been a key decision made at our football club in the past 5 years that was not driven and implemented by Casey. Seems the board was happy for things to go this way for a long time, and a few have now decided that its not the way to go.


1980, I have been following "this" a long long time - since the end of 2001 to be precise.

Every year without fail I get the full financials of the club and go through them with a "fine tooth comb" as they say. I think I have a very good understanding of the structure of our Football Club, where the money has been lost, what's been done well and what's been done badly.

But I have to ask and I don't mean it to sound condescending but regarding..."but there has not been a key decision made at our football club in the past 5 years that was not driven and implemented by Casey"

How do you know?


I've got no beef with you WP or anyone else that supports the current board for what they consider to be valid reasons. And there's a few ppl here that have obviously thought it through and decided they dont like the alternative. And fair enough.

But I've got a big problem with ppl that were dirty on Casey all year and then changed their minds since Terry Wallace was appointed as coach. And there's a few of them around too.

Anyway, let me ask you. Why do you think swab & welsh resigned if not for the reason that Casey was making decisions without consulting his board. Did they resign because of ego? Do you really believe they didnt resign because there are many problems at the club the board is either unaware of, or ignoring. Do you really believe they resigned because of personality clash with Casey or ego? Cos if you're right, this is a club that can never be fixed.


froars

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #284 on: October 01, 2004, 06:35:06 PM »
Quote
Arent you afraid of being accused of supporting failed ex-board members?

1980, I’d be more afraid of being looked at as narrow minded, having only channel vision for something, and not being able to look about and see all the options.

And the real picture isn’t that good, but I am yet to be convinced that the other ticket has anything better to offer than we’ve already got.  If Leon Daphne was running tomorrow, I’d probably jump ship again, because I’ve seen what a great leader he is, and I’d think he’d go hand in hand with the current administration that we’ve currently got.

Okay Casey.  I do not like the man, I never have – and probably never will.  That’s personal, because I don’t like Essendon supporters running my club.  But neither do I like people like Schwab who come to this club thinking they own it just because their father was a Richmond great.  Same with Caro, Rhett, anyone who thinks they own this club more than me, you or anyone else.  They may not be that way, but that’s the impression I get.  But none of those reasons would sway me from voting for them if I thought they were the best people for the job.

I also don’t like the way Casey shies away when things get tough and doesn’t face supporters back at the club, or in the media – generally only when forced to do it.  But hey, I didn’t see Schwab or Welsh or anyone else make speeches when they were there either.  Maybe Casey was entertaining the corporates or something he probably thought was more important – but it still left me feeling that me and everyone else needed things explained.  I sometimes saw Schwab having a beer after a game, but he never got up and said anything.  But since I’ve been whinging about no presence at after matches, I have noticed a few more directors and Miller coming back – not making speeches, but talking to the supporters.  I would rather have Miller there any day than Casey.

You can call me someone who jumps ship – but tell me when I ever supported Macek, Schwab, Welsh, Humphris or any of the new people on that ticket.  I’ve met a couple of them, and they are really nice people – even had dinner with one of them on his flash boat lol – but we’re talking about the future of the Richmond Football Club, something that is very important to me – and you and everyone else – and I won’t be taking any vote I make lightly.

And if that means I jump ship every five minutes, so be it – I can live with that and what you think of me.  I care the least what you think of me or anyone else for that matter.  But I do care how you vote – and whether that’s Schwab, Casey or whoever that you haven’t been tainted by my opinion, just because I appear to be jumping ship, or whatever.  Prefer you actually did the same exercise and weighed the pros and cons of both sides. 

I can’t weigh the other side yet, because they haven’t told me a darn thing about what they would do differently and many of the people on that ticket are just as responsible IMO for the financial and football woes we’re in at the moment.  And if it came down to the Schwab ticket v the Casey ticket, at the moment I would pick the Casey ticket easily, because he appointed Miller, he appointed Wallace, and he finally got rid of Danny.  But if I had to pick individuals, Casey, Schwab, Welsh and Humphris wouldn’t be there either.

Hate to say this, but even the drover’s dog lol would be able to lead the RFC if our football fortunes turned around.  I like the direction things are going with the youth policy they seem to be adopting, away from the hack mentality.  Seems like everything is on track, and just needs patience for a couple of years to see these kids come good.  And when they come good, it wouldn’t matter who was in charge, the revenue will flow and flow and flow.  Are Schwab and Welsh responsible for that – no, they jumped ship one week prior to the beginning of the season.  At the time, I thought they didn’t have much regard for the club when they left them in the lurch down two directors, and I still think that way.  Plus I never saw any of the things they did while they were there – and I can’t hack them saying they were kept in the dark.  Doesn’t show great strength or leadership – great leaders would have demanded more involvement.

So, all I can say, is I am just as confused as everyone else.  But I really don’t care what you think of me if I jump ship 50 times – I do so for the one reason that when I really do make my final vote, I do so for the reasons I think are the best for the RFC.