Author Topic: Mark Seaby  (Read 15197 times)

Offline mightytiges

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Re: Tigers interested in Seaby
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2008, 04:38:40 PM »
JON for Seaby then lol.

Seriously good clubs put their faith in draft after draft. They don't give up top 30 picks for temporary measures. If we want a temporary measure in the ruck then we might as well keep Cartledge. At least he wouldn't cost us a decent pick. Then you trade for that extra pick anyway and pick up 3 top 30 kids instead of 2. Good clubs cop the short term pain for long-term gain and success. The Eagles would be laughing ending up with 10 picks inside the top 26 in the space of two years after winning a flag while Richmond ends up with just 1 pick inside the top 40 if other trades aren't done to replace pick 26. Spot the club that knows and understands how to rebuild their list  ::).

It's these kind of trades if they go through which keep Richmond in mediocre-land. It's ironic too. We gave up pick 17 in the 2001 superdraft for Stafford because we were desperate for a ruckman. Are we going to stuff up another superdraft in 2008 for the similar reasons?!  :banghead.
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Offline Infamy

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Re: Tigers interested in Seaby
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2008, 04:56:40 PM »
He's better than Mark Blake
Isn't that kinda like saying having terminal cancer is better than being dead?

 :lol

As long as we use a 4th rounder i'd be happy with it.
To be fair I was more just taking a shot Blake with that comment, saying you're better than Blake is not something I'd want on my AFL resume.

I wouldn't mind Seaby, he's 200cm and athletic, will be coming into his prime right now, having played almost 100 games as a 24 year old ruck is pretty impressive in itself
Would be happy to give our 3rd rounder for him, but that will be pushing it as they'll most likely want our 2nd pick. At most I'd offer Pick 26 for their 3rd rounder which would be 35ish I think

Online Francois Jackson

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Re: Tigers interested in Seaby
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2008, 06:01:06 PM »
JON for Seaby then lol.

Seriously good clubs put their faith in draft after draft. They don't give up top 30 picks for temporary measures. If we want a temporary measure in the ruck then we might as well keep Cartledge. At least he wouldn't cost us a decent pick. Then you trade for that extra pick anyway and pick up 3 top 30 kids instead of 2. Good clubs cop the short term pain for long-term gain and success. The Eagles would be laughing ending up with 10 picks inside the top 26 in the space of two years after winning a flag while Richmond ends up with just 1 pick inside the top 40 if other trades aren't done to replace pick 26. Spot the club that knows and understands how to rebuild their list  ::).

It's these kind of trades if they go through which keep Richmond in mediocre-land. It's ironic too. We gave up pick 17 in the 2001 superdraft for Stafford because we were desperate for a ruckman. Are we going to stuff up another superdraft in 2008 for the similar reasons?!  :banghead.

This is possibly the best post i have read in months.

 :thumbsup

100% correct.
keep the blood.y trades FFS Richmond. We may find the next Jimmy Hird with a 4th rounder for Seaby.

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Offline torch

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Re: Tigers interested in Seaby
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2008, 06:35:47 PM »
:(

Offline Hes My Hero

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Re: Tigers interested in Seaby
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2008, 07:31:07 PM »
It looks like we are leading the charge for Seaby, as reported by Fox Sports.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,24442093-23211,00.html

"His manager Wayne Loxley said the Tigers were showing the most interest, with Carlton also in the hunt."

Offline mightytiges

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Re: Tigers interested in Seaby
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2008, 08:13:46 PM »
If we give away our 2nd round pick for a dud like Seaby  :banghead, Craig Cameron should be sacked on the spot. A good way to set the record for the shortest stint as a list manager in history.

Geez he's 24 and his stats are not far different from Patto's  :P.

http://finalsiren.com/PlayerCompare.asp?SeasonID=2008&PlayerName1=Adam+Pattison&PlayerName2=&PlayerName3=&PlayerName4=&Compare=Compare&SelectedPlayers=1368%2C



bare in mind MT that seaby prob plays reduced game time as second fiddle to cox...his redeeming feature, He WINS tapouts, an unknown at tigerland since Roy wright :-[
The General wasn't too shabby either in the early 80s  ;).

That's true bj that Seaby's reduced game time would affect his stats but a modern ruckman has to do more than just win hitouts otherwise Knobel would've been a star. They've got to win hitouts to advantage and be agile enough to link up through the midfield to stay in the game in general play. Whereas Cox has maintained his AA form despite no Cousins and Judd at his feet and a poor Eagles side, Seaby has been bloody ordinary. I just don't rate him especially if it's going to cost us a good pick in a strong draft. At 24 years of age it's not like he's young with plenty of upside; it's more WYSIWYG.
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Offline mightytiges

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Re: Tigers interested in Seaby
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2008, 08:31:40 PM »
Would be happy to give our 3rd rounder for him, but that will be pushing it as they'll most likely want our 2nd pick. At most I'd offer Pick 26 for their 3rd rounder which would be 35ish I think
The problem is being a ruckman Seaby's market value is significantly higher than his performance value. Being a premiership player would bump up his price as well (so was Ben Marsh  ::) ). So pick 26 is probably a right market price to appease the Eagles "seeking a first round pick"  :o but we would be paying way over especially in this draft. Seems a done deal going by that link HMH posted  :help. Another RFC "quick fix" that trades us out of a draft :banghead.




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Offline Tazzytiger

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Re: Tigers interested in Seaby
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2008, 08:49:52 PM »
JON for Seaby then lol.

Seriously good clubs put their faith in draft after draft. They don't give up top 30 picks for temporary measures. If we want a temporary measure in the ruck then we might as well keep Cartledge. At least he wouldn't cost us a decent pick. Then you trade for that extra pick anyway and pick up 3 top 30 kids instead of 2. Good clubs cop the short term pain for long-term gain and success. The Eagles would be laughing ending up with 10 picks inside the top 26 in the space of two years after winning a flag while Richmond ends up with just 1 pick inside the top 40 if other trades aren't done to replace pick 26. Spot the club that knows and understands how to rebuild their list  ::).

It's these kind of trades if they go through which keep Richmond in mediocre-land. It's ironic too. We gave up pick 17 in the 2001 superdraft for Stafford because we were desperate for a ruckman. Are we going to stuff up another superdraft in 2008 for the similar reasons?!  :banghead.

This is possibly the best post i have read in months.

 :thumbsup

100% correct.
keep the blood.y trades FFS Richmond. We may find the next Jimmy Hird with a 4th rounder for Seaby.


Beat me to it Dan, Best post in ages.

Online Francois Jackson

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Re: Tigers interested in Seaby
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2008, 08:56:56 PM »
The only trade i would be happy and content with is a very simple trade.

JON for Seaby. Done deal. I would even throw in Meyer(Steak knives) as well.
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Offline bojangles17

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Re: Tigers interested in Seaby
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2008, 09:42:33 PM »
Would be happy to give our 3rd rounder for him, but that will be pushing it as they'll most likely want our 2nd pick. At most I'd offer Pick 26 for their 3rd rounder which would be 35ish I think
The problem is being a ruckman Seaby's market value is significantly higher than his performance value. Being a premiership player would bump up his price as well (so was Ben Marsh  ::) ). So pick 26 is probably a right market price to appease the Eagles "seeking a first round pick"  :o but we would be paying way over especially in this draft. Seems a done deal going by that link HMH posted  :help. Another RFC "quick fix" that trades us out of a draft :banghead.

I reckon he offers better value than you make out...his stats are reasonably good apart from hitouts, prob avg 13-14 possies , not bad as second fiddle...was a rising star nomination, can take a grab...I worry about using high draft picksa on ruckman , they are very very hit and mis..much better using lower pix and in any case their value tends to get overrated, i didnt see too many Polly Farmers at the GF last saturday...our R1 selection should be reserved for potential gamebreakers...already we have putt, Vickery doesnt look to be any improvement on that...Seaby will fill an important void that will help us take that next step





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Offline Darth Tiger

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Re: Tigers interested in Seaby
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2008, 09:52:56 PM »
Seaby is a single-paced ruck without the endurance that a modern ruck man facing 4 boundary umpires requires.  Dominate left side that is easily read and got carved up at WAFL level at West Perth several times this year including being pantsed by WCE rookie Will Sullivan.

Admittedly he ticks a few boxes in terms of age, 100 games of experience and is a solid citizen, however when is Richmond going to wake up and develop our own rather than rely on other teams cast-offs, because the fact is Seaby is not in the best 22 for a team that finished 15th with a ruckman that has an injured foot.   :banghead
 

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Re: Tigers interested in Seaby
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2008, 10:04:45 PM »
This looks like a desperate attempt to fill a hole in a coaches last year. Its typical Richmond and its wrong.

Online Francois Jackson

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Re: Tigers interested in Seaby
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2008, 10:08:01 PM »
Same old RFC.

we did it last year with chicken legs mcmahon and we are going to do it again.

Only prob is this draft is a gem
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Offline mightytiges

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Re: Tigers interested in Seaby
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2008, 01:50:23 AM »
Would be happy to give our 3rd rounder for him, but that will be pushing it as they'll most likely want our 2nd pick. At most I'd offer Pick 26 for their 3rd rounder which would be 35ish I think
The problem is being a ruckman Seaby's market value is significantly higher than his performance value. Being a premiership player would bump up his price as well (so was Ben Marsh  ::) ). So pick 26 is probably a right market price to appease the Eagles "seeking a first round pick"  :o but we would be paying way over especially in this draft. Seems a done deal going by that link HMH posted  :help. Another RFC "quick fix" that trades us out of a draft :banghead.
I reckon he offers better value than you make out...his stats are reasonably good apart from hitouts, prob avg 13-14 possies , not bad as second fiddle...was a rising star nomination, can take a grab...I worry about using high draft picksa on ruckman , they are very very hit and mis..much better using lower pix and in any case their value tends to get overrated, i didnt see too many Polly Farmers at the GF last saturday...our R1 selection should be reserved for potential gamebreakers...already we have putt, Vickery doesnt look to be any improvement on that...Seaby will fill an important void that will help us take that next step
Seaby's averaged just 9 possies over his whole career and he did so again this year. Even as a second stringer that's ordinary. We bag Patto yet his stats from similar limited gametime ain't so different to Seaby's. Seaby also went backwards this year. Not a good sign for a 24 year old. I don't buy the 'Cox hinders him' line as that says we are accepting second best and for a good pick like 26 you shouldn't accept second best. Reminds me of when we picked up Shane Morrison and the club claimed he was being held back by Jonathan Brown  :-X. Temporary measures are just that temporary whereas the kid we pick up at #26 in this strong draft could end up playing for us for the next 10-12 years.

I know there's the argument that pick 26 or any of our early picks could end up a dud so trading is a "safe" option. However clubs that think that way and trade away their good picks don't end up doing any good. Sadly Richmond has been one of them. As I said good successful clubs place their faith in the draft system. You don't just draft one ruckman over so many drafts either. If it means we end up with say 4 or 5 young ruckmen on our list and only 1 or 2 make it in the end then so be it. You can always trade away a surplus ruck to dumb desperate clubs for a good pick to keep the cycle going. That's the whole point. You try to get as many early picks as possible so over time you can sort and collect the best young footballers over many drafts to form a strong talented 22 with depth behind them. Yes it takes time for the list to mature when you have been starting from scratch as we have but it's the way to rebuild properly.

Hitouts to advantage is what is really important to a ruckman. I can't find those stats on the web though to know how Seaby exactly does. Robert Campbell percentage wise is apparently No.1 in the comp for hitouts to advantage. He now has a premiership medallion.

Btw Vickery can play in the ruck and up forward. He's not a one trick pony. Not that he may still be around at pick 8. We may go for a young mid or KPP instead.
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Offline mightytiges

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Re: Tigers interested in Seaby
« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2008, 02:06:15 AM »
This looks like a desperate attempt to fill a hole in a coaches last year. Its typical Richmond and its wrong.
Except we're told under this 'new' footy dept structure list decisions have been taken out of the coaches hands and Miller is of course gone ???.  A poor start from a new footy and list manager  :-X.
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