Tyrone Vickery [merged]

[Mr Magic]

vickery in yr 5 i wont bring up what hes done as a ruckman or the stats quite frankly they are embarrasing and to try and compare vickery to the others even at the same stage  is just plain nonsense no stupidity.

Vickery hasn't just played as a ruckman though so what is the point of comparing his stats to anyone who has? That's where it gets stupid.

[Judge Roughneck]

sandiland in his first 5 yrs didnt have less then 350 h/oand by yr 5 had over 600

assuming 600 is good footy and 300 is not

would the sentence "none of those types start to play good footy until 24-26 years of age." not ring true?

seeing as sandi got 300+ hitouts at 23ish years of age. and 600 hit outs at 30ish years of age. i dont believe the vibe of the statement is incorrect

compare vickery to the others even at the same stage  is just plain nonsense no stupidity.

maric goals p game  0.4
cox  0.5
sandi  0.4

vickery 1.2

three times more goals p game


*overall career

[Mr Magic]

maric goals p game  0.4
cox  0.5
sandi  0.4

vickery 1.2

three times more goals p game

Exactly Judge Judy. 

[TigerMonk]

you clowns comparing #1 Ruckmen to Vickery     
his struggling to cement a place as a KPF let alone the bench or red vest. so please stop

[The Big Richo]

It's not about the position the comparison is on the height.

200cm plus players take until 24-26 to 'ripen'.

Claw you are arguing the same thing I am, Cox came into his best in about 05 when he was reaching that age bracket.

Sandilands went from being a solid player to a very good player at that stage.

I'm not comparing Vickery's potential to them but every indicator would say he is about to dramatically lift his impact on games and based on the base he has so far that puts him in line to be a very reasonable player.

[the claw]

It's not about the position the comparison is on the height.

200cm plus players take until 24-26 to 'ripen'.

Claw you are arguing the same thing I am, Cox came into his best in about 05 when he was reaching that age bracket.

Sandilands went from being a solid player to a very good player at that stage.

I'm not comparing Vickery's potential to them but every indicator would say he is about to dramatically lift his impact on games and based on the base he has so far that puts him in line to be a very reasonable player.

nope the comment you made or implied  was vickery  is just as good as those players you mentioned at the same stage and the simple fact is hes miles behind them. ffs you compared him to those ruckmen and he just doesnt stack up to em.
i will say again even the club has recognised that vickery will not become a #1 ruckman hence they went and got hampson.

now we all know statistically hes been lousy in that role and he plays soft there.

so as i suggested lets compare him to kpfs at the same sort of stages of their careers. my money is on hes is way behind most at the same stage in this role as well.

all im saying is as a ruckman he doesnt stack up and has been very ordinary. as a kpf he been slightly better but still ordinary. in both roles he is not tracking well ffs 6 yrs in but geez he can be poor because hes got potential. just when do you blokes say hey enough of the potential b/s its tiome to put up or shut up.any way   if i had a good look  i reckon he would be behind most kpfs at the same stage as well.
at various stages with him we have pinned our hopes on him being a ruckman despite him being consistenly ordinary in the role, and when that hasnt worked we pin our hopes on him being a kpf despite him being ordinary in that role as well. we dont need another  ordinary ruckman  and we definately dont need an ordinary kpf. we desperately need another top level kpf to partner riewoldt.
we efinately need another top level ruckman to help and then take over from maric. vickery is neither,

i will say again we need kpfs and tall fwds because the actual fact is both griffiths and vickery have been very ordinary. ffs we now have mcbean as well and he shows the same sort of traits as vickery. people raving about pace and agility but totally forgetting what 200cm players who are to be kpps or ruckmen  are all about.

i dont understand you people you bitch about the fwd line and then defend the culprits you lot need to decide what side of the fence your on because quite frankly you want your cake and eat it at the same time.

[the claw]

sandiland in his first 5 yrs didnt have less then 350 h/oand by yr 5 had over 600

assuming 600 is good footy and 300 is not

would the sentence "none of those types start to play good footy until 24-26 years of age." not ring true?

seeing as sandi got 300+ hitouts at 23ish years of age. and 600 hit outs at 30ish years of age. i dont believe the vibe of the statement is incorrect

compare vickery to the others even at the same stage  is just plain nonsense no stupidity.

maric goals p game  0.4
cox  0.5
sandi  0.4

vickery 1.2

three times more goals p game


*overall career

im not going to comment on this because i know your not really that stupid.

are you really saying vickery is a good ruckman and he has performed better than cox sandilands and maric as a ruckman at each stage of their careers. not even you are that silly.
i tell you what vi will just post random stats that without context can be made to mean anything.
we are talking about vickery as a ruckman here arent we. nearly 25 nearly 100games entering yr 7 and in the role hes been worse than hamspud. you know that bloke you want to delist.

[the claw]

vickery in yr 5 i wont bring up what hes done as a ruckman or the stats quite frankly they are embarrasing and to try and compare vickery to the others even at the same stage  is just plain nonsense no stupidity.

Vickery hasn't just played as a ruckman though so what is the point of comparing his stats to anyone who has? That's where it gets stupid.

hjey hey hey if you read the thread i wasnt the one who compared him to ruckmen i was just setting people straight.
ruckman or kpf either way in the main hes been ordinary.

gunna keep on saying it.  very very few 200cm players become permanent good consistent kpfs. last time i looked we are searching for exactly that to partner riewoldt. in fact i can think of only one tippett and i dont really  rate him think theres been a lot of hype about the bloke.

[Andyy]

Enough excuses for me.

Either this guy impresses me this season or we look to trade him and invest more in the likes of Griffiths/McBean/Elton.

[The Big Richo]

nope the comment you made or implied  was vickery  is just as good as those players you mentioned at the same stage and the simple fact is hes miles behind them. ffs you compared him to those ruckmen and he just doesnt stack up to em.

No I didn't.

I said the 200cm plus guys played their best footy from 24-26.

I said Vickery's base so far is enough to indicate he will be a solid player.

Not comparing him to them at all, apart from the timeframe to start playing his best footy.

[big tone]

sandiland in his first 5 yrs didnt have less then 350 h/oand by yr 5 had over 600

assuming 600 is good footy and 300 is not

would the sentence "none of those types start to play good footy until 24-26 years of age." not ring true?

seeing as sandi got 300+ hitouts at 23ish years of age. and 600 hit outs at 30ish years of age. i dont believe the vibe of the statement is incorrect

compare vickery to the others even at the same stage  is just plain nonsense no stupidity.

maric goals p game  0.4
cox  0.5
sandi  0.4

vickery 1.2

three times more goals p game


*overall career

im not going to comment on this because i know your not really that stupid.

are you really saying vickery is a good ruckman and he has performed better than cox sandilands and maric as a ruckman at each stage of their careers. not even you are that silly.
i tell you what vi will just post random stats that without context can be made to mean anything.
we are talking about vickery as a ruckman here arent we. nearly 25 nearly 100games entering yr 7 and in the role hes been worse than hamspud. you know that bloke you want to delist.

I have said it before Claw, all you do is look at stats. No feel for the game.
You want to compare the best two ruckman of the last 5 to 10 years with a guy who plays part time in the ruck at present. Even choosing just tap outs of a bloke that is the biggest this game has seen is stupid. All some are saying is he is entering an age where someone of his size can now compete with others of the same height and weight.
I'm backing him in because I can see more than just stats, he has a long way to good to be as good as a Cox or Sandilands but if you are only going to compare tap outs then he will always be behind them two but when you combine what he does in the ruck as well as what he does up forward he IMO will be pretty good.
Anyway keep your head buried in the stats sheet if that makes you happy.

[the claw]

He is a baby in 200cm terms.

Look at Cox, Sandilands, Maric, even Charlie Dixon and none of those types start to play good footy until 24-26 years of age.

Vickery's base is very promising.

Cutting him now would be as smart as cutting a drafted midfielder after one season.

this is the quote i replied to.

as people can see im not the one who bought ruckmen into it. all i have done is point out that vickery after 6 yrs is well behind those guys. in fact hes well behind most other ruckmen at the same stages of their careers. hardly promising.

sandiland in his first 5 yrs didnt have less then 350 h/oand by yr 5 had over 600

assuming 600 is good footy and 300 is not

would the sentence "none of those types start to play good footy until 24-26 years of age." not ring true?

seeing as sandi got 300+ hitouts at 23ish years of age. and 600 hit outs at 30ish years of age. i dont believe the vibe of the statement is incorrect

compare vickery to the others even at the same stage  is just plain nonsense no stupidity.

maric goals p game  0.4
cox  0.5
sandi  0.4

vickery 1.2

three times more goals p game


*overall career

im not going to comment on this because i know your not really that stupid.

are you really saying vickery is a good ruckman and he has performed better than cox sandilands and maric as a ruckman at each stage of their careers. not even you are that silly.
i tell you what vi will just post random stats that without context can be made to mean anything.
we are talking about vickery as a ruckman here arent we. nearly 25 nearly 100games entering yr 7 and in the role hes been worse than hamspud. you know that bloke you want to delist.

I have said it before Claw, all you do is look at stats. No feel for the game.
You want to compare the best two ruckman of the last 5 to 10 years with a guy who plays part time in the ruck at present. Even choosing just tap outs of a bloke that is the biggest this game has seen is stupid. All some are saying is he is entering an age where someone of his size can now compete with others of the same height and weight.
I'm backing him in because I can see more than just stats, he has a long way to good to be as good as a Cox or Sandilands but if you are only going to compare tap outs then he will always be behind them two but when you combine what he does in the ruck as well as what he does up forward he IMO will be pretty good.
Anyway keep your head buried in the stats sheet if that makes you happy.

pppffftt what nonsense. you think i havent watched vickery play unbelievable. what is happeneing here is the stats very much backing up exactly what i have said AND SEE.

you need to actually watch em play with out blinkers on. you need to stop rating them on potential and actually rate em on what they do.while your trying to get better at it go compare him to others while your at it.

my eyes say hes been poo the stats back em up.but hey we cant have that can we. when the stats dont suit suddenly its you need to watch em play  its hilarious.

hes been ordinary to date in both roles hes performed. that is kpf and ruckman. theres no debating it because its a fact.and the stats back that up.
 hes shown very little continuous improvement as hes gone and has a heart the size of a pea.  after 6 yrs hes been  a failure.
 but hey  you keep on defending em tone after all you watch em real close dont ya, not that it does you any good if you think hes been good to date.

imo he would be the worst PERFORMED ruckman in the comp and that goes for juniors as well as seniors. as a ruckman hes abysmal.

[The Big Richo]

imo he would be the worst PERFORMED ruckman in the comp and that goes for juniors as well as seniors. as a ruckman hes abysmal.

Sorry Claw but if that is really what you think then there is little point even discussing it further as you are obviously incapable of understanding the game.

He isn't even the worst performed ruckman on our list.

[Judge Roughneck]

sandiland in his first 5 yrs didnt have less then 350 h/oand by yr 5 had over 600

assuming 600 is good footy and 300 is not

would the sentence "none of those types start to play good footy until 24-26 years of age." not ring true?

seeing as sandi got 300+ hitouts at 23ish years of age. and 600 hit outs at 30ish years of age. i dont believe the vibe of the statement is incorrect

compare vickery to the others even at the same stage  is just plain nonsense no stupidity.

maric goals p game  0.4
cox  0.5
sandi  0.4

vickery 1.2

three times more goals p game


*overall career

im not going to comment on this because i know your not really that stupid.

are you really saying vickery is a good ruckman

no i said

1.
as much as he gets bagged gets still good for a goal, even 'soft' goals

 2.
he could be a serviceable ruckman one day IMO. coincidental about the same time maric winds down. was better than orren and got hampson covered imo. dont think he'd the worst ruck in the league between maric and hopefully a new a draft ruck draft in the luengburger or natinui mold ideally.

and he has performed better than cox sandilands and maric as a ruckman at each stage of their careers.

again, no.

not even you are that silly.

praise from  Caesar 

i tell you what vi will just post random stats that without context can be made to mean anything.

ok

we are talking about vickery as a ruckman here arent we.

yes

. nearly 25 nearly 100games entering yr 7 and in the role hes been worse than hamspud

debatable

from limited opportunities my eyes tell me he is of more use around the ground due to skill and agility

you know that bloke you want to delist.

i wouldnt delist him unless we had another ruck option as you need a handful over the course of the season given worst case scenario

[Judge Roughneck]

pppffftt what nonsense. you think i havent watched vickery play unbelievable. what is happeneing here is the stats very much backing up exactly what i have said AND SEE.

Cox, Maric, Sanilands are primarly ruckman

Vickery is has been not played in the ruck too often over time as compared to forward line

hence including something like goals could even it up

i dont think anyone is saying vickery will be a ruckman in the elite category, for the record. i will re-read and cheak for us

you need to actually watch em play with out blinkers on. you need to stop rating them on potential and actually rate em on what they do.while your trying to get better at it go compare him to others while your at it.

my eyes say hes been poo the stats back em up.but hey we cant have that can we. when the stats dont suit suddenly its you need to watch em play  its hilarious.

perhaps go on a search for 'hitouts per minuet in the ruck' for a more accurate picture

i would assume vickery would not been going too good in a comparison, yet itd be a fairer use of stats than your current method

hes been ordinary to date in both roles hes performed. that is kpf and ruckman. theres no debating it because its a fact.and the stats back that up.
 hes shown very little continuous improvement as hes gone and has a heart the size of a pea.  after 6 yrs hes been  a failure.
 but hey  you keep on defending em tone after all you watch em real close dont ya, not that it does you any good if you think hes been good to date.

imo he would be the worst PERFORMED ruckman in the comp and that goes for juniors as well as seniors. as a ruckman hes abysmal.

same draft as vickery

tyone - 101 goals, 664 hitouts

watts - 73 goals, 33 hitouts
nic nat 71, shyte loads of hitouts
hurley 103,
lynch  51
roughead  12, 274
l anothny    27, 6
cornelius -    35 , 5 hitouts


we agree he is not tony lockett but is "hes been ordinary to date in both roles hes performed. that is kpf " really a fair comment when comparison to his draft pool? not too many young-ish talls running around outside the ' ordinary ' range is there?

imo he would be the worst PERFORMED ruckman in the comp and that goes for juniors as well as seniors. as a ruckman hes abysmal.

i disagree i reckon he'll be pretty handy down the track