We overate and fall in love with players

[Jackstar]

And thats the reason we are on the bottom 2JD

[2JD]

You mean it's my fault!!!!

[froars]

Yep, all your fault 2JD lol
Nothing to do with recruiting hacks and appointing pathetic coaches - it's all YOUR FAULT lol 

[julzqld]

"We overate and fall in love with players" .... and then we find out they are still going out with the same sheila from years past ... you'd think some people would learn

[2JD]

lol Julz, as long as she sticks with him when he's old and riddled with arthritis and complaining non stop about the pain. Best to stick with the fantasy, age can be a cruel thing. I mean, look at David Soul (Hutch) I'm so glad I didnt marry him when I was in love with him lol

[1980]

Great topic Jackstar.

Even though the Brownlow isn't the best gauge for a players worth, there is no denying that we overrate our players and i'm glad that the Brownlow medal votes we recieved backs that up.

In particualr it was telling with Ottens, who for all the good statistics he had, failed to have any impact in turning matches.

Also not surprising to see other overrated players like Krakouer not get a vote.

The worrying thing is that if there were votes for the best ten players on the ground, the players you listed probably still wouldn't have registered a vote!
 

The brownlow is not the best gauge, but it is a much better measure of an AFL footballer than a club's internal B&F. How many brownlow's did campbell win again?

[om21]

Fair point 1980 but in those years Campbell won it, not many others deserved it. In sayin that I agree with you but Im just a Campbell mark so I kinda get offended when guys hammer him yet we allow guys like Bowden to win B&Fs yet get congratulated.

A team is good when you have the majority of players beating their direct opponent......for me Richo did that consistently all year yet Bowden wins it.

Thats how I try to look at things....how consistently beat their opponent. Sadly, not many.

[JohnF]

Great topic Jackstar.

Even though the Brownlow isn't the best gauge for a players worth, there is no denying that we overrate our players and i'm glad that the Brownlow medal votes we recieved backs that up.

In particualr it was telling with Ottens, who for all the good statistics he had, failed to have any impact in turning matches.

Also not surprising to see other overrated players like Krakouer not get a vote.

The worrying thing is that if there were votes for the best ten players on the ground, the players you listed probably still wouldn't have registered a vote!
 

The brownlow is not the best gauge, but it is a much better measure of an AFL footballer than a club's internal B&F. How many brownlow's did campbell win again?

Come off it 1980! He has won as many Brownlows as Leigh Matthews, Wayne Carey and Gary Ablett combined!

Now when you have an award where players like Shane Woewodin, Shane Crawford, Scott Wynd are recipients and the game's best go home empty handed, you know its not the best guage of a player's worth!

I've said this before and i'll say it again, look how many votes Shane Woewodin has recieved in comparison to say someone like Paul Licuria. Woewodin would have double the votes at least. And yet he's not half the player Licuria is!

Or to take an example closer to home, lol, look how many votes in the Brownlow Matthew Knights got compared to Campbell, and WE ALL KNOW who the better player is.

Notwhithstanding this argument, the original point stands, we overrate and fall in love with players after pulling off a few good performances. In Brad's case, the Brownlow votes he got coincided with  what he is really worth.

[JohnF]

Oh and another thing, the reason I think Best and Fairests are a better gauge of a players worth than the Brownlow is that:

1. Umpies are fuched in the head
2. How can umpires decide who's been the best on ground when their job is to officiate and concentrate on not making wrong decisions?
3. You can be 4th or 5th best on ground 20 times a year and it won't show up in the brownlow count
4. Coaches track what their players do much better than what umpires can
5. Coaches are more adept at judging who done what was best for the team, whereas umpires are on the look out for who is the most flashy or individually brilliant
6. B&F's reward consistency not just a few good efforts that stand out - you could play 7 or 8 good games for the year and win the brownlow despite not doing anything else in the other games, you couldn't do that and win a B&F count.

[bg25]

Oh and another thing, the reason I think Best and Fairests are a better gauge of a players worth than the Brownlow is that:

1. Umpies are fuched in the head
2. How can umpires decide who's been the best on ground when their job is to officiate and concentrate on not making wrong decisions?
3. You can be 4th or 5th best on ground 20 times a year and it won't show up in the brownlow count
4. Coaches track what their players do much better than what umpires can
5. Coaches are more adept at judging who done what was best for the team, whereas umpires are on the look out for who is the most flashy or individually brilliant
6. B&F's reward consistency not just a few good efforts that stand out - you could play 7 or 8 good games for the year and win the brownlow despite not doing anything else in the other games, you couldn't do that and win a B&F count.

Very true JF. You look at every club's B & F and you'll find their best player for the year wins it...regardless of what OM21 says about Joel.

You could actually poll 1 vote in every round which would give you 22 votes and yet most years 22 votes won't win you the medal. So the umpires can deem you one of the best three players every week and you don't win....how fair's that?

[1980]

Great topic Jackstar.

Even though the Brownlow isn't the best gauge for a players worth, there is no denying that we overrate our players and i'm glad that the Brownlow medal votes we recieved backs that up.

In particualr it was telling with Ottens, who for all the good statistics he had, failed to have any impact in turning matches.

Also not surprising to see other overrated players like Krakouer not get a vote.

The worrying thing is that if there were votes for the best ten players on the ground, the players you listed probably still wouldn't have registered a vote!
 

The brownlow is not the best gauge, but it is a much better measure of an AFL footballer than a club's internal B&F. How many brownlow's did campbell win again?

Come off it 1980! He has won as many Brownlows as Leigh Matthews, Wayne Carey and Gary Ablett combined!

You cant compare Wayne Campbell to Matthews, Ablett or Carey. For one thing, they could never win a brownlow because they were always suspended. Campbell never gets suspended for no other reason than he's never gone in for a hard ball in his entire career.

Anyway, I just posted this cos I luv it when you get all worked up about him.

[om21]

Very true JF. You look at every club's B & F and you'll find their best player for the year wins it...regardless of what OM21 says about Joel.

If Bowden was better than Richo, Ill go hee.....I dont think Richo got beaten more than twice all year.

[mightytiges]

It was difficult to tell if Richo bet his opponent since it was hard to tell which of the six opponents on him all at once at most times were his direct one  .

[julzqld]

It was difficult to tell if Richo bet his opponent since it was hard to tell which of the six opponents on him all at once at most times were his direct one  .

So true.  Surely he must get the award for having the most opponents against him at one time.

[JohnF]

You cant compare Wayne Campbell to Matthews, Ablett or Carey. For one thing, they could never win a brownlow because they were always suspended. Campbell never gets suspended for no other reason than he's never gone in for a hard ball in his entire career.

Anyway, I just posted this cos I luv it when you get all worked up about him.

LOL, I can never resist....

True, Campbell isn't in the same stratosphere as Matthews, Ablett or Carey and he'll never get close to winning a Brownlow, but he is still a very good-borderline-great player and to say he doesn't go in for the hard ball is crap! Have a look at the amount of clearances he used to get despite being the number one player tagged, especially from around '97 to '02.   

I put Campbell in the same category of players such as Darryn Creswell, Adam Simpson and Cameron Ling. Solid players who do the job every week without much fanfare, but who are highly regarded and respected within the club they play(ed) for. These guys will never win a Brownlow, or come close to it, but they are all extremely good players at the very least.