CAN SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME......

[TigerTime]

why does daniel have to hijack every thread and degrade this site with his bs statements

[big tone]

TigerTime, TW is an easy target but the damage was done before and around him. Our recruiters should shoulder a lot of the blame for our current list as should our current leaders. TW should be held accountable fore his tactics and style of play which I feel are too advanced for our players atm.

We have had multiple discussions on this board about the sheer amount of players that TW has turned over in his time at the club and the amount of games he has invested into them. Many other teams have a young list but Richmond has more young players with AFL experience than any other club.

The reason for that is two fold, one - in an attempt to fast track their development and find out who would make it and two - because they were better options than the older players they were replacing. TW could and can only work with the players he is given but given the state of the list when he arrived and then the players he was given afterwards, he has done all he can to build a platform for future success.

One thing I do blame TW for is our game plan. There is a reason we have the lowest tackle count in the league, struggle with the 1% and appear very individualistic. Terry's game plan revolves around winning the hard-ball and clearnaces and quick movement of the ball into the forwardline. What is fails to achieve his the offensive defense that the ball carrier needs, particularly now with the rolling zone, to create space to execute unpressured kicks and handballs. The reason we turn the ball over so much, have so many clangers, rush our desposals and look for shorter options is because we leave the ball carrier unprotected.

TW needs to encourage (which I believe he is starting to do more now) our players to shepherd, block and protect the ball carrier then they would have more time and space to look for longer options and deliver the ball more skillfully to their target. This is a problem for our team.

The other big factor in our lack of success is ourll 'culture' which is passed down from the leadership group to the younger players each year. Our leaders are leading the team but leading them in the wrong way and modelling to them the wrong attitude and style of play.

For all his skills and level headedness, Bowden is a blight on our side. He plays completely the opposite to which TW wants the team too - holds up the ball, waits until the opposition have settled, looks for the uncontested target then runs forward to recieve the ball again while the opposition set up comfortably further up the ground. Bowden is not a risk taker which is required essential in todays game and while he may rack up the uncontested possessions and recieve the handballs as he runs to assist the ball carrier, he will never try and break the lines, block, shepherd, tackle or do any of the 1%. He is a strong personality but he is a poor player and poor leader.

Richo is another individualistic player as is Brown and Simmonds. We need good leadership from players of the ilk of Hodge, Voss etc. I hope someone such as Cogs can regain form because he would be the type we need. If Riewoldt and Cotchin can step up soon they could also be just the type of leaders we need, I just hope they don't catch the Richmond 'culture-disease' before that time.

So while you might say what has TW done in his 5 years at the club and point to our win-loss ratio and form of the kids at the moment, the facts remain that TW has less to do with our current predictament than our leadership and past recruiters.

If we are lacking confidence and the leaders give the team no hope and don't support the coach's message then who's fault is that.

I still support TW but just wish he would change that game plan before it is too late.

Stripes

So according to Stripes the only thing Terry has done wrong in the 4 and a bit years is have a game plan that is to advanced for our players, that he has had nothing to do with in drafting!
Not only that, he has the nerve to call our best 2 players of the last 10 years, 'individualistic'. They both deserve better than that!
You Stripes make my blood boil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! even more than Terry Wallace.
Get your head out of your ass!

[mat073]

What makes my blood boil is the fact that Richo is "Off Limits" to so many posters on this forum.I love Richo as much as the next tiger supporter but he is not infallible.So What if Stripes called him individualistic.Richo is a champion of our club but he does have flaws to his game.In four games this year he has had only one tackle.(While playing half the time in the midfield) What example does that set for the rest of the team ?

For the record I consider Stripes to be one of the most intelligent articulate posters on this forum.

[Ox]

For the record I consider Stripes to be one of the most intelligent articulate posters on this forum.

So does he.

Stripes.

[big tone]

What makes my blood boil is the fact that Richo is "Off Limits" to so many posters on this forum.I love Richo as much as the next tiger supporter but he is not infallible.So What if Stripes called him individualistic.Richo is a champion of our club but he does have flaws to his game.In four games this year he has had only one tackle.(While playing half the time in the midfield) What example does that set for the rest of the team ?

For the record I consider Stripes to be one of the most intelligent articulate posters on this forum.

No one said Richo was "off limits", don't do that mat73. If you have read some of my posts lately you will see that i stated that his kicking was very average and that bad kicking was bad footy.
What i don't understand is some peanut calling him individualistic, sure he has some down falls i.e. kicking at goal and tackling like you said BUT individualistic no! He has put his heart and soul into this club and deserves a little more respect than that.
He is a champion like you said but that does not mean champions don't have weak parts to there game.
Would you call Richo individualistic mat73?

[Go Richo 12]

As someone on the ABC said, a commentater that is, if we had a team full of Richos we would be undefeated! Richo is a poor shot on goal and to make it worse, he misses at vital times. So does Buddy and he is a premiership player. The thing is, Richo seems to be the only player who seems to care about poor skills (read dummy spits) and he has an ability to come back from injury better than anyone. He has probably taken more contested marks in the history of the game and undoubtedly,  more than the current crop of players. He has been the face of our club since debut. He is without doubt the most popular player's player and i would think supporter's player too!He is an allround good bloke.800 goals, close to 300 games, nearly a brownlow at 33 years of age. I think he deserves to be off limits.

[Harry]

im just looking for hope, and be honest , if those answers are good enough for you after 4 plus years , thats fine. But it does not wash me me, those answers dont really give terry a pass mark, nor the players.
i just find it really frustrating that we have to start rebuilding all over again, and it pains me to say that the last 5 years have been a waste , i was so optimistic and ecstatic when terry came on board, but now i feel the same way i did when danny was in his last year .

is it wrong to search for anything that has been positive and a winner that terry has done, cos right now i cant think of many

So you want hope TigerTime. Here is some - stop believing in all the media and (so-called) experts opinions and hype stating how bad we are as a club and playing list. This is rubbish aimed at dragging the club into making a reactionary decision on the club to either sell more papers and flood talk-back radio or destable the club once again.

Four weeks (hard to believe it was only a month now) a go all the media and experts had all fighting for the 2009 flag and painting us in a positive light now the same people have done a backflip and are stating we are a basket case. Come on! Clubs, teams and coaches don't change like that overnight. The reality is is that we are somewhere in the middle, not a top 4 side but not a wooden spoon team also.

We have begun the season poorly. The media hype effected our young team adversely and we did not turn up to play. After all the hype it was a huge let down for everyone in the AFL world especially for us as supporters. This disappointment was then backed up by games against two very strong teams where we preformed poorly and all of a sudden the media backup story of TW demise kicked in. The Melbourne loss came directly on the back of our players believing all the hype and negative publicity and losing faith in the game plan, each other and themselves. This is when strong leadership was required.

The media set this up beautifuly building the club up over the preseason so we had such a long way to fall when we lost a few games.

The positives remains is that we have a very talented list to build a great team from. They need confidence, leadership and further development but they are still a good young list. Players such as Bling, Polo, Lids and most young players need encouragement and confidence to perform at their best and they need leaders around them on the field and off to boost them up. The talent and potential is there, they just need to regain their sense of invincibility and purpose.

Don't lose hope, success still remain just around the corner.....

Stripes

no disrespect but this is crap.

Blaming the media is a total cop out.  It was Wallaces responsibility to get the players ready during the pre-season for round one and he failed.  God only knows what they were doing during the pre-season.

Also you harp on about a young talented list we have.  Who are you referring to?  You name Bling, Deledio and Polo.  Bling is very ordinary and has been given enough support and encouragement and has shown he's very average.  He won't be a solid, consistent top line player and the sooner the club realises this the better.  Deledio I agree will be a great player and Polo will be serviceable at best.  I'll add Cotchin, Connors and perhaps Collins as small/medium/on-ballers with potential.  Foley is a senior, Thomson maybe, and Hislop is a big worry.  It pretty mch dries up there in terms of young talented on-ballers.  We are in big strife going forward in this area.  Our tall backs are in decent shape with McGuane, Thursfield, Moore, Rance, and Post, but our forwards are in a shocking state with Riewoldt the only half decent young forward with potential.  Look at the other clubs, and you can see that they al have good kids coming through, most of who have more and better.   

Wallace has failed to rebuild this club and his desire for instant self gratification and unwillingness for hardwork through the draft has resulted in him, deservedly, facing the axe.  It can't come quick enough.

[Infamy]

I'd hardly call Foley a senior, he's what 23-24?

[tiger till i die]

I think that we were slowly getting better during the years of Wallace. The Ben cuzins came along and all the clubs attentions were on him ! and should have been on the players team work !

[Stripes]

Wow! See what happens when you don't read the forum for a couple of days!

Big Tone - Richo is an out and out champion of the club that bleeds yellow and black and is a fantastic bloke all round - that is indesputable. When I say he is 'individualistic' I think you need to read my explanation more carefully. What I am saying is that he looks to win every battle, every mark, every contest on his own.

When Richo plays in the forwardline he only has eyes for the ball. If he is in the pocket the ball is kicked to a leading Schulz etc he will race to the contest, crash the pack and attempt to take the mark himself. This is why Schulz has been injuried so many times by the big fellow and why playing them side by side is unworkable to date.

I don't think Richo plays a team orientated game. In the example above he wouldn't think to shepherd out Schulz's defender, or make a dummy lead to give the other forwards more space to lead. Richo is an incredible mark but his frequent poor kicking often hinders the team on the score board and in terms of morale too.

He has shouldered much of the resposibility of the team for years now and been the face of the club but he has flaws as we all have said. We need to start to look to the future now and see if Richo, despite all the assets he brings to the team, is in fact doing more harm than good to the younger players through his example and team structures.

There is no doubt that we were a better team when Richo was moved out of the forwardline. We became less predictable instantly, had a broader range of gaols kickers and had a tall marking option/link player on the wing. This should have been done years a go to allow our young forwards a chance to develop because the presence of the big fellow swallowed up all the F50 deliveries (and good help the midfielder who looked beyond Richo to another forward!) and all the space in the 50 (as I have already refered to with Rich running from anywhere to take the grab).

I think its too late now, but if Richo could develop a defensive game to compliment his offensive game then he would be unstoppable but the facts remain that he doesn't tackle, he doesn't shepherd, he does dummy lead, he doesn't block and he doesn't lead the lead the team. If he did he would have been made captain decades a go.

Our senior players need to lead through word and deed, and despite their obvious strengths they have the same glaring weaknesses that have been dragging down this team for decades. We need our champions to do the 1% if we ever hope our young developing players will and if they can't then judgements need to be made if we have any chance for future success.

Stripes
(a.k.a peanut)

[Stripes]

For the record I consider Stripes to be one of the most intelligent articulate posters on this forum.

So does he.

Stripes.

Ox, anyone who trade marks his name shouldn't be saying others have tickets on themselves now should they....

STRIPES

PS Thanks mat073 for the support and comment, I'll pay you later!

[TigerTime]

For the record I consider Stripes to be one of the most intelligent articulate posters on this forum.

So does he.

Stripes.

Ox, anyone who trade marks his name shouldn't be saying others have tickets on themselves now should they....

STRIPES

PS Thanks mat073 for the support and comment, I'll pay you later!

 

[Stripes]

no disrespect but this is crap.

Blaming the media is a total cop out.  It was Wallaces responsibility to get the players ready during the pre-season for round one and he failed.  God only knows what they were doing during the pre-season.

Also you harp on about a young talented list we have.  Who are you referring to?  You name Bling, Deledio and Polo.  Bling is very ordinary and has been given enough support and encouragement and has shown he's very average.  He won't be a solid, consistent top line player and the sooner the club realises this the better.  Deledio I agree will be a great player and Polo will be serviceable at best.  I'll add Cotchin, Connors and perhaps Collins as small/medium/on-ballers with potential.  Foley is a senior, Thomson maybe, and Hislop is a big worry.  It pretty mch dries up there in terms of young talented on-ballers.  We are in big strife going forward in this area.  Our tall backs are in decent shape with McGuane, Thursfield, Moore, Rance, and Post, but our forwards are in a shocking state with Riewoldt the only half decent young forward with potential.  Look at the other clubs, and you can see that they al have good kids coming through, most of who have more and better.   

Wallace has failed to rebuild this club and his desire for instant self gratification and unwillingness for hardwork through the draft has resulted in him, deservedly, facing the axe.  It can't come quick enough.

Harry, I can understand your view point. I'm not trying to shift the blame away from TW in fact I think we will probably be better off now with a new coach. What I wa trying to say is that the media deliberately built up the hype to take advantage of the Richmond faithfuls fantastism - if we were success they would have sold papers on the wave of positivity but if we lost, well they could always rely on the Tigers bitter disappointment and Eat'or'own attitude.

I lay the blame fore our losses on our players and coach. TW should have placed the players in a 'bubble' before the Carlton game, reduced the hype and ensured they were mentally prepared and focused. He didn't. Tw should have also not attempted to change our defense tactics to mimic Hawthorns because, as we have all witnessed now, other teams are prepared/drilled to work there way through a zone and we are not drilled, lead, coach or committed to executed the tactic.

The differnce between our list and other more successful clubs is our confidence and culture. When Tambling first cam to the club he was fantastic but then he was injuried and self doubt crept in. As a club we should have enabled him to have recaptured that confidence by now but instead he has gone the other way. This is just one example of many and is the most important factor in our good players going forward.

I think TW has done his job in terms of starting the rebuild but I think we now have to hand over the reins to a coach who can instill the mental strengths, capabilities, strategies and confidence to go forward.

Sorry if you disagree

Stripes

[big tone]

Wow! See what happens when you don't read the forum for a couple of days!

Big Tone - Richo is an out and out champion of the club that bleeds yellow and black and is a fantastic bloke all round - that is indesputable. When I say he is 'individualistic' I think you need to read my explanation more carefully. What I am saying is that he looks to win every battle, every mark, every contest on his own.

When Richo plays in the forwardline he only has eyes for the ball. If he is in the pocket the ball is kicked to a leading Schulz etc he will race to the contest, crash the pack and attempt to take the mark himself. This is why Schulz has been injuried so many times by the big fellow and why playing them side by side is unworkable to date.

I don't think Richo plays a team orientated game. In the example above he wouldn't think to shepherd out Schulz's defender, or make a dummy lead to give the other forwards more space to lead. Richo is an incredible mark but his frequent poor kicking often hinders the team on the score board and in terms of morale too.

He has shouldered much of the resposibility of the team for years now and been the face of the club but he has flaws as we all have said. We need to start to look to the future now and see if Richo, despite all the assets he brings to the team, is in fact doing more harm than good to the younger players through his example and team structures.

There is no doubt that we were a better team when Richo was moved out of the forwardline. We became less predictable instantly, had a broader range of gaols kickers and had a tall marking option/link player on the wing. This should have been done years a go to allow our young forwards a chance to develop because the presence of the big fellow swallowed up all the F50 deliveries (and good help the midfielder who looked beyond Richo to another forward!) and all the space in the 50 (as I have already refered to with Rich running from anywhere to take the grab).

I think its too late now, but if Richo could develop a defensive game to compliment his offensive game then he would be unstoppable but the facts remain that he doesn't tackle, he doesn't shepherd, he does dummy lead, he doesn't block and he doesn't lead the lead the team. If he did he would have been made captain decades a go.

Our senior players need to lead through word and deed, and despite their obvious strengths they have the same glaring weaknesses that have been dragging down this team for decades. We need our champions to do the 1% if we ever hope our young developing players will and if they can't then judgements need to be made if we have any chance for future success.

Stripes
(a.k.a peanut)

May just have to agree to disagree because i disagree with all of your last post.
Richo not being named captain this year is just another one of TW's many mistakes. (does decade mean 10 years, if so decades must mean 20years or more)  
What amazes me about you Stripes, with the start of the season the way it has gone, you want Terry to be resigned and you want to attack Richo as a player and a champion of our club.
Anyway like i said, agree to disagree.  

[big tone]

no disrespect but this is crap.

Blaming the media is a total cop out.  It was Wallaces responsibility to get the players ready during the pre-season for round one and he failed.  God only knows what they were doing during the pre-season.

Also you harp on about a young talented list we have.  Who are you referring to?  You name Bling, Deledio and Polo.  Bling is very ordinary and has been given enough support and encouragement and has shown he's very average.  He won't be a solid, consistent top line player and the sooner the club realises this the better.  Deledio I agree will be a great player and Polo will be serviceable at best.  I'll add Cotchin, Connors and perhaps Collins as small/medium/on-ballers with potential.  Foley is a senior, Thomson maybe, and Hislop is a big worry.  It pretty mch dries up there in terms of young talented on-ballers.  We are in big strife going forward in this area.  Our tall backs are in decent shape with McGuane, Thursfield, Moore, Rance, and Post, but our forwards are in a shocking state with Riewoldt the only half decent young forward with potential.  Look at the other clubs, and you can see that they al have good kids coming through, most of who have more and better.   

Wallace has failed to rebuild this club and his desire for instant self gratification and unwillingness for hardwork through the draft has resulted in him, deservedly, facing the axe.  It can't come quick enough.

Harry, I can understand your view point. I'm not trying to shift the blame away from TW in fact I think we will probably be better off now with a new coach. What I wa trying to say is that the media deliberately built up the hype to take advantage of the Richmond faithfuls fantastism - if we were success they would have sold papers on the wave of positivity but if we lost, well they could always rely on the Tigers bitter disappointment and Eat'or'own attitude.

I lay the blame fore our losses on our players and coach. TW should have placed the players in a 'bubble' before the Carlton game, reduced the hype and ensured they were mentally prepared and focused. He didn't. Tw should have also not attempted to change our defense tactics to mimic Hawthorns because, as we have all witnessed now, other teams are prepared/drilled to work there way through a zone and we are not drilled, lead, coach or committed to executed the tactic.

The differnce between our list and other more successful clubs is our confidence and culture. When Tambling first cam to the club he was fantastic but then he was injuried and self doubt crept in. As a club we should have enabled him to have recaptured that confidence by now but instead he has gone the other way. This is just one example of many and is the most important factor in our good players going forward.

I think TW has done his job in terms of starting the rebuild but I think we now have to hand over the reins to a coach who can instill the mental strengths, capabilities, strategies and confidence to go forward.

Sorry if you disagree

Stripes

Thank you