Author Topic: What Game Plan should we be playing?  (Read 1651 times)

Offline Stripes

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What Game Plan should we be playing?
« on: April 22, 2009, 03:54:21 PM »
For the past 5 years we have recruited a good mix of players and player types.  Another recruitment priority though was to find players that would best execute TWs game plan, which is to move the ball quickly by foot, hand and with pace. As a result we know have many players who can run but have smaller frames and size at the moment.

Our current game plan has been extremely successful for Coburg and many teams such as Geelong have played a variant of it for years. The game plan revolves around running in numbers, providing options by hand through the corridor before kicking it quickly into the forwardline. It demands constant ball movement, playing on and breaking the lines. Hard Ball gets around stoppages are essential before moving it out to a spreading player in space who pinpoints a leading option up forward.

My question to you is -

Knowing our list but understanding the way the competition has turned with move physical, crowded defensive what type of game plan should we be developing?

plus

what players currently fit your prefered game plan, which could fit the plan and which should be moved on?

I'll be interested to hear peoples opinions

Stripes

Offline TigerLand

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Re: What Game Plan should we be playing?
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2009, 04:43:48 PM »
Great Post Stripes!

I'm too old school for today's game I think, as my game plan may not work but here goes.

Nothing beats man on man football if you train and recruit for the best contested footballers in the country.

If you had players like Campbell Brown in the packs, Chris Judd around Stoppages, Matthew Richardson taking contested grabs, Eddie Betts crumbing, Cyril Rioli playing defensive forward locking the ball in, Brett Kirk tagging out there best player you'd be better than worse. And yes I have just labeled an All Star team but surely that's something you aim for and they are just examples.

It's no secret that the St.kilda are sitting top and are the best contested ball winners in the competetion.

Man on man no linked players as every man has a man to defend this enables:

Your team mates kicking it to you regardless if you have a man on you or not (zone), as they are confident you'll win a contested ball.
You don't get killed on the counter as each player is manned up accordingly and every player is accountable.
Decision making is simple and advancing the football becomes more important then possession of the ball.

Forces the opposition to kick to contests or run hard or kicking to space which forces the possibility of a contest at ground level.




I'm old school and I just think this works every time regardless of how the game has evolved instead of trying to be innovative and copy Hawthorns zone cause it fluked 1 premiership.
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Offline TigerTime

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Re: What Game Plan should we be playing?
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2009, 04:44:19 PM »
we play our best footy when we go man on man, forget this zone poo

Offline the_boy_jake

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Re: What Game Plan should we be playing?
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2009, 05:04:45 PM »

Our current game plan has been extremely successful for Coburg and many teams such as Geelong have played a variant of it for years. The game plan revolves around running in numbers, providing options by hand through the corridor before kicking it quickly into the forwardline. It demands constant ball movement, playing on and breaking the lines. Hard Ball gets around stoppages are essential before moving it out to a spreading player in space who pinpoints a leading option up forward.

THIS is the gameplan we should be playing, but its not what we do play.

Our current gameplan is to move the ball through uncontested possessions through half-back until we find a free man or create an overlap on the wing. At this point we move the ball down the wing and look for a wide lead in the F50. There's nothing about the corridor in our current gameplan. By the time we've created a situation where we can move the ball forward the opposition have numbers back and even when we do penetrate the corridor we have to spot a wide lead from the forwards. Our focus on uncontested footy has sapped the enthusiasm and hard running out of our game. When we do try and break quickly through a target in the corridor, our poor skills generally lead to a contensted situation which we invariably lose, one may presume from lack of practice.

Offline TigerLand

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Re: What Game Plan should we be playing?
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2009, 05:14:23 PM »
I think the zone, counter acts the running game and you don't have space to run into which completely kills the Wallace 5 year plan of recruiting quick ball receivers into the side.
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Offline Jobba

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Re: What Game Plan should we be playing?
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2009, 10:23:05 PM »
My first post, so beware, it could just be all a pile of nonsense.  :-\

I think everyone who has said to go away from the zone is correct for all the above reasons. But for me, from a realistic stand point, if we force a turnover by opposition teams we still have the problem of pushing forward with a lot of players in a relatively small spaces. This relies on extemely good footskills and decision making which is something that has obviously been lacking from our game over the first 4 rounds. Also, this could work if you had a bruiser of a lead up forward aka Johnothan Brown or someone who could at least take a contested mark. With Richo playing wherever he wants and no Cleve Hughes, we basically leave Riewoldt to do the sole crashing of packs IF we were to go long. Obviously, having no superior crumming forwards makes it hard.

Also, there has been much media speculation over Wallace's reign regarding pressure; especially late last year when Bowden was dropped for not getting a tackle stat for an entire game. The Zone takes you out of pressure in terms of tackling. Not just because of the fact your defending an area as opposed to a player, but the whole premise of a zone is to let them make the mistake themselves, as opposed to we will put insurmountable pressure on you so your forced to make a mistake. The identity of defensive pressure that we have through the zone takes away alot of a pressurous mindset. I'm not talking with this point from solely a football perspective, but also from a basketball standpoint which the concept of the zone originates from.

In terms of offensive gameplan, for me it should feed from a defensive pressure, or our ability to win the ball in the middle. Neither of these we have established, but at least one is due to lack of personel, the other is a lack of will. I remember a distinct play in the doggies game, can't remember who spoiled the ball, but it went to Delidio at CHB. Lids turned on the jets, took a couple of bounces, hit a lead up wing, who hit a lead up player on the forward stuff who hit up Matty White running into the goal square. Call me crazy, but why can't that simple bit of football be our gameplan? Run and carry, kick the ball to a lead up contest instead of holding it up and looking for another uncontested possession which inevitbaly means we kick it backwards, and everyone runs forward? Really there are two plays (this is a basketball quote that I've tweaked for football purposes) Romeo and Juliet and kick the F****** ball through the goals. I watch Geelong and The Doggies play their brand of footy, and whats so genius about it is its simple. This zone stuff that we run has seem to take the pressure out of the game, which takes the simplicity out of football which leaves players a) lacking in confidence but also b) forced to constantly make complex decisions. Face facts, we don't have 22 brilliant decision makes hitting the park each week, so why play a style of footy that is so complex?

For me, every sports team whether it be Soccer, NFL, AFL, Basketball, Netball what have you, the best teams have an identity. The best teams make the game look easy. The reasons why? Because it is easy.

May have gotten off topic a little there, but hopefully I put my points accross.

Offline bojangles17

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Re: What Game Plan should we be playing?
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2009, 10:25:38 PM »
whatever the plan was in 2008, we found the groove....why change :-\
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Offline Stripes

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Re: What Game Plan should we be playing?
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2009, 03:44:13 PM »
Good first up post Jobba!  :thumbsup

I agree with you all that our current game plan is just not working for our players, especially against the zone. As Popelord stated we were very successful at the end of last year playing a more man-on-man style but got cute over summer and tried to emulate Hawthorns rolling zone defence (and we were not alone) which has proved a weakness to this stage of the year.

I agree that we need a combination of our run and carry game and a more physical defensive style. I can only, once again, point to Geelong who set up at the backline and run in waves, playing on at all costs, straight through the midfield to give their relatively weak forwardline plenty of opportunity.

So what is the big difference between them and us? Besides being a premiership side they hard much more advanced on average physically and they are extremely team oriented with a very settled team who understand each others game instinctually. You might say skills & decision making as well but I think these come on the back of the two I already mentioned.

Geelong look skillful because they protect the ball carrier and know where each other is going to lead and run. They never doubt they will not be shepherded or that someone will not fufill their role. Alot of our disposal errors are made because of the pressure (actual or percieved) they are placed under by the opposition. Similiarly the Geelong team seem to react quicker and make better decisions when they just know what their teammates are predictably doing/running and respond without needing to think much at all. Conversely, the Tigers never know who is going to play along side them let alone what they will be doing. This is as more to do with many players not playing consistantly good football (even our senior players struggle with that!) than anything else.

So I think we can develop into a team like Geelong, but we need to add far more physicality to our style of play and get rid of the full zone. Players such as McMahon, Brown, Bowden who do not have the physical side to their game and/or struggle to run the ball forward may need to be moved on.

I have always been a big supporter of TW but I feel know he either has to make drastic changes to his game plan, particularly, defensively, or we need a new coach who can make the required changes.

Stripes

Offline mightytiges

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Re: What Game Plan should we be playing?
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2009, 08:55:00 PM »
You need to first strip back things to the basics as we don't do the basics. Until you do that then any gameplan that is implemented will fail.

You need to protect the ballwinner/ballcarrier in terms of teammates shepherding and blocking to give him that extra sec of time and space to win, spot and deliver the footy.

Mids and HFs upfield need to offer lead-up options spreading in a direction TOWARDS the ballcarrier rather than just spreading away from him.

To get those leading options upfield you need to move the ball on quickly to put the opposition defensive set-ups out of whack as they don't have the time to properly set-up and that enables you to find holes and space to exploit. That way you get the ball forward and set up scoring opportunities more easily and in better goalscoring positions. Likewise in defence from a kick-in you move the ball quickly so you aren't left with just the option of short little nothing kicks one after the other before you clear the defensive 50. We are the slowest side getting the ball out of there  :scream.

You also want a "reset" option that the ballcarrier can go (back) to when in trouble so you maintain possession before going again.

Plus a long option. Kicking long to a 50/50 contest inside forward 50 (1-v-1, 2-v-2, ...) should not be discouraged especially if it's 1-v-1. The ballcarrier's kick should  ::) be to the advantage of his forward teammate to turn it into a 60-40 contest.  You at least want the forward to bring the ball down in front of him and have teammate(s) front and square at the contest to either win the ball or apply forward defensive pressure to keep the ball in your forward line. It might be old school but it's still playing the percentages.

This is all just risk strategy applied to footy. It's nothing too difficult to understand  :-\.

Jake's summary is spot on as to how we are playing now.


there are two plays (this is a basketball quote that I've tweaked for football purposes) Romeo and Juliet and kick the F****** ball through the goals.
I like that quote Jobba :lol  :thumbsup
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Offline big tone

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Re: What Game Plan should we be playing?
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2009, 09:32:45 PM »
I know we will be playing a lot more one on one this weekend against the Kangas.

Offline one-eyed

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Re: What Game Plan should we be playing?
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2009, 06:11:05 AM »
Footy is a simple game when you are proactive and get first hands on the ball. Sadly we've only been able to do so for only a quarter at most in the games so far this year  :scream.


Believe it or not, the Tigers have been the team best able to break down the Cats system.

How? Because they got their hands on the ball first.

Richmond out-muscled the Cats in the clinches during the third quarter of their round two match up winning 35 contested possessions to Geelong's 15 and 11 clearances to seven.

The Tiges were able to slam on eight goals four to three goals two for the quarter.

It eventually took a Cat power quarter in the last to slay the Tigers.

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2009/04/24/65351_gfc.html

Offline wayne

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Re: What Game Plan should we be playing?
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2009, 11:50:23 AM »
 :lol A Cat 'power' quarter! It was a Tiger 'go to sleep' quarter.

I saw this gameplan in a movie once (altered for AFL)...

The Flying V

Where all 18 backline players run down the ground in much the same manner as a stuff of ducks, the ball being passed around between the team.  :lol

It got the Mighty Ducks a win!  :lol
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Offline mat073

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Re: What Game Plan should we be playing?
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2009, 02:52:10 PM »
My level of expertise does not lend to critiquing game plans.I tend to watch games,support the team and hope for the best.However I will say that we have to implement some form of defensive pressure to our game plan.

After four rounds St Kilda has 3 of the top 5 players in terms of tackle count.Their record this year speaks for itself.

One of the best things about supporting Richmond in the good old days of 1995 was you knew that opposition teams expected a genuine
physical contest when they played the tigers.How I long for a return to those days.
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Online camboon

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Re: What Game Plan should we be playing?
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2009, 11:37:21 PM »
MMM - this subject is worth looking at again after tonights win!

Offline TigerTime

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Re: What Game Plan should we be playing?
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2009, 11:22:03 AM »
we play our best footy when we go man on man, forget this zone poo

we played mostly man on man and we won!