Francis Jackson and the recruiters

[Ramps]

Any reason we should keep him on and for that matter any reason we should keep on the other recruiters?

[Francois Jackson]

Any reason we should keep him on and for that matter any reason we should keep on the other recruiters?

NO

complete clean out is required heading into another rebuilding 3 years.

[Jackstar is back]

i could do a better job for half the cost

[mightytiges]

Which kids should we aim for Jack in the upcoming November draft?


Anyway onto Ramps question - I think you also have to look at Craig Cameron as he is our football manager with the job of overseeing the footy dept from the coaches to the recruiters and define a long-term course as far as list management. I mean I hope in this review they are handing down soon there's an answer as to why despite changing the head of our football dept. we as a club still made the same old dumb short cut to trade away picks for recycled players who couldn't get in their original club's 22 and despite us being 1-6 can't get in our 22 either  and why we again drafted so few kids in the National draft even though it's the only way to access the best and most talented kids in the country and bring them to the club. 5 kids in the past two National drafts means we effectively missed a draft when other rebuilding clubs are taking 5-6 kids in each draft.

You've also got to ask what are our current resources as far as scouts on the ground providing reports on TAC Cup, WAFL and SANFL games etc and how many do they need to be to be up with the well resourced clubs. It's been mentioned in the past Hawthorn would have 4 spotters at a TAC Cup game providing individual reports compared to our one.

As for Francis Jackson - his record so far is in terms of spotting youth (non-AFL, VFL and trades):
2006 - Riewoldt, Edwards, Connors, Collins, Peterson, Clingan (r)
2007 - Cotchin, Rance, Putt, Gourdis (psd)
2008 - Vickery, Post, Browne (r), Gilligan (r)

I'm presuming the others were made by the footy manager at the time (Miller or Cameron) or Wallace:
2006 - Polak, Kingsley (psd), King (r)
2007 - McMahon, Morton, Collard (r), Silvester (r), Cartledge (r)
2008 - Thomson, Hislop, Cousins (psd), Nahas (r)

I didn't include 2005 as FJ was only working part-time at the time helping out Miller.

[Ramps]

The smokie for me for us in the 2nd round is Ben Griffiths, hopefully he lasts that long. Depending on what pick we get in R1 it should be Butcher or Scully, beyond that its too hard to tell at the moment

[Stripes]

If we bottom out this year, I believe we will find ourselves in the same rebuilding situation as Hawthorn did in 2004. They had bottomed out years before and recruited midfielders such as Hodge and Mitchell (r) but in the 2004 draft they were looking for quality forwards/talls and due to their good recruiters (or our poor ones) they secured two.

This draft we need quality forwards, plain and simple. It is our biggest deficiency and is what we desperately require to round off the list. I still think our midfield will be a force in the future - (Lids, Cotch, Foley, White, Bling, Collins and Cogs) and our backline is still young - (McGuane, Rance, Moore, Thursfield, Raines, Newman). Our rucks are improving and may prove to be one of our strongest components to our team in the future - (Gus, Vickery and Browne) but our forwardline has no tall forwards of any worth - (Morton, Nahas, Riewoldt, .........????) We have no one who even looks like they will step up as a tall forward.

Our recruiters have recruited the right type of players over the past few years but the quality and development of these players is the big question.

Perhaps the recruiters aren't the problem but the development coaches are..... ???

Stripes

[blaisee]

i could do a better job for half the cost

hahaha


you could pay the club what FJ earns and you still wouldnt get the job

[Francois Jackson]

If we bottom out this year, I believe we will find ourselves in the same rebuilding situation as Hawthorn did in 2004. They had bottomed out years before and recruited midfielders such as Hodge and Mitchell (r) but in the 2004 draft they were looking for quality forwards/talls and due to their good recruiters (or our poor ones) they secured two.

This draft we need quality forwards, plain and simple. It is our biggest deficiency and is what we desperately require to round off the list. I still think our midfield will be a force in the future - (Lids, Cotch, Foley, White, Bling, Collins and Cogs) and our backline is still young - (McGuane, Rance, Moore, Thursfield, Raines, Newman). Our rucks are improving and may prove to be one of our strongest components to our team in the future - (Gus, Vickery and Browne) but our forwardline has no tall forwards of any worth - (Morton, Nahas, Riewoldt, .........????) We have no one who even looks like they will step up as a tall forward.

Our recruiters have recruited the right type of players over the past few years but the quality and development of these players is the big question.

Perhaps the recruiters aren't the problem but the development coaches are..... ???

Stripes

okay no worries

the recruiting of Mcmahon, Thompson and that idiot Hislop says so much about whats wrong with our footy club.

Development is a big issue but the buck stops with recruiting

We chose plugging holes through rejects at other clubs insetad of opting for youth. This was the biggets downfall of our club in the last 4 years.

[Stripes]

McMahon was a bad call by TW to give us more run and deliver off the half back. While he hasn't been the worst at the club I agree that he certainly didn't warrant the pick given up for him.

Hislop and Thomson were depth players who went high in previous drafts. The theory was/is that with the right amount of development and coaching they would come on and who knows this may well happen...but not with our current coaches it would seem.

In regards to our other drafting, the recruiters have aimed a filling holes and covering deficencies in the team which they have done but as I said in my last post, the debate is whether these players will develop into capable players. The average is that 30% won't but you can usually expect players taken in the first round would make it and this is where the recruiters (& Miller in particular) have failed with players like Meyer, JON and Patto if you are looking for quality.

Stripes

[mightytiges]

You should only trade for players if you believe they will be part of your next premiership side. Clearly our trades were done to top-up instead to add only depth (at Coburg ) which is why they are always failed decisions. What's most concerning is we brought in Cameron to take list management and recruiting out of the coach's hands so the long-term health of our list was put before the short-term demands of the coach yet we still make the exact same dumb trading decisions  . Wallace will be gone shortly but has Cameron got another 4 years?

I agree Stripes there are similarities between us now and Hawthorn in the last years under Schwab. It'd be nice if we could trade with the GC like Hawthorn did with North to get more top picks.

The smokie for me for us in the 2nd round is Ben Griffiths, hopefully he lasts that long. Depending on what pick we get in R1 it should be Butcher or Scully, beyond that its too hard to tell at the moment

Griffiths has been injured for the past month and will probably miss the start of the U18 champs so he could slip.

[bojangles17]

I reckon we have taken a step forward under FJ...dont dismiss the impact of the coach on recruiting, he requests certain types that need to fill holes on the list EG McMahon and more recently Hislop and thomo

[yellowandback]

Which kids should we aim for Jack in the upcoming November draft?


Anyway onto Ramps question - I think you also have to look at Craig Cameron as he is our football manager with the job of overseeing the footy dept from the coaches to the recruiters and define a long-term course as far as list management. I mean I hope in this review they are handing down soon there's an answer as to why despite changing the head of our football dept. we as a club still made the same old dumb short cut to trade away picks for recycled players who couldn't get in their original club's 22 and despite us being 1-6 can't get in our 22 either  and why we again drafted so few kids in the National draft even though it's the only way to access the best and most talented kids in the country and bring them to the club. 5 kids in the past two National drafts means we effectively missed a draft when other rebuilding clubs are taking 5-6 kids in each draft.

You've also got to ask what are our current resources as far as scouts on the ground providing reports on TAC Cup, WAFL and SANFL games etc and how many do they need to be to be up with the well resourced clubs. It's been mentioned in the past Hawthorn would have 4 spotters at a TAC Cup game providing individual reports compared to our one.

As for Francis Jackson - his record so far is in terms of spotting youth (non-AFL, VFL and trades):
2006 - Riewoldt, Edwards, Connors, Collins, Peterson, Clingan (r)
2007 - Cotchin, Rance, Putt, Gourdis (psd)
2008 - Vickery, Post, Browne (r), Gilligan (r)

I'm presuming the others were made by the footy manager at the time (Miller or Cameron) or Wallace:
2006 - Polak, Kingsley (psd), King (r)
2007 - McMahon, Morton, Collard (r), Silvester (r), Cartledge (r)
2008 - Thomson, Hislop, Cousins (psd), Nahas (r)

I didn't include 2005 as FJ was only working part-time at the time helping out Miller.

This post sums up this thread (the comments about Jack included).
MT - print it and put it under Craig Cameron's door.

[Jackstar is back]

Which kids should we aim for Jack in the upcoming November draft?


.

Well smarty , I dont know as I dont do the tapes for the RFC anymore.

Will tell you this.
I vetted all TAC tapes from 2004-2006 and one thing is for certain.
Would never ever have gone for JON or Patterson, Patterson was hopeless for Northern Knights.
I might also say this, its not as easy as going to a game and watching a player.
Before you go and watch someone, you watch the tapes and pick a player who has effective kicks and disposals, irelevant of the quantity.
Then if a player has in successive weeks a high percentage of effective disposals, he is tagged and a "' scout "" will  go and watch him.
Once these players were in our system, Greg Miller and then Wallace would go and watch.
If you want the format that the players are graded on, I will send it to you.

For what its worth, I think that Plough disregarded the format and went on gut feeling on alot of selections

[jezza]

Melbourne and Freo are now ahead of us because they (finally) cleared out all their dead wood and replaced it with lots of kids, not recycles. Get enough kids in, and you'll get some good ones. We at Richmond select so few kids that the chances of getting good ones is small compared to other sides.

Craig Cameron's career is on the line this off season, simple as that. Huge opportunity to do the right thing instead of short-term fixes to protect jobs.

[Infamy]

Would never ever have gone for JON or Patterson, Patterson was hopeless for Northern Knights.

He was B&F for the Northern Knights in 2004 and CHF in the TAC Team of the year, even captained the TAC side.

Not saying he was the right pick, however not many players from that draft after pick 7 are any good.