Francis Jackson and the recruiters

[Smokey]

As for scouts, Hawthorn would have 4 at each game at different points of the ground writing individual reports to compare. We obviously just had the one so there was no calibration.

Sadly, Wallace gets the blame for the results of that shortfall.

[Stripes]

MT - I agree we should have held onto our draft picks but I think we are being a bit harsh on Hislop and Thomson too. Hislop is 20 so has only been in the system for a minimum of years and is still developing and Thomson is 22 and hasn't been given a chance yet. I thought his attack on the ball was excellent during the preseason games. Both of these players need to be afforded the same luxury as our other young players - time to develop as players and more importantly, into the team.

Afterall it has only been 7 rounds. Perhaps we are being a bit impatient with these new players given our current predicament.

Stripes

Hislop may have some upside as he's only 20 (I don't see it myself  ) but a 22 year old midfielder should walk into our side especially at the moment if he is any good. This is Thomson's 5th year in the system. We lack mids with good footskills yet we go out and trade our 3rd round pick away for another dodgy kick  ???. The question that needs to be asked is did/do we believe Hislop and Thomson will be part of our next premiership side? I would say no as they couldn't get a game at their former clubs and were only brought in as depth players. So why recruit them! It's a waste of draft picks and just further clogs our list with more dead wood that needs to be cleared.

MT - Thomson hasn't had any opportunities to break into the side because he is an inside midfielder who is excellent at clearances. When he was recruited we were unsure whether Cogs would be fit and Cousins wasn't even on the radar. Now though, we has Cogs in the middle along with Tuck, Foley and Lids all clearing the ball to our outside players all of who are ahead of Thomson at the moment.

You state that Thomson won't be in our premiership side,  well how do you know that when he hasn't been given the opportunity to show his talent? He wasn't recruited for his footskills but rather his work around stoppages. Tuck and Cousins will not be in the team long term so somone such as Thomson may actually surprize you when he gets into the team. Unfortunately unless our other inside midfielders drop off in form, are injuried or retire he has to keep playing for Coburg. Like Hislop, he is a high draft pick staved of opportunity and I feel we should at least give him that.

Stripes

[mightytiges]

MT - I agree we should have held onto our draft picks but I think we are being a bit harsh on Hislop and Thomson too. Hislop is 20 so has only been in the system for a minimum of years and is still developing and Thomson is 22 and hasn't been given a chance yet. I thought his attack on the ball was excellent during the preseason games. Both of these players need to be afforded the same luxury as our other young players - time to develop as players and more importantly, into the team.

Afterall it has only been 7 rounds. Perhaps we are being a bit impatient with these new players given our current predicament.

Stripes

Hislop may have some upside as he's only 20 (I don't see it myself  ) but a 22 year old midfielder should walk into our side especially at the moment if he is any good. This is Thomson's 5th year in the system. We lack mids with good footskills yet we go out and trade our 3rd round pick away for another dodgy kick  ???. The question that needs to be asked is did/do we believe Hislop and Thomson will be part of our next premiership side? I would say no as they couldn't get a game at their former clubs and were only brought in as depth players. So why recruit them! It's a waste of draft picks and just further clogs our list with more dead wood that needs to be cleared.

MT - Thomson hasn't had any opportunities to break into the side because he is an inside midfielder who is excellent at clearances. When he was recruited we were unsure whether Cogs would be fit and Cousins wasn't even on the radar. Now though, we has Cogs in the middle along with Tuck, Foley and Lids all clearing the ball to our outside players all of who are ahead of Thomson at the moment.

You state that Thomson won't be in our premiership side,  well how do you know that when he hasn't been given the opportunity to show his talent? He wasn't recruited for his footskills but rather his work around stoppages. Tuck and Cousins will not be in the team long term so somone such as Thomson may actually surprize you when he gets into the team. Unfortunately unless our other inside midfielders drop off in form, are injuried or retire he has to keep playing for Coburg. Like Hislop, he is a high draft pick staved of opportunity and I feel we should at least give him that.

Stripes

To be fair to Thommo he isn't playing at the moment because he's been carrying an injury since preseason so I'm not really basing my criticism of the recruiting decision on what he has or hasn't shown so far for us. Moreso based on his ordinary footskills when he was at Port. So much so he handballed twice as much as he kicked to compensate. At 22 his kicking is unlikely to improve. In modern footy you can't have players who are dodgy kicks. Thommo was a fringe player in the SANFL so I don't know why we chased after such a player and then sacrificed a decent 3rd round pick for him. Well I do know why as we wanted a protector in the guts for Axel but you shouldn't ignore a major deficiency such as kicking to snare hardness. Think Jake King  . For some reason the Club thinks good footskills and hardness are mutually exclusive when they aren't. I also cringe when a player says he's moved to Richmond for greater opportunity because he couldn't break into his old side. Hello Shane Morrison  . It makes us sound like we're St Kilda of the 1980s  .

The Club should stick to drafting and developing its own and in numbers each year especially in a rebuilding phase. After 23 drafts you would've thought the Club would've learnt by now it's the only way to rebuild properly. Just because our recruiters have got it wrong in the past with some their early pick choices doesn't make the philosophy wrong. It means the recruiting dept was poorly resourced and the recruiters at the time were duds as spotters anyway. If those in charge of our club keep employing the wrong people in our footy dept who make these poor recruiting decisions and don't set a firm direction and philisophy for the Club as they should then they should be replaced as well.

[Jackstar is back]

Which kids should we aim for Jack in the upcoming November draft?


.

Well smarty , I dont know as I dont do the tapes for the RFC anymore.

Will tell you this.
I vetted all TAC tapes from 2004-2006 and one thing is for certain.
Would never ever have gone for JON or Patterson, Patterson was hopeless for Northern Knights.
I might also say this, its not as easy as going to a game and watching a player.
Before you go and watch someone, you watch the tapes and pick a player who has effective kicks and disposals, irelevant of the quantity.
Then if a player has in successive weeks a high percentage of effective disposals, he is tagged and a "' scout "" will  go and watch him.
Once these players were in our system, Greg Miller and then Wallace would go and watch.
If you want the format that the players are graded on, I will send it to you.

For what its worth, I think that Plough disregarded the format and went on gut feeling on alot of selections

Hmmm very interesting. Thanks for that. Always felt we relied on watching tapes too much and got our main impressions from them because of lack of resources (lack of scouts on the ground). The wrong way around IMO as tapes can make someone look better than they are and nothing beats initially judging a kid playing live at the ground but each to their own. It's all very well to have effective disposals stats wise but I like to see how their footy brain works knowing the options available around them with the ball and without (running to the right spots etc) and see if they can excute real effective disposals that are team orientated and damaging. Cousins for instance isn't the best purest kick in the game but he always does the right thing by foot. So see who is a natural footballer and then use data analysis to sort the wheat from the chaff. JON was picked because of the apparent X-factor and athleticism. Too bad that doesn't mean you can kick and play footy  . As for scouts, Hawthorn would have 4 at each game at different points of the ground writing individual reports to compare. We obviously just had the one so there was no calibration.

Correct

[camboon]

You don't have to be too good to pick the the top 20 draft picks - you buy the paper. All you experts who slag on recruiters ( even the ones who were sacked ), how about watching some >18 games and tell us who is on song and why they are worthy of our heart and soul. If you get it wrong please include your families address so we can burn down the house and attack your loved ones for the pain you have caused us - only serious!

[mightytiges]

You don't have to be too good to pick the the top 20 draft picks - you buy the paper. All you experts who slag on recruiters ( even the ones who were sacked ), how about watching some >18 games and tell us who is on song and why they are worthy of our heart and soul. If you get it wrong please include your families address so we can burn down the house and attack your loved ones for the pain you have caused us - only serious!

We've actually done alright with our late picks and rookies when we've gone for kids. Over half our side on Sunday will be post pick 50 selections while only 5 are top 20s (and that includes Petts). It's the top 20 picks where you hope to pick up future guns that we've had a below par return from. It hasn't helped that we traded away early picks pre-Wallace and missed a generation who would now be our 24-28 y.o. core rather than relying on 30+ years olds to support the younger Tigers. There's Newy, Cogs and Petts and that's about it in that range . That's why picking 2-3 kids up each National draft isn't enough. I agree it isn't an exact science.  So if you get one or two wrong from so few selections or you waste picks on recycled fringe players it comes back to bite you long-term. We'll have to select 5-6 kids in this upcoming National draft and then pick a few more kids as rookies to make up for selecting only 13 kids in the past four National drafts (11 of which are still on our list).

Here's what I had pre-draft (U18 champs).
2008: http://oneeyed-richmond.com/forum//index.php?topic=8076.msg106592#msg106592
2007: http://oneeyed-richmond.com/forum//index.php?topic=5094.msg65737#msg65737

[camboon]

Good Post MT, agree totally.

[mightytiges]

It's not FJ's fault either if the player he drooled over in the U18s and wanted to draft to Punt Rd (Scott Selwood now at the Eagles) is missed because those in positions above him had already traded away the pick we could have got Selwood with  .