Picks 36 and 52

[Tiger Spirit]

Which way is GM taking a risk though?

I think it's a risk not using at least two of the picks after twenty.

Understand your concern H Tiger, but if GM's done his homework, he will already know which players are worth taking a financial risk with and which aren’t, when it comes draft time.

No use picking players just for the sake of saying we’ve got young players on our list when you have doubts about them.  Or if we are going to get ourselves into a financial pickle by using those picks.

Last year we had the following late picks:
 
Daniel Jackson (pick 53)
Brent Hartigan (70)
Andrew Raines (76)
Kyle Archibald (81)

So why wouldn’t we use our late picks this year, without there being a good reason for it?  Just wouldn’t make sense.

Last year, because we had few high picks, we probably had to do a lot more ground work to get some good players.

I know I’ve mentioned this before, but Richmond convinced Daniel Jackson to nominate for last year’s draft, even though he wasn’t expected to play any AFL footy this year.  Because he agreed, we got him at pick 53, instead of a being a potential first round selection this year.

Similar story for Andrew Raines.  He didn’t have a stand out year last season so went unnoticed by most other Clubs at the draft.  Seeing the rate of his progress this year, he would probably be no less than a second round draft choice this year.

Nothing has been proven yet with any of these players, but what may have seemed like odd selections then may well turn out to be inspired choices.

[WilliamPowell]

Many people raise the issue of drafting a kid means we are locked in to a two year deal. I don't think this is a factor. Most of these kids will need at least 2 years to prove themselves anyway, plus the cost of a draftee on the list is not that much,

I believe the cost of a draftee in his first year totals about $120-$150k Jezza.

This includes the players contract (base + match payments), transfer and relocation fees.

[H Tiger]

Sorry Jezza but you do not make a delist/trade decision on a kid after two years.

These kids should be nurtured at Coburg for the best part of their first two years and brought into the senior team slowly.

Obviously kpp's take longer, Shultz for instance is just starting to come on enough to get a game.

Of our (hopefully six or seven) picks maybe two should see any type of senior footy next year, and those two would be the guys with big bodies for their position.

We want to get some future champions in this draft. RFC will get them if they are confident footballers. How will this happen? Give them times to hit their straps, show that they can rip a game of football apart in the VFL first.

How confident will they be if they are part of a struggling tigers and getting destroyed by bigger older and at the moment better opponents?

Give them a taste, but let them grow slowly, working together in the VFL.

[Harry]

It's basically a choice between the current mid-aged underachievers on our list who's contract expires (ie Hilton, Weller, Fleming? etc) and a kid like a Hartigan, Newman, Zantuck, Jackson etc. that can be picked up with a late pick.  Financial constraints aside (we should not be sacrificing players!!) I know who I would prefer. 

As recruiting is a lottery, the more picks you have the greater chance of finding a match winner.  The Flemings, Hiltons, Wellers, Chaffeys etc of this world are NOT gonna bring us a flag.  Pick 36 and 52 MIGHT.  We MUST use them !!

[jezza]

I believe the cost of a draftee in his first year totals about $120-$150k Jezza.

This includes the players contract (base + match payments), transfer and relocation fees.

Thanks for that info. Do you know what the second year costs are? I see now why recycles were used a lot in the past.

[jezza]

Sorry Jezza but you do not make a delist/trade decision on a kid after two years.

These kids should be nurtured at Coburg for the best part of their first two years and brought into the senior team slowly.

Obviously kpp's take longer, Shultz for instance is just starting to come on enough to get a game.

Of our (hopefully six or seven) picks maybe two should see any type of senior footy next year, and those two would be the guys with big bodies for their position.

We want to get some future champions in this draft. RFC will get them if they are confident footballers. How will this happen? Give them times to hit their straps, show that they can rip a game of football apart in the VFL first.

How confident will they be if they are part of a struggling tigers and getting destroyed by bigger older and at the moment better opponents?

Give them a taste, but let them grow slowly, working together in the VFL.

Unfortunately some draftees are culled after their initial 2 year deal is up, some just aren't up to it and it's clear to see. Someone like a Marty McGrath wasn't prepared to do what it took to be an afl footballer so he was let go, it obviously wasn't something that was going to change. Plus there is always pressure on clubs to move some players on, they have to draft a minimum of 3 kids per year so 3 players a year have to be moved on.

[Tiger Spirit]

Also, we have had some success late in the draft with Jackson, Raines and Hartigan so we should be able to get something out of picks 36 and 52. (Jackson was 53, if we can get another like him there we will be laughing).

As mentioned in my previous post jezza, the reason we had such “success” with those picks was because GM did do his homework.  We didn’t have many high draft picks so had to make the selections we did have work, or just fall further and further behind the other Clubs.

I’d like to see us use all our picks this year too, but if it turns out that we don’t then I know there will be valid reasons if they are not used.

[Tiger Spirit]

It's basically a choice between the current mid-aged underachievers on our list who's contract expires (ie Hilton, Weller, Fleming? etc) and a kid like a Hartigan, Newman, Zantuck, Jackson etc. that can be picked up with a late pick. Financial constraints aside (we should not be sacrificing players!!) I know who I would prefer.

As recruiting is a lottery, the more picks you have the greater chance of finding a match winner. The Flemings, Hiltons, Wellers, Chaffeys etc of this world are NOT gonna bring us a flag. Pick 36 and 52 MIGHT. We MUST use them !!

I know that you can’t control who other Clubs pick, so from that point of view the draft is a lottery, but it becomes more of a lottery when Clubs play pin the tail on the donkey, as we seem to have done over the years and just made short-term, quick fix decisions.  Looking back at it now, the extent of our knowledge seemed to go as far as a player’s football ability and seemed to ignore anything else that determines what makes a good footballer.  If we found a good player it was probably more luck than anything else.  That sort of recruiting and the fact we didn’t have a long-term plan ensured there was no real system to our drafting that was going to benefit the Club in the long term.

If we now stick to re-building and developing our list then we have every right to expect that we will start to see some real improvement in the team over the next couple of years or so.

But we can't expect that we will revamp the list over night, because rules, contracts, finances and whatever else is involved means these things take longer than any of us would like.

[mightytiges]

We paid in the past for "specializing" with our choices based on need at the time. We chose Fiora and gave up first and second picks for Hilton and Bidders because we lacked "skillful" running midfielders lol and we chose Pettifer along with Hudson and Houlihan due our obsession with small to mid-sized crumbing forwards. At least this time around we're so deficient in so many areas that we'll be grateful for the best available kids whether they're midfielders or talls. 

Do you know what the second year costs are? I see now why recycles were used a lot in the past.

I'd reckon the second year costs would roughly be the same as the first indexed in relation to inflation.

[Jackstar]

Hello Mightiges

[jezza]

I'd reckon the second year costs would roughly be the same as the first indexed in relation to inflation.

But out of the $120-150k from the first year, how much is made up by the transfer and relocation fees?

[mightytiges]

Hello Mightiges

Hey Jack. Are you back from your holiday?

[mightytiges]

But out of the $120-150k from the first year, how much is made up by the transfer and relocation fees?

I don't know jezza. I'd guess we'd need to look up the AFL enterprise bargaining agreement  .

[jezza]

Looks like what I posted previously was not correct, a player can be moved from the vets list back to the primary list as long as they are still classified as a veteran, so pick 36 is not a definite.

From the collective bargaining agreement on the AFLPA site:

13.1 (a) An AFL Club may nominate for each AFL Season up to two eligible Players
to be transferred from its Primary List to the Veterans List and/or any
number of eligible Players to be classified as a veteran on its Primary List,
provided the transfer or classification occurs no later than two weeks after
the Pre-Season Draft prior to the relevant AFL Season.
(b) An AFL Club which classifies a Player on its Primary List as a veteran, may,
at a later stage, but no later than two weeks after the Pre-Season Draft prior
to the relevant AFL Season, transfer the Player to the AFL Club’s Veterans
List.
(c) A Player who is transferred to the AFL Club’s Veterans List can only be
transferred back to the Primary List of the AFL Club between the end of an
AFL Season and two weeks after the Pre-Season Draft prior to the next AFL
Season and provided that Player remains classified as a veteran on the
Primary List.
(d) A Player that is classified as a veteran on the Primary List must remain
classified as a Veteran until that Player leaves the Club or is transferred to
the Veterans List.

[jezza]

schedule B sections 2 and 3 have the details for first and second year player payments. Basically next year, a first year player who is a first round pick has base payments of $45,600, match payments of $2,200 and bonuses for the number of senior appearances up to $6,300. Relocation fees are around $6000 and a living away from home allowance of around $6000.

Second year first round picks then get a base of up to $60,000 and $3,250 depending on how many senior games they played in their first year.