Start rebuilding the list

[1980]

We wont be making a GF with this list. You can rave all you want about Deledio, Reiwoldt, McGuane but they arent good enough to lead this team into a GF anytime in the next 10 years.

We'll have one genuine superstar (Cotchin) at the club in a year's time and lots of players that we overrate just like we overrated Campbell, Knights and Daffy and never made a GF with them either.

Might as well start rebuilding again. Start by trading Deledio for a 1st round pick

[crannyvegas]

ahem.. but perhaps cotchin will end up the same as delidio & tambling. Fact is that the players are not being developed to reach their potential. They are marginally better than when they got here and have since stalled. If you compare body size with us and St Kilda or Geelong we are such a long way away. Unless something drastic changes at the club we will be making up the numbers for 20 years not ten.

[Judge Roughneck]

15 year plan?

Geez Geez. 

[Ox]

get rid of fumbling foley too....

he's a shitman

[Stripes]

This would be the worst time to start a rebuild given that the next 5 drafts are so rediculously compromised. Tambling is a great case for what a change of motivation, mind set, confidence and development can do for a player. Perhaps a new coach, with more development coaches to support him, will be able to turn players careers around and make us a team which plays for each other rather than for themselves.

Players such as Deledio, Cotchin, Tambling, Vickery, Rance, Thomson and Hislop, who were early draft picks, can have their potential realised with a new environment and game plan.

Before we write off all of our list in one dramatic hit, we should realize that we still have time on our side and that our best players still have a lot of development left in them.

We do need to top up but I don't think we need to strip the list back completely, particularly at the moment.

Stripes

[camboon]

Top up with kids but not other clubs players- they always carry baggage!

[1980]

This would be the worst time to start a rebuild given that the next 5 drafts are so rediculously compromised. Tambling is a great case for what a change of motivation, mind set, confidence and development can do for a player. Perhaps a new coach, with more development coaches to support him, will be able to turn players careers around and make us a team which plays for each other rather than for themselves.

Players such as Deledio, Cotchin, Tambling, Vickery, Rance, Thomson and Hislop, who were early draft picks, can have their potential realised with a new environment and game plan.

Before we write off all of our list in one dramatic hit, we should realize that we still have time on our side and that our best players still have a lot of development left in them.

We do need to top up but I don't think we need to strip the list back completely, particularly at the moment.

Stripes

Fair enough post Stripes, but the only way to get good picks is to trade players.  I just reckon we need to be brave.

I just cant see who are the 4 or 5 players we are going to build our team around for the next 5+ years. Deledio, Reiwoldt etc these blokes just go missing. IMO only Jackson shows the right mentality to play footy and be a leader at this footy club longer term. The rest are have been well and truly infected by the likes of Brown and Bowden. They just dont work hard enough and when a couple of goals get kicked on them, are quick to throw in the towel. We have no leaders at this club, and I cant see who the next set of leaders are going to be either.

 

[1980]

15 year plan?

Geez Geez. 

Put it in the right perspective. We'll be lucky to see another premiership in our lifetime.

[mightytiges]

This would be the worst time to start a rebuild given that the next 5 drafts are so rediculously compromised. Tambling is a great case for what a change of motivation, mind set, confidence and development can do for a player. Perhaps a new coach, with more development coaches to support him, will be able to turn players careers around and make us a team which plays for each other rather than for themselves.

Players such as Deledio, Cotchin, Tambling, Vickery, Rance, Thomson and Hislop, who were early draft picks, can have their potential realised with a new environment and game plan.

Before we write off all of our list in one dramatic hit, we should realize that we still have time on our side and that our best players still have a lot of development left in them.

We do need to top up but I don't think we need to strip the list back completely, particularly at the moment.

Stripes

Fair enough post Stripes, but the only way to get good picks is to trade players.  I just reckon we need to be brave.

I just cant see who are the 4 or 5 players we are going to build our team around for the next 5+ years. Deledio, Reiwoldt etc these blokes just go missing. IMO only Jackson shows the right mentality to play footy and be a leader at this footy club longer term. The rest are have been well and truly infected by the likes of Brown and Bowden. They just dont work hard enough and when a couple of goals get kicked on them, are quick to throw in the towel. We have no leaders at this club, and I cant see who the next set of leaders are going to be either.

Lids is still only 21 and Jack is 20. Compare that to Jackson who is 23. The problem with our list isn't with our young new core. It's the lack of quality 23-28 year olds to carry the main load while they develop. Other clubs have 12-15 quality players and a handful of those guns in their prime whereas we have about 5 decent players at best (Jacko, Foley, Moore, Newy and Tuck) and none of them are A-graders/matchwinners. At least we have some youth to rebuild around now which we didn't have when Spud finished (we should have more if we didn't trade picks away under Plough for duds but that's partly why he failed and got the stuff). We're halfway through the rebuild. Part of the job is drafting as many talented kids we can get hold of and the other is hanging tough until the current cubs hit their peak age in 3-4 years time. The new facilities and resources should help with development too. At least our new draftees won't have to wait until their 3rd year before they get a development coach. We've got to hope the club get the coaching appointment right this time around. Someone who demands excellence, respect and a team first mentality.

[Smokey]

An excellent and thought provoking article by Trevor Grant in today's Herald-Sun:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25715791-19742,00.html?from=public_rss

It talks about the culture change at St Kilda over the past 5 years and I couldn't help but compare Richmond at the moment.  We have reached a real crisis point in our club's history as success continues to elude us and we are in the midst of yet another upheaval - you get the impression that a large body of supporters are almost fed up to the point of leaving and not coming back - apathy has taken over from anger and that's not a good thing at all.  I know that the playing quality of the list is the subject of much debate in here but you can draw significant parallels with the St Kilda list of 5 years ago, and it is already publicly acknowledged that in recent (last 5 at least) years the club has placed a much bigger emphasis on the personality traits, demeanor, family background etc of the players when considering draftees.  I wonder what history will show - will this year become our Kokoda or our Waterloo?

[Chuck17]

15 year plan?

Geez Geez. 

Put it in the right perspective. We'll be lucky to see another premiership in our lifetime.

I hope you haven't contracted anything terminal 1980

[Judge Roughneck]

An excellent and thought provoking article by Trevor Grant in today's Herald-Sun:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25715791-19742,00.html?from=public_rss

It talks about the culture change at St Kilda over the past 5 years and I couldn't help but compare Richmond at the moment.  We have reached a real crisis point in our club's history as success continues to elude us and we are in the midst of yet another upheaval - you get the impression that a large body of supporters are almost fed up to the point of leaving and not coming back - apathy has taken over from anger and that's not a good thing at all.  I know that the playing quality of the list is the subject of much debate in here but you can draw significant parallels with the St Kilda list of 5 years ago, and it is already publicly acknowledged that in recent (last 5 at least) years the club has placed a much bigger emphasis on the personality traits, demeanor, family background etc of the players when considering draftees.  I wonder what history will show - will this year become our Kokoda or our Waterloo?

How old are Deledio, Cotchin, Rance, Reiwoldt, Foley etc. now

How old were Reiwoldt, Kosi, Goddard, Ball etc. when Grant Thomas got the ass.

Would be a comparison worth doing

[Smokey]

Would be a comparison worth doing

Here it is Bentleigh:

I took the start of 2004 and the start of 2009 as the baselines and each player is/was the age shown at some time of that year.  I picked 8 from each list that I believe to be the core of each side and compared them side by side as best I could (remembering this part is all my opinion).  I counted seasons where they played at least 1 senior game.  Thomas only left 2-ish years ago so it wasn't a close enough fit to the 5 years described in the article to take that as a relevant start point.

2004         Age   Games   Seasons     2009      Age   Games   Seasons
Ball            20       16          1          Deledio    22       84         4
Riewoldt     22       50          3          Riewoldt   21       26         2
Hayes        24       93          5          Tambling  23       75         4
Montagna   21       13          2          Foley       24       70        4
Del Santo   20       26          2          Cotchin    19       15         1
Koschitzke  22       41          3          McGuane  22       32         3
Goddard     19       18          1          Rance      20        0          0
Milne         24       52          3          Morton     22        29        4

Totals        172    309         20                       173      331       23

Pretty much even - I suppose that just leaves 2 big questions:

Is the current situation substantial enough to drive culture change in our club, and is this core group good enough to lead the change?

[Smokey]

Another interesting article on the AFL site today is worth including here I think:

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/79779/default.aspx

It's about Brett Kirk discussing Barry Hall but there are some very salient points from an outsider's perspective.  Here are a couple I think are worth noting:

“Especially for me, he’s a friend and I care about him but I’m the captain of the footy club. I have a responsibility to the Swans football club, the playing list and everyone who supports the club.”

and...

“I’ve got a duty as a captain and a responsibility to the younger players coming through to stand for something, to have a culture coming through that everyone looks at from the outside and thinks this club has a really great reputation,” he said.

“We’re all only passing through here – we’re all guardians of this footy club and no one’s here forever. We want to leave the club a better place.”

“It’s something that we’ll need to sit down and talk to the young guys about and keep talking about what we stand for as a footy club.”

If I was coach I would have the quote “We’re all only passing through here – we’re all guardians of this footy club and no one’s here forever. We want to leave the club a better place.” written in permanent big bold lettering in the most prominent place around the rooms that I could find.

[mightytiges]

Would be a comparison worth doing

Here it is Bentleigh:

I took the start of 2004 and the start of 2009 as the baselines and each player is/was the age shown at some time of that year.  I picked 8 from each list that I believe to be the core of each side and compared them side by side as best I could (remembering this part is all my opinion).  I counted seasons where they played at least 1 senior game.  Thomas only left 2-ish years ago so it wasn't a close enough fit to the 5 years described in the article to take that as a relevant start point.

2004         Age   Games   Seasons     2009      Age   Games   Seasons
Ball            20       16          1          Deledio    22       84         4
Riewoldt     22       50          3          Riewoldt   21       26         2
Hayes        24       93          5          Tambling  23       75         4
Montagna   21       13          2          Foley       24       70        4
Del Santo   20       26          2          Cotchin    19       15         1
Koschitzke  22       41          3          McGuane  22       32         3
Goddard     19       18          1          Rance      20        0          0
Milne         24       52          3          Morton     22        29        4

Totals        172    309         20                       173      331       23

Pretty much even - I suppose that just leaves 2 big questions:

Is the current situation substantial enough to drive culture change in our club, and is this core group good enough to lead the change?

The Saints were a top 4 side in 2004. They had matchwinning senior players still in their prime to provide the support and team structure for their up and coming youngsters. Gehrig and Hamill up forward to take the weight off a young Riewoldt, Hudghton and Penny down back, then Harvey, Thompson, Powell, Heath Black and Guerra through the midfield. Kosi (injured), Montagna and Goddard weren't in 2004 nowhere near cemented best 22 players yet. We don't have that senior core to provide the support for our cubs. It's going to be our current cubs who will have to provide the support and structures for the next wave of youth. At the moment we are only halfway through our rebuild at best and our list is ordinary so we need another major injection of talented youngsters via the upcoming drafts ( in the face of GC17 and West Sydney coming in).