Where is the list at?

[one-eyed]

Caro, Walls and Tony Shaw were discussing Richmond just after midday today. They have 17 gone just off the top of their heads.

Retirees: Bowden, Brown, Johnson, Simmonds, Pettifer, Polak, Coughlan

Others to offload/delist: King, Hislop, McMahon, Hughes, JON, Schulz, Pattison, Thompson, Tuck (too slow) and possibly Polo (didn't mind him but makes a lot of mistakes)

[big tone]

Caro, Walls and Tony Shaw were discussing Richmond just after midday today. They have 17 gone just off the top of their heads.

Retirees: Bowden, Brown, Johnson, Simmonds, Pettifer, Polak, Coughlan

Others to offload/delist: King, Hislop, McMahon, Hughes, JON, Schulz, Pattison, Thompson, Tuck (too slow) and possibly Polo (didn't mind him but makes a lot of mistakes)

Agree with all but King and Polo, both are not champions but both have a go. We need people who are not scared to get their hands dirty and tackle.  Both should be in our last 5 picked not our first 5.

[mightytiges]

Polo is probably the only one you would consider perservering with out of that lot. Unfortunately due to contracts and not being able to make 16 changes in one off-season some of those who should get the flick will survive into 2010  .

King is just a 2009 version of Tim Fleming or Andy Goodwin. Yeah they have a go and don't mind the biff but it doesn't deter from them being utter dud footballers who don't belong in the AFL.

[Infamy]

Funny that King's disposal efficiency was by far the best of the entire side against the Pies
Only had one ineffective

[wayne]

You can't lose 17 players in one go, Polo will survive, Tuck will if he can't be traded and King might have done enough to stay on for the rest of his contract.

[torch]

this is mine, not sure about the contracts ...

stay/delist/trade/gone

2. Will Thursfield - stay
3. Brett Deledio - stay
4. Andrew Raines - stay
5. Troy Simmonds - delist
6. Graham Polak - trade/delist
7. Nathan Brown - delist
8. Jack Riewoldt - stay
9. Trent Cotchin - stay
10. Shane Edwards - trade/delist
11. Joel Bowden - gone
12. Matthew Richardson - stay
13. Jordan McMahon - trade/delist
14. Dean Polo - stay
15. Kayne Pettifer - trade/delist
16. Luke McGuane - stay
17. Chris Newman - stay
18. Alex Rance - stay
19. Dean Putt - trade/delist
20. Mitch Morton - stay
21. Shane Tuck - trade/delist
22. Jarryd Oakley-Nicholls - trade/delist
23. Daniel Jackson - stay
24. Mark Coughlan - delist
25. Jay Schulz - trade/stay
26. Adam Pattison - trade/stay
27. Tom Hislop - trade/delist
28. Kane Johnson - gone
29. Tyrone Vickery - stay
30. Richard Tambling - stay
31. Adam Thomson - stay
32. Ben Cousins - stay
33. David Gourdis - stay
34. Cleve Hughes - trade/stay
35. Matthew White - stay
36. Jarrod Silvester - delist
37. Jayden Post - stay
38. Robin Nahas - stay
39. Daniel Connors - trade/delist
40. Kelvin Moore - stay
41. Nathan Foley - stay
42. Andrew Collins - stay
43. Andrew Browne - stay
44. Angus Graham - stay
45. Alroy Gilligan - stay
46. Jake King - stay

[big tone]

Polo is probably the only one you would consider perservering with out of that lot. Unfortunately due to contracts and not being able to make 16 changes in one off-season some of those who should get the flick will survive into 2010  .

King is just a 2009 version of Tim Fleming or Andy Goodwin. Yeah they have a go and don't mind the biff but it doesn't deter from them being utter dud footballers who don't belong in the AFL.

Plenty of average players/taggers in the AFL that have helped their teams win games. (Baker, Jones fom the saints, O'Bree, Ablett from Sydney) Not every player in your side needs to be a Rolls Royce, you need some grunt!

[mightytiges]

Funny that King's disposal efficiency was by far the best of the entire side against the Pies
Only had one ineffective

His job yesterday was to tag Didak who had 30 possies and kicked 2 goals. All Malthouse had to do was push Didak forward and Kingy was no match. While Richmond believes Kingy types belong on our list then we remain a bottom side. He should have been lucky to survive last year yet the Club gives him a 2-year contract  ??? and then he spent 10 weeks in the VFL this year until Rawlings brought him back as part of playing the whole list. At 25 if you're not a certain best 22 AFL standard footballer then it should be good-bye. Playing one or two decent games a year doesn't cut it. Kingy not the only one in that boat mind you.

Craig Cameron has some big list decisions coming up to prove his worth. If he repeats the list management stuff ups of October/November last year then he should go as well.

[the_boy_jake]

Plenty of average players/taggers in the AFL that have helped their teams win games. (Baker, Jones fom the saints, O'Bree, Ablett from Sydney) Not every player in your side needs to be a Rolls Royce, you need some grunt!

Yeah its OK in very good sides but you can't carry them when your skill levels across the board need improving. Some clubs can carry an average hard nut with little footy smarts, we cannot. He'll be saved because we have a terrible list and he has an undeservedly bad reputation for his kicking (there is plenty of competition from his teammates for the worst kick award) and no-one will give us anything for him.

[Infamy]

Funny that King's disposal efficiency was by far the best of the entire side against the Pies
Only had one ineffective

His job yesterday was to tag Didak who had 30 possies and kicked 2 goals. All Malthouse had to do was push Didak forward and Kingy was no match. While Richmond believes Kingy types belong on our list then we remain a bottom side. He should have been lucky to survive last year yet the Club gives him a 2-year contract  ??? and then he spent 10 weeks in the VFL this year until Rawlings brought him back as part of playing the whole list. At 25 if you're not a certain best 22 AFL standard footballer then it should be good-bye. Playing one or two decent games a year doesn't cut it. Kingy not the only one in that boat mind you.

Craig Cameron has some big list decisions coming up to prove his worth. If he repeats the list management stuff ups of October/November last year then he should go as well.

King had a complete ankle reconstruction over the preseason, it's not surprising that he took some time getting back into the senior side
I agree he's not part of a premiership side, however theres definitely a spot on the list for him next season, he's been the only player other than Richo & Cousins who doesn't stop trying all game

[mightytiges]

Polo is probably the only one you would consider perservering with out of that lot. Unfortunately due to contracts and not being able to make 16 changes in one off-season some of those who should get the flick will survive into 2010  .

King is just a 2009 version of Tim Fleming or Andy Goodwin. Yeah they have a go and don't mind the biff but it doesn't deter from them being utter dud footballers who don't belong in the AFL.

Plenty of average players/taggers in the AFL that have helped their teams win games. (Baker, Jones fom the saints, O'Bree, Ablett from Sydney) Not every player in your side needs to be a Rolls Royce, you need some grunt!

Those players aren't too small for AFL either. Kingy has too many deficiencies to be in the AFL.

Ablett 184cm   91kg
O'Bree 180cm  83kg 
Baker   179cm  87kg
King     174cm  74kg

[mightytiges]

Funny that King's disposal efficiency was by far the best of the entire side against the Pies
Only had one ineffective

His job yesterday was to tag Didak who had 30 possies and kicked 2 goals. All Malthouse had to do was push Didak forward and Kingy was no match. While Richmond believes Kingy types belong on our list then we remain a bottom side. He should have been lucky to survive last year yet the Club gives him a 2-year contract  ??? and then he spent 10 weeks in the VFL this year until Rawlings brought him back as part of playing the whole list. At 25 if you're not a certain best 22 AFL standard footballer then it should be good-bye. Playing one or two decent games a year doesn't cut it. Kingy not the only one in that boat mind you.

Craig Cameron has some big list decisions coming up to prove his worth. If he repeats the list management stuff ups of October/November last year then he should go as well.

King had a complete ankle reconstruction over the preseason, it's not surprising that he took some time getting back into the senior side
I agree he's not part of a premiership side, however theres definitely a spot on the list for him next season, he's been the only player other than Richo & Cousins who doesn't stop trying all game

But Richo and Cousins back up trying their all with A-grade AFL talent over their entire career. That's why they have been champions. Kingy is VFL standard and was before his ankle injury. We don't need VFL triers taking up spots on our list. They are simple list cloggers. Now you're right Infamy that Kingy will most likely get a spot on our list in 2010 but only because he's contracted  . However if another club was interested in him I would trade him.

[WilliamPowell]

A coach with balls who will rule with an iron fist.
The clubs problem are not inherent only to a underperforming playing list.

Interesting comments Tucker

While I sat there yesterday the one thing I couldn't ge tout of my head was based on yesterday's "effort" it wouldn't matter who the coach was it would not have made one iota of difference.

Yet again outside Cus there was no leadership, no pride, just a vast majority running around playing for themselves

The biggest problem I see at Richmond is the fact our players don't play for each other, when you are winnging it can be hidden but when things turn to crap you cannot hide it. Whether people want to admit it or not it is in part an individual mindset and at our "team" doesn't have it because individuals are far to selfish to want to change

And when it is all said and done it doesn't matter who the coach is until that basic fundamental of playing team sport changes changes then we will continue to be bottom four side

[Jackstar is back]

A coach with balls who will rule with an iron fist.
The clubs problem are not inherent only to a underperforming playing list.

Interesting comments Tucker

While I sat there yesterday the one thing I couldn't ge tout of my head was based on yesterday's "effort" it wouldn't matter who the coach was it would not have made one iota of difference.

Yet again outside Cus there was no leadership, no pride, just a vast majority running around playing for themselves

The biggest problem I see at Richmond is the fact our players don't play for each other, when you are winnging it can be hidden but when things turn to crap you cannot hide it. Whether people want to admit it or not it is in part an individual mindset and at our "team" doesn't have it because individuals are far to selfish to want to change

And when it is all said and done it doesn't matter who the coach is until that basic fundamental of playing team sport changes changes then we will continue to be bottom four side

Correct

[WilliamPowell]

Which brings me to our list.... my orginal thoughts were 7-9 changes, now I'd be looking at 10-12

I would hope that yesterday also turns out to be a farewell games for a couple of others