Author Topic: Where did Terry go wrong?!  (Read 3478 times)

Offline mightytiges

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 58590
  • Eat 'Em Alive!
    • oneeyed-richmond.com
Re: Where did Terry go wrong?!
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2009, 07:34:15 PM »
Well this is going to be a popular thread lol :help. Waits for Stripes to be asked for an 'all of the above' option in his poll  :whistle.

Main fault is Terry and Miller didn't cut into the list hard enough at the beginning. The comment about wanting to give the older guys some success initially as a loyalty reward when he started was sign of things to come and his biggest mistake. Losing Browny and Cogs was just horrible luck  :'( and screwed up that idea. By finishing 9th and 10th in no-man's land we missed out on the juicier picks on offer under the old PP rule that Hawthorn, Carlton and Collingwood received.

His first (2004) draft we had the right idea with 6 picks in the top 36 (although we didn't make the most of our early choices) but the 2005 draft was a disaster. Just 3 kids (all flops) when we were meant to be rebuilding followed by just 3 in 2007 and 2 in 2008 was a disgrace. Just 8 kids in 3 National drafts because we traded away good picks for VFL standard players instead of offloading players for picks even when offered a decent deal. Not all Plough's fault either I might add. The Club as a whole from the Board down are responsible for the direction the Club took and the slowness in turnover of our list. What was done in 5 years should have been done in 3. It is possible to cull 3/4ers of your list in 3 years. It's what we have to do now  :-\.

The financial pressures on the Club wouldn't have helped generate a pure long-term focus from the Board down. After losing $3m in 2003-4 there would've been pressure to put out a competitive side from the start in 2005 to help with balancing the books. Although people now bag Plough for being nothing but a salesman it was one of the reasons why he was hired in the first place. The Club was a basketcase both on and off-field. It wasn't someone to sell it to the masses to attract support and generate dollars.

Plough also misread the direction footy was heading and recruited too many small and light players with poor defensive sides to their game. The lack of draft choices restricted our ability to get the balance right with our list between smalls, midsized-players and talls. We only started to correct our lack of decent talls in Terry's last draft. The fact is the more things change the more the fundamentals of footy don't. Bigger bodies with natural smarts and good skills win out in the end in winning the footy. The game has speed up dramatically and you can't be slow by foot but it's more quickness of movement of the footy (which requires smarts and skills) that you need to break down modern defensive structures rather than just pure leg speed.

At training the focus seemed to be more on implementing the run-and-carry gameplan at all costs independent of and irrespective of the strengths and especially weaknesses of the playing group. A lack of hands on teaching and instruction both individually and collectively (agree with that big time Stripes). Errors at training were never pulled up - those same errors the players would display during actual games. Specialised development of our younger players was non-existent in the first 2-3 years as we know due to lack of resources as well as lack of hands on teaching. The weirdest mistake was over last preseason he changed things up despite our strong finish to 2008. Why change things that were clearly working!  ???

This is not just about Terry but all Richmond coaches of recent years. I think they come to the club mistakenly assuming Richmond players all know the basics of footy (especially basic strategy). The new coach whoever he turns out to be needs to strip everything back to the basics and start again if he really wants to instill change. Clean out the older players excluding say Cuz, Richo and Newy so the coach is the voice to the young guys rather than passing down a poor culture from older players. Basically get on the park and hands on instruct players where they need to be, run to and kick to play by play. If I was the new coach I would write-off 2010 (without saying anything) and use the first 16 months as one long training, teaching and developmental period. A 4 months preseason isn't long enough to fix what is wrong with this current group as it goes too quickly. Prepare for 2011-2 and beyond as the new coach will have a 3-year contract. It'll also give the new coach two draft periods to cut deep and clean out at least half the list.
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Jackstar is back

  • Guest
Re: Where did Terry go wrong?!
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2009, 07:43:59 PM »
MT, I basically agree
Wallace was instigating a game plan beyond there capabilty.
Similar to Walls,
Thought Walls was a great coach, although the players couldnt carry out what was asked.
I remember Wallsy telling me about "'rotating hot spots "" WTF. :banghead
the players thought the same, LOL

Offline mightytiges

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 58590
  • Eat 'Em Alive!
    • oneeyed-richmond.com
Re: Where did Terry go wrong?!
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2009, 07:52:24 PM »
MT, I basically agree
Wallace was instigating a game plan beyond there capabilty.
Similar to Walls,
Thought Walls was a great coach, although the players couldnt carry out what was asked.
I remember Wallsy telling me about "'rotating hot spots "" WTF. :banghead
the players thought the same, LOL
Walls also said we were too predictable under Northey and wanted a higher possession gameplan. That worked well didn't it  :P. IIRC Beck became our recruiter during Walls' reign. A double blow.
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Offline camboon

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 2436
Re: Where did Terry go wrong?!
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2009, 07:59:19 PM »
You cant go this week can you big boy.

 Anyway my 2 bobs worth.

1)Recuitment for self interest - short term to keep a job, no we dont need two more top up players to make the finals - we finished 9th because we are stupid and the other sides lay down for better picks. (Hurley's not bad, who was pick 7 Rich ???) but the Big V should be a star! Make the hard decision for the best long term interest of the club.

2) Team before self - hardness sheparding, smothering, gut running, tackleing should be recognised as number one.

3) Get the right cattle, teach them skills and the right attitude - I think we are getting better here but the horse might have bolted.  

Online Francois Jackson

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 14021
Re: Where did Terry go wrong?!
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2009, 08:09:52 PM »
You cant go this week can you big boy.

 Anyway my 2 bobs worth.

1)Recuitment for self interest - short term to keep a job, no we dont need two more top up players to make the finals - we finished 9th because we are stupid and the other sides lay down for better picks. (Hurley's not bad, who was pick 7 Rich ???) but the Big V should be a star! Make the hard decision for the best long term interest of the club.

2) Team before self - hardness sheparding, smothering, gut running, tackleing should be recognised as number one.

3) Get the right cattle, teach them skills and the right attitude - I think we are getting better here but the horse might have bolted.  

spot on mate, spot on
Currently a member of the Roupies, and employed by the great man Roup.

Offline WilliamPowell

  • Administrator
  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 40205
  • Better to ignore a fool than encourage one
    • One Eyed Richmond
Re: Where did Terry go wrong?!
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2009, 08:44:19 PM »
* Demands hardness and fire from the playing group
* Development of individuals skills, confidence and footy-smarts
* Team first mentality

The above three for mine because they are so important and link to together, one flows into the other, ito the other so to speak

Will also - add I think he played a favourites too much as well which makes instilling point 3 "team first mentality" nigh on impossible
"Oh yes I am a dreamer, I still see us flying high!"

from the song "Don't Walk Away" by Pat Benatar 1988 (Wide Awake In Dreamland)

Offline Stripes

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 4261
Re: Where did Terry go wrong?!
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2009, 09:08:01 PM »
Have to agree with MT and Camboon here. Jack makes good points about over complicating game plans too. For mine I think we have a fairly strong consensus on what needs to be done to put us back on track and it seems fairly obvious to me so you would hope the same is true for whoever claims the coaching role. But I'm not confident this is the case. I remember for over a year I thought we needed to try Richo on the wing to make us less predictable and to give our young forwards space to develop (and I know I wasn't the lone voice with these sentiments here either) yet it seemed to take forever for TW to make the move.

Experts (and I believe I am not going so far in using this label) such as MT, who watch most trainings and can see patterns and obvious flaws, should be sort out and voice heard. If our list is used to never being pulled up for making errors at training, never practicing the 1% including tackling/shepherding/blocking/dummy leads etc and placing a very uncontested style, then surely this flaw needs to be made foremost in the mind of the new coach?!

TW to me seemed like he was a distant coach rather than a hands on leader. I think we need an educator and motivator which is leaning me towards Richardson and Hinkley over Hardwick now.

I just pray that what we discussing here is foremost in the mind of any new coach we gain for if it isn't we could see more wasted years ahead.

Stripes

Offline Smokey

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 9279
Re: Where did Terry go wrong?!
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2009, 10:40:29 PM »
Demands hardness and fire from the playing group
Match Tactics, Strategy & Game Style
Team first mentality

These are the ones I went for

Leadership, confidence and vision
This would have been my 4th choice, but I think this would come by default if you get the top 3 right in the first place

Empathy, understanding and mutual respect with the list
Development of individuals skills, confidence and footy-smarts
Innovatiion and creativity

Important, but not the most important. Many aspects in this area can be delegated to others in the matchday committee

Promotion, media savy, attracting membership & sponsors
Purely a bonus, if the coach is winning he could be a grumpy old bastard like Mick Malthouse and no one would care

Ditto.

Tigermonk

  • Guest
Re: Where did Terry go wrong?!
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2009, 07:08:14 AM »
Leatherskin Wallet is gone.   l dont want to waste my time talking about where he went wrong

all mouth no action

THE END

FooffooValve

  • Guest
Re: Where did Terry go wrong?!
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2009, 09:54:29 AM »
Terry would make a good opposition analyst.

I think he was more concerned with how to pick apart the other team's game plan than he was with developing, drilling and enforcing his own. It's a trap that many coaches fall into.

TigerTimeII

  • Guest
Re: Where did Terry go wrong?!
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2009, 10:10:16 AM »
where did terry go wrong?

well he didnt!  HIS PARENTS ARE THE ONES THAT MADE A MISTAKE!!!!!

Jackstar is back

  • Guest
Re: Where did Terry go wrong?!
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2009, 10:21:44 AM »
Terry would make a good opposition analyst.

I think he was more concerned with how to pick apart the other team's game plan than he was with developing, drilling and enforcing his own. It's a trap that many coaches fall into.

no he wouldnt, he used to go home at half time. ;)

Offline Beren

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 503
Re: Where did Terry go wrong?!
« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2009, 04:32:28 PM »
You left out a good teacher. If you can't teach 'em none of the above will happen.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

Hellenic Tiger

  • Guest
Re: Where did Terry go wrong?!
« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2009, 08:26:44 PM »
We can blame Terry all we like and fair enough too but the RFC and all us fans were seduced by him and thought he was The Messiah and the media lapped it up.

He was what the club wanted at the time someone with a high profile from the Dogs and the media who was going to be perceived as a person whose status would raise revenue in the almost bare club coffers.

The most pertinent point was made by MT was after he initially kept us competitive to seduce us in early 2005 he didn't eat into the list recruited Graham when we could have picked up another youngster and after being 7-2 Brown broke his leg in rd 10 and the psyche of the club and all the momentum we had despite two horrible losses to Geelong and St Kilda that year had been halted never to recover.

The RFC and Terry played catch up since then and success eluded us. An early finals campaign in Terry's reign may have resulted in him still being coach. Furthermore we hoped Brown would at sometime return to something of his old spark which has never eventuated and eventually Terry fell on his own sword.

It is from these mistakes that club coach and fans must learn from and most importantly the club to make a right decision going forward in selecting the right person long term not selecting a so called Messiah for a quick fix as Terry was this time five years ago otherwise we will make the same mistakes again and history will keep on repeating itself much to our detriment and frustration.

Offline mightytiges

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 58590
  • Eat 'Em Alive!
    • oneeyed-richmond.com
Re: Where did Terry go wrong?!
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2009, 03:37:22 PM »
Terry would make a good opposition analyst.

I think he was more concerned with how to pick apart the other team's game plan than he was with developing, drilling and enforcing his own. It's a trap that many coaches fall into.
Yep his one strength seemed to be picking apart a specialised gameplan that everyone else had trouble against. Knocking off thge unbeaten Essendon in 2000, the keepings off game against Adelaide in 2006, and turning the cluster back onto Hawthorn in round 21 last year. The problem is picking apart a gameplan works only once and is too focussed on what the opposition is doing rather than focussing on what we needed to do and how we needed to play to win most weeks over a 22 round season.
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd