Face Off - Richo v Franklin

[Smokey]

Buddys 67 goals this year is equal to Matthew Richardsons second best ever season (goal wise)

Not bad for a player who had an "ordinary year by his standards".

And he only polled 4 Brownlow votes and his side couldn't make the 8  - couldn't have had too much impact.

Franklin has played 102 games, kicked 305 goals and received 35 Brownlow votes in 5 seasons in a 2 times finals and premiership winning team.  After 6 seasons (lost 1 with knee reco) Richo had played 99 games and kicked 317 goals and received 37 Brownlow votes in a 1 times finals team that he only played 8 full games.  Franklin has Roughead to take a lot of the pressure off him - Richo had no-one.

Sorry Mat, I can't agree yet.  Buddy could very well end up a champion but to throw that tag on him yet is not appropriate.  Matthew Richardson was a champion but he earnt that over a long career.  And back to my original point - the comparisons at the end of their careers are what will matter more and I believe both Deledio and Tambling have significant upside.  Let's see what they can do under a new coach.

[mat073]

Hey Smokey

Not sure what you are disagreeing with......
I called Buddy a genuine AFL super star not a champion.Do you not think he is a super star of the competition after kicking 250 + goals in the last 3 seasons ?

Is he a top 10 player of the AFL ?....Well I guess that is debatable....lets just call him "Top shelf".

Of the class of 2004....Has Buddy not had the greatest impact on the competition ? I dont think even the most hardcore Brett Deledio fan can argue that.

I do agree with you that the comparisons at the end of their careers is what matters most.The class of 2004 are probably not even at the half way mark of their careers....there is a lot more water to go under that bridge.

I found your Richo/Buddy comparison stats very interesting but to me it proved that there was not much between the two with Richo statistically in front
.It remains to be seen whether Buddy can keep it up for 17 years.(I doubt it)
However Richo never kicked the "ton" and never won a coleman.

[mat073]

Hey Stripes...

I think the next installment of your "FACE OFF'" series should be Buddy vs Richo

 

[Smokey]

Hey Stripes...

I think the next installment of your "FACE OFF'" series should be Buddy vs Richo

 

The other stats at a comparable time are also interesting Mat - Richo had more kicks and more marks but many less handballs.  Behinds kicked are about the same.  Franklin has many many more tackles.

[Stripes]

Hey Stripes...

I think the next installment of your "FACE OFF'" series should be Buddy vs Richo

 

Done!

[Smokey]

Hey Smokey

Not sure what you are disagreeing with......
I called Buddy a genuine AFL super star not a champion.Do you not think he is a super star of the competition after kicking 250 + goals in the last 3 seasons ?

Is he a top 10 player of the AFL ?....Well I guess that is debatable....lets just call him "Top shelf".

Yep, fair enough Mat.  I inadvertently took some 'liberty' with the terminology and I agree that you could call him a star player today but not a champion yet.

Of the class of 2004....Has Buddy not had the greatest impact on the competition ? I dont think even the most hardcore Brett Deledio fan can argue that.

I do agree with you that the comparisons at the end of their careers is what matters most.The class of 2004 are probably not even at the half way mark of their careers....there is a lot more water to go under that bridge.

Yes you are correct.  Franklin is ahead of both of them now but again, I was applying the 'champion' status in my thinking and you can only do that much further into their careers - at which point I believe both Deledio and Tambling may have proved to be just as good, if not better in the long term.

I found your Richo/Buddy comparison stats very interesting but to me it proved that there was not much between the two with Richo statistically in front
.It remains to be seen whether Buddy can keep it up for 17 years.(I doubt it)
However Richo never kicked the "ton" and never won a coleman.

Yep, Franklin's longevity at the top is yet to be seen and as for tons and Colemans - many great full forwards went through their careers without winning either.  Remember also that Richo was not always played deep - he spent a fair bit of time up the ground and as I mentioned earlier - he was always one out, no Roughead to take some heat.

[Stripes]

The other thread began to turn into an debate over who was better between Buddy and Richo so just to make it formal and not derail the other thread -

Who is the better player - Richo or Buddy?

[Smokey]

Maybe one of the Mods can move the relevant posts from the other one to kick start this one?

[the_boy_jake]

Richo was an athletic goal kicking enigma with incredible attributes and basic kicking technique problems. Franklin is much the same. But its not really a good comparison until we've seen another 3 or 4 seasons of Franklin. He could go either way - iron out his flaws, stay off the booze and become a regular 100 goal kicker, or become Hawthorn's problem child.

Should I start a new thread on apples vs. oranges?   

[mat073]

Just some stats to kick things off

Richo kicked a bag of 6 in just his 4th AFL game.

Then another bag of 7 in his 14th game
Then another bag of 8 in his 15th game
Then another bag of 7 in his 16th game

It took Buddy 24 games to have his first significant goal haul....6 goals against us in 2006.

From this I conclude that Richo had a far more exciting start to his career.

It took Richo 37 games to kick his first 100 goals.
it took Buddy 49 games to kick his first 100 goals

It took Richo 64 games to kick 200 goals
It took Buddy 73 games to kick 200 goals.

It took Richo 97 games to kick 300 goals
It took Buddy 101 games to kick 300 goals

[mat073]

Where Buddy leaves Richo for dead is defensive pressure.

Buddy has already laid 75 more takles than Richo in 170 less games....


Oh Richo.....all duck and no dinner.

[Tigermonk]

Where Buddy leaves Richo for dead is defensive pressure.

Buddy has already laid 75 more takles than Richo in 170 less games....


Oh Richo.....all duck and no dinner.

Them stats are meaningless and prove nothing
The ball could have been in the Hawthorn forward line 100 times to Richmonds 15 in a game, just a example.
whos to say Richo did not push a player off the ball 10 times during a game,  but it wont be shown as a tackle.
Stats are overated in the game of football

Richo would kill Franklin in his overall career even with his bad kicking

[Infamy]

Where Buddy leaves Richo for dead is defensive pressure.

Buddy has already laid 75 more takles than Richo in 170 less games....


Oh Richo.....all duck and no dinner.

How about you compare the total tackles in an entire AFL season from 1993 to 2009

[Gigantor]

as good as buddy is/will be theres only one Richo...it has to be the big lug

[one-eyed]

Maybe one of the Mods can move the relevant posts from the other one to kick start this one?

Done