Author Topic: Why Richmond must improve rapidly if they are to make September (Foxsports)  (Read 6510 times)

Offline one-eyed

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Why Richmond Tigers must improve rapidly if they are to make 2016 AFL finals series in September

Tom Morris
Foxsports
April 3, 2016


WHAT is Richmond?

Are they premiership contenders, finals aspirants or simply making up the numbers?

On the evidence of the last two weeks, it would appear the Tigers are more the latter than the first two.

In Round 1, they narrowly defeated Carlton. On Friday night, Damien Hardwick’s men lost an error-riddled game to the Magpies by a solitary point.

Yet in fairness, a draw would have been an appropriate result such was the sloppiness of the game.

Even Nathan Buckley admitted Collingwood is “so far away” from where they want to be. But based on Friday night’s data, the Magpies are ahead of their Punt Road neighbours — if only by a whisker.

The harsh reality is Richmond’s premiership window is now. They aren’t planning for 2018 like Melbourne or St Kilda. They expect to be challenging now.

Only they’re not.

Richmond’s window is not in any immediate danger of closing — say in the mould of North Melbourne or even Hawthorn — rather it’s their propensity to waste three consecutive September opportunities that is most troubling. It won’t be open forever.

But in assessing the Tigers’ position, it’s first important to look at their list demographic.

Firstly, they have fewer players aged under 21 than any other club, indicating a conscious shift towards trading and drafting for the now rather than the future.

For further evidence, look no further than the 2011,12,13 and 14 rookie drafts.

In each of these intakes, the Tigers have acquired nine players and each of these nine has played at least one senior game, but only one has reached 50 matches.

And these rookies weren’t teenagers searching for a lifeline, rather mature-age recruits such as Ricky Petterd, Brad Miller, Matt Thomas and Orren Stephenson.

Only Anthony Miles has found a regular position in the team. The midfielder is also the only one of this nine that remains on the list.

So considering Richmond’s push to bring in Essendon-style top-ups, shouldn’t its premiership aspirations be immediate? The answer is of course yes — not that you’d know it from the first two rounds of the season.

Moreover, Champion Data rates their top eight players as elite, but their depth is far from top echelon.

In 2015, Tiger players ranked 17-22 by Champion Data had the fifth worst rating of any club in the AFL, illustrating this deficiency in their spread of talent.

In other words, having Brett Deledio, Jack Riewoldt, Dustin Martin and Alex Rance is all well and good, but they need more help.

It’s these so-called ‘mid-ranked’ players that continue to cost Richmond.

On Friday night, it was Shaun Grigg who Damien Hardwick singled out. Grigg may have accumulated 30 disposals for the evening, but in the critical moment, he failed.

“I thought we played some really unintelligent footy towards the end,” Damien Hardwick lamented post-match.

“Shaun Grigg, with a minute-and-a-half to go, has a long shot from outside 50 and we play on.

“From a situation like that, we never do that.”

Cast your mind back to last June, when similarly rated Tiger Bachar Houli made a poor mistake in the dying seconds of his team’s loss to Fremantle at the MCG.

At least on Friday night, faced with an almost identical scenario, the skilful left-footer played on from full-back and booted the Sherrin long and away from danger.

Although these incidents are isolated events within games, as a pattern they paint a bleak picture for a club that is starved of finals success despite finishing in the top eight in each of the past three seasons.

But it’s not all doom and gloom.

At 1-1, Richmond’s season is hardly teetering on the brink — although dates with Adelaide and West Coast in Rounds 3 and 4 complicate matters somewhat. And seven ordinary quarters out of eight does not exactly fill the Richmond faithful with hope at this early stage.

“It’s a tough game,” Hardwick said.

“Collingwood had some players out and we had some guys out. I still thought we had enough players to win the game.

“We’ve got to battle and hang tough … and get back on track.”

Maybe this last quote illustrates the underlying issue for the Tigers.

Much like Hardwick the player, they have become accustomed to scratching and clawing under Hardwick the coach.

If dare and flair is how games will be won this year, then Richmond is well off the mark.

Admittedly, the Tigers will continue to fight, but the very best teams rise above weekly cage fights.

Sure, Hawthorn, Sydney and West Coast are prepared to lock horns with their opposition and battle for the four points to the bitter end, but in the vast majority of their games, they don’t give the other team a sniff in the first place.

And once these top teams are in front — even by a couple of goals — they rarely let the opposition back in the contest.

They are ruthlessly efficient. The same cannot be said for Richmond, who lack proficiency — which hurt them against the Magpies.

Maybe they are saving their best for September?

Based on Rounds 1 and 2, something needs to change if they are to progress beyond August.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/why-richmond-tigers-must-improve-rapidly-if-they-are-to-make-2016-afl-finals-series-in-september/news-story/bdae4771d245146e9a9a07df90a1959c

Offline Yeahright

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What does our list look like when you don't consider rookies? Everyone knows we use our rookie list differently and go for safe depth over the young kids.

Also, they mention only one player has made 50 games off our rookie list in those years but how many do other clubs have? I imagine not many have much more

Offline Diocletian

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We've taken four kids over the last two rookie drafts...Castagna, Short, Choi & Moore - 5 if you want to count Soldo....
"Much of the social history of the Western world, over the past three decades, has been a history of replacing what worked with what sounded good...."

- Thomas Sowell


FJ is the only one that makes sense.

Offline the claw

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What does our list look like when you don't consider rookies? Everyone knows we use our rookie list differently and go for safe depth over the young kids.

Also, they mention only one player has made 50 games off our rookie list in those years but how many do other clubs have? I imagine not many have much more
I have done this to death over the years.
Under Jackson, that is the last 10 yrs  we would have utilised at least 40 rookie picks and plenty of  picks after the third round on top of that. and only one imo has turned out to be an above average player and that is Miles. the best of the rest would be King and Nahas.. It is a similar story with late nd picksafter the third round. in fact it is similar with most picks outside of the 1st round of the nd.Only Grimes comes to mind and he was a psd pick.

If you are looking for a team who has had good success with rookie picks and very late nd picks you know 4th round onwards look no further than the one we played on friday night.Their 2010 premiership side would have had 9 or 10 players taken after pick 60. 5 or 6 would have been rookies.  Thats just their premiership side.ANd all of em would have played 100 games forget about 50.
Some others who did not play in that premiership side
Seedsman, Williams, J Thomas, Witts, Sinclair, Frost, Oxley, Marsh, Langdon, Keefe, Nearly all of em rookie picks and not one taken inside pick 60.I think most will go on to play at least 50 games.


Offline YellowandBlackBlood

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Seedsman is not there anymore.
Sinclair is according to most Pies supporters I know not up to it.
Marsh is quick but is an atrocious kick.
Keefe and Thomas are serving the second of their 2 year holiday.
Out of the rest most only rate Oxley.

Just because we found a way to lose,  disguises the fact that the pies were just so poor in the last two weeks. I would hardly be praising them. Take out Pendelbury, Treloar, Elliott and poosibly Moore, they don't have too much class IMHO.
OER. Calling it as it is since 2004.

Offline Willy

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Yeah Pies are ass. Wouldn't use them as any kind of benchmark.

Offline the claw

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Seedsman is not there anymore.
Sinclair is according to most Pies supporters I know not up to it.
Marsh is quick but is an atrocious kick.
Keefe and Thomas are serving the second of their 2 year holiday.
Out of the rest most only rate Oxley.

Just because we found a way to lose,  disguises the fact that the pies were just so poor in the last two weeks. I would hardly be praising them. Take out Pendelbury, Treloar, Elliott and poosibly Moore, they don't have too much class IMHO.
Whos praising them The question was how many rookies from other clubs have played 50 games.
 
I mentioned just one club and they have had god knows how many who fit that criteria.I extended the criteria to picks after the 3rd round basically picks from 60 onwards.And included many late nd and rookie picks from recent years.
Seedsman - played 76 games for them i have no idea why he is not there anymore he is doing okay in adelaide. he is still a rookie pick weather he is there or not. Maybe Nahas doesnt count because he is now at nm.
Sinclair -  has played 46 games and will likely meet the 50 game criteria this year i wasnt asked to rate them.
Marsh -  has enormous upside .  atrocious kick my arse. He did enough to get a two yr extension after one season.An athletic freak who they have turned into a promising tall defender.
Keefe -  They thought high enough of Keefe to keep him. He will play plenty of games next year imo.  Without the two year suspension he would be well over 50 games by now.Keefe Brown and Reid will give them a very good tall defensive set up
Thomas  - played 32 games and looked half decent to me, especially for a rookie pick.Again they thought enough of him to keep him.Probably would have played more than 50 games by now if not for the suspension.
Oxley  - has only played 20 -  25 odd games he looks like he will be at least a 100 plus gamer.
Williams - will probably reach 50 games this yr.
Frost - will probably just be back up but he is no worse than some of our kpds.
Langdon - became a regular in his first season i wish we could draft young rookies and get that sort of result. He has managed 42 games already.
Witts - geez a ruckman who has come thru the rookie system dunno where he will end up.I wish we could boast a similar result in the rookie draft when was the last time we had a ruckman play many games from anywhere in the drafts.

But wait lets look at those who Played in their  PREMIERSHIP. You know those things we only dream about.
Maxwell  - retired played what 200 plus.
Toovey  - 100 plus games
Lumumba - traded played 200 plus.
Wellingham -   traded 100 plus games.
Swan -  a pick in the 4th round  200 plus games.
Johnson -  retired a pick in the 5th round 200 plus gamer.
Blair  - 100 plus gamer.
Macaffer - 74 games.
Goldsack - Goldsack  100 plus games.
No one expects guns with rookie picks or late nd picks but Collingwood have done well with these picks especially when compared to our efforts with them.

Seems to me they find plenty of players unlike us with these late picks.I wish we could do as well.


Offline Chuck17

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I know one poster who was praising them no end

Frankly it was sickening especially as they are so harsh on RFC

Offline the claw

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Ah the dick head brigade have arrived.

Praising them!!!!

 i dont think so,  just rate them higher than our lot.Its not a hard thing to do atm.Seems that is not allowed rating other teams better than your own how dare people think that way eh.

So here we are talking about rookies and late nd picks and who has done better with those types of picks   and what do we get? A  dick head trying to take a cheap shot,  with another nothing post aimed to derail the topic  a p[ost that is  totally irrelevant to the topic being discussed. No wonder  all decent discussion goes out the window on this site..



Offline Chuck17

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You wouldn't know decent discussion if it slapped you in the face

And yes you were praising them, if that wasn't your intention please be aware that perception is in the eyes of the beholder

Offline the claw

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You wouldn't know decent discussion if it slapped you in the face

And yes you were praising them, if that wasn't your intention please be aware that perception is in the eyes of the beholder
Yep way to derail a topic well done,  another totally irrelevant post to the topic that was being discussed. Wheres your spineless Hyena brethren funny man. Not like you to have the courage to be about by yourself.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 01:07:09 PM by WilliamPowell »

Offline Lozza

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On a basic level I think the issue we have at the moment is our A graders performances have plateaued and our 2nd tier players haven't lifted their level enough to fill the gap. As a result we have become a team bereft of star power and if we dont perform at a peak level across the board any team in the competition will give us trouble. Other top sides do have this star power and it might just win you that 3 or 4 close games which make the difference between a top 4 side and a team battling to make the 8.

This season especially I keep hearing new names of players from other sides who weren't especially high draft picks but are suddenly performing at a higher level. We dont seem to have that same continual development so in our current situation we really dont have much left in the bank.

Offline Willy

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On a basic level I think the issue we have at the moment is our A graders performances have plateaued and our 2nd tier players haven't lifted their level enough to fill the gap. As a result we have become a team bereft of star power and if we dont perform at a peak level across the board any team in the competition will give us trouble. Other top sides do have this star power and it might just win you that 3 or 4 close games which make the difference between a top 4 side and a team battling to make the 8.

This season especially I keep hearing new names of players from other sides who weren't especially high draft picks but are suddenly performing at a higher level. We dont seem to have that same continual development so in our current situation we really dont have much left in the bank.

Good summation.

Offline Chuck17

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You wouldn't know decent discussion if it slapped you in the face

And yes you were praising them, if that wasn't your intention please be aware that perception is in the eyes of the beholder
Yep way to derail a topic well done D/H,  another totally irrelevant post to the topic that was being discussed. Wheres your spineless Hyena brethren funny man. Not like you to have the courage to be about by yourself.

You make me laugh

Offline cub

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Yeah Pies are ass. Wouldn't use them as any kind of benchmark.
This