The rebuilding is NOT taking long.

[Judge Roughneck]

the basic argument here is :

High Draft Picks VS Winning Club Culture and frankly id rather a winning culture to a losing one.

Myth IMO. Media/Internet forum spin rubbish.

Carlton won the most flags ever, and never had a spoon. This would be best record, hence best 'winning club culture'.

And yet largly due to poor list managment and draft mistakes, the had the worse run of any side ever 02-07 or so.

Fact remains, I hope our young players shine the rest of the year and get us over a few games - or at least shop us from getting smashed. However - come draft day top 3 pick are like gold - kids like Cotchin and Deledio don't come around often.

Another player of the ilk would be very helpful long term.

[Judge Roughneck]

richoatthedisco

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Richmond supporters know a lot about hope. We've been living there for a quarter of a century.
It began in disbelief. Premiers in 1980; favourites in 82.
They dropped BT for the grand final. He's kicked 80 for the year. I don't believe it. But we'll still win.
Confidence.
It began with confidence.
Disbelief set in when the Blues kicked away to a three goal lead. Hope was Rioli, our Maurice, weaving his way through traffic like a Balinese taxi driver. He brought us back into the game. Then the Dominator and his Blues kicked away again. We lost.
Disbelief.
Cloke; Raines, walk out.
Incredulity.
Bourke sacked; Wood leaves. WTF?
We still manage to thump Hawthorn a few times (Disco 11), but that dries up quick smart.
KB retires.
BT joins Cloke at Collingwood and kicks a ton. We get Craig Stewart.
F*ck me.
A revolving door of former players hauled in from bush leagues to be sacked after a year.
Sheedy coaches Bombers back-to-back. Mum's favourite player. "That'll come back to bite us on the bum," GR had said when Sheeds left. Who would have thought winning the 1980 premiership would have such far-reaching, negative consequences?
KB appointed coach. Hope. 17 year old Knights. Hope. Save our Skins. Despair. Disbelief. A decade to go from dominant to desperate. We lose to Hawthorn 17 times in a row.
Despair.
Recycled duds. Useless top draft picks. Wooden spoons???!!!

But still we hoped.

And then there was Richo.
Hope. Born anew. Like the colt that streets the field in its first race, you were on him for life.
For a decade and a half we hoped, we hung our hats on Richo delivering a flag, hoping for yet never quite seeing a team built around him capable of complementing and cashing in on his unique gifts.

Richo is the Rome that burnt while Richmond's Nero's fiddled.
But he's still there, still burning. And still we hope.
Roam, Rome! and burn bright our shining star!

To see the 33-year-old stallion released from the paddock and galloping the field is to witness hope expressed in its purest physical form. It's Old Regret's colt released from long years at the rodeo getting ridden into the ground by two, three cowboys a week, for another crack with the wild bush horses. And isn't he having a crack!
But I wax.

Hope has its eye on the future. Ricmond's hope is that we can build a team to win a premiership and enjoy a sustained run of success.

If you're anything like me, you hope Richo's still around to enjoy it, but it's not looking likely. We hope the Big Fella can play until he's 40, or at least 36. We hope we can win a flag for him in that time.
We hope.
We hope.

Hope #1: Mark Coughlan. If we are to have any hope of challenging in the next few years this man's successful return to or near his best is the key. The hope engendered watching a 20-year-old Coughlan win 12 clearances in a losing late-season AAMI stadium effort six years ago is still around, transformed into the hope he can get back on the park safely. But if he can... if he can... it will take enourmous pressure off -

Hope #2: Brett Deledio. We hope for - nay, expect a superstar. We hope he will become one. Having Cogs there will benefit him enormously, hopefully allowing his brilliance to fully flourish on the biggest stages and win us a flag. It might. If...

Hope #3: Matthew Richardson sustains his magnificence for long enough for the rest to catch up. Does anyone seriously doubt his ability to do an Alastair Lynch in a good team? Put a gun team in front of him, sit him in the goal square and he'll kick 70 on his ear.

Hope #4: As always with Batman, we hope for and need Robin to be around to deliver and share in the spoils. That depends on...

Hope #5: The development of another key forward. The fact I can't name a Great White Hope currently on our list doesn't give me much hope. I hope the romance of coming home to help the Tigers win one appeals to Jonathon Brown. That depends on building a strong side, which depends on...

Hope #6: Developing the kids. Cotchin, the best thing since Deledio. We hope he's a wunderkind.

Hope #6: We picked the right kids.

Hope #7: We made the right trades.

Hope #8: Wallace knows what he's doing.

These sub-hopes are the building blocks of the ultimate hope, to win a premiership - soon, or any time. Hell, just to believe we're a chance every year instead of knowing we're not.

And we hope Richo is there.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=439242

[Judge Roughneck]

I like the first 3 points. I would agree with them and add another one.

If we are to have major success within next 3 season period: 2009-2012 I beleive we need:

 - Cogs to come back. He will be massive bonus for club if he can back into our side.
 - Deledio to develop into the superstar that he should have been as it is written in the stars
 - Richo to give us at least 2 more years, hopfully closer to 4. Off the bench we should be able to play him as a wildcard floating wingman. He is 33 but he should be able to provide a Kouta-like impact, but greater. He is amazinly fit and fast still, outsprinted Luke Hodge in 150 meter run at the end of the game - and beat him by miles.

I would also one more - Nathan Brown. Because he missed so long he should have at least another 3 years in him. If we play him mostly as a Forward, with stints in the middle he should be able to play a long time yet. I feel he will be the difference between making finals, and making finals and having chance to win. You cannot replace class.

[Ramps]

the basic argument here is :

High Draft Picks VS Winning Club Culture and frankly id rather a winning culture to a losing one.

That's right blx.
People like Ramps would prefer us to tank, so we can get Naitanui, no thanks, losing is a bad disease that this club has had a lot of trouble getting rid of, the sooner we recover from that nasty virus the better.

And btw Ramps I'm not having a go at you about that, I fully understand your logic on topping up on high quality just that one more time, if we can get 8 wins this year and finish 10th, a No.7 draft pick will still inject a fair bit of class you'd hope.

I just feel that we need one more top up thats all. I understand we wont get Natanui or Rich now, Im still hoping for a Hurley but even a Trengrove may be ok for us in the first round, but Ill say this, theres a big difference in 1 draft spot, Essendon used No 7 to Ryder and we used 8 and got JON. In 2011, 2012 I dont want us to be looking around for the 1 player that can win us a flag having said that if we got a Warnock on the cheap and landed Hurley then it would be party time draft wise at Punt Rd.

[Judge Roughneck]

the basic argument here is :

High Draft Picks VS Winning Club Culture and frankly id rather a winning culture to a losing one.

That's right blx.
People like Ramps would prefer us to tank, so we can get Naitanui, no thanks, losing is a bad disease that this club has had a lot of trouble getting rid of, the sooner we recover from that nasty virus the better.

And btw Ramps I'm not having a go at you about that, I fully understand your logic on topping up on high quality just that one more time, if we can get 8 wins this year and finish 10th, a No.7 draft pick will still inject a fair bit of class you'd hope.

I just feel that we need one more top up thats all. I understand we wont get Natanui or Rich now, Im still hoping for a Hurley but even a Trengrove may be ok for us in the first round, but Ill say this, theres a big difference in 1 draft spot, Essendon used No 7 to Ryder and we used 8 and got JON. In 2011, 2012 I dont want us to be looking around for the 1 player that can win us a flag having said that if we got a Warnock on the cheap and landed Hurley then it would be party time draft wise at Punt Rd.

Agreed.

A Palmer or Ryder type pick 6-10 ould be the iceing on the cake.

[rogerd3]

looks like TW will see the 5 year exercise through as per the age article, round 12 wasnt it?

[Mr Magic]

looks like TW will see the 5 year exercise through as per the age article, round 12 wasnt it?

unless "something went completely pear-shaped", - March

In football nothing is guaranteed.
In saying that I've seen enough already this season to suggest Terry is safe.

[mightytiges]

I just feel that we need one more top up thats all. I understand we wont get Natanui or Rich now, Im still hoping for a Hurley but even a Trengrove may be ok for us in the first round, but Ill say this, theres a big difference in 1 draft spot, Essendon used No 7 to Ryder and we used 8 and got JON. In 2011, 2012 I dont want us to be looking around for the 1 player that can win us a flag having said that if we got a Warnock on the cheap and landed Hurley then it would be party time draft wise at Punt Rd.

Agree Ramps. Another influx of some classy top notch youth (after one more clean out) and our list will start to look very healthy going forward.

This week could be significant in determining where we finish this year. Win and we'll stay around 50%; lose and we could be have just 2.5 wins after 8 rounds despite much improved efforts that pushed the top sides.

[Judge Roughneck]

Ok, well the future will be intersting. To be honest after the Carlton game I was pretty saddened with the club. pee poor to be losing to Carlton without Judd. However, in the first half we looked not too bad at patches. At times this season we have should we might be ok down the track at some stage. It will be funny to see in 18 months how good and how long it has taken.

2 major points:

i. Our spine post-Polak is going to be intersting also.

ii. The paper posted first 3 players in the best as: Deledio, Cotchin, Foley. This alone must be enough to get somewhat happy about in these times of bleakness.

In terms of the playing list we need to get our poo together and stop joking ourself.

The following players must go: Bowden, Hyde, Pettifer, Tivendale, Howatt.

Cogs and Polak look long term 'injury unknowns'.

At this point we must develop and spine and midfeild for the future.

Rest Richo, Simmonds.

McMahon Thursfeild Moore
Connors Rance Newman
Tambling Cotchin Edwards
Morton Reiwoldt Brown
Collins Hughes White
Pattison Deleio Foley
Johnson Polo King Tuck

Play McGaune @ CHB for the Burgers and expect him to dominate to push for a senior game. Ditto Schultz CHF & Graham ruck. Putt and Gourdis must also play coburg 1's, not reserve rest of season. Raines & Jackson must start in middle. Meyer, JON, Casserly, Collard need to start showing something.

In our words - Tank now.

[Tigermonk]

Our club puts in pee poor efforts because some of them are playing with injuries & shouldnot be out there at all 
The club is at fault for this, if we are going to lose anyway because of injuries,  then we may as well play players who need game time & see what they have to offer. We should be protecting our injured players from more serious damage 

[Infamy]

Rubbish, all clubs have to manage niggling injuries.
If we rested everyone who wasn't 100% then we wouldn't have 22 players to field in a game.

[Tigermonk]

Rubbish, all clubs have to manage niggling injuries.
If we rested everyone who wasn't 100% then we wouldn't have 22 players to field in a game.

thats rubbish other clubs would have rested Simmonds long ago & we not short of Ruckmen
Richo is another being pushed to the brink

[Infamy]

Richo is pushing himself to the limit.
You try telling the biggest Richmond supporter there is that he has to sit out of the centenary match when he's playing his best career ever.
He said himself before the match that he probably wouldn't be playing if it wasn't such a big game

[Tigermonk]

Richo is pushing himself to the limit.
You try telling the biggest Richmond supporter there is that he has to sit out of the centenary match when he's playing his best career ever.
He said himself before the match that he probably wouldn't be playing if it wasn't such a big game

Thats true he wouldnot like to miss the game & we all want him playing but he should have been rested after the All star game as should Simmonds & we could have won a few games including the centenery with fitter players
would think the coach & selectors would have thought the same but thier not thinkers at all 

[Infamy]

we could have won a few games including the centenery with fitter players
would think the coach & selectors would have thought the same but thier not thinkers at all 

That's the decision the match commitee have to make every week. Is Simmonds @ 70% worth more to us than Graham @ 100%.
To be honest I think you're off your rocker if you think you choose Graham in that situation.
Players from ALL clubs are managed through injuries, you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

Just one example off the top of my head was Chad Cornes who had been playing with his finger not fully healed from surgury on a torn tendon, plus an ongoing knee concern. He's out now that Port are out of the finals, but had they still been in the hunt you can bet he'd still be playing.