2009 list structure

[one-eyed]

Here's our list breakdown after the draft.....

Ages -  Round 1, 2009  (current number of games)

34: Richo (276)
31: Browny (206), Johnson (220)
30: Bowden (253), Cousins (238), Simmonds (179)
-----------------------------
27: Pettifer (109), Tuck (91)
26: Coughlan (83), Newman (133)
25: McMahon (136), King (33), Moore (46)
24: Polak (106), Silvester# (-)
23: Schulz (67), Foley (70), Pattison (53), Raines (53)
------------------------------
22: Jackson (47),  Polo (31), Thomson (28), Thursfield (40), Hughes (16), McGuane (32), Morton (29), Tambling (75)
21: Deledio (84), Graham (2), White (38), JON (9), Nahas# (-)
20: Hislop (7), Collins (-), Connors (8 ), Edwards (32), Riewoldt (26), Gourdis# (-)
19: Putt (-), Post (-), Rance (-)
18: Cotchin (15), Vickery (-), Browne# (-), Gilligan# (-)

Age break at 21 and under
Oldies: 6
Prime: 21
Youth: 18

Age Break at 22 and under
Oldies: 6
Prime: 13
Youth: 26

Structure

Rucks (6): Browne# (205), Putt (202), Graham (200), Vickery (200), Pattison (197), Simmonds (196)

Bigger Talls (3): Richo (195), Polak (194), Post (194)

Talls (9): Hughes (193), Schulz (193), Gourdis# (192), Rance (192), Riewoldt (192), McGuane (191), Thursfield (191), Silvester# (191), Moore (189)

Tall Mids (8 ): Deledio (189), Tuck (189), Bowden (188), JON (188), Jackson (187), Johnson (187), Polo (187), Coughlan (186)

Midsize Mids (11): Cotchin (185), Hislop (185), McMahon (185), Morton (185), Collins (184), Connors (184), Raines (184), Thomson (184), Newman (183), Pettifer (183), Brown (182)

Small Mids (7): Edwards (180), Tambling (180), White (179), Foley (177), Gilligan# (177), Nahas# (176), King (174)

[Fluffy Tiger]

A bit of work put into this post so it seems a shame for it to slip off the front page without comment.

A couple of thing struck me,

Many on our list is starting to move into the 22-26 age bracket so its getting close to thier best time
Thing that got me the most is that Shulz is only 23, seems like he has been on list for ever. Moore showed last year that some of the bigs guys can take some time to reach the level required, maybe Schulz, Hughes and Patterson will take that step this year.
I expect that maybe only 2 of the 27+ y/o guys will be on out list next year. (Maybe 3 if Browny has a good one this year). The timeing might not be great due the compromised draft for a few retirements but thats the way its looking. Only thing is we may have some trade bait next year though so who knows.

[Chuck17]

The line between prime and youth is interesting as well as we have 8 players that have hit the bottom rung of prime.

If youth was determined until 22

The numbers would change from

Oldies: 5
Prime: 21
Youth: 14

to

Oldies: 5
Prime: 13
Youth: 22

I didn't need my calculator for that either 

[Stripes]

I noticed that too Chuck. There is only one year difference between players such as Bling and Lids (who were taken in the same draft) yet one player is categorised as in their prime and the other as a youth.

What it does show us is that our large group of young 'better' players are starting to move into that 'prime' area which should equate to success. 


Stripes

[mightytiges]

The line between prime and youth is interesting as well as we have 8 players that have hit the bottom rung of prime.

If youth was determined until 22

The numbers would change from

Oldies: 5
Prime: 21
Youth: 14

to

Oldies: 5
Prime: 13
Youth: 22

I didn't need my calculator for that either 

Yeah the cut-off maybe should be between 22/23 instead as by 23 footballers should be starting to deliver but some of those 22 year olds on that list have birthdays in April so the cut-off could have gone either side of 22. Either way it shows we are still a young side with most of our list under 23. Also from the "prime" category, Polak and Petts are out of the picture due to injury and Cogs is an unknown. So the number of Tigers classed in their "prime" to choose from is less in reality.

Schulz turns 24 on April 18 so effectively he'll be 24 next year during the footy season.

[Judge Roughneck]

The line between prime and youth is interesting as well as we have 8 players that have hit the bottom rung of prime.

If youth was determined until 22

The numbers would change from

Oldies: 5
Prime: 21
Youth: 14

to

Oldies: 5
Prime: 13
Youth: 22

I didn't need my calculator for that either 

Yeah the cut-off maybe should be between 22/23 instead as by 23 footballers should be starting to deliver but some of those 22 year olds on that list have birthdays in April so the cut-off could have gone either side of 22. Either way it shows we are still a young side with most of our list under 23. Also from the "prime" category, Polak and Petts are out of the picture due to injury and Cogs is an unknown. So the number of Tigers classed in their "prime" to choose from is less in reality.

Schulz turns 24 on April 18 so effectively he'll be 24 next year during the footy season.

23U - XXII
JON/McGaune - Thursfeild - Schultz
Tambling - Rance - White/Polo
Connors - Cotchin - Hislop/Raines
Thomson - Riewoldt - Edwards
Vickery - Hughes/Post - Morton
Pattison/Putt - Deledio - Foley

Jacko Collo Gus


starting to come together abit.

That is our whole list outside 24yoa+
 - Richo, Brown, Simmonds, Tuck, Cogs, Newman, McMahon, Moore

Bowden, Johnson, Pettifer, King, Polak, Silvester should all be gone come 2010 unless someone does something special.

End of Wallace 5th year list should be in good shape. That was sposed to be the plan.

[Judge Roughneck]

Time for an update me thinks please OE - 

[Judge Roughneck]

 - http://www.puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=34516.0

[Judge Roughneck]

B: Kelvin Moore - Will Thursfield - Chris Newman
HB: Joel Bowden - Luke McGuane - Jordan McMahon
C: Brett Deledio - Ben Cousins - Trent Cotchin
HF: Richard Tambling - Jack Riewoldt - Daniel Connors
F: Nathan Brown - Matthew Richardson - Mitch Morton
R: Troy Simmonds - Nathan Foley - Shane Tuck
Int: Andrew Raines - Kane Johnson - Adam Pattison - Jay Schulz

Back-ups

Back Pockets/Flankers
Jake King
Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls

Key Backs
Alex Rance
Jayden Post
Jarrod Silvester *
Graham Polak

Midfielders
Mark Coughlan
Matthew White
Adam Thomson
Daniel Jackson
Dean Polo
Tom Hislop
Andrew Collins

Ruckmen
Tyrone Vickery
Angus Graham
Dean Putt
Andrew Browne *

Key Forwards
Cleve Hughes
David Gourdis *

Forward Pockets/Half Forwards
Shane Edwards
Kayne Pettifer
Robin Nahas *
Alroy Gilligan *

[Rodgerramjet]

We still do not have good quality tall forwards, otherwise it's not looking to bad.

[Infamy]

Certainly wouldn't have Joel Bowden anywhere near the backline for 2009

[Ramps]

We need to draft or trade for atleast 1 big key forward next year. We are getting closer but we will need to find another big key forward. We also need to start retiring some of the senior blokes, next season should be Kane Johnsons and Joel Bowdens last year. We cant have 6 blokes all leaving at the one time, it needs to be orchestrated.

[Smokey]

Got this from another forum - the poster is not normally one to make rash comments or predictions so I am confident his 'source' would have a credible opinion.  It makes an interesting read coming from outside the supporter zone.

Have been having a lengthy conversation with a friend who watches more football then is good for him.

I've tried to summarise what he thought about us -

Vickery was discussed as a number 1 candidate back in July amongst AFL clubs. At that time it was mentioned Richmond were hoping to get him with their first pick (wherever that fell - you'd guess in the 4-9 range at that time!) - and it was laughed off that he'd fall that far.

What changed? Sentiment? Draft camp???? My mate had some bootleg numbers from draft camp. Vickery is strong, but tested badly.
Vertical leap is not seen as being about how high you jump - but an indicator of leg power. He is in the bottom 10 of the 70+ guys. He
was 2nd worse in the 60+ readings for VO2max (which is the best endurance predictor). Good sprints, OK agility, but he isn't going
to leave the ground without doing a lot of leg weights.

The lack of leg power could hurt him standing in tackles, wrestling at throw-ins. Because he can't jump - he can't back away from ruck
opponents and leap over them (like lightweight Naitanui). The lack of power in his legs MIGHT mean he struggles to hold his ground
trying to lock arms and hold a leaper down. Bad combo. This is where things get tough - how tough do you want to be on a 17 year old
after a knee reco? On the upside - he's heavy, combative. A lot more Benny Gale, Drew Petrie, Anthony Rocca. Big contested marker.
Think short, sharp leads.

On Post - a few people were talking him up as a bottom age late round pick last year. This year as a top ager he has improved further and had a good year. We obviously wanted a big body in the backline - to put pressure on Schulz. Is Schulz out of favour?

Post is best at reading play, zoning off, and going to the fall of the ball. Geelong really have made that sort of defence fashionable. If
forced to man-mark he can be found out - he lacks true speed and lateral movement. He can be a bit awkward - 10x better than Silvester though. Good with the footy in his hands, very modern backman. He has the courage to drop back into holes, leave his man, back his judgement. Keeping his confidence up to play like that will be the key. A few pantsings, getting caught one-out at FB etc and it could get ugly.

Thomson comes in as the run-with tagger. Polo is in bother. Jackson is on notice. Both have talent, but neither was able to stop a guy
getting the footy. Jackson played some good footy, but his man kept getting 20+ touches. Richmond need a guy who can keep Kerr to 18
touches.

Andrew Browne is unfashionable. He is a red-headed lump of meat. If you crunched some complex stats you can suggest he was the best junior ruckman in Vic, although your eyes would never let you believe it. He takes a deceptively high number of marks, pinches goals. He can be a Robbie Campbell calibre back-up. He will get to the same level that Pattison is at now.

Browne essentially gets the spot reserved for McCulloch who we missed out on. My friend rated McCulloch highly. Would have him top 30. He compared him to Simmonds. He'd seen McCulloch swooping on loose balls on HFF, turn an opponent, tight-rope along the boundry line,
baulk a guy and goal. (Obviously he has a higher opinion of Simmonds then most of us :-)

Graham, Vickery and Browne. Pattison, Putt. You wouldn't want to be Graham & Putt next November. Even if Simmonds goes - you'd want a good season at Coburg.

Alroy Gilligan is a natural football with wonderful lateral movement. Lateral movement is the jargon for moving sideways. Most clubs
emphasise change of direction, side-step etc above pure straight line speed. Agility is seen as more important than pure jets. Gilligan
could sidestep a jumbo. He is lethal in open space. Give him room in the forward line and he can drop a shoulder, change direction and
zoom, he is gone. He is a bit lazy and a bit thick. He gets lots of front and square goals. The line about him being good overhead on the
AfL draft site was something he hadn't seen in real life.

Nahas was a tough little rover at Oakleigh a few years ago. Handy at first, kept working. Lacked a stand-out quality. Won a lot of
footy, ran hard, was OK for pace and skill but not great. Had a very good finals campaign. Went down to Port and has had to make himself into a forward pocket, but is in truth a natural rover. Already winning awards in a grand final VFL team - so is as ready as he will
ever be. Too light to play midfield, he'll have to be a forward.

Gilligan won't play next year, Nahas will if needed. You'd guess that we took him with a view to Long Term Injury listing Polak. Nahas can
come straight into the squad.

Neither Nahas or Gilligan has much defensive side but their presence will put pressure on Edwards. Edwards tackle-only game won't cut it
with those two around.

Gourdis is straight forward. Richmond think of him as their 'Irishman'. Athletic freak who can't kick and lacks the ego to think
he belongs at the level. He had a one year deal - our choice was to give him a 100% senior contract or a 50% rookie deal, no brainer.

Richmond don't have a tagger. Polo, Jackson are on notice with Thomson wanting their spots. White gets freed up to run or play
back-pocket. Improvement should happen.

Richmond were near league worst in the middle for depth. If you look at the stats, we used Johnson, Tuck, Foley as our center 3 more then any other combo in the league - by a long way. Nahas, Thomson, Hislop might be options. It is hard to make improvements there but
we have tried.

Schulz is seemingly played because we have no one else. Post puts pressure on him.

Simmonds is ageing. Pattison is an honest plodder. Vickery and Browne give us more options. Both Vickery and Browne can go forward
and be more than nuisance value. Putt is also genuinely capable up forward. The two-strings to them will see them provide the long-bomb
option that lets Reiwoldt roam around. That lets us keep the Simmonds style game-plan. It lets us play with a ruck-forward and a forward-ruck every week.

Gilligan and Nahas put pressure on the small forwards. Cotchin is a midfielder (if he gets fit). Edwards not is under pressure. We have
lacked pace (other than Edwards) when it comes to chasing and tackling in the forward-50.

So all in all we covered gaps, filled needs.

This is about building a finals team. Adding depth. Trying to cover weaknesses.

This is NOT a random collection of best-available, wait-and-see, stockpile talent draft.

Nahas, Thomson, Hislop, Post, Cousins are all immediately in the mix. Vickery will take time but can fill-in for Pattison if called on.
Browne is also very top-age, pretty developed. Gourdis and Gilligan are the only 2-year prospects.

Every one of these picks is know-what-you-get. Almost none have much upside-potential. Vickery is the only one who might win a B+F. But all the others could be 50-80 game players.

He said that Richmond fans will like this draft - but scratch it and it is a top-up. It is an attempt to build a team to play finals in
2009.

They have done it with more smarts than Frawley did. They have stayed young enough to build around Cotchin and Deledio. But this is a go-for-it draft.

We have addressed our 2007-2008 weakness (tagger, centre-square depth, big-body defender, ruck-forward back-up, goalsneak). We have added depth.

This is a quiet declaration that we expect to win a final in 2009. We want to win a final before Richo, Johnson, Brown, Simmonds and Cousins quit.

Apologies for the long email - but I value this guys football nouse so tried sucking him dry. It's probably drought time!


http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/tiger-talk/message/89383

[Infamy]

Interesting reading, but Vickery was a bolter late in the year, he got better and better as the year went on. Can't possibly have him considered the #1 pick mid year who slid. The money all year was on Rich, Naitanui with Watts the bolter by half way through the season. I mean there was talk that Melbourne could take him at #1, but it would have been a pretty big shock if they did.

I do agree that this draft appears to be focussed towards kids who will come on quicker with the intention to have depth for the next 4-5 years.

Very harsh call on not wanting to be Putt in November, no chance he'll go cause he's considered a forward over a ruckman anyway. He won't be competing for a spot with Graham & Browne.

Dissapointing we missed out on McCullough though, hope the idiot who spoke too loudly got a good beating afterwards.

[mightytiges]

Vickery didn't look to have much trouble rucking against Nat in the U18 champs. That was a interesting read but I get suspicious when people place such high importance on draft camp results than what a junior actual produces on the field. Sure all those tests are useful and provide a guide but they should only confirm what you've already seen live yourself. They're not complete either. There's no test for natural footy smarts for instance.

I agree with Ramps that we need to still find a big say 196cm key forward. I know we wish Hughes to step up next year and to use Post as a key forward, but picking up another quality big key forward in next year's draft would balance up the list nicely.

I would say 2009 will be Sugar and Joel's final year. IMO one of the reasons Johnno stood down from the captaincy now.