Author Topic: Tigers of old out in cold (Herald-Sun) / Should our 30+ y.o. play beyond 2009?  (Read 3937 times)

Offline mightytiges

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Simmo is gawn. Sadly a shadow of his former self and now a liability in the side given he keeps going to ground far too often and far too easily in a contest.

Browny was one of our best on Saturday night and Plough has stood up for him in his EOTT report but with a new coach and tough calls needed to be made on the oldies he could be gawn in 4 months time as well.
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Offline Mr Magic

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If I was new coach I'd tap them all on the shoulder due to our list imbalances.

I'd rather have rookies on the list than vets at this point.

Thanks for your services but we are looking to the future.



Offline WilliamPowell

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I'd keep 3 of them -Richo, Cousins, Brown

The other 3 I'd let go

"Oh yes I am a dreamer, I still see us flying high!"

from the song "Don't Walk Away" by Pat Benatar 1988 (Wide Awake In Dreamland)

Offline Stripes

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I'd keep 3 of them -Richo, Cousins, Brown

The other 3 I'd let go

I would only keep Cousins and only if he plays out the rest of the season relatively injury free. Browny has slowed down and lost his evasive skills. He struggles on the lead now to shake his defender. As much as I love the guy, Richo has become a defensive liability with teams running off him where-ever he lines up.

Time for a fresh start

Stripes

Offline TigerTime

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cousins and brown must stay

the rest must all move on, sadly even richo

Offline WilliamPowell

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I would only keep Cousins and only if he plays out the rest of the season relatively injury free. Browny has slowed down and lost his evasive skills. He struggles on the lead now to shake his defender. As much as I love the guy, Richo has become a defensive liability with teams running off him where-ever he lines up.

Time for a fresh start

Stripes

there was nothing wrong Brown's evasive skills and leads in the first half against Essendon  ;D - it was like the Brown of old

IMHO Richo has earnt the right to go out on his terms and should be allowed to go on. Not a doubt in my mind if Rocho thought he was letting the Club down he would pull the pin

"Oh yes I am a dreamer, I still see us flying high!"

from the song "Don't Walk Away" by Pat Benatar 1988 (Wide Awake In Dreamland)

Offline Stripes

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there was nothing wrong Brown's evasive skills and leads in the first half against Essendon  ;D - it was like the Brown of old

IMHO Richo has earnt the right to go out on his terms and should be allowed to go on. Not a doubt in my mind if Rocho thought he was letting the Club down he would pull the pin

That says more about the way it was coming in, his opponent and Essendons focus on our other forwards than it does about Brown pace and evasiveness. Brown has lost the sidewards step he used to have and the spin he used to use to turn his opponents inside out. On the lead he used to put at least a few minutes on his defender before changing his lead direction and putting his opposition out of position. He has lost that element to his game now. His finishing skills are still excellent though his kicking penetration has reduced with age.

When you see Morton and Nahas on the lead compared to Brown the reduction is pace and 'zip' becomes blaringly obvious.

Richo will be at the mercy of the new coach regardless of his history to the club. I would like to see him go out on his own terms but players rarely know when they should finish. When the upside of not having Richo in the team becomes greater than the downside - he will be told either way. Let's just hope he keeps performing like last year because older players now are given little allowances for poor form or injuries.

Stripes

Offline mightytiges

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That says more about the way it was coming in, his opponent and Essendons focus on our other forwards than it does about Brown pace and evasiveness. Brown has lost the sidewards step he used to have and the spin he used to use to turn his opponents inside out. On the lead he used to put at least a few minutes on his defender before changing his lead direction and putting his opposition out of position. He has lost that element to his game now. His finishing skills are still excellent though his kicking penetration has reduced with age.

When you see Morton and Nahas on the lead compared to Brown the reduction is pace and 'zip' becomes blaringly obvious.
Yep age and that broken leg has conspired so that we have missed the best years of Browny  :(.
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Offline one-eyed

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Time to take blinkers off to 30-somethings: Lloyd (Age)
« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2009, 06:33:01 AM »
Time to take blinkers off to 30-somethings
Matthew Lloyd | May 31, 2009

IN THE early hours of Sunday morning, the adrenalin was still flowing following our win over Richmond in the Dreamtime at the 'G game. As is often the case after night games, I couldn't sleep so I got up and flicked on the TV.

It was near the end of the game and the commentators were discussing Richmond. Luke Darcy was asked for his view on Richmond's 30-somethings and suggested they should be cleaned out at the end of the season so the club could start afresh.

Luke has done a great job making the transition from football to media commentator. He is articulate, measured and honest and I think the wider football community appreciates the way he goes about it. As is the case with any media commentator, people will disagree with your opinion from time to time. This was one such occasion for me.

It's frustrating that once players turn the other side of 30, their card is very quickly marked when it comes to assessing their performance. We — and yes, I am over 30 — seem to get pigeon-holed as a group. Your birth certificate seems to dictate worth more than the job you're doing on-field.

Putting together a list is a very difficult task. Broadly, players fall into three categories. You have the young kids (22 and under), the middle tier (23-29) and the experience (30-plus). Finding the balance is critical to the success of your team.

Youth is seen as the future, the middle tier is the present and, too often, the experienced group the past — but I think they have a very important role to play in the here and now and that role can be missed or significantly under-estimated.

When Alastair Clarkson took over the Hawks' coaching job, he made the hard calls on Nick Holland, Peter Everitt, Nathan Thompson, Jonathan Hay and Mark Graham as, in his opinion, they would not be part of their next premiership. I have no doubt that at the time, Shane Crawford would have been asking himself, 'Where does that leave me?'

Four years on, Clarkson recruited Brent Guerra and Stuart Dew to top up what was a young side that lacked some hard bodies and experience. Both also have great foot skills, particularly Dew. It doesn't mean that the initial decision was wrong, but I do believe it was recognition that 30-somethings have an important role to play.

In my opinion, list management over the past five years at the Hawthorn Football Club won it a premiership. There are no hard and fast rules on player ages or limitations, Clarkson and Chris Pelchen made decisions on what was best for the club at the time and the direction in which it was heading.

Getting back to the Tigers, they have some very important decisions to make in the coming months. Younger players need a mix of people around them and that includes the 30-somethings. There is no doubt some of the players Luke spoke about would, in their own mind, feel their time is up, while others — in particular Matthew Richardson who was runner-up in the Brownlow Medal last year — still have something to offer. "Richo" deserves to be treated with the utmost respect as he is the heartbeat of the Richmond Football Club.

Careers can be jeopardised by putting players in too early, so I think the all-or-nothing approach is fraught with danger. You can damage a player's confidence so much that the critical self-belief required goes out the window. Zac Dawson may be a case in point. I don't know the Saints' Zac, but I imagine he would have had some very difficult times in the early part of his career at Hawthorn. It is great to see him come through it — but some don't.

The other danger is to their bodies. You can break young players down if you push them too hard, too early. You have to make hard decisions on players, but you still need to make sensible ones.

Leadership is another important issue in my mind that I think on and off-field can go hand-in-hand in many ways. As we know, football and footballers are being increasingly put under the microscope. It creates significant pressure, particularly for a young player coming into the game. You need a sound leadership group to nurture players during this difficult period. Thirty-somethings have plenty to add in this respect and, ultimately if you get this right, you have a far better chance of achieving premiership success.

I sat back last Friday night and watched in admiration the performances of Jason Akermanis and Brad Johnson. They willed the Bulldogs back into the game with four goals apiece; they are both into their 30s but are still game-breakers. It baffles me to see a player in Akermanis' form questioning whether he can go on. If he were 25, there would be no doubt whatsoever.

Geelong, St Kilda, the Western Bulldogs and Hawthorn have built lists that have them as the teams favoured to win this year's premiership. They have the perfect blend of youth and experience. This is what it takes to win a flag, but it does take time, a commitment to development, the right decisions at the draft table and the right decision on your older players.

I have been told by a number of people that "the game doesn't know how old you are". The great game might not, but some coaches, journalists and supporters seem to remind you every day.

EXPERIENCE COUNTS

ADELAIDE 4 — Brett Burton, Tyson Edwards, Simon Goodwin, Andrew McLeod

BRISBANE LIONS 3 — Simon Black, Daniel Bradshaw, Tim Notting

CARLTON  — None

COLLINGWOOD 3 — Shane O'Bree, Simon Prestigiacomo, Anthony Rocca

ESSENDON 3 — Dustin Fletcher, Matthew Lloyd, Scott Lucas

FREMANTLE  — None

GEELONG 2 — Tom Harley, Darren Milburn

HAWTHORN  — None

MELBOURNE 2 — James McDonald, Russell Robertson

NORTH MELBOURNE 2 — Brent Harvey, Adam Simpson

PORT ADELAIDE 4 — Dean Brogan, Peter Burgoyne, Brendon Lade, Warren Tredrea

RICHMOND 6 — Joel Bowden, Nathan Brown, Ben Cousins, Kane Johnson, Matthew Richardson, Troy Simmonds

ST KILDA 2 — Max Hudghton, Steven King

SYDNEY 5 — Leo Barry, Jared Crouch, Barry Hall, Brett Kirk, Michael O'Loughlin

WEST COAST  — None

WESTERN BULLDOGS 5 — Jason Akermanis, Nathan Eagleton, Ben Hudson, Brad Johnson, Scott Welsh

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/rfnews/the-30somethings/2009/05/30/1243456785929.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

Offline Stripes

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You you compare the number of older players we have with the number and quality of the older players in the other side you can see our problem. The other teams have 2/3 older players on average but the quality and talent of those players compared to ours is the biggest difference.

Johnson, Simmonds, Bowden and Brown do not compare with players such as McLeod, Aka, Fletcher, Lloyd, Harley, Harvey, Black, Bradshaw, etc. The older players from the other teams are better than most of the compeition in general whereas most of our older players struggle to be better than most of our list.

Probably the only 30+ year old players who still remain better than most of our list and competition in general is Richo and Cousins.

Stripes

Offline mightytiges

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We've been forced in a way to hold onto so many of our older players for longer because the next age bracket which should be the main core of the team is simply non-existent. We are still paying for the recruiting mistakes of 6-10 years ago. If we had around 20 quality players aged between 23-29 then there'd be arguably only Richo 30+ still on our list. Gas and Chubba went a season or two longer than they should have and now it's Sugar, Browny, Joel and Simmo. Only Richo has been playing at an elite level (2nd in the Brownlow 2008).
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Offline Judge Roughneck

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Pettifer, Simmonds, Bowden did not do enough to keep spots in the side.


Offline Infamy

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Pettifer, Simmonds, Bowden did not do enough to keep spots in the side.
Pettifer is clearly tarnished with a scarlet letter or something
He's returned from a knee reco in under 12 months better than most players in the history of AFL
You have to give him credit for the hard work he's done to get back, he was not in the worst 5 players on the night, not even close