We need to fine-tune: Wallace

[Judge Roughneck]

McGaune Thursfeild JON
Connors Rance Casserly
Polo Cotchin Morton
Edwards Hughes Collard
Meyer Riewoldt Gourdis
Pattison Deledio Tambling

White Putt Collins Graham

The younger 1/2 of our list gives abit more hope. Deledio/Cotchin/Tambling/Morton/Polo/Connors/Edwards should develop into what every team needs, a 10-12 player future midfeild unit.

Wallace/Miller have been critized for lack of talls, but that 'future spine' is made up mostly of first round draft picks from the last 4 drafts; Reiwoldt (#13), Rance (#18), Hughes (#24 - expected to go higher), Pattison (#20), Thusty who was a bit of a steal. What we really lack is a stand out young tall (top 5 KPP type). ie. Gumbleton/Franklin/Kruzer. This is due to overachiving 05/06.

[blx]

i think we all agree wholeheartedly about the mcmahon deal but two points id like to make...

1. i think its fair that we dont assassinate mcmahon as it not his fault, its millers and millers entirely. personally attacking mcmahon imo is not right.

2. can we now move on from mcmahongate and not raise it every second topic thats comes up on these boards. we've already lots to be depressed about than to keep harping on and on about this.

 

[Tigermonk]

because the new kid on the block aint read any previous threads & is about to embark us all on some misery 

[mightytiges]

MT you always fall back on the fact we are & dont chuck them to the wolves
when infact all other clubs play there youngsters & they handle the AFL just look at some youngsters who thrived in the NAB series
notice none of them were Tiger players 
a youngster tagged Goodwin in tonights GF
stop with your youth policy turnover rubbish cause its not the case at Richmond
we been rebuilding for years & years just we got the wrong people rebuilding us
Richmond is struggling from bad coaches & bad choices plain simple fact
l think that you turning up to training all the time makes you beleive these tigertales that your always trying to protect them with your age & draft turnover & the not ready for senior football posts
l can tell you from my work within the afl that these youngsters are better trained than you think & ready to take it on & most played senior footy at a young age & against tougher men thats why they get picked to train & play for the U18 comp to be drafted & some spending 2 years within the ranks
l'm tired of poor excuses from supporters & the spin from Tigerland its too much
l'm not sitting here for another year going over & over the same spin l had enough Richmond are just plain pooh l rather spend my time watching good games

TM if you believe the gap between TAC Cup and AFL is not massive then with all due respect seriously you're kidding yourself and btw I've seen the highest standard junior footy since I was a young kid going to watch U19 games each week (my Dad was timekeeper). If you watched the U18 champs last year the gap was frightening  .

If you believe we've been rebuilding and rebuilding for years then you haven't been following our recruiting too closely since 1980. Before the 2004 draft we only rebuilt with youth once way back under KB and that was continued by Northey where we also got lucky with Fitzroy giving away Brodders and Mick Gale. The rest of the time especially post-95 was spent trading away good picks for ready-made duds or drafting them anyway deluding ourselves we weren't far away.

As for a young St Kilda side last night, just 5 Saints out of the 26 who played were under 23 y.o. .
36: Harvey
29: King
28: Hayes, M.Gardiner, Milne
27: Baker, Blake
26: Fiora
25; Riewoldt, Birss, Koschitzke, S. Fisher, C.Gardiner
24: X.Clarke, Montagna, Dal Santo, Jones
23: Gram, L.Fisher, Schneider, Ball  (all turn 24 by April/May)
22: R.Clarke
21: Gilbert
20: Allen
19: Armitage, Geary

[mightytiges]

Fantastic post and I totally agree.
Watch some great kids in the pre season games this year perform well, havent seen any at our club.
The age theory is complete rubbish and just another lame excuse.
Tell you something MT, come and watch a few games with me this year and I will point a few things out to you.
Richmonds problem is that we are extremely poorly coached and have and still are recruiting poorly, we dont develop players when they are at the club which further esculates the problems we have.
And might also say that some of the kids we have arent much good either. These kids have been picked up in the past 2-3 years under the Wallace reign

I know my footy thanks very much. I don't need a school lesson  . I also know to take preseason form with a grain of salt.

I also know that the reason you draft a lot of kids is because about half on average don't make it. The problem in the past has been Richmond recruited just a few kids and threw all their eggs in one basket somehow miraculously expecting every one of them to make it. It doesn't work that way and it's the reason we have a massive hole in our list and we still require oldies Richo, Bowden, Johnson and Tivs  instead of what should be a large mid-20s core which doesn't exist at Punt Rd.

Amusing seeing our own supporters exhalting the one-game wonder preseason/practice games of other club youngsters while bagging our own who have done far more at the same age and are required to carry more of the workload in the real stuff thanks to a crap senior core or what's left of it.

The other amusing thing is because I and others see us as a young inexperienced side who won't make a real impact for another 2-3 years and hence Plough mostly likely will be gone in 18 months time anyway we get called Wallace lovers who need a lesson in footy strategy. One minute it's the kids we recruit are all no good and the next it's soley the coach's fault. I know it's frustrating being told to wait longer after already waiting a quarter of a century thanks to the club's own ineptness but please!    

[yellowandback]

I have made the point several times over - the Richmond that we see today basically started as a new club in 2004.  That was the 1st draft in many years where we drafted more than 4 under 18 aged players:-

1996 - 3 under agers
1997 - 3
1998 - 3
1999 - 5 but a poor draft for RFC forever known as Pavlichgate
2000 - 5 - 4 still on our list, Petts, Newman Hyde and Coggie, 3 good gets
2001 - 2
2002 - 2 with 1 of those de-listed after a year
2003 - 6 with 2 left
2004 - 7 with 6 left and 4 or 5 good gets, potentially a great draft like 2000 AND 2 great rookies
2005 - 3
2006 - 5 with 1 de-listed after a year
2007 - 3? with a priority pick traded

We need 4-6 picks EVERY year,

1996 - 2
1997 - 6 picked up Scarlett
1998 - 3 picking up Tom Harley in a trade
1999 - 7 picking up Corey, Chapman, Ling and Enright traded for Mooney
2000 - 3
2001 - 7 picking up Ablett, Johnstons (David and Steve), Kelly
2002 - 3
2003 - 4
2004 - 3
2005 - 5
2006 - 4
2007 - 4

23 picks to Tigers from 96-02 and Cats 31.  MMMM, see the link?

They generally trade once per year and with the exception of Otto have not completed any massive trades.

We need to draft at least 1-2 more players each year, when we do that it actually freakin works. 

Player development IS another matter, if we don't get big years from Thursfield, Lids, Tambo, Patto, Polo and possibly McGuane then I'll be off the coaching wagon.

If we do get decent years from that group, guess what?

We'll win a few games and if that does happen hopefully the pre-season experts will shut the FXXX UP!!! (Especially the blue boys)

[Smokey]

I know my footy thanks very much. I don't need a school lesson  . I also know to take preseason form with a grain of salt.

I also know that the reason you draft a lot of kids is because about half on average don't make it. The problem in the past has been Richmond recruited just a few kids and threw all their eggs in one basket somehow miraculously expecting every one of them to make it. It doesn't work that way and it's the reason we have a massive hole in our list and we still require oldies Richo, Bowden, Johnson and Tivs  instead of what should be a large mid-20s core which doesn't exist at Punt Rd.

Amusing seeing our own supporters exhalting the one-game wonder preseason/practice games of other club youngsters while bagging our own who have done far more at the same age and are required to carry more of the workload in the real stuff thanks to a crap senior core or what's left of it.

The other amusing thing is because I and others see us as a young inexperienced side who won't make a real impact for another 2-3 years and hence Plough mostly likely will be gone in 18 months time anyway we get called Wallace lovers who need a lesson in footy strategy. One minute it's the kids we recruit are all no good and the next it's soley the coach's fault. I know it's frustrating being told to wait longer after already waiting a quarter of a century thanks to the club's own ineptness but please!    

[Tigermonk]

  

[mightytiges]

I have made the point several times over - the Richmond that we see today basically started as a new club in 2004.  That was the 1st draft in many years where we drafted more than 4 under 18 aged players:-

1996 - 3 under agers
1997 - 3
1998 - 3
1999 - 5 but a poor draft for RFC forever known as Pavlichgate
2000 - 5 - 4 still on our list, Petts, Newman Hyde and Coggie, 3 good gets
2001 - 2
2002 - 2 with 1 of those de-listed after a year
2003 - 6 with 2 left
2004 - 7 with 6 left and 4 or 5 good gets, potentially a great draft like 2000 AND 2 great rookies
2005 - 3
2006 - 5 with 1 de-listed after a year
2007 - 3? with a priority pick traded

We need 4-6 picks EVERY year,

1996 - 2
1997 - 6 picked up Scarlett
1998 - 3 picking up Tom Harley in a trade
1999 - 7 picking up Corey, Chapman, Ling and Enright traded for Mooney
2000 - 3
2001 - 7 picking up Ablett, Johnstons (David and Steve), Kelly
2002 - 3
2003 - 4
2004 - 3
2005 - 5
2006 - 4
2007 - 4

23 picks to Tigers from 96-02 and Cats 31.  MMMM, see the link?

They generally trade once per year and with the exception of Otto have not completed any massive trades.

We need to draft at least 1-2 more players each year, when we do that it actually freakin works. 

Player development IS another matter, if we don't get big years from Thursfield, Lids, Tambo, Patto, Polo and possibly McGuane then I'll be off the coaching wagon.

If we do get decent years from that group, guess what?

We'll win a few games and if that does happen hopefully the pre-season experts will shut the FXXX UP!!! (Especially the blue boys)

Geelong also gained a huge advantage via their many father-sons for just 3rd round picks.

Apart from 2000, the 1997-2002 drafts were absolute disasters for us. Few kids picked up and often late in the draft after trading away our early picks. It says it all that we only picked up 2 kids in the 2001 superdraft compared to Geelong's 7 and our earliest pick was Rodan at 33.

[Little Jackie]

Fantastic post and I totally agree.
Watch some great kids in the pre season games this year perform well, havent seen any at our club.
The age theory is complete rubbish and just another lame excuse.
Tell you something MT, come and watch a few games with me this year and I will point a few things out to you.
Richmonds problem is that we are extremely poorly coached and have and still are recruiting poorly, we dont develop players when they are at the club which further esculates the problems we have.
And might also say that some of the kids we have arent much good either. These kids have been picked up in the past 2-3 years under the Wallace reign

I know my footy thanks very much. I don't need a school lesson  . I also know to take preseason form with a grain of salt.

I also know that the reason you draft a lot of kids is because about half on average don't make it. The problem in the past has been Richmond recruited just a few kids and threw all their eggs in one basket somehow miraculously expecting every one of them to make it. It doesn't work that way and it's the reason we have a massive hole in our list and we still require oldies Richo, Bowden, Johnson and Tivs  instead of what should be a large mid-20s core which doesn't exist at Punt Rd.

Amusing seeing our own supporters exhalting the one-game wonder preseason/practice games of other club youngsters while bagging our own who have done far more at the same age and are required to carry more of the workload in the real stuff thanks to a crap senior core or what's left of it.

The other amusing thing is because I and others see us as a young inexperienced side who won't make a real impact for another 2-3 years and hence Plough mostly likely will be gone in 18 months time anyway we get called Wallace lovers who need a lesson in footy strategy. One minute it's the kids we recruit are all no good and the next it's soley the coach's fault. I know it's frustrating being told to wait longer after already waiting a quarter of a century thanks to the club's own ineptness but please!    

Whats amusing is that OUR best young player has been playing at Coburg.
- EDWARDS!
The rest will have little or no impact at the RFC . If you think the likes of JON and others will make an impact, you are all deluded.
Lets dont mention Peterson.
Riedwoldt is no certainty to make it either.
So thats one player out of the 2006 National Draft who shows something, the rest including Connors and Collins, the jury is out. Matty White as well.
And how many times ar the going to keep rooking Cam Howat?
Surely the must know about him now.

As for pre-season form, its funny actually laughable that Richmond supporters ""fobb off"" its only pre-season form, cause you know what, we cant win anything. Facts are everytime they ran out to play they actually try and win. Can tell you they were peeed right off against losing to the saints

And I might add,hindsight is a great thing but why didnt they pick up or look at Steven King and or Charlie Gardiner like the saints did,? They would have been better off going and getting them than having some of the rubbish they kept on the list. Can tell you that both will play most games at the saints and release the pressure of Reidwoldt and Kozi

And if they did pick them up, it will solve your age and experience issue
Kings last 5 games have resulted in 3 premierships

[Little Jackie]

Fantastic post and I totally agree.
Watch some great kids in the pre season games this year perform well, havent seen any at our club.
The age theory is complete rubbish and just another lame excuse.
Tell you something MT, come and watch a few games with me this year and I will point a few things out to you.
Richmonds problem is that we are extremely poorly coached and have and still are recruiting poorly, we dont develop players when they are at the club which further esculates the problems we have.
And might also say that some of the kids we have arent much good either. These kids have been picked up in the past 2-3 years under the Wallace reign

I know my footy thanks very much. I don't need a school lesson  . I also know to take preseason form with a grain of salt.

I also know that the reason you draft a lot of kids is because about half on average don't make it. The problem in the past has been Richmond recruited just a few kids and threw all their eggs in one basket somehow miraculously expecting every one of them to make it. It doesn't work that way and it's the reason we have a massive hole in our list and we still require oldies Richo, Bowden, Johnson and Tivs  instead of what should be a large mid-20s core which doesn't exist at Punt Rd.

Amusing seeing our own supporters exhalting the one-game wonder preseason/practice games of other club youngsters while bagging our own who have done far more at the same age and are required to carry more of the workload in the real stuff thanks to a crap senior core or what's left of it.

The other amusing thing is because I and others see us as a young inexperienced side who won't make a real impact for another 2-3 years and hence Plough mostly likely will be gone in 18 months time anyway we get called Wallace lovers who need a lesson in footy strategy. One minute it's the kids we recruit are all no good and the next it's soley the coach's fault. I know it's frustrating being told to wait longer after already waiting a quarter of a century thanks to the club's own ineptness but please!    

At least other clubs produce kids that CAN play and show something.
Shane Edwards looks a terrific player in the making. Where has he been playing ? You tell me!
As for your mate Plough, you wont have to wait 18 months, more likely 18 weeks 
Whats frustrating is that we havent shown ANY signs of improvement and if Plough thinks that guys like Jay Schulz and that other weed from the Dogs are the future, well he has rocks in his head and he will die by his own decisions.
The team lacks mongrel, plays with little aggression.
You know something else, teams used to fear playing the RFC back in the 70,s thesedays, they know more than likely than not that the tiges will"' roll over "" by half time. Fact!

[Moi]

I know my footy thanks very much. I don't need a school lesson  .

If you do need any lessons MT you know where to come, just send me a PM.
Err I did my thesis on Collo so anything at all, just ask, would be my pleasure

 

 

[mightytiges]

I know my footy thanks very much. I don't need a school lesson  .

If you do need any lessons MT you know where to come, just send me a PM.
Err I did my thesis on Collo so anything at all, just ask, would be my pleasure

 

 

Hey Moi, you taught Collo everything he knows 

[yellowandback]

 

 

[HKTiger]

Jackstar,

I normally refrain from
a) reading your posts, and
b) responding,

but hey, it's Sunday morning the Force just got knocked off and I'm a little steamed up.

But your last two posts are just plain rubbish.  MT posts lists, comparative ages etc. and you come out with sweeping statements and no fact.  You exhibit no knowledge about football, building something and developing people.

If other clubs are so good at developing kids and so many of them.  Name them.  Hiding behind a statment "at least other clubs produce kids that CAN play"  is just so much BS.  Name them.

If anything that is the one thing that has improved out of sight since TW came to the RFC we are developing footballers.

A quick list would be:
- Luke McGuane,
- Daniel Jackson,
- Adam Pattison,
- Dean Polo,
- Will Thursfield,
- Nathan Foley

Marginal:
- Kel Moore

I've left out the first rounders as they're expected to make the grade.  That's just a quick list of players that have improved, "developed" at the Tiges.  And I'd take all of them ahead of any other clubs players.  (And yes that's an emotive statement not a logical one, but that's what being a fan is about.)

yeah, some haven't kicked on, some will take an extra year or two, Casserley, JON etc.  That's called development.  It's how it works and all clubs do it.