One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: one-eyed on March 06, 2010, 05:29:48 AM
-
Terry Wallace never had a chance
* Mike Sheahan
* Herald Sun
* March 06, 2010
REGARDED as an abject failure at Richmond, Terry Wallace was really the victim of penny-pinching and disunity, reveals the key behind-the-scenes figure of that bleak era.
TERRY Wallace and his failed five-year rescue plan for Richmond were doomed from the outset, the man behind the operation, Greg Miller, said this week.
Miller, the club's director of football for the bulk of the bleak Wallace era, blamed a chronic lack of resources in the early years and fractured unity within the administration for the spectacular failure.
"From year one, the biggest concern was (that) the board - and I was part of that board - made a decision not to finance the football division, and that was a mistake," Miller said.
"We were under-resourced in recruiting and under-resourced in development. Completely.
"We had to pull our head in (as a club), but the footy division suffered and, in the end, so did Terry's reputation. That was the unfortunate by-product of the decision to get the club back on its feet financially.
"If you think back to Terry's first year (2005), we had a $26,000 recruiting budget, no full-time recruiting staff and no development officers."
In terms of dollars and manpower, the Balwyn Tigers were far better-equipped than the AFL Tigers.
"That's a far cry from what the board has put in place for (new coach) Damien Hardwick, which is the right way to go," Miller said.
He also said Wallace was denied the level of support he needed and deserved.
"I never felt that Terry enjoyed the total support he needed to be a successful coach.
"Punt Rd, it's a unique place. I met some great people there and I certainly wish them the best.
"I certainly wish Damien Hardwick and (chief executive) Brendon Gale the opportunity that they can develop, with (president) Gary March and (director of football) Craig Cameron, a real force together, that they protect each other.
"I hope they can do it but there's a lot of outside influences at Punt Rd that make that difficult. Just people who want to have their say, ex-players, others. I didn't see that at the Kangaroos or at the Swans (where Miller worked previously).
"Let me say one thing about Richmond. I met some great people, but don't tell me that Terry Wallace, Danny Frawley, you can go right back to Kevin Bartlett, don't tell me they all can't coach. It's not the coach.
"It's the environment down there that needs all the people at the top to bind together and to become the impregnable force that Geelong has shown with the (Brian) Cooks and the (Frank) Costas and Neil Balme.
"That's what it needs to create and I hope it can achieve that.
"No, it wasn't as simple as lack of money. It's probably a lack of unity between the big four at a footy club - president, CEO, director of football and coach. I just reckon one of the key elements of success is that impregnable force you (can) create by looking after each other. I don't think that was there.
"If you're not confident in yourself, you start protecting yourself and by protecting yourself, you're not protecting each other. It's a survival thing.
"The Brendon Gale, Damien Hardwick, Craig Cameron, Gary March cartel has got to work. I don't know the dynamics of that group, just hope it can be strong. It needs to be strong."
Miller, 56 and refreshed after a 12-month, 35,000km road tour of Australia with his family, bears no malice towards March, who moved both him and Wallace on in yet more Richmond blood-letting.
Yet, it's apparent he preferred the management style of the late Ron Casey, president at North Melbourne when Miller was chief executive during the highly successful 1990s.
"At the Kangaroos, we were blessed with a real camaraderie at the top with people like Ron Casey and Bob Ansett, and good people round you like Denis Pagan and Mark Dawson and Geoff Walsh," Miller said.
"We looked after each other and that's vital to everyone's peace of mind, to each other's sanity.
"Ron would come in every day and ask, `What can I do for you, pal?'. That was the president's opening line, and I always knew he was in my corner, and that was comforting.
"There's no doubt I took on too many things (at Richmond). I probably did a lot of things OK, but I'll be the first to say I wasn't the best footy director.
"I certainly got involved in a lot of areas - coteries, 'selling' the football club, (VFL affiliate) Coburg, staff morale, too many things outside my most important role - running the football division.
"In my footy career, I was a pretty ordinary player (52 games with South Melbourne). I reckon I was a very good recruiter (Swans and North Melbourne), I reckon I was a pretty good general manager because people got behind me, but I don't reckon I'm a great footy director.
"So as a player and a footy director, I'm probably not at the top of the tree."
That's why Miller is relishing a return to the role of talent identification, back at the wheel scouring country Victoria for the most promising teenagers. This time for a management company, Flying Start.
Miller is staunchly defensive of Wallace. Admittedly, he has a vested interest as the man who appointed him, but says the coach was poorly resourced and mishandled up to, and including, his mid-season sacking last year.
"I thought it (the sacking) was bad for the footy club. It was a disappointing view of Richmond again, which I didn't like. I thought everyone had worked hard to try and change that image," he said.
"I knew going into 2009 Terry was in a no-win situation, given the board didn't want to extend his contract."
After a disastrous Round 1 loss, it was only a matter of time.
Miller's career at Richmond also took its toll with a heart attack in 2007. Stress and a weight problem (he was 102kg at the time) might have killed him, but he is renewed - and 17kg lighter.
"The fundamental lesson (from his 12 months away) is that what really matters is the love and warmth of your family," he said.
"(In football) you can spend your whole time trying to be everything to all people.
"I don't have any regrets about it, I feel good about myself and I met some really good people at Richmond, and I wish them well."
Like so many well-intentioned plans of the past 25 years, it just didn't work out.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/terry-wallace-never-had-a-chance/story-e6frf9jf-1225837573555
-
ahhhhhhhhhhhh grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
No mention of the $600,000 a year that Terry earnt.
Not mention of the staff he burnt along the way.
Good people like Steve Alessio , Dave Wheadon he drove out of the place, just to have himself surrounded byfriends, eg Monhurst, Wayne Johnstone, Gordon Casey , Paul Armstrong, , I could go on and on.
And dont get me started about Miller either :banghead :banghead
-
Not mention of the staff he burnt along the way.
Good people like Steve Alessio , Dave Wheadon he drove out of the place, just to have himself surrounded byfriends, eg Monhurst, Wayne Johnstone, Gordon Casey , Paul Armstrong, , I could go on and on.
You forgot Wallace got rid of you as well
Oooops - oh sorry, you were talking about good people :wallywink
Good article and he's a nice man
If that's how he saw it, and hard to know where he got it wrong because it all sounds pretty plausible to me, then good on him for having a say
No doubt people will just say it's sour grapes
Maybe an element of both sour grapes and truthfulness
Good timing as well, so the president and everyone else can pull their heads in and give each other unconditional support at the beginning of a new era :thumbsup
-
What a load of self-serving rubbish! While disunity and penny-pinching have unfortunately long been a part of Richmond, Miller and Wallace should at least have the guts to put their own hands up for the mess they created in their time at the club.
Even a recruiting dept. run by monkeys could have recognized that Wallace and Miller's infatuation with scrawny, undersized sprinters with zero football skill and nous was doomed to failure.
I know many supporters,myself included,who used to literally BEG Wallace and Miller to recruit ruckmen and key position players. But by the patronizing "we know best" responses we got, it was obvious that we may as well have shared our concerns with a brick wall.
To have 5 picks in the top 20 in 2004, and muck up almost every single one of them is an indictment on the reputation of the man who delivered Carey to North. It can be argued that the following year's draft was an even bigger stuff-up, if that's possible.
MT and I know a diehard fan who has suggested light-heartedly (?) that Miller was an enemy agent, planted to destroy the organization from within. While neither of us subscribe to such paranoid conspiracy theories, when you add up the litany of mistakes he made not just in recruiting, but in handing out lengthy contracts to proven duds, you can see what she means.
-
miller a nice man lol, he is a snake and can slither with wallace
wallace had plenty of time, too much time to be honest
he was a total failure, was not hands on enough and his game plan changed every 2 weeks
its easy for miller to write this crap and potect the only person to ever please him on their knees
we are much better without these two tools
spoke to benny gale and hardwick yesterday, we are in good hands finally
-
What a load of self-serving rubbish! While disunity and penny-pinching have unfortunately long been a part of Richmond, Miller and Wallace should at least have the guts to put their own hands up for the mess they created in their time at the club.
Even a recruiting dept. run by monkeys could have recognized that Wallace and Miller's infatuation with scrawny, undersized sprinters with zero football skill and nous was doomed to failure.
I know many supporters,myself included,who used to literally BEG Wallace and Miller to recruit ruckmen and key position players. But by the patronizing "we know best" responses we got, it was obvious that we may as well have shared our concerns with a brick wall.
To have 5 picks in the top 20 in 2004, and muck up almost every single one of them is an indictment on the reputation of the man who delivered Carey to North. It can be argued that the following year's draft was an even bigger stuff-up, if that's possible.
MT and I know a diehard fan who has suggested light-heartedly (?) that Miller was an enemy agent, planted to destroy the organization from within. While neither of us subscribe to such paranoid conspiracy theories, when you add up the litany of mistakes he made not just in recruiting, but in handing out lengthy contracts to proven duds, you can see what she means.
Hey, someone at the club appointed Miller, when do they put their hands up?
Put him on the board as well FFS
When do people around here stop finger pointing and move on?
-
What a load of self-serving rubbish! While disunity and penny-pinching have unfortunately long been a part of Richmond, Miller and Wallace should at least have the guts to put their own hands up for the mess they created in their time at the club.
Even a recruiting dept. run by monkeys could have recognized that Wallace and Miller's infatuation with scrawny, undersized sprinters with zero football skill and nous was doomed to failure.
I know many supporters,myself included,who used to literally BEG Wallace and Miller to recruit ruckmen and key position players. But by the patronizing "we know best" responses we got, it was obvious that we may as well have shared our concerns with a brick wall.
To have 5 picks in the top 20 in 2004, and muck up almost every single one of them is an indictment on the reputation of the man who delivered Carey to North. It can be argued that the following year's draft was an even bigger stuff-up, if that's possible.
MT and I know a diehard fan who has suggested light-heartedly (?) that Miller was an enemy agent, planted to destroy the organization from within. While neither of us subscribe to such paranoid conspiracy theories, when you add up the litany of mistakes he made not just in recruiting, but in handing out lengthy contracts to proven duds, you can see what she means.
she is right!!!
-
What a load of self-serving rubbish! While disunity and penny-pinching have unfortunately long been a part of Richmond, Miller and Wallace should at least have the guts to put their own hands up for the mess they created in their time at the club.
Even a recruiting dept. run by monkeys could have recognized that Wallace and Miller's infatuation with scrawny, undersized sprinters with zero football skill and nous was doomed to failure.
I know many supporters,myself included,who used to literally BEG Wallace and Miller to recruit ruckmen and key position players. But by the patronizing "we know best" responses we got, it was obvious that we may as well have shared our concerns with a brick wall.
To have 5 picks in the top 20 in 2004, and muck up almost every single one of them is an indictment on the reputation of the man who delivered Carey to North. It can be argued that the following year's draft was an even bigger stuff-up, if that's possible.
MT and I know a diehard fan who has suggested light-heartedly (?) that Miller was an enemy agent, planted to destroy the organization from within. While neither of us subscribe to such paranoid conspiracy theories, when you add up the litany of mistakes he made not just in recruiting, but in handing out lengthy contracts to proven duds, you can see what she means.
Hey, someone at the club appointed Miller, when do they put their hands up?
Put him on the board as well FFS
When do people around here stop finger pointing and move on?
when they are both dead or admit they are fuckups
-
when they are both dead or admit they are effups
Then enjoy your ulcers lol :thumbsup :rollin
-
What a load of self-serving rubbish! While disunity and penny-pinching have unfortunately long been a part of Richmond, Miller and Wallace should at least have the guts to put their own hands up for the mess they created in their time at the club.
Even a recruiting dept. run by monkeys could have recognized that Wallace and Miller's infatuation with scrawny, undersized sprinters with zero football skill and nous was doomed to failure.
well said RR, that plan was no-one elses, time for a little accountability...why would Miller overlook the likes of Mitch Clark in favour of JON...I have nothing personally against either of them, but the truth is neither were much good at anything but the blame game :shh
-
Whats a funny about all this is the fail to tell the truth.
Miller was in charge of recruiting and he searched the country side for talent.
He was assisted by no fewer than 13 people across Australia.
FACT
They made decisions and recruited the wrong players, they should put there hand and say, we didnt do our job, instead of the media trying to paint the good picture of Wallace and Miller.
The RFC had access to ALL under 18 tapes and were at NO disadvantage to other clubs, they just picked the wrong players.
There recruiters in other states went to games and reported back .
Money doesnt make success, hard work and correct decisions do
-
What a load of self-serving rubbish! While disunity and penny-pinching have unfortunately long been a part of Richmond, Miller and Wallace should at least have the guts to put their own hands up for the mess they created in their time at the club.
Even a recruiting dept. run by monkeys could have recognized that Wallace and Miller's infatuation with scrawny, undersized sprinters with zero football skill and nous was doomed to failure.
I know many supporters,myself included,who used to literally BEG Wallace and Miller to recruit ruckmen and key position players. But by the patronizing "we know best" responses we got, it was obvious that we may as well have shared our concerns with a brick wall.
To have 5 picks in the top 20 in 2004, and muck up almost every single one of them is an indictment on the reputation of the man who delivered Carey to North. It can be argued that the following year's draft was an even bigger stuff-up, if that's possible.
MT and I know a diehard fan who has suggested light-heartedly (?) that Miller was an enemy agent, planted to destroy the organization from within. While neither of us subscribe to such paranoid conspiracy theories, when you add up the litany of mistakes he made not just in recruiting, but in handing out lengthy contracts to proven duds, you can see what she means.
Hey, someone at the club appointed Miller, when do they put their hands up?
Put him on the board as well FFS
When do people around here stop finger pointing and move on?
Hey, I have forgotten it and moved on. I'm absolutely happy with Benny Gale, Hardwick, and our new recruits. It's just when these old ghosts pop out of the woodwork with their revisionism, and their excuses that I feel compelled to reply. Particularly when the Herald-Scum salivates at the opportunity to once again trundle out the old "Tigers eat their own" clich'e for the thousandth time.
-
There are always 2 sides to a story and wallace/Miler are very responsibe for their actions in my mind, nobody should deny this, but all bias aside, that's a good article. Unfortunately the truth hurts for some supporters
-
Not mention of the staff he burnt along the way.
Good people like Steve Alessio , Dave Wheadon he drove out of the place, just to have himself surrounded byfriends, eg Monhurst, Wayne Johnstone, Gordon Casey , Paul Armstrong, , I could go on and on.
You forgot Wallace got rid of you as well
Oooops - oh sorry, you were talking about good people :wallywink
Good article and he's a nice man
If that's how he saw it, and hard to know where he got it wrong because it all sounds pretty plausible to me, then good on him for having a say
No doubt people will just say it's sour grapes
Maybe an element of both sour grapes and truthfulness
Good timing as well, so the president and everyone else can pull their heads in and give each other unconditional support at the beginning of a new era :thumbsup
Dont let the truth get in the way of a good story there.
I left over $$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Nothing more , nothing less.
Not going to spend 20 hours a week and only get half paid from previous years. WTF
While Wallace reaps $600,000
On this matter, and interesting point is that most coaches put aside money from there own pocket to employ the staff they want.
Eg Runners are poorly paid or not paid, the coach for example would give them $5000 for the year. say $200 a week to pay for there time and expenses
Its happens and most clubs ;)
-
There are always 2 sides to a story and wallace/Miler are very responsibe for their actions in my mind, nobody should deny this, but all bias aside, that's a good article. Unfortunately the truth hurts for some supporters
/quote]
Or a highly distorted version of the truth
-
There are always 2 sides to a story and wallace/Miler are very responsibe for their actions in my mind, nobody should deny this, but all bias aside, that's a good article. Unfortunately the truth hurts for some supporters
Or a highly distorted version of the truth
rubbish,
what was distorted?
the truth about being under resourced? or the truth about influential outside factions? like i said some supporters are blindly defensive of the club, probably why the club is able to get away with the rubbish of the past 28 years yea after year. Whatever u think of miller (and believe me i don't think much of him) a lot f that was spot on.
Here's a tip and bookmark it. In 3 years if this hasn't been sorted, and there is still knifing in the back going on then hardwick will be moved on bc a fractured club is never successful, but i guess supporters like u will be saying another crap coach right? :)
-
Not mention of the staff he burnt along the way.
Good people like Steve Alessio , Dave Wheadon he drove out of the place, just to have himself surrounded byfriends, eg Monhurst, Wayne Johnstone, Gordon Casey , Paul Armstrong, , I could go on and on.
You forgot Wallace got rid of you as well
Oooops - oh sorry, you were talking about good people :wallywink
Good article and he's a nice man
If that's how he saw it, and hard to know where he got it wrong because it all sounds pretty plausible to me, then good on him for having a say
No doubt people will just say it's sour grapes
Maybe an element of both sour grapes and truthfulness
Good timing as well, so the president and everyone else can pull their heads in and give each other unconditional support at the beginning of a new era :thumbsup
Dont let the truth get in the way of a good story there.
I left over $$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Nothing more , nothing less.
Not going to spend 20 hours a week and only get half paid from previous years. WTF
While Wallace reaps $600,000
On this matter, and interesting point is that most coaches put aside money from there own pocket to employ the staff they want.
Eg Runners are poorly paid or not paid, the coach for example would give them $5000 for the year. say $200 a week to pay for there time and expenses
Its happens and most clubs ;)
So you put money ahead of your love for the club.
That's you in a nutshell :thumbsup
-
Not mention of the staff he burnt along the way.
Good people like Steve Alessio , Dave Wheadon he drove out of the place, just to have himself surrounded byfriends, eg Monhurst, Wayne Johnstone, Gordon Casey , Paul Armstrong, , I could go on and on.
You forgot Wallace got rid of you as well
Oooops - oh sorry, you were talking about good people :wallywink
Good article and he's a nice man
If that's how he saw it, and hard to know where he got it wrong because it all sounds pretty plausible to me, then good on him for having a say
No doubt people will just say it's sour grapes
Maybe an element of both sour grapes and truthfulness
Good timing as well, so the president and everyone else can pull their heads in and give each other unconditional support at the beginning of a new era :thumbsup
Dont let the truth get in the way of a good story there.
I left over $$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Nothing more , nothing less.
Not going to spend 20 hours a week and only get half paid from previous years. WTF
While Wallace reaps $600,000
On this matter, and interesting point is that most coaches put aside money from there own pocket to employ the staff they want.
Eg Runners are poorly paid or not paid, the coach for example would give them $5000 for the year. say $200 a week to pay for there time and expenses
Its happens and most clubs ;)
So you put money ahead of your love for the club.
That's you in a nutshell :thumbsup
What about expenses of carparking, petrol and the 20-30 hours aweek ???
-
Jack, no-one paid mine when I worked for them for nothing
-
Jack, no-one paid mine when I worked for them for nothing
Footy clubs are geared up to pay all staff in the footy dept.- Richmonds a bit different ::)
Can you tell both Sheeds and Pagan at least tipped in $30-50K a year into employing extra staff, why ???
That answer is easy, both coaches won flags, funny about that.
Pagan even in his last years at Carlton paid the runners out of his own pocket, why, he wanted the best people around him and to pay there expenses eg petrol to go to training 3 times a week and there time on match days and interstate trips etc.
To pay 4-5 staff $200-$300 aweek to ensure succcess isnt a big deal , if you on $600,000 a year as a coach.
If I was on that coin, I would sacrifice 5-10% to ensure my success
-
Maybe Wallace didn't rate paying you anything
Deal with it
-
Maybe Wallace didn't rate paying you anything
Deal with it
.
Both Wallace and Miller took from the club and gave nothing back.
Oh yeah I forgot, they left a trsain wreck of a playing list.
Now thats good management, well done to all involved, move on.
Next you will be suggesting that both be nominated for legend status at the AFL or at Punt Road. :banghead :banghead
-
FWIW I thought it was a decent article that only discussed the things as Miller saw them, its only his opinion just as we all have ours. He doesn't try to shift blame but mentions many factors that all contributed to non-success. He openly admits to what he sees as his own personal strengths and weaknesses and his role in the eventual downfall of everything.
When we are successful again, it will not be because we finally got the right coach or right CEO or right president - it will be because of a combination of many many factors that all finally 'click' together, so just as it will be unfair to single out the coach for the pats on the back when that happens, it is just as unfair to solely blame Miller and Wallace. Yep, they both failed in the jobs they were employed to do but it wasn't only their fault so you can't whack this article because it fails to deliver that verdict.
-
FWIW I thought it was a decent article that only discussed the things as Miller saw them, its only his opinion just as we all have ours. He doesn't try to shift blame but mentions many factors that all contributed to non-success. He openly admits to what he sees as his own personal strengths and weaknesses and his role in the eventual downfall of everything.
When we are successful again, it will not be because we finally got the right coach or right CEO or right president - it will be because of a combination of many many factors that all finally 'click' together, so just as it will be unfair to single out the coach for the pats on the back when that happens, it is just as unfair to solely blame Miller and Wallace. Yep, they both failed in the jobs they were employed to do but it wasn't only their fault so you can't whack this article because it fails to deliver that verdict.
Good point
-
I thopught it was a decent article too! It has highlighted what all the coaches since 1982 have to deal with, no money and no infrastructure! About Pagan paying runners in his final year out of his own pocket so he could have the best staff- he got sacked! Didnt work!
-
I thopught it was a decent article too! It has highlighted what all the coaches since 1982 have to deal with, no money and no infrastructure! About Pagan paying runners in his final year out of his own pocket so he could have the best staff- he got sacked! Didnt work!
But , both knew the receipe for success. Both had brilliant staff, thats why so many of Sheeds assistants have gone on to coach.
-
I thopught it was a decent article too! It has highlighted what all the coaches since 1982 have to deal with, no money and no infrastructure! About Pagan paying runners in his final year out of his own pocket so he could have the best staff- he got sacked! Didnt work!
But , both new the receipe for success. Both had brilliant staff, thats why so many of Sheeds assistants have gone on to coach.
And who's to say 2011, as predicted by Wallace, won't be our year where we start making the finals consistently?
-
And just on you, Jack, anyone who knows you knows you can't keep a secret
You're a walking time bomb for any club
Why would they pay someone like that?
-
I thopught it was a decent article too! It has highlighted what all the coaches since 1982 have to deal with, no money and no infrastructure! About Pagan paying runners in his final year out of his own pocket so he could have the best staff- he got sacked! Didnt work!
But , both knew the receipe for success. Both had brilliant staff, thats why so many of Sheeds assistants have gone on to coach.
Once Sheeds had success at the Bombers, he never lacked for money. I'm sure his club never stripped finances from his department as Wallace and others at Richmond have had to deal with.
-
And just on you, Jack, anyone who knows you knows you can't keep a secret
You're a walking time bomb for any club
Why would they pay someone like that?
The club has more leaks than the titanic, fact- Most footyclubs do though
Havent been there for 3 years and know more about the place now than I did when I was there. ::)
Aint my fault the thing leaks like a siv. ::)
You have to realise this, most players have best mates who play other clubs, thats a fact of life. They grew up with them and they sociallise outside football together.
What about last weeks leak, wanna blame me for that as well?
What about the circus mid year last year, want to blame me for that as well. ::)
Move on.
T
-
I thopught it was a decent article too! It has highlighted what all the coaches since 1982 have to deal with, no money and no infrastructure! About Pagan paying runners in his final year out of his own pocket so he could have the best staff- he got sacked! Didnt work!
But , both knew the receipe for success. Both had brilliant staff, thats why so many of Sheeds assistants have gone on to coach.
Once Sheeds had success at the Bombers, he never lacked for money. I'm sure his club never stripped finances from his department as Wallace and others at Richmond have had to deal with.
Richmond stripped money for finances as they had to pay Wallace ::)
As I have said for years on here, if he was a CEO for any big company, he would of been outed after after 2 years for failure to deliver and we as a club would be 3 years closer to playing finals
-
And just on you, Jack, anyone who knows you knows you can't keep a secret
You're a walking time bomb for any club
Why would they pay someone like that?
The club has more leaks than the titanic, fact- Most footyclubs do though
Havent been there for 3 years and know more about the place now than I did when I was there. ::)
Aint my fault the thing leaks like a siv. ::)
You have to realise this, most players have best mates who play other clubs, thats a fact of life. They grew up with them and they sociallise outside football together.
What about last weeks leak, wanna blame me for that as well?
What about the circus mid year last year, want to blame me for that as well. ::)
Move on.
T
Anyone who spreads them, whether they are the originators or some bloke 100 down the line, is doing the club an injustice and not someone you'd want on your payroll
-
There must be be some element of truth to what miller is saying here, and as smokey says he doesnt just try to shift the blame, he admits his own failings, something that is difficult to do and not many people will ever do that in their entire life.
As for Wallace, if he was in a situation where the whole structure, or lack there, of the organisation, or lack of support or whatever, made it impossible to to the job he was paid to do, he should have walked away from it. To continue to take that sort of money to do a job where you have minimal chance of delivering what you said you would is pretty poor form. To me that is putting monetary gain ahead of all else, including self pride. After all, he left Footscray saying something along the lines that he had taken the playing group as far as they could go.
Now just to throw a bit more fuel on the fire, there is an interesting post on PRE about T Wallet.
http://www.puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=39367.msg1077408#msg1077408
-
And just on you, Jack, anyone who knows you knows you can't keep a secret
You're a walking time bomb for any club
Why would they pay someone like that?
The club has more leaks than the titanic, fact- Most footyclubs do though
Havent been there for 3 years and know more about the place now than I did when I was there. ::)
Aint my fault the thing leaks like a siv. ::)
You have to realise this, most players have best mates who play other clubs, thats a fact of life. They grew up with them and they sociallise outside football together.
What about last weeks leak, wanna blame me for that as well?
What about the circus mid year last year, want to blame me for that as well. ::)
Move on.
T
Anyone who spreads them, whether they are the originators or some bloke 100 down the line, is doing the club an injustice and not someone you'd want on your payroll
Ask Fev. ;)
-
Ask Fev. ;)
Back to you, do you agree with what I said?
-
well, you would want to get rid of some people still there then.
Hardwick already has problem.- he inheritted
The place needed a complete clean out which hasnt happened.
Even Doctor Death is still there :banghead
-
The place needed a complete clean out which hasnt happened.
Are there no good people at the club Jack?
-
well, you would want to get rid of some people still there then.
Hardwick already has problem.- he inheritted
The place needed a complete clean out which hasnt happened.
Even Doctor Death is still there :banghead
Then name them, Jack
In any organisation, if someone in a company is giving trade secrets away to opposition companies, you would have no hesitation in giving them the boot.
-
Another rubbish effort from someone whose record at Richmond doesnt stand up. He says outside influences- I say, the outside influences werent the ones who stuffed up the recruiting, they werent the ones who selected Oakley Nicholls or Hughes or Casserley or Meyer or Pattison or the rest, they werent the ones taking older experienced players like Kingsley. Just a rubbish piece to be honest. The supporters know the truth and this article is crap and everyone knows it.
-
I think the point is Ramps that all these things contribute to the dysfunction of the club. As much as I believe Wallace and co have to take a fair portion of the blame, this RFC has not seen any real success for close to thirty years, so that that says to me there is an endemic culture at the club that leads to failure. Even if you could put forward a case that this period of failure lays solely at the feet of each and every coach, that would lead to questioning the people that keep appointing these coaches.
-
pick 19 for McMahon - yeah lets blame the supporters ffs :banghead
-
pick 19 for McMahon - yeah lets blame the supporters ffs :banghead
Who blamed the supporters for anything?
And Wallace mentions that on some occasions the decision to recruit/not recruit was overruled by the board so where does the real blame lie? It's far to simplistic and ignorant to lay the blame for failure at the feet of one person.
-
If what he says there were people at board level making all the decisions and interfering, then they get off scot-free and as usual we just blama a couple of handy scapegoats and we continue on our merry way not scrutinising and forever be failures as an organisation.
i know everyone is in pain over this club and you want to blame someone for every woe this club has been through but, to me, everyone has to be responsible for their actions.
Waiting and hoping Wallace and co will come out and take sole responsibility, well that's not going to happen, because clearly it's not all their actions that have kept this club down.
So we move on and hope we learn from mistakes of the past.
-
pick 19 for McMahon - yeah lets blame the supporters ffs :banghead
Who blamed the supporters for anything?
And Wallace mentions that on some occasions the decision to recruit/not recruit was overruled by the board so where does the real blame lie? It's far to simplistic and ignorant to lay the blame for failure at the feet of one person.
Miller blamed outside influences ie. coteries, old players, other outside influences and others Secondly, If im not mistaken, wasnt Miller a part of the clinton casey board? wasnt he the one who jumped on the casey ticket to ensure the victory? give it up ffs. Its just total crap from someone who shouldnt be saying anything. The record at Richmond during his time is diabolical -just disgraceful.
-
pick 19 for McMahon - yeah lets blame the supporters ffs :banghead
Who blamed the supporters for anything?
And Wallace mentions that on some occasions the decision to recruit/not recruit was overruled by the board so where does the real blame lie? It's far to simplistic and ignorant to lay the blame for failure at the feet of one person.
Miller blamed outside influences ie. coteries, old players, other outside influences and others Secondly, If im not mistaken, wasnt Miller a part of the clinton casey board? wasnt he the one who jumped on the casey ticket to ensure the victory? give it up ffs. Its just total crap from someone who shouldnt be saying anything. The record at Richmond during his time is diabolical -just disgraceful.
Those comments mean to me you'd prefer to remain a basketcase forever
If you don't examine where we went wrong "properly" you may as well give up
-
So who do you blame for "diabolical -just disgraceful" record from 1983 up until the Wallace-Miller years Ramps?
-
when they are both dead or admit they are effups
Then enjoy your ulcers lol :thumbsup :rollin
did i ever mention i have ulcers , im as healthy as one can be
mind body and soul
-
And just on you, Jack, anyone who knows you knows you can't keep a secret
You're a walking time bomb for any club
Why would they pay someone like that?
The club has more leaks than the titanic, fact- Most footyclubs do though
Havent been there for 3 years and know more about the place now than I did when I was there. ::)
Aint my fault the thing leaks like a siv. ::)
You have to realise this, most players have best mates who play other clubs, thats a fact of life. They grew up with them and they sociallise outside football together.
What about last weeks leak, wanna blame me for that as well?
What about the circus mid year last year, want to blame me for that as well. ::)
Move on.
T
What kind of excuse is that? Just because others leak info means you should leak it all over the internet?
That's like saying just because other people murder someone means you should go on a shooting spree
Allowing yourself to damage the club just because others do it is pathetic
-
:sleep :sleep :sleep :sleep :sleep, will Terry get any credit in a few years IF, IF, IF we win a flag and some of the players he recruited are still there??????????????????????????????? Idout it. Terry Wallace has gone get the hell over him FFS!!! Blame him for the rest of your life if you like it won't change anyhthing, move on.
-
And just on you, Jack, anyone who knows you knows you can't keep a secret
You're a walking time bomb for any club
Why would they pay someone like that?
The club has more leaks than the titanic, fact- Most footyclubs do though
Havent been there for 3 years and know more about the place now than I did when I was there. ::)
Aint my fault the thing leaks like a siv. ::)
You have to realise this, most players have best mates who play other clubs, thats a fact of life. They grew up with them and they sociallise outside football together.
What about last weeks leak, wanna blame me for that as well?
What about the circus mid year last year, want to blame me for that as well. ::)
Move on.
T
What kind of excuse is that? Just because others leak info means you should leak it all over the internet?
That's like saying just because other people murder someone means you should go on a shooting spree
Allowing yourself to damage the club just because others do it is pathetic
Mate my mail is usually 5th hand.
You internet nuffers have little idea ::)
-
Another rubbish effort from someone whose record at Richmond doesnt stand up. He says outside influences- I say, the outside influences werent the ones who stuffed up the recruiting, they werent the ones who selected Oakley Nicholls or Hughes or Casserley or Meyer or Pattison or the rest, they werent the ones taking older experienced players like Kingsley. Just a rubbish piece to be honest. The supporters know the truth and this article is crap and everyone knows it.
POST OF THE DECADE. Thank you
-
well, you would want to get rid of some people still there then.
Hardwick already has problem.- he inheritted
The place needed a complete clean out which hasnt happened.
Even Doctor Death is still there :banghead
Then name them, Jack
In any organisation, if someone in a company is giving trade secrets away to opposition companies, you would have no hesitation in giving them the boot.
Its not about trade secrets.
Its all about losing CULTURE.
Apart from current coaches , the same support people are still there. whats the point, and furthermore, who on earth drafted Hicks, what a waste of pick, nothing against the kid, he would be 65kilos ringing wet
Hardwick should of started from scratch..
Still cant beleive the Doctor is still there, surely there would of been a review of his position, especially after the Richo and Cousins problems last years of sending players back on injured :banghead
-
Its just total crap from someone who shouldnt be saying anything.
What part of it is crap? Please point out anything he said that in your opinion is incorrect in fact.
-
And just on you, Jack, anyone who knows you knows you can't keep a secret
You're a walking time bomb for any club
Why would they pay someone like that?
The club has more leaks than the titanic, fact- Most footyclubs do though
Havent been there for 3 years and know more about the place now than I did when I was there. ::)
Aint my fault the thing leaks like a siv. ::)
You have to realise this, most players have best mates who play other clubs, thats a fact of life. They grew up with them and they sociallise outside football together.
What about last weeks leak, wanna blame me for that as well?
What about the circus mid year last year, want to blame me for that as well. ::)
Move on.
T
What kind of excuse is that? Just because others leak info means you should leak it all over the internet?
That's like saying just because other people murder someone means you should go on a shooting spree
Allowing yourself to damage the club just because others do it is pathetic
Mate my mail is usually 5th hand.
You internet nuffers have little idea ::)
Yet you keep saying your sources are "from the horses mouth"
Regarless, how does that justify it? You are by far the worst on the entire internet for posting negative news about the club.
Just SHUT UP!!!
-
So who do you blame for "diabolical -just disgraceful" record from 1983 up until the Wallace-Miller years Ramps?
Look I dont have all day
but from 1983 to about 1985 I blame the administration for losing key players like Raines, Wood, Cloke
from 1983 to about 1990 I blame the recruiters for recruiting Collingwood players who werent up to it
I also blame them for leaving Richmond in a disastrous financial state resulting in Save our Skins
I blame the administration that ran Richmond for never properly completing any rebuild from 83 til now
I also blame them for sacking Bartlett who was trying to do the right thing by getting in youth
I blame the administration of the club that went from coach to coach through the 1990s Bartlett, Jeans, Northey, Walls etc etc.
I blame the administration for recruiting a coach like Danny Frawley - the fallacy of which was shown not only by the results attained over 5 years but by a back page of the herald sun that had the photographs of 10 candidates all crossed out with last man standing Frawley getting the job
I blame the administration for allowing frawley to go the quick fix after he the prelim.
I blame the administration under Clinton Casey for appointing Greg Miller to a job at Richmond and then getting him to sit on the board- just a disgraceful state of affairs where an employee was a board member that had to assess a CEO whilst the CEO had to the assess an employee who was on the board.
I blame the recruiters from 2004 who failed at the 2004 national draft and the subsequent drafts
I blame the administration for keeping Wallace to long
I would continue but I have things to do: but this is just a small summary of who I blame.
Thank god for the supporters and the coteries who kept our club alive during this time of disgraceful decision making, for buying memberships and merchandise and for keeping a great club alive! Its about the only thing we have going for us.
Lets hope March Gale Cameron and Hardwick can create a new Richmond. The Richmond we deserve!
-
So who do you blame for "diabolical -just disgraceful" record from 1983 up until the Wallace-Miller years Ramps?
Look I dont have all day
but from 1983 to about 1985 I blame the administration for losing key players like Raines, Wood, Cloke
from 1983 to about 1990 I blame the recruiters for recruiting Collingwood players who werent up to it
I also blame them for leaving Richmond in a disastrous financial state resulting in Save our Skins
I blame the administration that ran Richmond for never properly completing any rebuild from 83 til now
I also blame them for sacking Bartlett who was trying to do the right thing by getting in youth
I blame the administration of the club that went from coach to coach through the 1990s Bartlett, Jeans, Northey, Walls etc etc.
I blame the administration for recruiting a coach like Danny Frawley - the fallacy of which was shown not only by the results attained over 5 years but by a back page of the herald sun that had the photographs of 10 candidates all crossed out with last man standing Frawley getting the job
I blame the administration for allowing frawley to go the quick fix after he the prelim.
I blame the administration under Clinton Casey for appointing Greg Miller to a job at Richmond and then getting him to sit on the board- just a disgraceful state of affairs where an employee was a board member that had to assess a CEO whilst the CEO had to the assess an employee who was on the board.
I blame the recruiters from 2004 who failed at the 2004 national draft and the subsequent drafts
I blame the administration for keeping Wallace to long
I would continue but I have things to do: but this is just a small summary of who I blame.
Thank god for the supporters and the coteries who kept our club alive during this time of disgraceful decision making, for buying memberships and merchandise and for keeping a great club alive! Its about the only thing we have going for us.
Lets hope March Gale Cameron and Hardwick can create a new Richmond. The Richmond we deserve!
Ramps, we are on the same page my friend, pity people dont realise what the real issues are
-
Ramps, we are on the same page my friend, pity people dont realise what the real issues are
The trouble is Jack, up until this post you have both been trying to lay the blame at the feet of Miller and Wallace and now this post serves to highlight what we are all trying to say - there were/are a large number of reasons and to single out Miller or Wallace is just not fair, regardless of what you think of them personally.
-
Ramps, we are on the same page my friend, pity people dont realise what the real issues are
The trouble is Jack, up until this post you have both been trying to lay the blame at the feet of Miller and Wallace and now this post serves to highlight what we are all trying to say - there were/are a large number of reasons and to single out Miller or Wallace is just not fair, regardless of what you think of them personally.
Hey hold on a minute, both "'feathered there own nest.""
Wallace should of been gone after end of year 2 :banghead
Players were peeed right off then
I dont care what anyone says, the axing of Kellaway and Gaspar caused a huge rift at punt road.
And more importantly , you lose 2 people who bled for the yellow and black.
Cant say the same about Miller and Wallace.
-
I dont care what anyone says, the axing of Kellaway and Gaspar caused a huge rift at punt road.
And more importantly , you lose 2 people who bled for the yellow and black.
I don't care what anyone says, it was the right move
Gaspar only got to keep his spot on the list as he was a veteran and with no one else eligible he was a "free" player
Kellaway was unlucky that he hadn't played for 10 years to be a veteran and we needed to clear space for kids
-
I dont care what anyone says, the axing of Kellaway and Gaspar caused a huge rift at punt road.
And more importantly , you lose 2 people who bled for the yellow and black.
I don't care what anyone says, it was the right move
Gaspar only got to keep his spot on the list as he was a veteran and with no one else eligible he was a "free" player
Kellaway was unlucky that he hadn't played for 10 years to be a veteran and we needed to clear space for kids
I am sick to death with discussinng topics with idiots.
We have a culture problem at Punt Road.
Supporters dont realise that both Gas and Chubber had mentoring roles at the footy club, like it or not.
Gas was the most popular player down there ( besides Richo )
All the players looked up to Gas, he was made scapegoat when the team lost 5 in a row, so Wallace took the long knife out and used it.
The Chubber axing was even worse and left a bad taste in everyones mouth.
You dont treat servants at the club like that.
You wouldnt find two better individuals than Gas and Chubber
Thus is the one of many reasons for Benny Gale appointed CEO to ensure the culture is changed..
You make me laugh Infamy as you say the Chubber was moved on to make way for the kids, LOL
You have no idea
-
Let go of the Richmond trolls at the HUN everyone.
Just a nothing article designed to derail our club.
Was wondering when they were gonna stick the knives in to start their anti Richmond campaign for 2010.
Getting in early now that Robbos club has troubles with Hurley.
Nice deflection HUNnies. :lol :shh
-
No one here has said that that Wallace or Miller are blameless. Most opinions seem to be that the rot goes deeper than just these two individuals. Both Ramps and Jackstar have said that there have been problems with support staff/administartion, yet both of you say that Miller is full of crap for pointing out these sort of problems.
It makes no sense. How can he be wrong if what he is saying is backing up your claims of deeper problems than just two people???
-
How can he be wrong if what he is saying is backing up your claims of deeper problems than just two people???
Because it doesn't suit their tirade of hate. Miller and Wallace are both ducks which means they are both made of wood so let's burn them! ::)
-
Hey hold on a minute, both "'feathered there own nest.""
Wallace should of been gone after end of year 2 :banghead
Players were peeed right off then
I dont care what anyone says, the axing of Kellaway and Gaspar caused a huge rift at punt road.
And more importantly , you lose 2 people who bled for the yellow and black.
Cant say the same about Miller and Wallace.
So? None of that has any relevance to choosing to single out Miller and Wallace for all the blame of what is/went wrong with our club. You and Ramps appear hellbent on making sure the buck of responsibility starts and stops with Miller and Wallace yet when pressed for a list of reasons for failure you come up with a plethora of names and instances, most of them not even when Miller and Wallace were at the club! No-one is denying that they failed in their jobs but to not acknowledge the collective effort towards failure over the whole 30 year period and then not see the need for a deeper 'fix' is just perpetuating the problems of those last 30 years. Head in the sand stuff really.
-
/quote]
Or a highly distorted version of the truth
rubbish,
what was distorted?
the truth about being under resourced? or the truth about influential outside factions? like i said some supporters are blindly defensive of the club, probably why the club is able to get away with the rubbish of the past 28 years yea after year. Whatever u think of miller (and believe me i don't think much of him) a lot f that was spot on.
Here's a tip and bookmark it. In 3 years if this hasn't been sorted, and there is still knifing in the back going on then hardwick will be moved on bc a fractured club is never successful, but i guess supporters like u will be saying another crap coach right? :)
I'll tell you exactly what was distorted. Greg Miller trying to portray himself and Wallace as completely blameless in the mess of the last 5 years.
If the recruiting dept. had only had two brass buttons thrown at it, they should have recognized when we had the cream of the draft picks in 04, that we needed to snare either one of Roughhead or Franklin, and probably both. And that's not hindsight. I was extremely ticked off on the day that we stocked up on mids instead, and the two divergent paths the clubs have taken since have proven me right.
And for the record, right at the start of my blurb I acknowledged the in-fighting and lack of financial resources. I have been as frustrated as anybody over the last 30 years with the clubs' inability to unite and fight.
As for supporters like me, that's exactly what I am. A supporter. I may not be happy with the club's direction at times, and sometimes I get as sucked in by the hype and spin as everybody else. But whatever happens, I always plonk my money down year after year,and scream for the Tigers with every bit of breath in my lungs. And finally, I'm RAPT that we chose Hardwick, because he's the one I wanted all along. I fully believe that, given time, if he can't turn our fortunes around, then we really are beyond saving.
-
I dont care what anyone says, the axing of Kellaway and Gaspar caused a huge rift at punt road.
And more importantly , you lose 2 people who bled for the yellow and black.
I don't care what anyone says, it was the right move
Gaspar only got to keep his spot on the list as he was a veteran and with no one else eligible he was a "free" player
Kellaway was unlucky that he hadn't played for 10 years to be a veteran and we needed to clear space for kids
I am sick to death with discussinng topics with idiots.
We have a culture problem at Punt Road.
Supporters dont realise that both Gas and Chubber had mentoring roles at the footy club, like it or not.
Gas was the most popular player down there ( besides Richo )
All the players looked up to Gas, he was made scapegoat when the team lost 5 in a row, so Wallace took the long knife out and used it.
The Chubber axing was even worse and left a bad taste in everyones mouth.
You dont treat servants at the club like that.
You wouldnt find two better individuals than Gas and Chubber
Thus is the one of many reasons for Benny Gale appointed CEO to ensure the culture is changed..
You make me laugh Infamy as you say the Chubber was moved on to make way for the kids, LOL
You have no idea
I couldn't care less about any of that crap. No one told Gaspar to walk out, they just told him he was being dropped. It was the right call too as he was too slow and had terrible disposal. Moving him on gave players like Thursfield & McGuane the opportunity to play in the key posts after a few years in the system. They've now formed a decent trio with Moore down back thanks to that time playing together.
I didn't want Kellaway being moved on either, but the fact is he wasn't eligible for the veterans list as he had a late start to his career. I would have far preferred to keep him over Kent Kingsley, however the original decision to cut him was the right one. Given we were probably going to take Kingsley anyway means the fact Kellaway is gone means that Collins is now on the list.
They may have been good clubmen, however they were no world beaters and didn't deserve to be treated as untouchable.
It's funny how one of the main critisisms of Wallace was that he didn't turn the list over quick enough and hung on to too many older players, yet delisting Gaspar & Kellaway is also considered one of his bad moves. What a joke, it was probably the best decision he/they made in his time at Richmond. Unfortunately the players he replaced them with were no good.
-
As a club, it had a bad effect on the playing group and the culture at the club.
How would you know anyway Infamy ?
Do tell, i am all ears.
-
No one here has said that that Wallace or Miller are blameless. Most opinions seem to be that the rot goes deeper than just these two individuals. Both Ramps and Jackstar have said that there have been problems with support staff/administartion, yet both of you say that Miller is full of crap for pointing out these sort of problems.
It makes no sense. How can he be wrong if what he is saying is backing up your claims of deeper problems than just two people???
lol bang on
-
Or a highly distorted version of the truth
rubbish,
what was distorted?
the truth about being under resourced? or the truth about influential outside factions? like i said some supporters are blindly defensive of the club, probably why the club is able to get away with the rubbish of the past 28 years yea after year. Whatever u think of miller (and believe me i don't think much of him) a lot f that was spot on.
Here's a tip and bookmark it. In 3 years if this hasn't been sorted, and there is still knifing in the back going on then hardwick will be moved on bc a fractured club is never successful, but i guess supporters like u will be saying another crap coach right? :)
I'll tell you exactly what was distorted. Greg Miller trying to portray himself and Wallace as completely blameless in the mess of the last 5 years.
If the recruiting dept. had only had two brass buttons thrown at it, they should have recognized when we had the cream of the draft picks in 04, that we needed to snare either one of Roughhead or Franklin, and probably both. And that's not hindsight. I was extremely ticked off on the day that we stocked up on mids instead, and the two divergent paths the clubs have taken since have proven me right.
And for the record, right at the start of my blurb I acknowledged the in-fighting and lack of financial resources. I have been as frustrated as anybody over the last 30 years with the clubs' inability to unite and fight.
As for supporters like me, that's exactly what I am. A supporter. I may not be happy with the club's direction at times, and sometimes I get as sucked in by the hype and spin as everybody else. But whatever happens, I always plonk my money down year after year,and scream for the Tigers with every bit of breath in my lungs. And finally, I'm RAPT that we chose Hardwick, because he's the one I wanted all along. I fully believe that, given time, if he can't turn our fortunes around, then we really are beyond saving.
I admire supporters like you, I'll put my hand up and state I'm not like that. I love this club and bleed year after year but I really have no respect for the ppl that run the place. I actually despise what the club has become. Nobody for a second thinks miller and wallace didn't eff up in a big way, but what most of us are also saying is it obviously goes a lot deeper than just clown coach after clown coach. Everytime the pressure builds, the board engages in some blood letting to appease the masses, dumps it all on the outgoing personel and once more they escape the limelight until the pressure builds on the next coach and so the vicious circle continues.
-
its called culture
-
well we need to rip this biatch out and creat a new one!
does anybody have the balls to do it?
-
Thank heavens Miller/Wallet have gone. All the excuses in the world won't change things in my eyes, particularly as I am yet to see many acknowledgement's of their numerous errors (none in Wallet's case). Their football reputations are in tatters & good riddance. Enjoy your RFC retirement funds.
Anyone who spreads them, whether they are the originators or some bloke 100 down the line, is doing the club an injustice and not someone you'd want on your payroll
Have to agree with this though.
Jackstar I am really disappointed with a lot of the club information you post on internet forums which somewhat confidential whether it's first hand or 5th hand. Totally unproductive and damaging to our club and I'd prefer you didn't do it. Seeing as 95% of it usually has a negative angle, I really am unsure what benefit you get from it? Do you get kicks out of seeing our team suffer or what? :-\
-
Thank heavens Miller/Wallet have gone. All the excuses in the world won't change things in my eyes, particularly as I am yet to see many acknowledgement's of their numerous errors (none in Wallet's case). Their football reputations are in tatters & good riddance. Enjoy your RFC retirement funds.
Anyone who spreads them, whether they are the originators or some bloke 100 down the line, is doing the club an injustice and not someone you'd want on your payroll
Have to agree with this though.
Jackstar I am really disappointed with a lot of the club information you post on internet forums which somewhat confidential whether it's first hand or 5th hand. Totally unproductive and damaging to our club and I'd prefer you didn't do it. Seeing as 95% of it usually has a negative angle, I really am unsure what benefit you get from it? Do you get kicks out of seeing our team suffer or what? :-\
Information I post is usually 5th hand.
Can tell you that its been around the traps and usually known in the footy circles anyway,. Dont see a big drama reporting that Terry Wallet is a sissy !, LOL
-
and if i have posted things about Gas and Chubber that happended 3 years ago when I was in the room, whats the big deal , its the truth anyway
-
Information I post is usually 5th hand.
Can tell you that its been around the traps and usually known in the footy circles anyway
Fair enough if that is the case.
However I'd really hope that now that Wallet's left the building that yourself and others who are privy to such information(whether 1st or 5th hand) refrain from leaking information out to the masses where possible.
For example I was extremely disappointed to read yesterday that Gale's internal vision had been leaked out to the media.
We need all Richmond people to be pulling together right now to lift this club back to where it belongs and these leaks need to stop.
-
Anyone who moves on two major duds like Gas and Kellaway deserve a 5 year extension.
Coaching the RFC would be like pioneering a cure for cancer-once you did,no cnut would give a stuff about you.
-
Information I post is usually 5th hand.
Can tell you that its been around the traps and usually known in the footy circles anyway
Fair enough if that is the case.
However I'd really hope that now that Wallet's left the building that yourself and others who are privy to such information(whether 1st or 5th hand) refrain from leaking information out to the masses where possible.
For example I was extremely disappointed to read yesterday that Gale's internal vision had been leaked out to the media.
We need all Richmond people to be pulling together right now to lift this club back to where it belongs and these leaks need to stop.
FFucken dont blame me.
Posted earlier on they should clean everyone out of the place and I get internet idiots abusing me, :banghead :banghead :banghead
-
Feffen dont blame me.
Posted earlier on they should clean everyone out of the place and I get internet idiots abusing me, :banghead :banghead :banghead
I'm not abusuing you. Like I said if that's the case fair enough.
I just want the leaks to stop because I have had a gutful of them.
If Benny ever finds who leaked that document to Gleeson I hope they have their balls.
-
Feffen dont blame me.
Posted earlier on they should clean everyone out of the place and I get internet idiots abusing me, :banghead :banghead :banghead
I'm not abusuing you. Like I said if that's the case fair enough.
I just want the leaks to stop because I have had a gutful of them.
If Benny ever finds who leaked that document to Gleeson I hope they have their balls.
Yep, Benny should get rid of all the "' hangers on "' down here.
The people who think there very important but they aint,
-
Posted earlier on they should clean everyone out of the place....
Everyone Jack? No-one at the club is worth keeping?
-
No one here has said that that Wallace or Miller are blameless. Most opinions seem to be that the rot goes deeper than just these two individuals. Both Ramps and Jackstar have said that there have been problems with support staff/administartion, yet both of you say that Miller is full of crap for pointing out these sort of problems.
It makes no sense. How can he be wrong if what he is saying is backing up your claims of deeper problems than just two people???
Just so that people dont misunderstand my view - Its this
People who have been in any organisation and the organisation has failed during that time, In my opinion, those people shouldnt be saying anything to the media afterwards, and they shouldnt be offering there reasons for the failure- they should have tried to change it!
Did they try and change it? How? How does agreeing to sit on a board whilst being an normal employee under the assessment of a CEO help in create cultural change?
By the way some people have said that Jacko and me HATE people, I cant answer for Jacko- but I dont hate anybody, I call it how I see it, these guys came to Richmond- we were last, they left Richmond, and we were still last. Im entitled to my opinion![/b]
-
No one here has said that that Wallace or Miller are blameless. Most opinions seem to be that the rot goes deeper than just these two individuals. Both Ramps and Jackstar have said that there have been problems with support staff/administartion, yet both of you say that Miller is full of crap for pointing out these sort of problems.
It makes no sense. How can he be wrong if what he is saying is backing up your claims of deeper problems than just two people???
Just so that people dont misunderstand my view - Its this
People who have been in any organisation and the organisation has failed during that time, In my opinion, those people shouldnt be saying anything to the media afterwards, and they shouldnt be offering there reasons for the failure- they should have tried to change it!
Did they try and change it? How? How does agreeing to sit on a board whilst being an normal employee under the assessment of a CEO help in create cultural change?
By the way some people have said that Jacko and me HATE people, I cant answer for Jacko- but I dont hate anybody, I call it how I see it, these guys came to Richmond- we were last, they left Richmond, and we were still last. Im entitled to my opinion![/b]
Am with you Ramps :thumbsup
These people contributed zip to the RFC
-
facts facts and more facts.
as long as people like miller and wallace deflect and paint a picture, there should always be those about the place who set the record straight.
if miller can paint a picture and it becomes the truth we will forever be painted in a poor light and a club that turns on its own.
the simple fact is theis sorry episode in our history goes back to 1999. the subsequent casey miller wallace yrs a re intertwined linked and damning. one could not ever picture 3 blokes sticking together for so long thru so much failure.
the real questions that need asking is HOW DID THEY SURVIVE SO LONG WHILE DOING SO MUCH DAMAGE.This is the question we want answered we want it understood by all just so it cant happen again.
yeah its all old hat and some can well say let it go and i vehemently disagree. we have to learn from this. whats that saying he who learns nothing from history is doomed to make the same mistakes.
every time a spin doctor like miller puts a false slant on things and people believe it he changes history or in our case nothing changes. we continue to be portrayed as a club who eats their own when nothing could be further from the truth.
sheesh casey frawley miller wallace should be grateful they managed to survive so long after such appalling performances. over such a long period of time.
ya know i find it ironic leon daphne was sacked in 99 after basically saving the club from bankruptcy. he was arsed because the footy dept was getting no money or the new ticket wanted more money spent on the footy dept.
casey hired miller and wallace yet spent nothing in critical areas of the club while at the same time taking the club from the black to 5.5 mil in debt. now thats ironic.
on miller sheesh you could write a book on this charlatan and the destruction he wreaked on our club. he got away with this because there was no processes in place to make him accountable i dont know if much has changed either.
-
Just so that people dont misunderstand my view - Its this
People who have been in any organisation and the organisation has failed during that time, In my opinion, those people shouldnt be saying anything to the media afterwards, and they shouldnt be offering there reasons for the failure- they should have tried to change it!
Did they try and change it? How? How does agreeing to sit on a board whilst being an normal employee under the assessment of a CEO help in create cultural change?
By the way some people have said that Jacko and me HATE people, I cant answer for Jacko- but I dont hate anybody, I call it how I see it, these guys came to Richmond- we were last, they left Richmond, and we were still last. Im entitled to my opinion!
Still not clear on this - is it Miller and Wallace's fault that Richmond is where it is today?
-
the simple fact is theis sorry episode in our history goes back to 1999.
You are kidding yourself.
-
Great post The Claw.
What amazes me that once the masses have a new appointment, they all get excited and beleive that this new person will lead them to success. ::)
Working with Wallace for 2 years lead me to beleive he was leading us to ruins, but the club wanted to be "'honourable "' and wasted another 3 years on him being fully uncountable
And your right, there were no performance indictors for Wallace or Miller.
People beleive that our CEO at the time did a great job, his perfomance in my eyes was terrible as he had the opportunity to work with the board and other decision makers to ""fix"" certain things, he didnt and he has now been replaced.
-
Just so that people dont misunderstand my view - Its this
People who have been in any organisation and the organisation has failed during that time, In my opinion, those people shouldnt be saying anything to the media afterwards, and they shouldnt be offering there reasons for the failure- they should have tried to change it!
Did they try and change it? How? How does agreeing to sit on a board whilst being an normal employee under the assessment of a CEO help in create cultural change?
By the way some people have said that Jacko and me HATE people, I cant answer for Jacko- but I dont hate anybody, I call it how I see it, these guys came to Richmond- we were last, they left Richmond, and we were still last. Im entitled to my opinion!
Still not clear on this - is it Miller and Wallace's fault that Richmond is where it is today?
YES, we have an extremely poor list thanks to these two clowns
-
the simple fact is theis sorry episode in our history goes back to 1999. the subsequent casey miller wallace yrs a re intertwined linked and damning. one could not ever picture 3 blokes sticking together for so long thru so much failure.
You have a short memory, it goes back a lot further than that
-
YES, we have an extremely poor list thanks to these two clowns
That will be a great relief to Danny Frawley, Clinton Casey, Robert Walls, Leon Daphne, Jeff Geischen, etc etc.
-
Why i reckon this club is"farooked"
It's simple.
Stupid idiots!
Not the players but the admin,commitee members and most importantly the sloths who managed to control from behind the curtain.
You could probably count them on one hand over a 25 year period.
People arent to blame for their opinions but rather the private boys club type propaganda that has flowe out of punt road for what seems ever.
One thing for sure - when the players basically refuse to go any further under a certain coach,the joint is f ahked !!!!!!
Only hope left is to blueprint a professional structure and follow it.
First thing to find tho is a soul.
-
jaackstar, do you think Richmond is now in "good hands", the big four i am meaning, Hardwick, Gale, March, Cameron?
or is this question to early to answer?
:)
-
Why bring an article like this up at this point in time less than three weeks from the start of the season?
Some on hear have said that our problems began in 1983 I say they began at the end of 1976 when our most successful coach ever in Tom Hafey left the club. We were on the path to destruction when we won the flag in 1980 but we had enough pennies in the bank and we were able to prowl with enough aura.
Ian Wilson has alot to answer for. The Hafey saga in 1976 and then the infighting with Barry Richardson in 1984-85 all under his tenure. This article only seems to generate how poor we have been as a club in 35 years and why poo like this gets printed and the media just have no regard for us and print this refuse.
-
Maybe we all need to go back and watch David Williamson's "The Club" as it might be a lot closer to the truth than we think.
I'm the first to admit that I do not have a true insight into the back room politics of our club but as a supporter of our Club for 40 years, I do know that despite its true origins, destabilisation in any organisation is a recipe for disaster.
In the past our Club has been one of the few where quality players and staff looking for a gig would regularly and quite often publicly rule out as a realistic option. The only people of note who would come, would only do so if they were offered plenty of cash or long term contracts, (Brown, Simmonds, Wallace and so on...) This would guarantee them a stable opportunity in an environment that has been described as volatile for many years. I got the feeling that even Cuz may have preferred to go elsewhere if other opportunities had arisen for him.
Lets face it, our club has been on an unstable fault line since the mid 80's. We went from 5 premierships in 13 years to zero in the subsequent 13. We became victims of our own freakish success and every year that passed where we did not meet expectations, the pressure to regain those glory days ever increased. Pressure from us the supporters, pressure from sponsors and pressure from past players. In order to achieve this success and to overcome a massive loss of talent through retirement, the club became impatient, looking for a quick fix or a magic pill and with this came a multitude of poor decisions that we have suffered for almost 30 years. Who knows, The Brisbane Lions may become the next Richmond if they don't win another premiership in the next 5-10 years. They too will feel the heat trying to live up to their freakish successes of 2001-2003.
I believe we have finally learned our lesson with the appointment of Hardwick. He has made no promises of short term success, he is painting a real picture of where we are at and is taking what he believes are the right steps toward future long term success but most of all, he is attempting to instill a culture of patience. Something that our club has not had since 1980. Sure we all still crave success as shown by the recent banter on our practice matches, but I for one have finally realised that we won't play finals this year or maybe even next year, but when we do, I am confident that it will be based on a solid foundation of proactive decisions born through an instilled culture of patience and not a culture based on impatience and unrealistic expectations.
-
Great post Tiga :thumbsup
-
jaackstar, do you think Richmond is now in "good hands", the big four i am meaning, Hardwick, Gale, March, Cameron?
or is this question to early to answer?
:)
Answer, we are half way there.
Hardwick and Gale are great appointments.
Leave it at that.
I aint a March person as I have seen him get involved in footy matters in this past which he shouldnt have been involved in, mail is , that hasnt chnaged either. Jury is out on Cameron.
-
Answer, we are half way there.
Hardwick and Gale are great appointments.
Leave it at that.
I aint a March person as I have seen him get involved in footy matters in this past which he shouldnt have been involved in, mail is , that hasnt chnaged either. Jury is out on Cameron.
Good to see you're largely on board Jackie.
March may or may not be the best option but he has appointed Gale, presided over Hardwick's appointment and lifted the curtain on Wallet/Miller.
Gary doesn't get all things right but I think he's done a pretty damn good job trying to undo the wreckage from the Casey era and get our club finally pulling in the same direction. That in itself is a monumental task and mistakes will be made along the way but we need to look at the big picture and not nitpick along the journey.
Why bring an article like this up at this point in time less than three weeks from the start of the season?
Simple. Specs has deliberately opened up an old wound at a time when the club is showing more unity and direction than it has in the past 30 years.
It's transparent to me that despite obvious failures Wallet/Miller having left the building some time ago, Sheehan's one sided article is looking to create drama and instability at Richmond once again.
Whether successful or not the Tiges are always big news in the press and Mike knows it better than anyone.
This week Mike will write about us being a basket case, next it'll be that we are finally on the right path. :rollin
It's really grain of salt stuff and quite pathetic really but Mike sure knows the buttons to push to create a sense of uncertainty.
Seems that there's one more thing that's more entertaining for the AFL media than seeing Richmond successful and that's seeing us eat each other alive.
Hopefully Richmond(Admin, coaches, players & supporters) finally band together and look forward to the future rather than dwell on the past and see these articles for what they are.
Moving on..
-
Miller was at Mikes 60th Birthday a few years back, say no more
-
No one here has said that that Wallace or Miller are blameless. Most opinions seem to be that the rot goes deeper than just these two individuals. Both Ramps and Jackstar have said that there have been problems with support staff/administartion, yet both of you say that Miller is full of crap for pointing out these sort of problems.
It makes no sense. How can he be wrong if what he is saying is backing up your claims of deeper problems than just two people???
Just so that people dont misunderstand my view - Its this
People who have been in any organisation and the organisation has failed during that time, In my opinion, those people shouldnt be saying anything to the media afterwards, and they shouldnt be offering there reasons for the failure- they should have tried to change it!
Did they try and change it? How? How does agreeing to sit on a board whilst being an normal employee under the assessment of a CEO help in create cultural change?
By the way some people have said that Jacko and me HATE people, I cant answer for Jacko- but I dont hate anybody, I call it how I see it, these guys came to Richmond- we were last, they left Richmond, and we were still last. Im entitled to my opinion![/b]
Am with you Ramps :thumbsup
These people contributed zip to the RFC
Find it strange you would agree with this Jack. Just a heads up, the internet is a form of media.
-
jack nothing more on the michael green rumour of several months back?
seems a pity to waste a talent like michael green ,even in some other capacity
-
People who have been in any organisation and the organisation has failed during that time, In my opinion, those people shouldnt be saying anything to the media afterwards, and they shouldnt be offering there reasons for the failure- they should have tried to change it!
.........
these guys came to Richmond- we were last, they left Richmond, and we were still last.
So what's your opinion on Jack having his say all over the internet Ramps?
-
Why bring an article like this up at this point in time less than three weeks from the start of the season?
Some on hear have said that our problems began in 1983 I say they began at the end of 1976 when our most successful coach ever in Tom Hafey left the club. We were on the path to destruction when we won the flag in 1980 but we had enough pennies in the bank and we were able to prowl with enough aura.
Ian Wilson has alot to answer for. The Hafey saga in 1976 and then the infighting with Barry Richardson in 1984-85 all under his tenure. This article only seems to generate how poor we have been as a club in 35 years and why poo like this gets printed and the media just have no regard for us and print this refuse.
1975 actually Tucker. Roberts, Jackson, Teasdale vs Pitura. Ripped the soul out of the club and we have never recovered.
-
I ain't a March person as I have seen him get involved in footy matters in this past which he shouldn't have been involved in, mail is , that hasn't changed either.
And yet it is all Miller and Wallace's fault?
-
As others have mentioned it was a unbiased article/interview.
There were some comments made that whether people want to admit it or not are sadly true, that is past players & coteries having too much say and influence. That is IMHO an indictment on the RFC and has been for over 30 years now. It is also true that there wasn't enough unity amongst the big 4 at the club...
Does it excuse the failures of the Wallace/Miller era? Absolutely not and nor should it.
We can only hope that the unity is there now and IMO my intitial views from the outside looking in is that the UNITY we need is finally there. Let's hope it stays that way
-
As others have mentioned it was a unbiased article/interview.
Disagree entirely with that WP.
Whilst some of what you say may well be true, Sheehan's article was a blame game piece that contained very little balance and there was little to no revelation of the countless mistakes Wallace and Miller made along the way.
-
Miller was at Mikes 60th Birthday a few years back, say no more
Big deal - you were probably there as well, say no more ;)
-
As others have mentioned it was a unbiased article/interview.
Disagree entirely with that WP.
Whilst some of what you say may well be true, Sheehan's article was a blame game piece that contained very little balance and there was little to no revelation of the countless mistakes Wallace and Miller made along the way.
Fair enough Magic
I just thought it didn't contain "they sacked me I putting the boots in" type crap. Did anywhere in the article did Mike say "typical Richmond implosion"? Did Miller take a big stick to anyone at the club and say things like "March is a dog because he sacked me", "Hardwick hasn't a hope because of the factions down' there" etc. I was generally surprised that Miller even admitted to his weaknesses as a manager
Nope and for that i reckon it was pretty balanced and unbiased
-
Sheehan's article was a blame game piece that contained very little balance and there was little to no revelation of the countless mistakes Wallace and Miller made along the way.
I don't see it that way at all MM. It was an interview, nothing more and all Sheehan did was put the words into print. He offers no opinion or conjecture, only the views and opinions of Miller so in this one, Mike is not at fault for anything. Regarding Miller's opinions, well that is exactly what an interview is - a question and answer session designed to get someone's views and opinions so he did nothing wrong in offering them. And if, in his opinion, he saw a number of reasons for failure then he is entitled to put them all forward when asked. I didn't see him shy away from highlighting his own shortcomings but for people to suggest that no-one else was at fault or to blame for the failure of the last 5 years and that Miller and Wallace should shoulder and acknowledge total culpability is just taking the ostrich approach. To be frank, it is just highlighting and perpetuating the mistakes of so many years past.
-
mm right, the past has nothing to do with it
2 coaches in 10 yrs says stability
its so easy more ppl to keep blaming the past and not taking ownership of the present
wallace thinks he is teh reason the doggies are good now ...what a joke
he had a blueprint 5 yr plan for us,,,,,,,,,lol,,,,,,,,,,,,,,lying bastard
miller is a idiot
and sheehan is in there pocket
stuff them all
-
i personally do not understand what goes on at Richmond behind closed doors.
some on this fourm claim to know.
my question is "who are these "Board" people who apparently have the last call?"
who are these people who keep telling Richmond's big men what to do?
i understand what Miller is trying to say.
even though Miller was not around when Ben Cousins was drafted to Richmond, i believe/think Terry Wallace was told (with Craig Cameron) to recruit Ben Cousins.
i think this example is what i understand Miller is trying to say Wallace had no support, and that these "Others" wanted Ben Cousins.
at the time, i did not want Ben Cousins, but know i am happy that he seems to have his life back on track, and is still loving his football.
so good call from those "Others", but did Terry Wallace/Craig Cameron really want Ben Cousins?
Miller is i think, trying to cover the scars he has left at Richmond.
Terry Wallace can coach, but i do know about his communication with all players.
i believe in "Final Results" and during their time at Richmond, we achieved nothing.
i will say Wallace/Miller have found some players that will play in Richmond's next Premiership.
but those players were obvious choices. (eg: Deledio, Cotchin)
when we do win our 11th Premiership, i will not point to Wallace/Miller at all and if they (which i think they will) come out to have a piece of that cake, then they are really little girls who are just wanting to be seen again and loved again.
accept the good/bad decisions and do not outweigh one another for your liking!
to me, that is saying you have done something wrong and you are trying to cover it up!
:)
-
In regards to Ben Cousins.
You can beleive it or not, but K. Sheedy got Ben to punt road,
Neither Wallace or Cameron had nothing intially to do with it.
Sheedy flew to Perth and thats how it started
So therefore, Wallace was told to draft Ben Cousins
-
In regards to Ben Cousins.
You can beleive it or not, but K. Sheedy got Ben to punt road,
Neither Wallace or Cameron had nothing intially to do with it.
Sheedy flew to Perth and thats how it started
So therefore, Wallace was told to draft Ben Cousins
Yep, i know that.
and i think that is an example of Miller saying "Other" people are helping Wallace with whatever his plan was.
to me Cameron/Wallace were not keen.
i can 100% understand why we did take Ben Cousins, but i do understand what Miller is saying Wallace had to deal with.
maybe Ben Cousins was Terry Wallace's downfall.
drafted Cousins, creating massive pressure to make Finals.
then BANG, Round 1, smashed, Wallace could not deal with Richmond anymore.
:)
-
Why bring an article like this up at this point in time less than three weeks from the start of the season?
Some on hear have said that our problems began in 1983 I say they began at the end of 1976 when our most successful coach ever in Tom Hafey left the club. We were on the path to destruction when we won the flag in 1980 but we had enough pennies in the bank and we were able to prowl with enough aura.
Ian Wilson has alot to answer for. The Hafey saga in 1976 and then the infighting with Barry Richardson in 1984-85 all under his tenure. This article only seems to generate how poor we have been as a club in 35 years and why poo like this gets printed and the media just have no regard for us and print this refuse.
1975 actually Tucker. Roberts, Jackson, Teasdale vs Pitura. Ripped the soul out of the club and we have never recovered.
Oh yes Smokey you are correct. :thumbsup
We stumbled and bumbled our way to a prelim narrowly beating the Skunks and the Filth before North beat us after going back to back in 1973-1974.
The Pitura deal plus 50 gorillas was in effect the 70's version of the trade wars with Collingwood which we saw in the 80's. Made sure we didn't seriously challenge again in 70's losing some quality players for a guy who had played his best two league games as a South Melbourne player against Richmond. Things fell into place in 1980 but we had shot ourselves in the foot for five years before this and in the 29 years after. :help
Ian Wilson started the rot at this club of ours when he was appointed as Pres in 1974. His inabilities as Pres were exposed from 1975 onwards and our aura started to diminish slowly from that time onwards.
-
the simple fact is theis sorry episode in our history goes back to 1999.
You are kidding yourself.
i dont know what period you are talking about but im talking about three men. miller casey and wallace. the period we are talking about on this thread or perhaps ive read this thread wrong. the time period is the end of 99 to the end of 09. the time frame of these three men at our club. is this not a thread about miller wallace and thru association casey as their boss. :o
casey came to the club at a time when we could start to channel money into critical areas. we just went into the black after nearly being extinct just 5 or 6 yrs previously. casey hired miller. miller blackmailed the clubs supporters to get wallace, in 04. these three were a triumvirate and one that survived despite shocking performance and despite what miller says.
hmm i wonder whos kidding himself.
i dont kid myself or about the the perilous state of the rfc club some may put their heads up their arses and pretend all is well but not this little black duck.
just one more thing as well lets not forget gary march was an integral part of the board that sat back and allowed casey and miller free reign board menbers should not be absolved of blame either there were no checks and balances because the board failed to do its job.
i will give march some credit though he seems to have actually learnt something from the casey period.while i can never trust him i can forgive him as long as does not repeat past mistakes.
it took a fair bit of doing to prise casey out of the place and proved just as hard to get rid of miller. after all fool supporters voted miller onto the board while he was head of footy in a way making him accountable to no one.
how any supporters could vote a ticket back into power that plunged the club into such massive debt with such abysmal performce and total lack of direction is beyond me. theres no fool like a richmond fool.
im sure march would have liked to give wallace his marching orders at the end of 08, but again was forced to let matters run their course.
we want to hope we now have processes in place that allows us to sack any under performing employee of the club. including the president if need be.
as i said if wallace march and miller are allowed to paint a false picture it will only reflect poorly on the rfc as a mob who continues to eat their own and this is patently not true.
shockingly run yep we all know that and cant argue it its the truth. but its patently poor form when its those who ran the club so poorly who are painting the picture of having their knees cut of after failing for so long.
-
In regards to Ben Cousins.
You can beleive it or not, but K. Sheedy got Ben to punt road,
Neither Wallace or Cameron had nothing intially to do with it.
Sheedy flew to Perth and thats how it started
So therefore, Wallace was told to draft Ben Cousins
pretty well known that cameron had promised nahas a spot in the psd. cameron was made to look very foolish at times concerning us getting cousins.
-
Answer, we are half way there.
Hardwick and Gale are great appointments.
Leave it at that.
I aint a March person as I have seen him get involved in footy matters in this past which he shouldnt have been involved in, mail is , that hasnt chnaged either. Jury is out on Cameron.
Good to see you're largely on board Jackie.
March may or may not be the best option but he has appointed Gale, presided over Hardwick's appointment and lifted the curtain on Wallet/Miller.
Gary doesn't get all things right but I think he's done a pretty damn good job trying to undo the wreckage from the Casey era and get our club finally pulling in the same direction. That in itself is a monumental task and mistakes will be made along the way but we need to look at the big picture and not nitpick along the journey.
Why bring an article like this up at this point in time less than three weeks from the start of the season?
Simple. Specs has deliberately opened up an old wound at a time when the club is showing more unity and direction than it has in the past 30 years.
It's transparent to me that despite obvious failures Wallet/Miller having left the building some time ago, Sheehan's one sided article is looking to create drama and instability at Richmond once again.
Whether successful or not the Tiges are always big news in the press and Mike knows it better than anyone.
This week Mike will write about us being a basket case, next it'll be that we are finally on the right path. :rollin
It's really grain of salt stuff and quite pathetic really but Mike sure knows the buttons to push to create a sense of uncertainty.
Seems that there's one more thing that's more entertaining for the AFL media than seeing Richmond successful and that's seeing us eat each other alive.
Hopefully Richmond(Admin, coaches, players & supporters) finally band together and look forward to the future rather than dwell on the past and see these articles for what they are.
Moving on..
totally agree :o but lets not forget gary march was a part of that board that sat on its hands and let miller and casey run amock. where was the checks and balances and due diligence do we have the processes in place that will not allow this ti happen again.
anyway as poor as he was as a board member ( just how much blame should he shoulder surely he has to put his hand up as well ) hes been good as a president in very trying circumstances.
maybe its a case hes experienced not what to do and is now going about it the right way.
-
i dont know what period you are talking about but im talking about three men. miller casey and wallace. the period we are talking about on this thread or perhaps ive read this thread wrong. the time period is the end of 99 to the end of 09. the time frame of these three men at our club. is this not a thread about miller wallace and thru association casey as their boss.
The original article was an interview with Miller in which he gave his opinion/view on what were the failings of the club during his time - his time being 02 to 08 so 1999 has no relevance at all. Unless.................................you happen to believe that other factors were involved in the lack of success at the club in which case you should be prepared to accept all the factors over all the years and if that's the case then accept that our problems started a long long time before 1999. And that is my point - Miler and Wallace failed in their charter during their time at the club but they weren't the only reason we failed and they are entitled to point out what they saw as the other reasons. Miller didn't say he was blameless but he did elaborate on the other factors as he saw them and that is entirely reasonable.
casey came to the club at a time when we could start to channel money into critical areas.
Very wrong. The club was in no position to start channeling money into other areas when Casey took over. As you correctly point out, it had just recovered from near bankruptcy to trading in the black but it was in no position of strength to start spending in deficient areas - in fact, the Casey board's cavalier attitude to spending took us straight back to a perilous financial position because we had no financial foundation to embark on such a stupid activity.
hmm i wonder whos kidding himself.
Exactly.
i dont kid myself or about the the perilous state of the rfc club some may put their heads up their behinds and pretend all is well but not this little black duck.
You didn't do a bad job of kidding yourself about the state when Casey took over.
just one more thing as well lets not forget gary march was an integral part of the board that sat back and allowed casey and miller free reign board menbers should not be absolved of blame either there were no checks and balances because the board failed to do its job.
i will give march some credit though he seems to have actually learnt something from the casey period.while i can never trust him i can forgive him as long as does not repeat past mistakes.
it took a fair bit of doing to prise casey out of the place and proved just as hard to get rid of miller. after all fool supporters voted miller onto the board while he was head of footy in a way making him accountable to no one.
how any supporters could vote a ticket back into power that plunged the club into such massive debt with such abysmal performce and total lack of direction is beyond me. theres no fool like a richmond fool.
Gee, forgive me for thinking that you see others as being responsible for the failure also, not just Miller and Wallace. Pretty sure thats what Miller said in his interview too.
we want to hope we now have processes in place that allows us to sack any under performing employee of the club. including the president if need be.
We already have those processes in place. In fact, they have been in place all along. Our problem has been that others have not exercised sound judgment in the use of those processes, and that also includes everyone from the president down to those members who voted for the Casey/Miller ticket and all the managerial staff in between.
Gee, sounds like others might have had some responsibility in getting the club to where it is today. Now let me think.......................where have I heard that before.
as i said if wallace march and miller are allowed to paint a false picture it will only reflect poorly on the rfc as a mob who continues to eat their own and this is patently not true.
shockingly run yep we all know that and cant argue it its the truth. but its patently poor form when its those who ran the club so poorly who are painting the picture of having their knees cut of after failing for so long.
Why is it patently poor form to talk the truth as he sees it? Please point out one part of his interview that is incorrect in fact. Maybe the truth cuts a bit too deep for some to handle or maybe some just have a blind hatred or prejudice and it suits their agenda to single out blame.
-
In regards to Ben Cousins.
You can beleive it or not, but K. Sheedy got Ben to punt road,
Neither Wallace or Cameron had nothing intially to do with it.
Sheedy flew to Perth and thats how it started
So therefore, Wallace was told to draft Ben Cousins
Who told you that Sheeds?
As always I guess it depends on who you talk too..... ;) ;) ;)
-
reading bw the lines or simply interpreting what locked and loaded ready to challenge was supposed to eman, TW was hot to trot after any experienced player, Kerr what have you regardless of the cost, without mad dog miller his wings were clipped...to suggest it was entirely down to sheedy is fanciful
-
Wallace never had a chance because he wasn't up to it.
And he picked up a list that was run into the ground by an totally inept fool.
Greg Miller is/was a footbal relic who was run out of town by the Kangaroos.
And our board has been a joke since the Clinton Casey days.
It is no wonder we have had no success at all for 10 years and limited success for 30.
We are run like a bad suburban club. And that is no secret within the football industry.
-
Look as far as the club leaking is concerned it simply just happens. Theres no poiont getting hung up over it. Our local footy club has 2 boys on AFL lists and both today were at a practice match of ours and enjoyed more than anything telling the stories of NMFC and MFC respectively, some very embarrassing stories as well revolving around some club leaders which raised many laughs. You just cant stop chinese whispers.
Miller/Wallace, well quiet simply they were the stick that broke the camels back. After years of frustration the big white knight was appointed coach (leader/Wallace) with the best recruiter in the land ("I found Carey"/Miller) they sold the club massively with clever marketing spin and predictions. It's not entirely there fault they didn't have a reigning premier to take over they had a 20 year unsuccessful football club.
To say they didn't have the resources or right paddock to do there work is soft as they both knew what they were getting into and both put there egos before there brains.
I'm confused at his comments of a hinted unsettled executive head of the board with the Pres, CEO, Head of FD and Coach not looking after each other. If you've ever seen a tighter dictatorship of Clinton, Terry and Greg I'll eat my shoe. They always had each others back for each mistake after mistake.
They recruited poorly through both types of drafts and failed miserably in developing our younger players physically and mentally.
They relied far to much on our senior players and drafted stars for a higher price then what they were worth and put all time and resources into them instead of a planned blueprint of sustained success.
Wallace accepted a $600,000 yet complained the footy club was so under financed in areas he needed to excel in his job. I'm sorry but anyone who is 100% committed to success who truly believe this to be a factor would pour money into things he needed off his own back or take a pay cut accordingly; Wallace made the decision to do nothing.
All these decisions amount into an utter failure of the regime of Wallace/Miller, they aren't the only ones at fault but they are the faces of the era and take the hits when the blame game is thrown around. You take the good with the bad, if your a Premier the coach is the hero, if you fail the coach is the villain. Its as simple as that.
Respect to Miller in his honesty for admitting his failures, its a lot more than what Terry has ever done or said. The one thing I have a problem is that Greg is a smart man, he knew the percentages were against him yet he still gambled with my footy club, juggling a million jobs because the club wasn't financially stable yet our Player Payments were always topped up and our coach was on mega dollars..
That I'm sorry to say can not hardly easily forgive, simply after admittance at the failure of the regime.
I'm in full support of our current regime and look forward to some honest hard and well earned business and football results.
-
One thing about Terry I hated from the start was his:
"I'm a life member at 2 clubs that I played footy for but the 3rd footy club I have yet to win life membership. That's something I want to achieve."
Just too individualistic and something you'd hear in the NBA or NFL..
Give me a Hardwick sustained success speech every day of the week.
-
I'm in full support of our current regime and look forward to some honest hard and well earned business and football results.
Marvellous post Popelord.
-
And furthermore,dont know why I post on here anymore
I do. Because you cannot exist unless you are the centre of attention
If it's not here, it'll be somewhere else
If not on the internet, you ring up everyone and spread your joy :rollin
Because you can't help yourself
:lol
-
I think all you guys have a lot to contribute to the general discussion about our beloved tiges
Never forget that we all here want the same thing ,and have wanted it for over 30 years now.
I guess the club hasnt provided us a blue print for success in that time so we have all gone in search for it ourselves.
I like all your posts and i like jacks too,for he provides a different perspective,maybe an insiders one,one that we rarely see
-
And furthermore,dont know why I post on here anymore
I do. Because you cannot exist unless you are the centre of attention
If it's not here, it'll be somewhere else
If not on the internet, you ring up everyone and spread your joy :rollin
Because you can't help yourself
:lol
Your a * ing
-
And furthermore,dont know why I post on here anymore
I do. Because you cannot exist unless you are the centre of attention
If it's not here, it'll be somewhere else
If not on the internet, you ring up everyone and spread your joy :rollin
Because you can't help yourself
:lol
Your a F ing imbecile
Looks likes you may have struck a nerve there FNM........
-
And furthermore,dont know why I post on here anymore
I do. Because you cannot exist unless you are the centre of attention
If it's not here, it'll be somewhere else
If not on the internet, you ring up everyone and spread your joy :rollin
Because you can't help yourself
:lol
Your a F ing imbecile
Looks likes you may have struck a nerve there FNM........
He's easily struck
-
TW never had a chance because he wasn't ever up to it. Greg Miller was a relic who was pushed out of the Roos because he couldn't delegate.
The appointments were flawed because we employed football personalities without doing the diligence to see if there was any substance.
I think the president of the time liked it that way.
Richmond has been stuck in a time warp for some time expecting results with very little substance in how we approach building from the ground up.
The AFL industry has seen us as little more than a surburban club for many years.
We might be on our way but it's going to take a long time. Many years.
So if you like taking pot shots, then you'll have plenty of opps to tee off in the next few years.
Greg Miller is about Greg Miller. Those of you who enjoyed that article and find it "honest" can't see the forest for the trees.
-
Those of you who enjoyed that article and find it "honest" can't see the forest for the trees.
Neither can those who think Miller and Wallace are the only ones at fault.
-
TW never had a chance because he wasn't ever up to it. Greg Miller was a relic who was pushed out of the Roos because he couldn't delegate.
The appointments were flawed because we employed football personalities without doing the diligence to see if there was any substance.
I think the president of the time liked it that way.
Richmond has been stuck in a time warp for some time expecting results with very little substance in how we approach building from the ground up.
The AFL industry has seen us as little more than a surburban club for many years.
We might be on our way but it's going to take a long time. Many years.
So if you like taking pot shots, then you'll have plenty of opps to tee off in the next few years.
Greg Miller is about Greg Miller. Those of you who enjoyed that article and find it "honest" can't see the forest for the trees.
No-one of substance has ever tried to knock down our doors and take us to the promise land
You forget we've burned everyone in our past 30 years or so and our reputation wouldn't endear us to any prospective coach/administrator.
We got someone who tried to do the job most of us agreed had to be done, and do it will little financial support
was always going to be a tough job but they failed
I'm still glad they had a go at doing the impossible, because we were going absolutely nowhere fast.
The hilarious part of this is most of us were right behind them until it got easier to jump ship and all of a sudden become martyrs for "another" cause
Just a joke
-
The whole Wallace-Miller blame game smacks of history repeating itself. Once it was the likes of Gieschen, Walls and co. then it was Frawley and now Wallace and Miller are the sacrificial lambs whom all our woes are blamed on. Every time enough becomes enough, the coach is blamed, sacked and sacrificed on the altar and we talk of rebuilding (or "transformations"). What happened has happened and now as a club we need to recognise what legitimately was Wallace/Millers fault and what was a fault of the club itself. Correct those problems that we can and move on with Hardwick and the new coaching staff.
To truly transform we need to correct the underlying deficiencies in management and resourcing at the club to ensure that IF Hardwick & Co. fail it is truly to be laid at their feet, not to have them sacrificed as a scapegoat for the club when we fail to live up to expectations. I believe we have gone a long way to doing just that but time will tell whether Richmond is doomed to have history repeat itself.............AGAIN!
-
I am loathed to say anything nice about Miller and Wallet on their time at Richmond as most of us are.
However the fish rots at the head going back to 1975.
Ian Wilson
Barry Richardson
Allan Bond
Neville Crowe
Leon Daphne
Clinton Casey
Gary March
All have presided over an era where he have had missed opportunities and infighting as well as on field failure has ripped the soul of our club.
Hopefully Gary is getting it right with the appointments of Benny and Dimma.
-
Those of you who enjoyed that article and find it "honest" can't see the forest for the trees.
Neither can those who think Miller and Wallace are the only ones at fault.
I agree miller and Wallace are all tip and no iceberg but they were very well paid to fail so miserably.
I think people are a bit tired of very highly paid executives (football or industry) passing the buck.
By hey if you like your membership wasted on them then feel free to allow them to pass the buck.
-
Those of you who enjoyed that article and find it "honest" can't see the forest for the trees.
Neither can those who think Miller and Wallace are the only ones at fault.
I agree miller and Wallace are all tip and no iceberg but they were very well paid to fail so miserably.
I think people are a bit tired of very highly paid executives (football or industry) passing the buck.
By hey if you like your membership wasted on them then feel free to allow them to pass the buck.
How much they were paid is irrelevant. They weren't solely responsible and any attempt to portray them as such just perpetuates the problem we have had for the last 30 years - looking for scapegoats - putting bandaids over the top of sucking chest wounds. Until we get an administration that is brutally honest with itself and faces up to this then we will keep repeating the mistakes. Six months into his reign Wallace was just as popular as Hardwick is today - are you confident we have now done all we can at the club to ensure a positive change? As far as being tired goes, I think Richmond supporters are far more tired of blaming the coach, only to find that replacing him did nothing to improve the situation. So if you like your membership to go for a continual ride on the RFC coaching merry-go-round then ante up and don't complain when nothing changes.
-
Those of you who enjoyed that article and find it "honest" can't see the forest for the trees.
Neither can those who think Miller and Wallace are the only ones at fault.
I agree miller and Wallace are all tip and no iceberg but they were very well paid to fail so miserably.
I think people are a bit tired of very highly paid executives (football or industry) passing the buck.
By hey if you like your membership wasted on them then feel free to allow them to pass the buck.
And there in lies the whole problem. Because people blame wallace and miller so much, that if one of them points out any deficiencies within the club, heads get buried in the sand and cries of buck passing, defection and making excuses get bandied around.
Read the thread. Not one person has made a claim that wallace and or Miller are blameless. Not One!!
But many people want to dismiss what he has said, just because of personal feelings towards him.
This is why the club has been so poo for so long, because a small number of people are used as scapegoats, while the deeper insidious rot remains. If any of these scapegoats make a claim about problems within the club making their job more difficult it is instantly dismissed as sour grapes and ignored.
The powers that be knew that when things went astray all they needed was a bit of blood letting to keep the simple minded, blood lusting, feral hordes at bay and they could go back to their incompetent ways and would be left alone.
The question has been asked in this thread a number of times, but never answered. What claims has miller made that were wrong?
Lets look at Millers direct quotes only, and ignore an imbecile jounos take on things.
From year one, the biggest concern was (that) the board - and I was part of that board - made a decision not to finance the football division, and that was a mistake,
True or False? Did the board decide not to finance the football dept? If so, was that a mistake or a good decision, in football terms?
We were under-resourced in recruiting and under-resourced in development. Completely
True or False?
We had to pull our head in (as a club), but the footy division suffered and, in the end, so did Terry's reputation. That was the unfortunate by-product of the decision to get the club back on its feet financially
True or false? The part about terry's reputation is an opinion only, so it cant be a true or false answer, butto concentrate on that aspect of the quote ignores the important part. Did the footy department suffer as a result of not getting adequate finance?
If you think back to Terry's first year (2005), we had a $26,000 recruiting budget, no full-time recruiting staff and no development officers.
True or False?
That's a far cry from what the board has put in place for (new coach) Damien Hardwick, which is the right way to go,
True or False? Has the club increased spending in the football deptartment now? If So is that a good thing, or should it have left how it was?
I never felt that Terry enjoyed the total support he needed to be a successful coach
Being a personal opinion, this is hard to gauge and could be an excuse for a mate. His comparisons to the support he recieved at North, who won a premiership are interesting though.
At the Kangaroos, we were blessed with a real camaraderie at the top with people like Ron Casey and Bob Ansett, and good people round you like Denis Pagan and Mark Dawson and Geoff Walsh.
We looked after each other and that's vital to everyone's peace of mind, to each other's sanity
Ron would come in every day and ask, `What can I do for you, pal?'. That was the president's opening line, and I always knew he was in my corner, and that was comforting
I doubt if any one here would be in a position to question the truth of this statment, but it sounds like a culture that breeds success.
Was this the sort of culture within at Richmond?
It's the environment down there that needs all the people at the top to bind together and to become the impregnable force that Geelong has shown with the (Brian) Cooks and the (Frank) Costas and Neil Balme.
Is this a fair enough statement or can a club still be successful without unity at the top?
No, it wasn't as simple as lack of money. It's probably a lack of unity between the big four at a footy club - president, CEO, director of football and coach. I just reckon one of the key elements of success is that impregnable force you (can) create by looking after each other. I don't think that was there.
If you're not confident in yourself, you start protecting yourself and by protecting yourself, you're not protecting each other. It's a survival thing
So, was the unity there at Richmond that enabled the people that mattered to go about their job without having to watch their own back all the time?
All of these things, to me anyway, seem like exactly the sort of problems that will see a club perform as miserably as Richmond have for nearly three decades.
So if you want to believe that everthing has been hunky dory at the club and that only the coach and football manager shoulder all the blame that's fine. If you want to bury your head in the sand and dismiss what seem like reasonable, constructive criticisms from a bloke who has seen how a successful, premiership winning club is run, just because you don't like him, then fine.
I just hope you have a very good saint to pray to every night, because if these claims are true, and are not rectified, then only a miracle will see us emerge from the mire.
Just has no-one in this thread has said Miller and Wallace are not blameless, I am not saying that. I have a very low opinion of wallace, and dont know enough about Miller to make a judgment, but course they carry a fair burden of responsability, but I also believe that the problems go much deeper that just these two individuals.
It should also be noted that Miller does put his hand up for some things and admits he was not up scratch.
From year one, the biggest concern was (that) the board - and I was part of that board - made a decision not to finance the football division, and that was a mistake
There's no doubt I took on too many things (at Richmond). I probably did a lot of things OK, but I'll be the first to say I wasn't the best footy director
I know it wont enough to keep the lynch mobs at bay, but if he was part of the problem, then that part of the problem is now gone.
But do the other parts of the problem remain in place still, or do you honestly believe that simply sacking him and Wallace will deliver us utopia at last?
-
From year one, the biggest concern was (that) the board - and I was part of that board - made a decision not to finance the football division, and that was a mistake,
True or False? Did the board decide not to finance the football dept? If so, was that a mistake or a good decision, in football terms?
Quote
We were under-resourced in recruiting and under-resourced in development. Completely
True or False?
Quote
We had to pull our head in (as a club), but the footy division suffered and, in the end, so did Terry's reputation. That was the unfortunate by-product of the decision to get the club back on its feet financially
True or false? The part about terry's reputation is an opinion only, so it cant be a true or false answer, butto concentrate on that aspect of the quote ignores the important part. Did the footy department suffer as a result of not getting adequate finance?
Quote
If you think back to Terry's first year (2005), we had a $26,000 recruiting budget, no full-time recruiting staff and no development officers.
True or False?
Quote
That's a far cry from what the board has put in place for (new coach) Damien Hardwick, which is the right way to go,
True or False? Has the club increased spending in the football deptartment now? If So is that a good thing, or should it have left how it was?
Quote
I never felt that Terry enjoyed the total support he needed to be a successful coach
Being a personal opinion, this is hard to gauge and could be an excuse for a mate. His comparisons to the support he recieved at North, who won a premiership are interesting though.
I will try and answer the above.
The footy dept is financed by the board and by influential supporters and coterie groups.
Can tell you that money for boxing rings ,gym equipment is donated and financed through supporters and the club.
Can tell you Collingwood have a group called "' Club 42 "" who raise at least 50,000 a year to support the footy dept for special activites.
During Millers reign, he had 13 part-time recruiting people throughout Australia. All part time , but they covered all relevant competitions.
The club also had access to Champion Data Stats for TAC and tapes of all games were readily available at the club at 12 noon the following Monday. .
if Terry was worried about finances, he should of tipped some money back in. Common knowledge that most coaches pay out of the own pocket for support staff to ensure there success. If Terry was getting $600,000, why wouldnt he tip 5% back into ensure all areas were covered ?????? Would be tax deductable one would think as well, as it would be an expense.
In 2005, most clubs had only one recruiting officer. We had Greg Miller oversee this process.
As for the footy apartment having no money, Terry had enough sponsors on his shirt to ensure there was ample money being bought in.
In my opinion, neither were accountable and neither carried out the duties to an acceptable standard.
I thought Terry would of been axed after his 3rd year.
The playing group suffered during the past 5 years as they were not coached by a coach who could develop players.
HUGE ISSUE !
-
Might also add the influential supporters are funding the current PNG recruiting drive as well.
-
The issue at hand jack is not whether or not Wallace takes respsonability, but the claims that miller made, even if he did make them in an attempt to absolve TW and himself of blame.
So reading into your post, the parts where you have attempted to address some of these claims, you seem to be saying that you believe the football department was adequately resourced in the last 5 years?
-
The issue at hand jack is not whether or not Wallace takes respsonability, but the claims that miller made, even if he did make them in an attempt to absolve TW and himself of blame.
So reading into your post, the parts where you have attempted to address some of these claims, you seem to be saying that you believe the football department was adequately resourced in the last 5 years?
YES, it was adequately resourced to Terrys requirements, but its all too easy for the people concerned to say it wasnt, I rest my case
-
The issue at hand jack is not whether or not Wallace takes respsonability, but the claims that miller made, even if he did make them in an attempt to absolve TW and himself of blame.
So reading into your post, the parts where you have attempted to address some of these claims, you seem to be saying that you believe the football department was adequately resourced in the last 5 years?
YES, it was adequately resourced to Terrys requirements, but its all too easy for the people concerned to say it wasnt, I rest my case
You've lost your mind
-
The issue at hand jack is not whether or not Wallace takes respsonability, but the claims that miller made, even if he did make them in an attempt to absolve TW and himself of blame.
So reading into your post, the parts where you have attempted to address some of these claims, you seem to be saying that you believe the football department was adequately resourced in the last 5 years?
YES, it was adequately resourced to Terrys requirements, but its all too easy for the people concerned to say it wasnt, I rest my case
You've lost your mind
You cannot add anything constructive to this discussion as you have no idea and basically not intelligent enough.
All you want to do is continue to bag me.
GROW UP
-
roflmaosmclmb @ when I saw this in the paper I knew ! & I just contributed - :rollin
Who gives a flying - new times ahead.
& just for the sake of it.
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:nRiIrlzKmJDQ7M:http://starbozz.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/longest-bridge-002.jpg)
-
Who gives a flying - new times ahead.
Best thing said in the entire thread.
-
i dont know what period you are talking about but im talking about three men. miller casey and wallace. the period we are talking about on this thread or perhaps ive read this thread wrong. the time period is the end of 99 to the end of 09. the time frame of these three men at our club. is this not a thread about miller wallace and thru association casey as their boss.
The original article was an interview with Miller in which he gave his opinion/view on what were the failings of the club during his time - his time being 02 to 08 so 1999 has no relevance at all. Unless.................................you happen to believe that other factors were involved in the lack of success at the club in which case you should be prepared to accept all the factors over all the years and if that's the case then accept that our problems started a long long time before 1999. And that is my point - Miler and Wallace failed in their charter during their time at the club but they weren't the only reason we failed and they are entitled to point out what they saw as the other reasons. Miller didn't say he was blameless but he did elaborate on the other factors as he saw them and that is entirely reasonable.
casey came to the club at a time when we could start to channel money into critical areas.
Very wrong. The club was in no position to start channeling money into other areas when Casey took over. As you correctly point out, it had just recovered from near bankruptcy to trading in the black but it was in no position of strength to start spending in deficient areas - in fact, the Casey board's cavalier attitude to spending took us straight back to a perilous financial position because we had no financial foundation to embark on such a stupid activity.
hmm i wonder whos kidding himself.
Exactly.
i dont kid myself or about the the perilous state of the rfc club some may put their heads up their behinds and pretend all is well but not this little black duck.
You didn't do a bad job of kidding yourself about the state when Casey took over.
just one more thing as well lets not forget gary march was an integral part of the board that sat back and allowed casey and miller free reign board menbers should not be absolved of blame either there were no checks and balances because the board failed to do its job.
i will give march some credit though he seems to have actually learnt something from the casey period.while i can never trust him i can forgive him as long as does not repeat past mistakes.
it took a fair bit of doing to prise casey out of the place and proved just as hard to get rid of miller. after all fool supporters voted miller onto the board while he was head of footy in a way making him accountable to no one.
how any supporters could vote a ticket back into power that plunged the club into such massive debt with such abysmal performce and total lack of direction is beyond me. theres no fool like a richmond fool.
Gee, forgive me for thinking that you see others as being responsible for the failure also, not just Miller and Wallace. Pretty sure thats what Miller said in his interview too.
we want to hope we now have processes in place that allows us to sack any under performing employee of the club. including the president if need be.
We already have those processes in place. In fact, they have been in place all along. Our problem has been that others have not exercised sound judgment in the use of those processes, and that also includes everyone from the president down to those members who voted for the Casey/Miller ticket and all the managerial staff in between.
Gee, sounds like others might have had some responsibility in getting the club to where it is today. Now let me think.......................where have I heard that before.
as i said if wallace march and miller are allowed to paint a false picture it will only reflect poorly on the rfc as a mob who continues to eat their own and this is patently not true.
shockingly run yep we all know that and cant argue it its the truth. but its patently poor form when its those who ran the club so poorly who are painting the picture of having their knees cut of after failing for so long.
Why is it patently poor form to talk the truth as he sees it? Please point out one part of his interview that is incorrect in fact. Maybe the truth cuts a bit too deep for some to handle or maybe some just have a blind hatred or prejudice and it suits their agenda to single out blame.
lol so you are basically agreeing with most of what i say but arguing the point sheesh. a man who wants his cake and eat it to. your a funny man bandit.
lets see what actually do we disagree on here. the time frame.
firstly of course everyone agrees we have been crap since 82 but in particular the age of the nd 86 onwards. just my opinion.
so the article is about millers time at the club. so you say 02 to 08 and you would be correct but the fact is miller and wallace came to the club under the casey tenure they were intrinsically linked without casey there would be no miller. you may think it not relevant to go back to 2000 but i certainly do. the state of the list the state of the clubs finances are all relevant for the entire casy tenure. its the reason why they appointed miller in the first place. so yeah i have gone back a couple of extra yrs. shoot me.
hmm another thing we have disagreed on is weather the club was in position to increase spending in critical areas.
the answer to that is yes. daphne was filthy he was forced out under the lack of funding for the footy dept pretext.
if daphne had stayed i have no doubt the footy dept would have got more spending. it would have been the start.not the be all but a start. the club was out of debt it was in a position to start spending more in the critical areas. daphne had actually done the hard yards and gone thru the pain only to have the rug pulled out from under him.
you are right casey and miller blew thousands sheesh miller went over budget 800k one season and we had nothing to show for it.
hmm what else oh yeah. poor form. lets just say if miller has said it as he sees it, it does not necesarily make it right now does it. hence the replies on this entire thread.
you may disagree but it is a bit rich when the principle player and main man responsible for on field performance and the footy dept, blames the lack of loyalty and lack of money for his poor performance .well i will set the record straight. this bloke recieved more loylaty than probably any other administrator in our history from not only his own board but the supporters as well. he along with casey wasted that much money in the early days it was not funny. it was primarily because of casey / miller that later on we had no money yet he uses this as an excuse.
hmm what else oh yeh i think most agree you do indeed kid yourself. ::)
anyway i think with every thing else we have said exactly the same thing but you have your knickers in a knot for some reason.
i think once again you need to read a little more closely what has been said.
finally for me 2000 to 2008 casey miller and wallace are the ones MOSTLY responsible for the debacle of a decade i dont believe anyone has said they were soley responsible yet your on your high horse arguing it.
for me what its worth the article paints a picture of dissent in the ranks a lack of loyalty and no money and i disagree. there was money when he first came and the board certainly stuck fat as a whole despite the the atrocious performance both on and of the field.
of course these three have to shoulder most of the blame they were the key players.
had to lol at miller still trying to live of the back of his recruiting carey. he seems to still think hes some sort of guru when it comes to spotting talent. its because he was so poor in this area that we are stuffed onfield today. sheesh he over spent 800k yet none went to recruiting.
-
Your right Claw, the money was there.
They paid Terry $600k and even the footy manager ( Terrys Best friend ) was on a reported $150k a year for what ?? issuing match days tickets, :banghead.
I could pour the bucket but I wont, as I will get shot down by internet imbeciles.
They spent the money in the wrong areas, end of story
-
Wallace was and is the biggest snipe who ever coached an AFL team. He screwed us over with his hiring of anyone under 60kg's and constant changing of game plans.
His best work was in his final game. When one sits down to judge his character they should only hear how he wanted to coach his last game against the Buldogs, instead of bowing out. Another selfish moment in the life of this clown.
That being said im over it i have had enough of hearing from these 2 stuffwits MIller and Wallace.
We have a new plan now new leaders new players and i believe the signing of Brendan Gale will turn out to be the best thing for the RFC.
-
lol so you are basically agreeing with most of what i say but arguing the point sheesh. a man who wants his cake and eat it to. your a funny man bandit.
lets see what actually do we disagree on here. the time frame.
firstly of course everyone agrees we have been crap since 82 but in particular the age of the nd 86 onwards. just my opinion.
so the article is about millers time at the club. so you say 02 to 08 and you would be correct but the fact is miller and wallace came to the club under the casey tenure they were intrinsically linked without casey there would be no miller. you may think it not relevant to go back to 2000 but i certainly do. the state of the list the state of the clubs finances are all relevant for the entire casy tenure. its the reason why they appointed miller in the first place. so yeah i have gone back a couple of extra yrs. shoot me.
hmm another thing we have disagreed on is weather the club was in position to increase spending in critical areas.
the answer to that is yes. daphne was filthy he was forced out under the lack of funding for the footy dept pretext.
if daphne had stayed i have no doubt the footy dept would have got more spending. it would have been the start.not the be all but a start. the club was out of debt it was in a position to start spending more in the critical areas. daphne had actually done the hard yards and gone thru the pain only to have the rug pulled out from under him.
you are right casey and miller blew thousands sheesh miller went over budget 800k one season and we had nothing to show for it.
hmm what else oh yeah. poor form. lets just say if miller has said it as he sees it, it does not necesarily make it right now does it. hence the replies on this entire thread.
you may disagree but it is a bit rich when the principle player and main man responsible for on field performance and the footy dept, blames the lack of loyalty and lack of money for his poor performance .well i will set the record straight. this bloke recieved more loylaty than probably any other administrator in our history from not only his own board but the supporters as well. he along with casey wasted that much money in the early days it was not funny. it was primarily because of casey / miller that later on we had no money yet he uses this as an excuse.
hmm what else oh yeh i think most agree you do indeed kid yourself. ::)
anyway i think with every thing else we have said exactly the same thing but you have your knickers in a knot for some reason.
i think once again you need to read a little more closely what has been said.
finally for me 2000 to 2008 casey miller and wallace are the ones MOSTLY responsible for the debacle of a decade i dont believe anyone has said they were soley responsible yet your on your high horse arguing it.
for me what its worth the article paints a picture of dissent in the ranks a lack of loyalty and no money and i disagree. there was money when he first came and the board certainly stuck fat as a whole despite the the atrocious performance both on and of the field.
of course these three have to shoulder most of the blame they were the key players.
had to lol at miller still trying to live of the back of his recruiting carey. he seems to still think hes some sort of guru when it comes to spotting talent. its because he was so poor in this area that we are stuffed onfield today. sheesh he over spent 800k yet none went to recruiting.
The only thing we agree on is that Miller and Wallace failed.
Now as to reading a little more closely what was said. I posted originally that in my opinion the article was an honest appraisal by Miller of things as he saw them, nothing more. Then, I had all the Miller and Wallace bashers argue the point with me that he wasn't honest, just trying to shift blame, protect Wallace, cover his tracks, cause global warming etc. So, in defence of my point I asked a simple question and I will re-ask it now for those who have trouble with reading and remembering posts - point out one error in fact in Miller's interview, just one. So far the silence has been deafening on that.
As for your point about the money being available - nope, wrong again. After 12 straight years of showing a profit (most of them very small in the first few of these), the Casey board showed a net loss over his first 2 years - well before Miller came on the scene. We weren't in a great position financially when Casey took over and to immediately start spending/losing was financial disaster as hindsight tells only too well. I actually laughed at how you resorted to blaming Miller for the losses after he came on board. What, Miller had the final say on all football department expenditure, the board or CEO had no say in this at all? :scream
And as for your point about loyalty? The knives were out for Miller and Wallace from within the club and some supporters a long long time before they were eventually removed so from Miller's perspective there can be no doubt the loyalty was not there - he says that when he compares it to other clubs, how the "big 4" have each others back regardless. It's common knowledge that March didn't have Miller or Wallace's back for at least a couple of years prior to their departure so no loyalty there I'm afraid.
Me arguing the point? Nope, just waiting for someone to point out one factual error in Miller's article.
-
"If you think back to Terry's first year (2005), we had a $26,000 recruiting budget, no full-time recruiting staff and no development officers."
Then when we did get in Francis Jackson, Miller and Wallet (apart from 2006) traded away picks and gave Jackson about 3 picks to use each year.
-
Those of you who enjoyed that article and find it "honest" can't see the forest for the trees.
Neither can those who think Miller and Wallace are the only ones at fault.
I agree miller and Wallace are all tip and no iceberg but they were very well paid to fail so miserably.
I think people are a bit tired of very highly paid executives (football or industry) passing the buck.
By hey if you like your membership wasted on them then feel free to allow them to pass the buck.
How much they were paid is irrelevant. They weren't solely responsible and any attempt to portray them as such just perpetuates the problem we have had for the last 30 years - looking for scapegoats - putting bandaids over the top of sucking chest wounds. Until we get an administration that is brutally honest with itself and faces up to this then we will keep repeating the mistakes. Six months into his reign Wallace was just as popular as Hardwick is today - are you confident we have now done all we can at the club to ensure a positive change? As far as being tired goes, I think Richmond supporters are far more tired of blaming the coach, only to find that replacing him did nothing to improve the situation. So if you like your membership to go for a continual ride on the RFC coaching merry-go-round then ante up and don't complain when nothing changes.
Smoke,
The problem I have is the perception that was created and drilled by Wallace/Miller. The announced results and didn't achieve them in 5 years. And in 3 of those years were further than anyone away from those goals.
Wallace continued to pump up everyones tyres refusing to say anything was wrong even after Nathan Brown broke his leg. Prior to this we were heading into finals something that Wallace all but gaureenteed within 5 years.
With a half bottom out Wallace pushed the gameplan of having a mediocre list to miss finals for 5 years in a row with very few unearthed players above pick 20. Players were drafted were continually seen as not good enough for a debut let alone a career which is a failing in development that stops with the coach.
Wallace failed miserably with the 5 well paid years he had at the club. I liked Wallace and was disappointed how he was treated in his axing as I thought as a club we were past the whole dumping the coach thing.
Wallace is not the reason we've been unsuccessful for 20 years nor is Miller, nor the only people responsible for having a horrible list and being unsuccessful for 5 years. They are at fault for claiming to take the club to the highest point and failing miserably by not achieveing at least getting as close as half way.
In the past 5 years:
The club lost valuable people,
The board was divided with Miller at the club,
The drafting has been extremely poor with high picks amounting to nothing and mature players taking in draft over teenagers,
Wallaces game plan of run and carry to beat the flood was made defunct with the rolling zone and had no plan B,
He instilled a sideways "basketball" mentality,
Foot skills weren't a priority in all players development,
The players had a mini revault to get rid of the coach.
Sure we had no resources and the job was an extremely tough one. It didn't help with all these mistakes that were made and claiming that the club was flying. The Hardwick quiet approach and letting on field success speak for itself is a much smarter approach then the spin that we've recieved as fans for the past half a decade.
-
From year one, the biggest concern was (that) the board - and I was part of that board - made a decision not to finance the football division, and that was a mistake,
True or False? Did the board decide not to finance the football dept? If so, was that a mistake or a good decision, in football terms?
Quote
We were under-resourced in recruiting and under-resourced in development. Completely
True or False?
Quote
We had to pull our head in (as a club), but the footy division suffered and, in the end, so did Terry's reputation. That was the unfortunate by-product of the decision to get the club back on its feet financially
True or false? The part about terry's reputation is an opinion only, so it cant be a true or false answer, butto concentrate on that aspect of the quote ignores the important part. Did the footy department suffer as a result of not getting adequate finance?
Quote
If you think back to Terry's first year (2005), we had a $26,000 recruiting budget, no full-time recruiting staff and no development officers.
True or False?
Quote
That's a far cry from what the board has put in place for (new coach) Damien Hardwick, which is the right way to go,
True or False? Has the club increased spending in the football deptartment now? If So is that a good thing, or should it have left how it was?
Quote
I never felt that Terry enjoyed the total support he needed to be a successful coach
Being a personal opinion, this is hard to gauge and could be an excuse for a mate. His comparisons to the support he recieved at North, who won a premiership are interesting though.
I will try and answer the above.
The footy dept is financed by the board and by influential supporters and coterie groups.
Can tell you that money for boxing rings ,gym equipment is donated and financed through supporters and the club.
Can tell you Collingwood have a group called "' Club 42 "" who raise at least 50,000 a year to support the footy dept for special activites.
During Millers reign, he had 13 part-time recruiting people throughout Australia. All part time , but they covered all relevant competitions.
The club also had access to Champion Data Stats for TAC and tapes of all games were readily available at the club at 12 noon the following Monday. .
if Terry was worried about finances, he should of tipped some money back in. Common knowledge that most coaches pay out of the own pocket for support staff to ensure there success. If Terry was getting $600,000, why wouldnt he tip 5% back into ensure all areas were covered ?????? Would be tax deductable one would think as well, as it would be an expense.
In 2005, most clubs had only one recruiting officer. We had Greg Miller oversee this process.
As for the footy apartment having no money, Terry had enough sponsors on his shirt to ensure there was ample money being bought in.
In my opinion, neither were accountable and neither carried out the duties to an acceptable standard.
I thought Terry would of been axed after his 3rd year.
The playing group suffered during the past 5 years as they were not coached by a coach who could develop players.
HUGE ISSUE !
I can understand where your coming from Jack.
I do however realise that the Miller/Wallace combo is not the full reason for the lack of success for the last 30 years. But no-one can argue against the fact that Miller Wallace and the whole regime at the time gamblled with our footy club took unsubstatiated risks and failed. This is unforgivable and the treatment IMO has been fair and warranted towards them both.
Professionally Miller and Wallace failed in far to many areas of there jobs to be given a free pass out of the club. It's part and parcel of running a business. If a GM or CEO of any white collar business failed to perform in a 5 year reign he'd be shoved out the door and talked about poorly by the company.
When you fail you cop accordingly.
-
lol so you are basically agreeing with most of what i say but arguing the point sheesh. a man who wants his cake and eat it to. your a funny man bandit.
lets see what actually do we disagree on here. the time frame.
firstly of course everyone agrees we have been crap since 82 but in particular the age of the nd 86 onwards. just my opinion.
so the article is about millers time at the club. so you say 02 to 08 and you would be correct but the fact is miller and wallace came to the club under the casey tenure they were intrinsically linked without casey there would be no miller. you may think it not relevant to go back to 2000 but i certainly do. the state of the list the state of the clubs finances are all relevant for the entire casy tenure. its the reason why they appointed miller in the first place. so yeah i have gone back a couple of extra yrs. shoot me.
hmm another thing we have disagreed on is weather the club was in position to increase spending in critical areas.
the answer to that is yes. daphne was filthy he was forced out under the lack of funding for the footy dept pretext.
if daphne had stayed i have no doubt the footy dept would have got more spending. it would have been the start.not the be all but a start. the club was out of debt it was in a position to start spending more in the critical areas. daphne had actually done the hard yards and gone thru the pain only to have the rug pulled out from under him.
you are right casey and miller blew thousands sheesh miller went over budget 800k one season and we had nothing to show for it.
hmm what else oh yeah. poor form. lets just say if miller has said it as he sees it, it does not necesarily make it right now does it. hence the replies on this entire thread.
you may disagree but it is a bit rich when the principle player and main man responsible for on field performance and the footy dept, blames the lack of loyalty and lack of money for his poor performance .well i will set the record straight. this bloke recieved more loylaty than probably any other administrator in our history from not only his own board but the supporters as well. he along with casey wasted that much money in the early days it was not funny. it was primarily because of casey / miller that later on we had no money yet he uses this as an excuse.
hmm what else oh yeh i think most agree you do indeed kid yourself. ::)
anyway i think with every thing else we have said exactly the same thing but you have your knickers in a knot for some reason.
i think once again you need to read a little more closely what has been said.
finally for me 2000 to 2008 casey miller and wallace are the ones MOSTLY responsible for the debacle of a decade i dont believe anyone has said they were soley responsible yet your on your high horse arguing it.
for me what its worth the article paints a picture of dissent in the ranks a lack of loyalty and no money and i disagree. there was money when he first came and the board certainly stuck fat as a whole despite the the atrocious performance both on and of the field.
of course these three have to shoulder most of the blame they were the key players.
had to lol at miller still trying to live of the back of his recruiting carey. he seems to still think hes some sort of guru when it comes to spotting talent. its because he was so poor in this area that we are stuffed onfield today. sheesh he over spent 800k yet none went to recruiting.
The only thing we agree on is that Miller and Wallace failed.
Now as to reading a little more closely what was said. I posted originally that in my opinion the article was an honest appraisal by Miller of things as he saw them, nothing more. Then, I had all the Miller and Wallace bashers argue the point with me that he wasn't honest, just trying to shift blame, protect Wallace, cover his tracks, cause global warming etc. So, in defence of my point I asked a simple question and I will re-ask it now for those who have trouble with reading and remembering posts - point out one error in fact in Miller's interview, just one. So far the silence has been deafening on that.
As for your point about the money being available - nope, wrong again. After 12 straight years of showing a profit (most of them very small in the first few of these), the Casey board showed a net loss over his first 2 years - well before Miller came on the scene. We weren't in a great position financially when Casey took over and to immediately start spending/losing was financial disaster as hindsight tells only too well. I actually laughed at how you resorted to blaming Miller for the losses after he came on board. What, Miller had the final say on all football department expenditure, the board or CEO had no say in this at all? :scream
And as for your point about loyalty? The knives were out for Miller and Wallace from within the club and some supporters a long long time before they were eventually removed so from Miller's perspective there can be no doubt the loyalty was not there - he says that when he compares it to other clubs, how the "big 4" have each others back regardless. It's common knowledge that March didn't have Miller or Wallace's back for at least a couple of years prior to their departure so no loyalty there I'm afraid.
Me arguing the point? Nope, just waiting for someone to point out one factual error in Miller's article.
I liked the article and want to believe everthing is true, heartfelt and fact. I believe it is to my knowledge.
Unfortunatly with the history of spin, handballing the blame and constant band aiding who knows whats fact and what is spin.
-
Smoke,
The problem I have is the perception that was created and drilled by Wallace/Miller. The announced results and didn't achieve them in 5 years. And in 3 of those years were further than anyone away from those goals.
Wallace continued to pump up everyones tyres refusing to say anything was wrong even after Nathan Brown broke his leg. Prior to this we were heading into finals something that Wallace all but gaureenteed within 5 years.
With a half bottom out Wallace pushed the gameplan of having a mediocre list to miss finals for 5 years in a row with very few unearthed players above pick 20. Players were drafted were continually seen as not good enough for a debut let alone a career which is a failing in development that stops with the coach.
Wallace failed miserably with the 5 well paid years he had at the club. I liked Wallace and was disappointed how he was treated in his axing as I thought as a club we were past the whole dumping the coach thing.
Wallace is not the reason we've been unsuccessful for 20 years nor is Miller, nor the only people responsible for having a horrible list and being unsuccessful for 5 years. They are at fault for claiming to take the club to the highest point and failing miserably by not achieveing at least getting as close as half way.
In the past 5 years:
The club lost valuable people,
The board was divided with Miller at the club,
The drafting has been extremely poor with high picks amounting to nothing and mature players taking in draft over teenagers,
Wallaces game plan of run and carry to beat the flood was made defunct with the rolling zone and had no plan B,
He instilled a sideways "basketball" mentality,
Foot skills weren't a priority in all players development,
The players had a mini revault to get rid of the coach.
Sure we had no resources and the job was an extremely tough one. It didn't help with all these mistakes that were made and claiming that the club was flying. The Hardwick quiet approach and letting on field success speak for itself is a much smarter approach then the spin that we've recieved as fans for the past half a decade.
Yep, I have no issue with any of that. I agree that Miller and Wallace were failures but my original point was that Miller's article was an honest appraisal, nothing more. It was the need to defend that point that took this whole thread to a blame exercise but as far as how they both failed and to what extent, you are spot on.
-
Bump
Anongst all of the angst there was so much hope...
Richmond FC, the more things change the more things stay the same. :clapping :rollin :clapping