One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: TigerTime on April 22, 2009, 01:13:37 AM
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WHAT HAS TERRY REALLY ACHIEVED IN 5 PRESEASONS AND 4 YEARS AND 4 ROUNDS OF HIS COACHING STINT.
his win loss record is worse than spuds or equal to it, we know he cleamed possum poo and painten a room or 2, but what has he really achieved
his 5 year plan has proved only one thing , that he is a great salesman and has bluffed us all.
if i have missed something positive that he has done to make us a better team and play damn good consistant football, please enlighten me?
cos i have been reflecting over the past 4 years , not 4 weeks, and we have achieved squat
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We have a young core for a new coach to build at least around which we didn't have in 2004. Mistakes at the draft table were made obviously and the list still lacks enough class but at least we now have some young stuff 22 y.o. and under to build upon.
The new coach will also have access to far better resources both in terms of recruiting and training (redevelopments at Punt Rd and Craigieburn). Hopefully that means now we'll have multiple scouts at TAC games and alike giving various opinions and individual stuff on potential draftees rather than just the coach and the Club leaving it to Miller or Beck to be one-man bands which lead to the mistakes at the draft table 4,5,6 ... 10+ years ago. The more faith you have in your recruiting department to deliver then bigger the broom the new coach can use on our list.
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TW had the courage to retire serviceable players like Gasper and Andy Kellaway for the greater good of the team.TW had the courage to play our best forward on the wing when the vulchers were circling last year....all for the greater good and an eye for the future.Its a massive shame that our young forwards are not stepping up at the moment.
I agree that our recruiting has been very ordinary during his time.Deledio and Cotchin were no brainers and fell into our lap.The term "JON' might be used in future generations to decribe a player who was a high draft pick and turned out to be a dud.The 2004 draft when we had 5 picks in the first 20 was Richmonds big chance and it looks like we blew it.But is it all TWs fault or the RFC for not having the right recruiting personnel.
Spuds and TWs coaching records are very similar but you would have to agree that Danny took over a much more competitive unit than TW with players like Knights Campbell Daffy Richo Gale Brodrick Gasper both Kellaways all (close) in their prime.Plus a young gun like Ottens.
I am happy for TW to fall on his sword.Finals or Bust.5 years is long enough.Dont sack him just to appease the hysterical masses because things look bleak after round 4.
An interesting question is what happens to TW if we do a "Brisbane Bears 95" and make the 8 winning only 10 games for the year.
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still no answers
tw has done squat in reality, how can ppl say he has left us with a better list tan before when our win/loss ratio is no different
we are left with a listwith different names but equak bad performance
he has not left us a list to work with , just another list to rebuild
im thinking about this without my rfc hat on, obviously some people cannot do that
5 years bloody wasted :banghead :banghead :banghead
at least danny got us into 1 finals series
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You give the coach too much credit/criticism! What bdid Robert Walls do, what did Allen Jeans do? KB? Geisch? Its the players and the culture that does this to clubs, not a coach who in reality has been there for a whole 5 minutes in the grander schemem of things!
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name one coach that has gone to Subiaco twice in 1 year and come home with wins totalling over 150pts?
:shh
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still no answers
You got answers, you just didn't like them
Gee you remind me of someone ;)
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OK GRANNTED, we have gone interstate twice in one year and defeated the eagles and freo ,,,but they were at their worst, how can i remain positive that terry has been a success because he pulled a win in perth twice, pulled off two miracle wins, one v the crows and one v the cats at kardinia park.
now im not talking about the past, not talking about jeans, northey , kb the giesh, walls etc
im talking about here and now and about terry, now i have been a big terry fan but my tune changed v the dees because i started thinking about things without my heart and passion , just being realistic
now being realistic were are rock bottom again, just where we were when terry started
facts are , terry has achieved very very little, if not anything at all
the truth often hurts
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still no answers
You got answers, you just didn't like them
Gee you remind me of someone ;)
im just looking for hope, and be honest , if those answers are good enough for you after 4 plus years , thats fine. But it does not wash me me, those answers dont really give terry a pass mark, nor the players.
i just find it really frustrating that we have to start rebuilding all over again, and it pains me to say that the last 5 years have been a waste , i was so optimistic and ecstatic when terry came on board, but now i feel the same way i did when danny was in his last year .
is it wrong to search for anything that has been positive and a winner that terry has done, cos right now i cant think of many
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TigerTime, TW is an easy target but the damage was done before and around him. Our recruiters should shoulder a lot of the blame for our current list as should our current leaders. TW should be held accountable fore his tactics and style of play which I feel are too advanced for our players atm.
We have had multiple discussions on this board about the sheer amount of players that TW has turned over in his time at the club and the amount of games he has invested into them. Many other teams have a young list but Richmond has more young players with AFL experience than any other club.
The reason for that is two fold, one - in an attempt to fast track their development and find out who would make it and two - because they were better options than the older players they were replacing. TW could and can only work with the players he is given but given the state of the list when he arrived and then the players he was given afterwards, he has done all he can to build a platform for future success.
One thing I do blame TW for is our game plan. There is a reason we have the lowest tackle count in the league, struggle with the 1% and appear very individualistic. Terry's game plan revolves around winning the hard-ball and clearnaces and quick movement of the ball into the forwardline. What is fails to achieve his the offensive defense that the ball carrier needs, particularly now with the rolling zone, to create space to execute unpressured kicks and handballs. The reason we turn the ball over so much, have so many clangers, rush our desposals and look for shorter options is because we leave the ball carrier unprotected.
TW needs to encourage (which I believe he is starting to do more now) our players to shepherd, block and protect the ball carrier then they would have more time and space to look for longer options and deliver the ball more skillfully to their target. This is a problem for our team.
The other big factor in our lack of success is ourll 'culture' which is passed down from the leadership group to the younger players each year. Our leaders are leading the team but leading them in the wrong way and modelling to them the wrong attitude and style of play.
For all his skills and level headedness, Bowden is a blight on our side. He plays completely the opposite to which TW wants the team too - holds up the ball, waits until the opposition have settled, looks for the uncontested target then runs forward to recieve the ball again while the opposition set up comfortably further up the ground. Bowden is not a risk taker which is required essential in todays game and while he may rack up the uncontested possessions and recieve the handballs as he runs to assist the ball carrier, he will never try and break the lines, block, shepherd, tackle or do any of the 1%. He is a strong personality but he is a poor player and poor leader.
Richo is another individualistic player as is Brown and Simmonds. We need good leadership from players of the ilk of Hodge, Voss etc. I hope someone such as Cogs can regain form because he would be the type we need. If Riewoldt and Cotchin can step up soon they could also be just the type of leaders we need, I just hope they don't catch the Richmond 'culture-disease' before that time.
So while you might say what has TW done in his 5 years at the club and point to our win-loss ratio and form of the kids at the moment, the facts remain that TW has less to do with our current predictament than our leadership and past recruiters.
If we are lacking confidence and the leaders give the team no hope and don't support the coach's message then who's fault is that.
I still support TW but just wish he would change that game plan before it is too late.
Stripes
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Stripes, you make some very good and valid points.
so what do we do from here, do we keep going as we are?
do we make a complet overhaul
- new board
- new footy dep
- strip the list down as much as possible and start a new team so to speak
do we extend Terrys contract now for two more years?
what is frustrating is that i feel that no matter what the rfc do, we are damned if we do, we are damned if we dont!
i think the club has lost direction and its way again, how do we fix this, stuffed if i know
a start will be to beat north on the weekend
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Think you need to watch a replay of the Richmond vs Melbourne game Stripes
The problem is our players are not running hard enough & are giving the ball off to players standing idle or too close.
Opposition chases the player with the ball then runs round his opponant & tackles the reciever of the ball from the player he chased in the first place its so easy to read.
All other clubs dont have the problems we have in blooding new players or making excuses, just look at Collingwood, Hawthorn, Carlton, Adelaide to name a few so stop making excuses about drafts & lists. Deledio won the B&F last year but is clearly not your gun player in the league & be lucky to make the top 50. The blame clearly lays with the coaching & fitness staff point blank.
Wallace dont know how to coach in today football & his been found out. He plays the same gameplan every week.
If he wanted to changed the style he would have but our players have been coached backwards.
Why stuff around with chip kicking making mistakes ??? why not kick the ball long & take them on further up the field in thier defensive 50. Put preasure on the oppostion & have them making mistakes. you never win a game with your main possessions in the backline like Richmonds game. They aint got a plan cause surely no0-one plans that type of trash football
Also many top AFL players do training outside of training hours while our players sell clothes & visit old friends cafes or change image with hair products & the most important spend hours talking to media We are Media Bogans & are doomed under the current coaches & the attitude of the playing group stinks. Top it off they gave the captaincy to the wrong bloke cause the captain game stinks the most lately.
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tigermonk, who should be captain?
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Richo should be captain. There is nothing more intimidating than a huge fellow barking down orders to the troops.
Younger players look up to a huge character like Richo in a leading role who has played at top level all them years
They see how hard his work rate is & try to equal it. Then a new leader is born with the same attitude.
Yes Richo has some faults but his leadership is strong
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im just looking for hope, and be honest , if those answers are good enough for you after 4 plus years , thats fine. But it does not wash me me, those answers dont really give terry a pass mark, nor the players.
i just find it really frustrating that we have to start rebuilding all over again, and it pains me to say that the last 5 years have been a waste , i was so optimistic and ecstatic when terry came on board, but now i feel the same way i did when danny was in his last year .
is it wrong to search for anything that has been positive and a winner that terry has done, cos right now i cant think of many
So you want hope TigerTime. Here is some - stop believing in all the media and (so-called) experts opinions and hype stating how bad we are as a club and playing list. This is rubbish aimed at dragging the club into making a reactionary decision on the club to either sell more papers and flood talk-back radio or destable the club once again.
Four weeks (hard to believe it was only a month now) a go all the media and experts had all fighting for the 2009 flag and painting us in a positive light now the same people have done a backflip and are stating we are a basket case. Come on! ::) Clubs, teams and coaches don't change like that overnight. The reality is is that we are somewhere in the middle, not a top 4 side but not a wooden spoon team also.
We have begun the season poorly. The media hype effected our young team adversely and we did not turn up to play. After all the hype it was a huge let down for everyone in the AFL world especially for us as supporters. This disappointment was then backed up by games against two very strong teams where we preformed poorly and all of a sudden the media backup story of TW demise kicked in. The Melbourne loss came directly on the back of our players believing all the hype and negative publicity and losing faith in the game plan, each other and themselves. This is when strong leadership was required.
The media set this up beautifuly building the club up over the preseason so we had such a long way to fall when we lost a few games.
The positives remains is that we have a very talented list to build a great team from. They need confidence, leadership and further development but they are still a good young list. Players such as Bling, Polo, Lids and most young players need encouragement and confidence to perform at their best and they need leaders around them on the field and off to boost them up. The talent and potential is there, they just need to regain their sense of invincibility and purpose.
Don't lose hope, success still remain just around the corner..... :pray
Stripes
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Stripes ...I agree with you entirely. Very well thought out and reasoned post.
A few years ago, I spoke with Steve Alessio when he was an assistant at Tigerland in 05. He said the biggest thing he saw was that the Tigers lacked leadership. Leadership in the way he knew it at Essendon...Daniher hands it down to Watson who hands it down to Hird who hands it down to Lloyd etc...
We have been bereft of true on field quality leadership. I have no issue with Knights Campbell Johnson...all great guys but non in the Buckley Hird Voss league as far as on field leadership...
Another thing about our list Alessio noted back then, is that we are too quiet as a group...and to a large extent we still are..
Our team fears losing/failure instead of embracing success. It is like standing on a golf course about to tee off and your mate says...watch out there is a lake on the left...dont hit it there...You think..i cant hit it left..i cant hit it left...What do you do...you hit it left and into the lake. It is negativity of thought.
The Hawks' Kennett said : "We will have 50000 members and win a flag by 2009". When he said that - i, like most people, thought he was looney. But he was right...Positivity of thought can carry you a long way.
Leadership and culture need to change...and you are right so too does the game plan...but does he have the cattle to implent a different game plan or is he stuck with the cattle the recruiters have delivered to him.
The recruiters need to stand up and take some of the blame...They do a great job...tireless hours..scouring the countryside...but sometimes their calls on players are wrong...and we seem to have made less progress than other teams that were down the bottom of the ladder in 04 (ex hawks and bulldogs and blues).
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Tigermonk-The time for Richo to be named captain has passed.There is no reason why he has to be captain for the players to emulate his work rate.The players all know who he is-an icon of the club.The right time for Richo to be captain was in 2005 but the club rightly or wrongly went with Kane Johnson.
If Matthew had such great leadership qualities dont you think it would be evident by now. I can see is that the other forwards have copied his lack of defensive pressure(no tackles)
The club did the right thing picking a captain in his mid 20s and looking towards the future.Newman was the "safe" choice.I personally would of liked to of seen Deledio named captain.Judd was captain in his fifth year....John Worsfold was named captain at 23.
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Newman dont even talk to the players, his been taking lessons off Johnson. Richo jaws off all day & more between breaks & even after the game walking in disgracewhile Chris has his mouth closed looking at the ground, Leaders dont do that.
Watching the replay Rewoldt pfft send him to Queensland Floggers
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WHAT HAS TERRY REALLY ACHIEVED IN 5 PRESEASONS AND 4 YEARS AND 4 ROUNDS OF HIS COACHING STINT.
his win loss record is worse than spuds or equal to it, we know he cleamed possum poo and painten a room or 2, but what has he really achieved
his 5 year plan has proved only one thing , that he is a great salesman and has bluffed us all.
if i have missed something positive that he has done to make us a better team and play damn good consistant football, please enlighten me?
cos i have been reflecting over the past 4 years , not 4 weeks, and we have achieved squat
Caro's article is a good assessment.
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im just looking for hope, and be honest , if those answers are good enough for you after 4 plus years , thats fine. But it does not wash me me, those answers dont really give terry a pass mark, nor the players.
i just find it really frustrating that we have to start rebuilding all over again, and it pains me to say that the last 5 years have been a waste , i was so optimistic and ecstatic when terry came on board, but now i feel the same way i did when danny was in his last year .
is it wrong to search for anything that has been positive and a winner that terry has done, cos right now i cant think of many
So you want hope TigerTime. Here is some - stop believing in all the media and (so-called) experts opinions and hype stating how bad we are as a club and playing list. This is rubbish aimed at dragging the club into making a reactionary decision on the club to either sell more papers and flood talk-back radio or destable the club once again.
Four weeks (hard to believe it was only a month now) a go all the media and experts had all fighting for the 2009 flag and painting us in a positive light now the same people have done a backflip and are stating we are a basket case. Come on! ::) Clubs, teams and coaches don't change like that overnight. The reality is is that we are somewhere in the middle, not a top 4 side but not a wooden spoon team also.
We have begun the season poorly. The media hype effected our young team adversely and we did not turn up to play. After all the hype it was a huge let down for everyone in the AFL world especially for us as supporters. This disappointment was then backed up by games against two very strong teams where we preformed poorly and all of a sudden the media backup story of TW demise kicked in. The Melbourne loss came directly on the back of our players believing all the hype and negative publicity and losing faith in the game plan, each other and themselves. This is when strong leadership was required.
The media set this up beautifuly building the club up over the preseason so we had such a long way to fall when we lost a few games.
The positives remains is that we have a very talented list to build a great team from. They need confidence, leadership and further development but they are still a good young list. Players such as Bling, Polo, Lids and most young players need encouragement and confidence to perform at their best and they need leaders around them on the field and off to boost them up. The talent and potential is there, they just need to regain their sense of invincibility and purpose.
Don't lose hope, success still remain just around the corner..... :pray
Stripes
of course i want hope, if i was in control of the universe right now, i would want us to win the next 15 games straight, make finals and be a contender and have wallace sign a new contract
but you can understand why my faith in us is dying, we just have to win this week and start the season again
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I always find it interesting that people focus on suuposedly poor player chocies we have made
But what about the players that have improved under TW's tenure?
I'll give you one player Kel Moore... I think the improvement in Kel over the last 3 years has been amazing. I for one thought he should have been delisted but his career has turned around
If we are going to blame the coach(es) for the players that have supposedly not improved but what about those that have?
Are we going to be so narrow minded to say that's is due to the individual player and not give credit to the coaching dept
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I always find it interesting that people focus on suuposedly poor player chocies we have made
But what about the players that have improved under TW's tenure?
I'll give you one player Kel Moore... I think the improvement in Kel over the last 3 years has been amazing. I for one thought he should have been delisted but his career has turned around
If we are going to blame the coach(es) for the players that have supposedly not improved but what about those that have?
Are we going to be so narrow minded to say that's is due to the individual player and not give credit to the coaching dept
granted and imo moore should be captain
moore and mguane are two players that have developed nicely under wallace, but we are still rock bottom, where we were when terry started
i just want us to kiick arse this week and start the season again, but im living in hope cos my confidence in wallace is at an all time low
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I always find it interesting that people focus on suuposedly poor player chocies we have made
But what about the players that have improved under TW's tenure?
I'll give you one player Kel Moore... I think the improvement in Kel over the last 3 years has been amazing. I for one thought he should have been delisted but his career has turned around
If we are going to blame the coach(es) for the players that have supposedly not improved but what about those that have?
Are we going to be so narrow minded to say that's is due to the individual player and not give credit to the coaching dept
I never thought Luke McGuane would make it either!
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I always find it interesting that people focus on suuposedly poor player chocies we have made
But what about the players that have improved under TW's tenure?
I'll give you one player Kel Moore... I think the improvement in Kel over the last 3 years has been amazing. I for one thought he should have been delisted but his career has turned around
If we are going to blame the coach(es) for the players that have supposedly not improved but what about those that have?
Are we going to be so narrow minded to say that's is due to the individual player and not give credit to the coaching dept
I never thought Luke McGuane would make it either!
still not enough to say wallace has been a success
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I always find it interesting that people focus on suuposedly poor player chocies we have made
But what about the players that have improved under TW's tenure?
I'll give you one player Kel Moore... I think the improvement in Kel over the last 3 years has been amazing. I for one thought he should have been delisted but his career has turned around
If we are going to blame the coach(es) for the players that have supposedly not improved but what about those that have?
Are we going to be so narrow minded to say that's is due to the individual player and not give credit to the coaching dept
The funniest thing about that comment WP is that you only mention ONE PLAYER KEL MOORE!!
who else has improved under Wallace?? Let me see no one. THE REST HAVE GONE BACKWARDS!!
SO BEFORE YOU START CALLING PEOPLE NARROW MINDED ID SAY YOU LOOK IN THE MIRROR PAL AND GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT.
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I always find it interesting that people focus on suuposedly poor player chocies we have made
But what about the players that have improved under TW's tenure?
I'll give you one player Kel Moore... I think the improvement in Kel over the last 3 years has been amazing. I for one thought he should have been delisted but his career has turned around
If we are going to blame the coach(es) for the players that have supposedly not improved but what about those that have?
Are we going to be so narrow minded to say that's is due to the individual player and not give credit to the coaching dept
You must be joking ::)
Its a disgrace that you can only find one player that has actually improved.
What about the dozens that have gone backwards and the ones that havent made any improvement. :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead :banghead
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Oh I forgot, Thursfield , tambling , Lids, JON. Riewoldt, Schulz, Jackson, Pettifer, they have improved leaps and bounds. GIVE ME A BREAK WP :banghead
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we are on the bottom for a reason
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we are on the bottom for a reason
Yes you are right, it is because as supporters we have sinned and now must suffer eternal torment by listening to your hate filled rants of the evils of the demon god Wallet
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The funniest thing about that comment WP is that you only mention ONE PLAYER KEL MOORE!!
Willie was giving an example ::)
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The funniest thing about that comment WP is that you only mention ONE PLAYER KEL MOORE!!
Willie was giving an example ::)
thats all good and well MOi but im asking WP why stop at one example, lets name somre shall we.
Fact is MOI most of the team have gone backwards under him. Look at Raines, Simmo,Schulz(he was pathetic to begin with) Sugar, Browny, etc etc
He has FAILED to develop a list that was there for the taking because he was trying to drive his own agenda.
In fact id go as far as to say only Kel Moore has improved since Mr body bronze took over.
Rance may turn out to be player no 2 but he will probably screw his career up by turning him into a tagger or as a ruckman.
Who could forget the Hyde/Goodes matchup at the SCG. My dear god and some of you still wanted this guy as our coach for 2 more years.
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The funniest thing about that comment WP is that you only mention ONE PLAYER KEL MOORE!!
Willie was giving an example ::)
Thanks Moi
Yeah I was giving an example, which I actually thought I explained in my original post
McGuane's another, Chris Hyde until he had his skull fractured and was never the same again.... I could go on but why bother
GIVE ME A BREAK WP :banghead
No you GIVE ME A BREAK from your rants >:(
I was posting as part of what was a balanced discussion
At least I am prepared to have a discussion rather than continually rave on ...NO actually make that droan on about the same thing over and over again
you call me a dsigrace but re-read what I wrote not what you chose to acknowledge and you might actually be able to realise I deliberately offered up only 1 example ..if you cannot see that it aint my problem
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Chuck in Foley off the top of my head as well.
We could go on ;D
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thats all good and well MOi but im asking WP why stop at one example, lets name somre shall we.
Fact is MOI most of the team have gone backwards under him. Look at Raines, Simmo,Schulz(he was pathetic to begin with) Sugar, Browny, etc etc
He has FAILED to develop a list that was there for the taking because he was trying to drive his own agenda.
In fact id go as far as to say only Kel Moore has improved since Mr body bronze took over.
Rance may turn out to be player no 2 but he will probably screw his career up by turning him into a tagger or as a ruckman.
Who could forget the Hyde/Goodes matchup at the SCG. My dear god and some of you still wanted this guy as our coach for 2 more years.
daniel, I only gave one example to try and start a discussion to see if perhaps we could take a deep breath and people would put away their narrow minded views and actually see if they could come up with any others...pretty stupid of me wasn't it ::). Because in the eyes of some the answer would remain the same no matter what.... errr...wouldn't it
So to make you happy here is a couple more
Deledio, Foley, Thursfield, Raines, Tuck, Pattison
You say Raines has gone backwards... struth under Spudley he couldn' get a game, ditto Tuck...
It is a matter of opinion and I was hoping to see balanced discussion
As I said pretty stupid of me
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williampowell, your posts are very insightful and balanced and apprecitated. i started this thread because at the moment like many tiger fans, we are feeling a bit lost, numb and searching for answers. where are we heading? what have we achieved? will we ever improve improve? we just seem to be cursed and trapped in a viscious cycle of footy pain
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thats all good and well MOi but im asking WP why stop at one example, lets name somre shall we.
Fact is MOI most of the team have gone backwards under him. Look at Raines, Simmo,Schulz(he was pathetic to begin with) Sugar, Browny, etc etc
He has FAILED to develop a list that was there for the taking because he was trying to drive his own agenda.
In fact id go as far as to say only Kel Moore has improved since Mr body bronze took over.
Rance may turn out to be player no 2 but he will probably screw his career up by turning him into a tagger or as a ruckman.
Who could forget the Hyde/Goodes matchup at the SCG. My dear god and some of you still wanted this guy as our coach for 2 more years.
daniel, I only gave one example to try and start a discussion to see if perhaps we could take a deep breath and people would put away their narrow minded views and actually see if they could come up with any others...pretty stupid of me wasn't it ::). Because in the eyes of some the answer would remain the same no matter what.... errr...wouldn't it
So to make you happy here is a couple more
Deledio, Foley, Thursfield, Raines, Tuck, Pattison
You say Raines has gone backwards... struth under Spudley he couldn' get a game, ditto Tuck...
It is a matter of opinion and I was hoping to see balanced discussion
As I said pretty stupid of me
surely you are not going down the road of Patto and Raines now are you?
Let me see Patto a wasted pick who has done nothing in his time at the club.
he played most games last year because the alternative was NO ONE.
May i add his first 4 games this year were spent at Coburb. Yep your man wallace has done so much with this kid he cant even play him in the seniors.
Raines- Ditto gone backwards. Raines breakour year was sensational and has steadily gone backwards.
Thursfield- Whilst i like Will so many dont even have him in their best 22. I have even read people say Mcguane has gone past him whom they want offloaded to Gold Coast.
We are a mess WP at the minute so many holes and not enough class in our side.
WE HAVE ONE GENUINE MATCHWINNER. RICHO!!!ILL REPEAT AGAIN ONE MATCHWINNER RICHO!!
AND SADLY HE CANT EVEN LIFT THE TEAM ANYMORE.
Tuck- A favourite of mine and ill give you that one. He has got better
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May i add his first 4 games this year were spent at Coburb. Yep your man wallace has done so much with this kid he cant even play him in the seniors.
Take a lot of notice of what's going on in and around the club do you? Pattison was injured and didn't play any pre-season - he has been getting his fitness up to scratch at Coburg. Brain - think - mouth - engage.
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Brain - think - mouth - engage.
:bow
:rollin
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surely you are not going down the road of Patto and Raines now are you?
Let me see Patto a wasted pick who has done nothing in his time at the club.
he played most games last year because the alternative was NO ONE.
May i add his first 4 games this year were spent at Coburb. Yep your man wallace has done so much with this kid he cant even play him in the seniors.
Raines- Ditto gone backwards. Raines breakour year was sensational and has steadily gone backwards.
Thursfield- Whilst i like Will so many dont even have him in their best 22. I have even read people say Mcguane has gone past him whom they want offloaded to Gold Coast.
Patto - As has been mentioned, he had surgury during the preseason and is getting his fitness back
Raines - Had a down year compared to his NAB Rising Star Runner Up effort, but this is pretty common when a standout player gets more attention the following season. He has been injured since, so pretty hard to prove himself. I thought he was really good as a midfielder against Carlton in Round 1 2008, then he dislocated his knee and it ruined his season.
Thursfield - Fit and in form is easily in our best 22. He's a stopper, but a bloody good one and there is always a place in the side for someone like that.
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Daniel how are you going to feel when your new Messiah of a coach comes in-"cuts to the bone" straight away and Richo goes bye bye
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May i add his first 4 games this year were spent at Coburb. Yep your man wallace has done so much with this kid he cant even play him in the seniors.
Take a lot of notice of what's going on in and around the club do you? Pattison was injured and didn't play any pre-season - he has been getting his fitness up to scratch at Coburg. Brain - think - mouth - engage.
Let me see Patto a wasted pick who has done nothing in his time at the club.
he played most games last year because the alternative was NO ONE.
May i add his first 4 games this year were spent at Coburb. Yep your man wallace has done so much with this kid he cant even play him in the seniors.
read my post again you loser.
patto was a wasted pick. HE PLAYED MOST GAMES BECAUSE THE ALTERNATIVE WAS UUM NO ONE.
he is currently playing for Coburg and if he was a descent ruckman he would be in the team, no question about that.
i would suggest you read slowly it might actually make sense to an illeterate stuff like yourself.
as for the rest of you who know want Will back in the side. Funny how most of you change your tune. A few weeks ago it was Will is rubbish and Luke is so much better than him.
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i would suggest you read slowly it might actually make sense to an illeterate stuff like yourself.
:scream Post of the year!!!!!!!!
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patto was a wasted pick. HE PLAYED MOST GAMES BECAUSE THE ALTERNATIVE WAS UUM NO ONE.
So he was our second best ruckman then.
he is currently playing for Coburg and if he was a descent ruckman he would be in the team, no question about that.
If he was a descent ruckman then he would be a downhill skier but I don't think that description is apt.
i would suggest you read slowly it might actually make sense to an illeterate stuff like yourself.
See above post. I'm still laughing. :lol :rollin :lol
as for the rest of you who know want Will back in the side. Funny how most of you change your tune. A few weeks ago it was Will is rubbish and Luke is so much better than him.
Funny that. In all this 'chaos and turmoil' I have hardly heard or read one call for Thursfield to be recalled. Mmmmm, wonder why? Maybe we haven't missed him.
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patto was a wasted pick. HE PLAYED MOST GAMES BECAUSE THE ALTERNATIVE WAS UUM NO ONE.
So he was our second best ruckman then.
he is currently playing for Coburg and if he was a descent ruckman he would be in the team, no question about that.
If he was a descent ruckman then he would be a downhill skier but I don't think that description is apt.
i would suggest you read slowly it might actually make sense to an illeterate stuff like yourself.
See above post. I'm still laughing. :lol :rollin :lol
as for the rest of you who know want Will back in the side. Funny how most of you change your tune. A few weeks ago it was Will is rubbish and Luke is so much better than him.
Funny that. In all this 'chaos and turmoil' I have hardly heard or read one call for Thursfield to be recalled. Mmmmm, wonder why? Maybe we haven't missed him.
good im glad your finally starting to come around. :clapping
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as for the rest of you who know want Will back in the side. Funny how most of you change your tune. A few weeks ago it was Will is rubbish and Luke is so much better than him.
............
Funny that. In all this 'chaos and turmoil' I have hardly heard or read one call for Thursfield to be recalled. Mmmmm, wonder why? Maybe we haven't missed him.
............
good im glad your finally starting to come around. :clapping
What the hell are you talking about? Do you have a comprehension problem in addition to your "illeterate" one? Still laughing at that one by the way. :lol :rollin :lol
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why does daniel have to hijack every thread and degrade this site with his bs statements
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TigerTime, TW is an easy target but the damage was done before and around him. Our recruiters should shoulder a lot of the blame for our current list as should our current leaders. TW should be held accountable fore his tactics and style of play which I feel are too advanced for our players atm.
We have had multiple discussions on this board about the sheer amount of players that TW has turned over in his time at the club and the amount of games he has invested into them. Many other teams have a young list but Richmond has more young players with AFL experience than any other club.
The reason for that is two fold, one - in an attempt to fast track their development and find out who would make it and two - because they were better options than the older players they were replacing. TW could and can only work with the players he is given but given the state of the list when he arrived and then the players he was given afterwards, he has done all he can to build a platform for future success.
One thing I do blame TW for is our game plan. There is a reason we have the lowest tackle count in the league, struggle with the 1% and appear very individualistic. Terry's game plan revolves around winning the hard-ball and clearnaces and quick movement of the ball into the forwardline. What is fails to achieve his the offensive defense that the ball carrier needs, particularly now with the rolling zone, to create space to execute unpressured kicks and handballs. The reason we turn the ball over so much, have so many clangers, rush our desposals and look for shorter options is because we leave the ball carrier unprotected.
TW needs to encourage (which I believe he is starting to do more now) our players to shepherd, block and protect the ball carrier then they would have more time and space to look for longer options and deliver the ball more skillfully to their target. This is a problem for our team.
The other big factor in our lack of success is ourll 'culture' which is passed down from the leadership group to the younger players each year. Our leaders are leading the team but leading them in the wrong way and modelling to them the wrong attitude and style of play.
For all his skills and level headedness, Bowden is a blight on our side. He plays completely the opposite to which TW wants the team too - holds up the ball, waits until the opposition have settled, looks for the uncontested target then runs forward to recieve the ball again while the opposition set up comfortably further up the ground. Bowden is not a risk taker which is required essential in todays game and while he may rack up the uncontested possessions and recieve the handballs as he runs to assist the ball carrier, he will never try and break the lines, block, shepherd, tackle or do any of the 1%. He is a strong personality but he is a poor player and poor leader.
Richo is another individualistic player as is Brown and Simmonds. We need good leadership from players of the ilk of Hodge, Voss etc. I hope someone such as Cogs can regain form because he would be the type we need. If Riewoldt and Cotchin can step up soon they could also be just the type of leaders we need, I just hope they don't catch the Richmond 'culture-disease' before that time.
So while you might say what has TW done in his 5 years at the club and point to our win-loss ratio and form of the kids at the moment, the facts remain that TW has less to do with our current predictament than our leadership and past recruiters.
If we are lacking confidence and the leaders give the team no hope and don't support the coach's message then who's fault is that.
I still support TW but just wish he would change that game plan before it is too late.
Stripes
So according to Stripes the only thing Terry has done wrong in the 4 and a bit years is have a game plan that is to advanced for our players, that he has had nothing to do with in drafting!
Not only that, he has the nerve to call our best 2 players of the last 10 years, 'individualistic'. They both deserve better than that!
You Stripes make my blood boil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! even more than Terry Wallace.
Get your head out of your ass!
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What makes my blood boil is the fact that Richo is "Off Limits" to so many posters on this forum.I love Richo as much as the next tiger supporter but he is not infallible.So What if Stripes called him individualistic.Richo is a champion of our club but he does have flaws to his game.In four games this year he has had only one tackle.(While playing half the time in the midfield) What example does that set for the rest of the team ?
For the record I consider Stripes to be one of the most intelligent articulate posters on this forum.
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For the record I consider Stripes to be one of the most intelligent articulate posters on this forum.
So does he.
Stripes.
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What makes my blood boil is the fact that Richo is "Off Limits" to so many posters on this forum.I love Richo as much as the next tiger supporter but he is not infallible.So What if Stripes called him individualistic.Richo is a champion of our club but he does have flaws to his game.In four games this year he has had only one tackle.(While playing half the time in the midfield) What example does that set for the rest of the team ?
For the record I consider Stripes to be one of the most intelligent articulate posters on this forum.
No one said Richo was "off limits", don't do that mat73. If you have read some of my posts lately you will see that i stated that his kicking was very average and that bad kicking was bad footy.
What i don't understand is some peanut calling him individualistic, sure he has some down falls i.e. kicking at goal and tackling like you said BUT individualistic no! He has put his heart and soul into this club and deserves a little more respect than that.
He is a champion like you said but that does not mean champions don't have weak parts to there game.
Would you call Richo individualistic mat73?
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As someone on the ABC said, a commentater that is, if we had a team full of Richos we would be undefeated! Richo is a poor shot on goal and to make it worse, he misses at vital times. So does Buddy and he is a premiership player. The thing is, Richo seems to be the only player who seems to care about poor skills (read dummy spits) and he has an ability to come back from injury better than anyone. He has probably taken more contested marks in the history of the game and undoubtedly, more than the current crop of players. He has been the face of our club since debut. He is without doubt the most popular player's player and i would think supporter's player too!He is an allround good bloke.800 goals, close to 300 games, nearly a brownlow at 33 years of age. I think he deserves to be off limits.
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im just looking for hope, and be honest , if those answers are good enough for you after 4 plus years , thats fine. But it does not wash me me, those answers dont really give terry a pass mark, nor the players.
i just find it really frustrating that we have to start rebuilding all over again, and it pains me to say that the last 5 years have been a waste , i was so optimistic and ecstatic when terry came on board, but now i feel the same way i did when danny was in his last year .
is it wrong to search for anything that has been positive and a winner that terry has done, cos right now i cant think of many
So you want hope TigerTime. Here is some - stop believing in all the media and (so-called) experts opinions and hype stating how bad we are as a club and playing list. This is rubbish aimed at dragging the club into making a reactionary decision on the club to either sell more papers and flood talk-back radio or destable the club once again.
Four weeks (hard to believe it was only a month now) a go all the media and experts had all fighting for the 2009 flag and painting us in a positive light now the same people have done a backflip and are stating we are a basket case. Come on! ::) Clubs, teams and coaches don't change like that overnight. The reality is is that we are somewhere in the middle, not a top 4 side but not a wooden spoon team also.
We have begun the season poorly. The media hype effected our young team adversely and we did not turn up to play. After all the hype it was a huge let down for everyone in the AFL world especially for us as supporters. This disappointment was then backed up by games against two very strong teams where we preformed poorly and all of a sudden the media backup story of TW demise kicked in. The Melbourne loss came directly on the back of our players believing all the hype and negative publicity and losing faith in the game plan, each other and themselves. This is when strong leadership was required.
The media set this up beautifuly building the club up over the preseason so we had such a long way to fall when we lost a few games.
The positives remains is that we have a very talented list to build a great team from. They need confidence, leadership and further development but they are still a good young list. Players such as Bling, Polo, Lids and most young players need encouragement and confidence to perform at their best and they need leaders around them on the field and off to boost them up. The talent and potential is there, they just need to regain their sense of invincibility and purpose.
Don't lose hope, success still remain just around the corner..... :pray
Stripes
no disrespect but this is crap.
Blaming the media is a total cop out. It was Wallaces responsibility to get the players ready during the pre-season for round one and he failed. God only knows what they were doing during the pre-season.
Also you harp on about a young talented list we have. Who are you referring to? You name Bling, Deledio and Polo. Bling is very ordinary and has been given enough support and encouragement and has shown he's very average. He won't be a solid, consistent top line player and the sooner the club realises this the better. Deledio I agree will be a great player and Polo will be serviceable at best. I'll add Cotchin, Connors and perhaps Collins as small/medium/on-ballers with potential. Foley is a senior, Thomson maybe, and Hislop is a big worry. It pretty mch dries up there in terms of young talented on-ballers. We are in big strife going forward in this area. Our tall backs are in decent shape with McGuane, Thursfield, Moore, Rance, and Post, but our forwards are in a shocking state with Riewoldt the only half decent young forward with potential. Look at the other clubs, and you can see that they al have good kids coming through, most of who have more and better.
Wallace has failed to rebuild this club and his desire for instant self gratification and unwillingness for hardwork through the draft has resulted in him, deservedly, facing the axe. It can't come quick enough.
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I'd hardly call Foley a senior, he's what 23-24?
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I think that we were slowly getting better during the years of Wallace. The Ben cuzins came along and all the clubs attentions were on him ! and should have been on the players team work !
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Wow! See what happens when you don't read the forum for a couple of days!
Big Tone - Richo is an out and out champion of the club that bleeds yellow and black and is a fantastic bloke all round - that is indesputable. When I say he is 'individualistic' I think you need to read my explanation more carefully. What I am saying is that he looks to win every battle, every mark, every contest on his own.
When Richo plays in the forwardline he only has eyes for the ball. If he is in the pocket the ball is kicked to a leading Schulz etc he will race to the contest, crash the pack and attempt to take the mark himself. This is why Schulz has been injuried so many times by the big fellow and why playing them side by side is unworkable to date.
I don't think Richo plays a team orientated game. In the example above he wouldn't think to shepherd out Schulz's defender, or make a dummy lead to give the other forwards more space to lead. Richo is an incredible mark but his frequent poor kicking often hinders the team on the score board and in terms of morale too.
He has shouldered much of the resposibility of the team for years now and been the face of the club but he has flaws as we all have said. We need to start to look to the future now and see if Richo, despite all the assets he brings to the team, is in fact doing more harm than good to the younger players through his example and team structures.
There is no doubt that we were a better team when Richo was moved out of the forwardline. We became less predictable instantly, had a broader range of gaols kickers and had a tall marking option/link player on the wing. This should have been done years a go to allow our young forwards a chance to develop because the presence of the big fellow swallowed up all the F50 deliveries (and good help the midfielder who looked beyond Richo to another forward!) and all the space in the 50 (as I have already refered to with Rich running from anywhere to take the grab).
I think its too late now, but if Richo could develop a defensive game to compliment his offensive game then he would be unstoppable but the facts remain that he doesn't tackle, he doesn't shepherd, he does dummy lead, he doesn't block and he doesn't lead the lead the team. If he did he would have been made captain decades a go.
Our senior players need to lead through word and deed, and despite their obvious strengths they have the same glaring weaknesses that have been dragging down this team for decades. We need our champions to do the 1% if we ever hope our young developing players will and if they can't then judgements need to be made if we have any chance for future success.
Stripes
(a.k.a peanut)
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For the record I consider Stripes to be one of the most intelligent articulate posters on this forum.
So does he.
Stripes.
Ox, anyone who trade marks his name shouldn't be saying others have tickets on themselves now should they....
STRIPES :)
PS Thanks mat073 for the support and comment, I'll pay you later!
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For the record I consider Stripes to be one of the most intelligent articulate posters on this forum.
So does he.
Stripes.
Ox, anyone who trade marks his name shouldn't be saying others have tickets on themselves now should they....
STRIPES :)
PS Thanks mat073 for the support and comment, I'll pay you later!
:thumbsup :thumbsup
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no disrespect but this is crap.
Blaming the media is a total cop out. It was Wallaces responsibility to get the players ready during the pre-season for round one and he failed. God only knows what they were doing during the pre-season.
Also you harp on about a young talented list we have. Who are you referring to? You name Bling, Deledio and Polo. Bling is very ordinary and has been given enough support and encouragement and has shown he's very average. He won't be a solid, consistent top line player and the sooner the club realises this the better. Deledio I agree will be a great player and Polo will be serviceable at best. I'll add Cotchin, Connors and perhaps Collins as small/medium/on-ballers with potential. Foley is a senior, Thomson maybe, and Hislop is a big worry. It pretty mch dries up there in terms of young talented on-ballers. We are in big strife going forward in this area. Our tall backs are in decent shape with McGuane, Thursfield, Moore, Rance, and Post, but our forwards are in a shocking state with Riewoldt the only half decent young forward with potential. Look at the other clubs, and you can see that they al have good kids coming through, most of who have more and better.
Wallace has failed to rebuild this club and his desire for instant self gratification and unwillingness for hardwork through the draft has resulted in him, deservedly, facing the axe. It can't come quick enough.
Harry, I can understand your view point. I'm not trying to shift the blame away from TW in fact I think we will probably be better off now with a new coach. What I wa trying to say is that the media deliberately built up the hype to take advantage of the Richmond faithfuls fantastism - if we were success they would have sold papers on the wave of positivity but if we lost, well they could always rely on the Tigers bitter disappointment and Eat'or'own attitude.
I lay the blame fore our losses on our players and coach. TW should have placed the players in a 'bubble' before the Carlton game, reduced the hype and ensured they were mentally prepared and focused. He didn't. Tw should have also not attempted to change our defense tactics to mimic Hawthorns because, as we have all witnessed now, other teams are prepared/drilled to work there way through a zone and we are not drilled, lead, coach or committed to executed the tactic.
The differnce between our list and other more successful clubs is our confidence and culture. When Tambling first cam to the club he was fantastic but then he was injuried and self doubt crept in. As a club we should have enabled him to have recaptured that confidence by now but instead he has gone the other way. This is just one example of many and is the most important factor in our good players going forward.
I think TW has done his job in terms of starting the rebuild but I think we now have to hand over the reins to a coach who can instill the mental strengths, capabilities, strategies and confidence to go forward.
Sorry if you disagree
Stripes
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Wow! See what happens when you don't read the forum for a couple of days!
Big Tone - Richo is an out and out champion of the club that bleeds yellow and black and is a fantastic bloke all round - that is indesputable. When I say he is 'individualistic' I think you need to read my explanation more carefully. What I am saying is that he looks to win every battle, every mark, every contest on his own.
When Richo plays in the forwardline he only has eyes for the ball. If he is in the pocket the ball is kicked to a leading Schulz etc he will race to the contest, crash the pack and attempt to take the mark himself. This is why Schulz has been injuried so many times by the big fellow and why playing them side by side is unworkable to date.
I don't think Richo plays a team orientated game. In the example above he wouldn't think to shepherd out Schulz's defender, or make a dummy lead to give the other forwards more space to lead. Richo is an incredible mark but his frequent poor kicking often hinders the team on the score board and in terms of morale too.
He has shouldered much of the resposibility of the team for years now and been the face of the club but he has flaws as we all have said. We need to start to look to the future now and see if Richo, despite all the assets he brings to the team, is in fact doing more harm than good to the younger players through his example and team structures.
There is no doubt that we were a better team when Richo was moved out of the forwardline. We became less predictable instantly, had a broader range of gaols kickers and had a tall marking option/link player on the wing. This should have been done years a go to allow our young forwards a chance to develop because the presence of the big fellow swallowed up all the F50 deliveries (and good help the midfielder who looked beyond Richo to another forward!) and all the space in the 50 (as I have already refered to with Rich running from anywhere to take the grab).
I think its too late now, but if Richo could develop a defensive game to compliment his offensive game then he would be unstoppable but the facts remain that he doesn't tackle, he doesn't shepherd, he does dummy lead, he doesn't block and he doesn't lead the lead the team. If he did he would have been made captain decades a go.
Our senior players need to lead through word and deed, and despite their obvious strengths they have the same glaring weaknesses that have been dragging down this team for decades. We need our champions to do the 1% if we ever hope our young developing players will and if they can't then judgements need to be made if we have any chance for future success.
Stripes
(a.k.a peanut)
May just have to agree to disagree because i disagree with all of your last post.
Richo not being named captain this year is just another one of TW's many mistakes. (does decade mean 10 years, if so decades must mean 20years or more)
What amazes me about you Stripes, with the start of the season the way it has gone, you want Terry to be resigned and you want to attack Richo as a player and a champion of our club.
Anyway like i said, agree to disagree. :cheers
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no disrespect but this is crap.
Blaming the media is a total cop out. It was Wallaces responsibility to get the players ready during the pre-season for round one and he failed. God only knows what they were doing during the pre-season.
Also you harp on about a young talented list we have. Who are you referring to? You name Bling, Deledio and Polo. Bling is very ordinary and has been given enough support and encouragement and has shown he's very average. He won't be a solid, consistent top line player and the sooner the club realises this the better. Deledio I agree will be a great player and Polo will be serviceable at best. I'll add Cotchin, Connors and perhaps Collins as small/medium/on-ballers with potential. Foley is a senior, Thomson maybe, and Hislop is a big worry. It pretty mch dries up there in terms of young talented on-ballers. We are in big strife going forward in this area. Our tall backs are in decent shape with McGuane, Thursfield, Moore, Rance, and Post, but our forwards are in a shocking state with Riewoldt the only half decent young forward with potential. Look at the other clubs, and you can see that they al have good kids coming through, most of who have more and better.
Wallace has failed to rebuild this club and his desire for instant self gratification and unwillingness for hardwork through the draft has resulted in him, deservedly, facing the axe. It can't come quick enough.
Harry, I can understand your view point. I'm not trying to shift the blame away from TW in fact I think we will probably be better off now with a new coach. What I wa trying to say is that the media deliberately built up the hype to take advantage of the Richmond faithfuls fantastism - if we were success they would have sold papers on the wave of positivity but if we lost, well they could always rely on the Tigers bitter disappointment and Eat'or'own attitude.
I lay the blame fore our losses on our players and coach. TW should have placed the players in a 'bubble' before the Carlton game, reduced the hype and ensured they were mentally prepared and focused. He didn't. Tw should have also not attempted to change our defense tactics to mimic Hawthorns because, as we have all witnessed now, other teams are prepared/drilled to work there way through a zone and we are not drilled, lead, coach or committed to executed the tactic.
The differnce between our list and other more successful clubs is our confidence and culture. When Tambling first cam to the club he was fantastic but then he was injuried and self doubt crept in. As a club we should have enabled him to have recaptured that confidence by now but instead he has gone the other way. This is just one example of many and is the most important factor in our good players going forward.
I think TW has done his job in terms of starting the rebuild but I think we now have to hand over the reins to a coach who can instill the mental strengths, capabilities, strategies and confidence to go forward.
Sorry if you disagree
Stripes
:clapping :clapping :clapping :clapping
Thank you
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What amazes me about you Stripes, with the start of the season the way it has gone, you want Terry to be resigned and you want to attack Richo as a player and a champion of our club.
I dont think he is suggesting either and in regards to TW exactly the opposite, it might pay to actually read his posts
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What amazes me about you Stripes, with the start of the season the way it has gone, you want Terry to be resigned and you want to attack Richo as a player and a champion of our club.
I dont think he is suggesting either and in regards to TW exactly the opposite, it might pay to actually read his posts
I do Chuck, and even up till last week he posted we should resign TW.
It might actually pay for YOU to read his posts too.
But i'm sure if he disagreed with what i said, HE might have said something.
Thanks anyay Chucky!! :banghead
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Wow! See what happens when you don't read the forum for a couple of days!
Big Tone - Richo is an out and out champion of the club that bleeds yellow and black and is a fantastic bloke all round - that is indesputable. When I say he is 'individualistic' I think you need to read my explanation more carefully. What I am saying is that he looks to win every battle, every mark, every contest on his own.
When Richo plays in the forwardline he only has eyes for the ball. If he is in the pocket the ball is kicked to a leading Schulz etc he will race to the contest, crash the pack and attempt to take the mark himself. This is why Schulz has been injuried so many times by the big fellow and why playing them side by side is unworkable to date.
I don't think Richo plays a team orientated game. In the example above he wouldn't think to shepherd out Schulz's defender, or make a dummy lead to give the other forwards more space to lead. Richo is an incredible mark but his frequent poor kicking often hinders the team on the score board and in terms of morale too.
He has shouldered much of the resposibility of the team for years now and been the face of the club but he has flaws as we all have said. We need to start to look to the future now and see if Richo, despite all the assets he brings to the team, is in fact doing more harm than good to the younger players through his example and team structures.
There is no doubt that we were a better team when Richo was moved out of the forwardline. We became less predictable instantly, had a broader range of gaols kickers and had a tall marking option/link player on the wing. This should have been done years a go to allow our young forwards a chance to develop because the presence of the big fellow swallowed up all the F50 deliveries (and good help the midfielder who looked beyond Richo to another forward!) and all the space in the 50 (as I have already refered to with Rich running from anywhere to take the grab).
I think its too late now, but if Richo could develop a defensive game to compliment his offensive game then he would be unstoppable but the facts remain that he doesn't tackle, he doesn't shepherd, he does dummy lead, he doesn't block and he doesn't lead the lead the team. If he did he would have been made captain decades a go.
Our senior players need to lead through word and deed, and despite their obvious strengths they have the same glaring weaknesses that have been dragging down this team for decades. We need our champions to do the 1% if we ever hope our young developing players will and if they can't then judgements need to be made if we have any chance for future success.
Stripes
(a.k.a peanut)
Agree 100% with what you say Stripes (or is it peanut now). Richo never was and never will be captain material. He has played his whole career in an individualistic manner and didn't get anywhere the maturity level needed to be seriously considered for captaincy until he was too old. And judging by a couple of instances in games so far this year, maybe he is still not mature enough. Petulant on field berating and overt displays of annoyance with your team mates are not the way of effective captaincy, especially when you have a personal history of letting your team mates down with poor conversion. He might bleed yellow and black, he might have remained extremely loyal in testing times, he might have been 'head and shoulders' the best player in the club in the past 20 years but he never was and never will be a suitable candidate for captain.
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Big tone.You are correct Sir...no one has said that Richo if off limits.I can only speculate that it how you feel given your strong response to Matthew being called "indivualistic"Do I think Richo is indivualistic....that depends on what your definition of indivualistic is.Do I think Richo is a selfish player...Big Fat No.
The only grievance i have with Richos game apart from the obvious(kicking for goal) is his lack of defensive pressure.When a team like Richmond has a reputation as being "soft as butter" and its spiritual leader only averages 0.5 tackles a game-somthing is wrong.
Lets compare apples with apples.
Matthew Richardson...games 280 career tackles 132
Buddy Franklin.....games 85 career tackles 173
You can draw your own conclusions.
Richo is still my hero and you only have to look at my office which is a shrine to the big fella to understand that.
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Wow! See what happens when you don't read the forum for a couple of days!
Big Tone - Richo is an out and out champion of the club that bleeds yellow and black and is a fantastic bloke all round - that is indesputable. When I say he is 'individualistic' I think you need to read my explanation more carefully. What I am saying is that he looks to win every battle, every mark, every contest on his own.
When Richo plays in the forwardline he only has eyes for the ball. If he is in the pocket the ball is kicked to a leading Schulz etc he will race to the contest, crash the pack and attempt to take the mark himself. This is why Schulz has been injuried so many times by the big fellow and why playing them side by side is unworkable to date.
I don't think Richo plays a team orientated game. In the example above he wouldn't think to shepherd out Schulz's defender, or make a dummy lead to give the other forwards more space to lead. Richo is an incredible mark but his frequent poor kicking often hinders the team on the score board and in terms of morale too.
He has shouldered much of the resposibility of the team for years now and been the face of the club but he has flaws as we all have said. We need to start to look to the future now and see if Richo, despite all the assets he brings to the team, is in fact doing more harm than good to the younger players through his example and team structures.
There is no doubt that we were a better team when Richo was moved out of the forwardline. We became less predictable instantly, had a broader range of gaols kickers and had a tall marking option/link player on the wing. This should have been done years a go to allow our young forwards a chance to develop because the presence of the big fellow swallowed up all the F50 deliveries (and good help the midfielder who looked beyond Richo to another forward!) and all the space in the 50 (as I have already refered to with Rich running from anywhere to take the grab).
I think its too late now, but if Richo could develop a defensive game to compliment his offensive game then he would be unstoppable but the facts remain that he doesn't tackle, he doesn't shepherd, he does dummy lead, he doesn't block and he doesn't lead the lead the team. If he did he would have been made captain decades a go.
Our senior players need to lead through word and deed, and despite their obvious strengths they have the same glaring weaknesses that have been dragging down this team for decades. We need our champions to do the 1% if we ever hope our young developing players will and if they can't then judgements need to be made if we have any chance for future success.
Stripes
(a.k.a peanut)
Agree 100% with what you say Stripes (or is it peanut now). Richo never was and never will be captain material. He has played his whole career in an individualistic manner and didn't get anywhere the maturity level needed to be seriously considered for captaincy until he was too old. And judging by a couple of instances in games so far this year, maybe he is still not mature enough. Petulant on field berating and overt displays of annoyance with your team mates are not the way of effective captaincy, especially when you have a personal history of letting your team mates down with poor conversion. He might bleed yellow and black, he might have remained extremely loyal in testing times, he might have been 'head and shoulders' the best player in the club in the past 20 years but he never was and never will be a suitable candidate for captain.
Awesome! If we keep this up we can have ourselves a bowl of "Peanuts"
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What amazes me about you Stripes, with the start of the season the way it has gone, you want Terry to be resigned
Where did he say that? I must have missed that post.
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What amazes me about you Stripes, with the start of the season the way it has gone, you want Terry to be resigned
Where did he say that? I must have missed that post.
Why not just ask him....
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Why not just ask him....
?? You pebble - are you related to Daniel by chance?
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Big tone do you still think we were being to harsh on Jake King ?
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I do Chuck, and even up till last week he posted we should resign TW.
It might actually pay for YOU to read his posts too.
But i'm sure if he disagreed with what i said, HE might have said something.
Thanks anyay Chucky!! :banghead
No problems happy to help ;D
I know Stripes (aka peanut) posts are long but they are usually well balanced and logical. Here are some bits Stripes recently had to say on TW as it looks like you missed them.
I think TW has done his job in terms of starting the rebuild but I think we now have to hand over the reins to a coach who can instill the mental strengths, capabilities, strategies and confidence to go forward.
I lay the blame fore our losses on our players and coach. TW should have placed the players in a 'bubble' before the Carlton game, reduced the hype and ensured they were mentally prepared and focused. He didn't. Tw should have also not attempted to change our defense tactics to mimic Hawthorns because, as we have all witnessed now, other teams are prepared/drilled to work there way through a zone and we are not drilled, lead, coach or committed to executed the tactic. Stripes
If you need any more help on what is well balanced and what is not just advise
Regards Chucky (aka one of the other peanuts in the bowl)
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I wish to apply for the position of Junior Vice President of the peanut club.
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I wish to apply for the position of Junior Vice President of the peanut club.
I would also like to apply, intially as the stale old peanut and work my way up to the nobbies variety ;)
To be fair to you bigtone I did say we should reappoint TW last week but I was refering to a quick method to shut the media up. I was not seriously suggesting we should do it from a profession perspective but more for the shock value!
If TW can take the team to the finals I think we should be true to our word and recontract him, though to be honest I now hope he doesn't because we need a new motivator, game plan and leader to take this young list forward.
Stripes
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I'll second both you guys in, so that looks like we have a triumvarite (sp?) peanut board.
Go the mighty peanuts.
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I'll second both you guys in, so that looks like we have a triumvarite (sp?) peanut board.
Go the mighty peanuts.
And might I say, collectively a bowl of peanuts way exceeds the IQ level of some posters on here. :o
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last night the light at the tunnel got brighter
well done tiges , lets hope we can build from here and kick start our season
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I wish to apply for the position of Junior Vice President of the peanut club.
No need to apply mat73, your in.
Your comedy is application enough... :thumbsup
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Why not just ask him....
?? You pebble - are you related to Daniel by chance?
No, but are you related to TigerTime by any chance!
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Why not just ask him....
?? You pebble - are you related to Daniel by chance?
No, but are you related to TigerTime by any chance!
Yes, by virtue of being a Richmond supporter that chooses to support my club and not go down the populist path of senseless, ill-directed bagging. Which would make you a half sister to Damien Barrett and Patrick Smith.
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I wish to apply for the position of Junior Vice President of the peanut club.
I would also like to apply, intially as the stale old peanut and work my way up to the nobbies variety ;)
To be fair to you bigtone I did say we should reappoint TW last week but I was refering to a quick method to shut the media up. I was not seriously suggesting we should do it from a profession perspective but more for the shock value!
If TW can take the team to the finals I think we should be true to our word and recontract him, though to be honest I now hope he doesn't because we need a new motivator, game plan and leader to take this young list forward.
Stripes
i think i am a salted peanut! After last night though, i think i am a BEERnut!
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I wish to apply for the position of Junior Vice President of the peanut club.
I would also like to apply, intially as the stale old peanut and work my way up to the nobbies variety ;)
To be fair to you bigtone I did say we should reappoint TW last week but I was refering to a quick method to shut the media up. I was not seriously suggesting we should do it from a profession perspective but more for the shock value!
If TW can take the team to the finals I think we should be true to our word and recontract him, though to be honest I now hope he doesn't because we need a new motivator, game plan and leader to take this young list forward.
Stripes
i think i am a salted peanut! After last night though, i think i am a BEERnut!
I would be a Macadamia; native Aussie, hard exterior and equally hard interior.
Daniel would have to be a Hazel nut (he is a bit of a girl after all)
:lol
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I wish to apply for the position of Junior Vice President of the peanut club.
I would also like to apply, intially as the stale old peanut and work my way up to the nobbies variety ;)
To be fair to you bigtone I did say we should reappoint TW last week but I was refering to a quick method to shut the media up. I was not seriously suggesting we should do it from a profession perspective but more for the shock value!
If TW can take the team to the finals I think we should be true to our word and recontract him, though to be honest I now hope he doesn't because we need a new motivator, game plan and leader to take this young list forward.
Stripes
i think i am a salted peanut! After last night though, i think i am a BEERnut!
I would be a Macadamia; native Aussie, hard exterior and equally hard interior.
Daniel would have to be a Hazel nut (he is a bit of a girl after all)
:lol
:sleep
:sleep
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pistacchio