Matt Dea [merged]

[Judge Roughneck]

Dea is worth keeping on his courage 

[The Big Richo]

"He didn't play to team rules" don't mean to be a smart alec but how would you know that? How would any of us know that?

I believe the answer to that question is always 

Very entertaining thread, Jackstar you should post on Y and B sometime.

[HKTiger]

WP,

I made a couple of Coburg games last year and saw and heard the coaches address Ben on him not playing his ordained role.  Sorry that's not playing to the team rules.  When an RFC coach tells him that, I'll accept it as the definition.

On Matt's hands.  There's a couple of drills that the players do where the players with excellent hands stand out.  Trent and Jack are stars at this.  Matt is not at Trent's level, but he does better at this one particular drill than a fair few in the current first 18.

[WilliamPowell]

I made a couple of Coburg games last year and saw and heard the coaches address Ben on him not playing his ordained role.  Sorry that's not playing to the team rules.  When an RFC coach tells him that, I'll accept it as the definition.

Fair enough - I was just asking the question.

Though at a Coburg game if it's a RFC coach telling him that to me that's can be concern as well because it should be the Coburg coaches who are telling him if he is playing to team rules.

Seriously I remember once when Andy Collins was coaching he went up to a RFC player at qtr time prasied him up about the way he was playing and then David King came over to the same player while Collins was addressing the whole team no less and told him he wasn't doing what he was supposed to be doing from a RFC perspective... would argue that the Coburg coach is the one who determines if a player is playing by the teams rules  .... no wonder the kid was goneski at seasons end 

[Penelope]

Billy, you ask whats the difference, and someone has already answered and that is the level of improvement. Nason stagnated after being gifted games due to the philosophy at the time. he shoed some improvement in his first year, but not much. in is second year he spent the whole year at coburg, with how many times being named in the best? by the time he was cut it was pretty much as good as you get from ben

dea has improved his output at coburg to the point where he has nullified some rated opponents, and more recently racked up some high posession games and being named in the best. he is still improving

[HKTiger]

Fair point WP.  And yes that may have added to Ben's challenges.

[Coach]

WP,

Too much BS to wade through to find your post on why time is being invested in Matt Dea and not others.

Just based on what has been seen and heard and what I have personally seen:
- Dea has the body size and shape that is perfect for Dimma's gameplan.  Dea's got very fast reflexes, sure hands and very quick hands.  (BBall point gaurd, but watch him at training, his hands are good and very sure.  A one grab catch.)  He's strong.  And he is freakishly athletic.  He has a standing vertical leap better than anyone else at the club.  And he is getting into the foolishly fearless mould.  Dimma seems to really rate and love that.  He has limitatons.  But he also comes across as very single minded and very focussed, and thus does a job, plays a role.  This again seems to be a trait that Dimma wants in x players per weekend.

Your example was Nason.  I'd respond with 14 games, body size, lack of stickability on tackles and possibly playing to his designated role/job.  Webberley plays to the role given.  White the same.  It was apparent a few times last year, at Coburg, that Nason didn't play to team rules.

As to his role on Sunday.  It appears that he rotated on Hams and Shuey and basically shut them down.  If anyone can show that is not what he did, please provide the details.  Al's been asking for 24 hours.  No one has answered it.

Oh and JS that first goal by Hams was a little unlucky.  Hams led with a dipping twisting shoulder to draw the high tackle.  WC did it all day and and got lots of soft frees for it.  Lead with the head (Dusty and Foley) no free, lead with the shoulder, twist and dip, Free.  Go figure.

Sorry our forum isn't good enough for you hun

[WilliamPowell]

Billy, you ask whats the difference, and someone has already answered and that is the level of improvement. Nason stagnated after being gifted games due to the philosophy at the time. he shoed some improvement in his first year, but not much. in is second year he spent the whole year at coburg, with how many times being named in the best? by the time he was cut it was pretty much as good as you get from ben

dea has improved his output at coburg to the point where he has nullified some rated opponents, and more recently racked up some high posession games and being named in the best. he is still improving

I understand that al, but again you are missing my point or am still not making it well 

Firstly I am only using Nason as example because he was drafted at the same time as Dea.

You point out that Nason was "gifted games" well the same can be said about Dea and any young player on the list. You then point out that Nason "stagnated"and there was no improvement from him in year 2. Where as in your view Dea has "improved his output at Coburg" (I'll make the assumption that you are saying he has improved). 

I agree about Nason showed no improvement from year 1 to year 2 and I am not disputing that he deserved to be cut.

My opinion is (and people can agree or disagree) that there has been very little improvement in Dea from when he played his first game to his 8th. Simply I cannot/haven't see(n) it. As I said it's my opinion & dont expect people to agree.

And that's the argument right there in a nutshell?

Why is it that after 2 years it was OK for people to say Nason had to go because he wasn't up to it?

But if people raise the same discussion about Dea in year 3 it is "you are bagging the kid or he just needs more time"?

[HKTiger]

I reckon its age and body size WP.

Matt was bottom aged.  Ben was 20/21.  And yeah Dimma seems to love that body size and commitment and what it can do on the park.  The bigger body and a little more polish, imo, bought Webberley an extra year.  The body size, youth and two years of injuries bought Matt a two more years to make it.

[gerkin greg]

Nason was a fraggle and the joke of the competition.

He was a defensive liability, TBR liked him, he just had to go.

He also got an extended run in the seniors, something Dea hasn't been afforded yet.

[Coach]

fraggle stick car

my mum hates Nason.

[WilliamPowell]

I reckon its age and body size WP.

Matt was bottom aged.  Ben was 20/21.  And yeah Dimma seems to love that body size and commitment and what it can do on the park.  The bigger body and a little more polish, imo, bought Webberley an extra year.  The body size, youth and two years of injuries bought Matt a two more years to make it.

Yep your probably right and I suppose that's what club do invest more time in kids out of the under age comps and also think you are right re Webberely

But I still think people (fans) have a right to question and discuss it without it being construed as "you are bagging the kid"

I think the "how long do you give him" (and BTW you can throw Post in as well) question is fair. Do you base it on games? Pre-seasons? time on the list?

To be honest no one has actually given a direct answer, people keep saying he needs more time but I am interested to know what people reckon that equates to

[Penelope]

more than 8 games broken up by long periods of injury for a start.

any player who earns a spot through form at coburg deserves a fair run to see if they can make the next step up. not every player is drafted ready to make play seniors and not every player can make the step up from VFL to AFl in a heartbeat. some take a bit of time and some wont do it all.

have a decent look at them and make a decision.

[WilliamPowell]

more than 8 games broken up by long periods of injury for a start.

any player who earns a spot through form at coburg deserves a fair run to see if they can make the next step up. not every player is drafted ready to make play seniors and not every player can make the step up from VFL to AFl in a heartbeat. some take a bit of time and some wont do it all.

have a decent look at them and make a decision.

OK based on that al,

If Dea was to play the rest of the season in the AFL that would take him to 25 odd games. Is that enough games to make a judgement? If it is and in your opinion you see no improvement or you think he isn't where you thought he should be or where you hoped he would be would you make a call then? Or do you wait another 12 months?

That's question

[Penelope]

if after 25 more games i had not seen too much improvement on what i have seen now, hadn't seen any real attributes that suggest he can make it, then i'd have no hesitation in getting rid of him.