What the hell could the recruiters be thinking

[WA Tiger]

If it's all Wallaces fault as you say who was there when Contin, Nason and Farmer were recruited this year??? Surley with King, Edwards and Nahas at the club the new regime should have looked at taller players.

Contin is 18 years old, over 6ft tall (181cm) and weighs 81kgs already!  He is 1cm shorter than Gary Ablett and Joel Selwood, he is taller than Marc Murphy.  How does he get included in your list?

Sorry I meant Hicks.

[WA Tiger]

If it's all Wallaces fault as you say who was there when Contin, Nason and Farmer were recruited this year??? Surley with King, Edwards and Nahas at the club the new regime should have looked at taller players.

There is going to come a time soon when Wallace can be blamed no more. That will come at the end of the year if Hardwick hangs on to all of the above players with the exception of Nason who I believe will offer something.

Hardwick had nothing to do with the players traded, delisted or drafted over the summer. At the most his opinion of the list and player type he wanted may have been included in draft selections.

The tradings and delistings were done by Campbell and Cameron, as were contract extensions. The drafting was done by Jackson under instructions from Cameron and Campbell according to their idea of what was required.

At the end of the year Hardwick may (and should) have more influence over the list but it will still be Cameron handing out contracts.

Well when March and co were selecting the Coach to take over from Wallace he said during one of his interviews that they wanted to get the coach in ASAP so he could be involved with the recruiting and draft period. So unless that changed then I am not sure what you are saying??

[Smokey]

If it's all Wallaces fault as you say who was there when Contin, Nason and Farmer were recruited this year??? Surley with King, Edwards and Nahas at the club the new regime should have looked at taller players.

There is going to come a time soon when Wallace can be blamed no more. That will come at the end of the year if Hardwick hangs on to all of the above players with the exception of Nason who I believe will offer something.

Hardwick had nothing to do with the players traded, delisted or drafted over the summer. At the most his opinion of the list and player type he wanted may have been included in draft selections.

The tradings and delistings were done by Campbell and Cameron, as were contract extensions. The drafting was done by Jackson under instructions from Cameron and Campbell according to their idea of what was required.

At the end of the year Hardwick may (and should) have more influence over the list but it will still be Cameron handing out contracts.

Well when March and co were selecting the Coach to take over from Wallace he said during one of his interviews that they wanted to get the coach in ASAP so he could be involved with the recruiting and draft period. So unless that changed then I am not sure what you are saying??

Yep, can't see anyway on God's green earth that Hardwick didn't have the majority input to delisting, trading and drafting.  He was in the job long enough before any of this went on to know and get what he wanted.

[TigerLand]

Ramps, have said for the past 4 years they have no idea down there.
Seen the Gold Coast players at Christmas time. Who ever is running the show up there has an idea.
NOT ONE MIDGET.
All players are 6ft and over and built like machines

You idiot horribly wrong...

I travelled up there with our Eastern Ranges boys and Ranges smashed them and Gold Coast were full of raw 18 year old kids. Not balls of muscle.. ffs.

If your going to have a dig get it right.

[Mr Magic]

Ramps, have said for the past 4 years they have no idea down there.
Seen the Gold Coast players at Christmas time. Who ever is running the show up there has an idea.
NOT ONE MIDGET.
All players are 6ft and over and built like machines

You idiot horribly wrong...

I travelled up there with our Eastern Ranges boys and Ranges smashed them and Gold Coast were full of raw 18 year old kids. Not balls of muscle.. ffs.

If your going to have a dig get it right.

Well said.
Carostar paints it as if they're all built like Batista.

[Penelope]

Gold coast's list as of oct last year.

http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=81600

[jackstar is back again]

Ramps, have said for the past 4 years they have no idea down there.
Seen the Gold Coast players at Christmas time. Who ever is running the show up there has an idea.
NOT ONE MIDGET.
All players are 6ft and over and built like machines

You idiot horribly wrong...

I travelled up there with our Eastern Ranges boys and Ranges smashed them and Gold Coast were full of raw 18 year old kids. Not balls of muscle.. ffs.

If your going to have a dig get it right.

WELL HELLO
watched them train when on holidays.
I am talking about what there fielding in the VFL.

[TigerLand]

There not big.

They have 2 player above 90kgs on there whole list thus far. 3 if you want to include Hunt.

Its more about developing size then recruiting big players.

Height I agree with, we're too short. But in terms of size thats a fitness development issue not drafting or recruiting. Can't think of any Tiger that has had an enourmous pre season like a Goddard did 6 years ago where he put on 9kgs.

[tony_montana]

If it's all Wallaces fault as you say who was there when Contin, Nason and Farmer were recruited this year??? Surley with King, Edwards and Nahas at the club the new regime should have looked at taller players.

There is going to come a time soon when Wallace can be blamed no more. That will come at the end of the year if Hardwick hangs on to all of the above players with the exception of Nason who I believe will offer something.

Hardwick had nothing to do with the players traded, delisted or drafted over the summer. At the most his opinion of the list and player type he wanted may have been included in draft selections.

The tradings and delistings were done by Campbell and Cameron, as were contract extensions. The drafting was done by Jackson under instructions from Cameron and Campbell according to their idea of what was required.

At the end of the year Hardwick may (and should) have more influence over the list but it will still be Cameron handing out contracts.

Well when March and co were selecting the Coach to take over from Wallace he said during one of his interviews that they wanted to get the coach in ASAP so he could be involved with the recruiting and draft period. So unless that changed then I am not sure what you are saying??

Yep, can't see anyway on God's green earth that Hardwick didn't have the majority input to delisting, trading and drafting.  He was in the job long enough before any of this went on to know and get what he wanted.

had an input but not majority, delistings and list management was well on its way to be done before hardwick was appointed, think he'll have a bigger say this season with a year under the belt....i also recall him mentioning he didnt have a problem with all bar 1 of the delistings so no biggie

[the claw]

hicks was the only really small player drafted, the likes of dea, contin, roberts, martin all have size about them..

Well said.

When the likes of Astbury, Dea and Griffiths(who's built like the hulk) come in to the senior team I expect these whinging threads to fade out.

We also have Gourdis, Rance & Graham at Coburg in terms of muscle if that's what some are after, unfortunately it looks like they aren't up to it in terms of skill.

My only regret atm is that we didn't bring another ruckman onto the rookie list last season once Patto departed. I understand that we needed to strengthen the small forward category but when I look at our ruck division it's extremely light on now that it's apparent Simmonds is not up to it.

you put a lot of eggs in to one basket bud.
i count 14 players 181 or under on the list whats that mantra ive been going on about, oh yeah bigger stronger faster with skill.
some of us did complain about player type taken last yr and got fobbed of with there was no other types with the necaesary skills what a lot of jumbo mumbo from the defenders of all things richmond.
farmer hicks roberts webberley nason contin thats 6 all 181 or under. and we added them to foley cousins edwards king tambling white gilligan nahas. sheesh move over terry  the new lot have arrived.

magic you know ive gone on about this sort of thing for yrs over at pre its not something out of the blue.
i got ripped into by some  over there whos poo dont stink at the moment because i dared speak the obvious.
i wonder how many actually rated the last draft as ordinary. yep we met a skills criteria great about time but the criteria should be well rounded footballers who can kick.
theres a place for half a dozeb smalls on your list but they need to be in the main very good to high quality.

[Infamy]

Claw - Please list the talls you would have taken at pick 67 and later instead of Nason & Webberley

[RedanTiger]

What on earth could be running through the monds of a recruiter when they're about to draft blokes who are to small or cant kick

I cant actually fathom how a recruiter can go to draft day and call out names like

Shane Edwards, Robin Nahas, Jake King, Daniel Jackson, Tom Hislop, Adam Thomson, Matthew White, Shane Tuck just to name afew, what on earth compels a club to give up pick 18 for Jordan McMahon

As supporters we are entitled to our opinions, sometimes they are right sometimes wrong, and this isnt a slight on these boys who give there all and are doing there best, but I cant actually fathom how a recruiter/s can call out these names on a draft day or agree to give up a pick for a player.

Doesnt the recruiter/s understand that for example Edwards, Nahas, King are to small for AFL footy and even if you pick 1of this type- what justification is there to then add a couple more, what runs through recruiters minds when they call out the names of players whose disposal of the footy is a key weakness. How is it possible that so many mistakes can be made and then not made just once, but repeated time and time again. How can a club make so many mistakes time and time again!

While I generally agree with your outrage, to be fair the players you name were mostly picked late, so they were going to have some defects.

Edwards - 26, Nahas - rookie, King - rookie, Jackson - 53, Hislop - 58, Thomson - 42, White - PSD, Tuck - 73.

[Infamy]

Doesnt the recruiter/s understand that for example Edwards, Nahas, King are to small for AFL footy

Makes you wonder how players like Phil Matera (171cm), Brent Harvey (172cm (was listed at 168cm a few years ago), Chance Bateman (174cm), Shane Crawford (174cm), David Wirrpanda (173cm), Peter Bell (175cm) and even Ben Cousins (a massive 179cm) ever became anything more than B grade players, clearly their height means that they are too small for AFL football.

Edwards (180cm), Nahas (176cm) and King (178cm) are absolute midgets compared to that lot, they don't have a chance

[Smokey]

Just to provide some balance in this debate, I had a look at the other lists for players 181cm and shorter.

Brisbane have 6 players, 4 of whom are regular seniors.
Adelaide have 11 players, 6 of whom are regular seniors. (McLeod, Douglas, Johncock, Edwards, Porplyzia, Doughty)
Collingwood have 10 players, 3 of whom are regular seniors.
Bulldogs have 7 players, 4 of whom are regular seniors. (Gilbee, Eagleton, Harbrow, Akermanis)
Geelong have 9 players, 5 of whom are regular seniors. (Wojcinski, Varcoe, Chapman, Stokes, Byrnes)
Melbourne have 9 players, 6 of whom are regular seniors.
West Coast have 6 players, 2 of whom are regular seniors.
Sydney have 10 players, 6 of whom are regular seniors.
Carlton have 8 players, 6 of whom are regular seniors.
Essendon have 7 players, 4 of whom are regular seniors.
Fremantle have 7 players, 2 of whom are regular seniors.
Hawthorn have 13 players, 9 of whom are regular seniors. (Sewell, Mitchell, Ladson, Osborne, Rioli, Brown, Hooper, Bateman, Stokes)
Port Adelaide have 10 players, 6 of whom are regular seniors.
St Kilda have 7 players, 5 of whom are regular seniors. (Baker, McQualter, Schneider, Milne, Montagna)
Nth Melbourne have 10 players, 6 of whom are regular seniors.

We have 14 players, 7 of whom are regular seniors. (Tambling, Edwards, White, Cousins, King, Foley, Nahas)
And of our 7 remaining, 6 of them were recruited this year and 1 is a rookie from last year.

When you look at the players in the better teams, these shorter players are an integral and generally substantial part of the team balance, especially Adelaide, St Kilda and Hawthorn.

So maybe, just maybe, Hardwick looked at our list and knew that he was going to need 2 years of culling (too many for 1 year) and that he couldn't get all the talls he needed in 1 year so he used his early picks for better talls and topped up with smalls because the likelihood of a small 'hidden gem' going later was much better than a tall.  And next draft he might just be looking to do the same but he has the advantage of having already had 12 months to look at and develop his first group of smalls, already knowing that year 2 of his cull will be more of his smalls - Cousins, King, White, Gilligan, Edwards, Nahas - are all possibilities/probabilities.  And so maybe, just maybe, there is a very good reason that we appear to have more smalls than we need but through circumstances beyond his control and also with a view to the future years there are very good reasons for that.  After all, the tops teams don't appear to place such a low value on smalls that many of the closed mind, knee jerk, chicken little posters on here do.

[tony_montana]

Just to provide some balance in this debate, I had a look at the other lists for players 181cm and shorter.

Brisbane have 6 players, 4 of whom are regular seniors.
Adelaide have 11 players, 6 of whom are regular seniors. (McLeod, Douglas, Johncock, Edwards, Porplyzia, Doughty)
Collingwood have 10 players, 3 of whom are regular seniors.
Bulldogs have 7 players, 4 of whom are regular seniors. (Gilbee, Eagleton, Harbrow, Akermanis)
Geelong have 9 players, 5 of whom are regular seniors. (Wojcinski, Varcoe, Chapman, Stokes, Byrnes)
Melbourne have 9 players, 6 of whom are regular seniors.
West Coast have 6 players, 2 of whom are regular seniors.
Sydney have 10 players, 6 of whom are regular seniors.
Carlton have 8 players, 6 of whom are regular seniors.
Essendon have 7 players, 4 of whom are regular seniors.
Fremantle have 7 players, 2 of whom are regular seniors.
Hawthorn have 13 players, 9 of whom are regular seniors. (Sewell, Mitchell, Ladson, Osborne, Rioli, Brown, Hooper, Bateman, Stokes)
Port Adelaide have 10 players, 6 of whom are regular seniors.
St Kilda have 7 players, 5 of whom are regular seniors. (Baker, McQualter, Schneider, Milne, Montagna)
Nth Melbourne have 10 players, 6 of whom are regular seniors.

We have 14 players, 7 of whom are regular seniors. (Tambling, Edwards, White, Cousins, King, Foley, Nahas)
And of our 7 remaining, 6 of them were recruited this year and 1 is a rookie from last year.

When you look at the players in the better teams, these shorter players are an integral and generally substantial part of the team balance, especially Adelaide, St Kilda and Hawthorn.

So maybe, just maybe, Hardwick looked at our list and knew that he was going to need 2 years of culling (too many for 1 year) and that he couldn't get all the talls he needed in 1 year so he used his early picks for better talls and topped up with smalls because the likelihood of a small 'hidden gem' going later was much better than a tall.  And next draft he might just be looking to do the same but he has the advantage of having already had 12 months to look at and develop his first group of smalls, already knowing that year 2 of his cull will be more of his smalls - Cousins, King, White, Gilligan, Edwards, Nahas - are all possibilities/probabilities.  And so maybe, just maybe, there is a very good reason that we appear to have more smalls than we need but through circumstances beyond his control and also with a view to the future years there are very good reasons for that.  After all, the tops teams don't appear to place such a low value on smalls that many of the closed mind, knee jerk, chicken little posters on here do.

great logic and well thought out post as usual.

considering there are 5 or so on the chopping block - cuz, king, white, gilligan certainties off the top of my head I don't know why ppl are getting so worked up about it. Hardwick has a massive amount of work to do to 1) get this list balance right and 2) find afl calibre players within the structure of the list. Having a few extra smalls on the list in year 1 of a multiple year rebuild - pffft get over it whinging ninnies