List Management / Au revoir, Ciao, Goodbye. [merged]

[jackstar is back again]

Before you sack one player
Why dont you look at the coach.
WHO IS CLEARLY NOT UP TO THE TASK

LOL your a peetaking troll Jack.

I aint.

[Hellenic Tiger]

Before you sack one player
Why dont you look at the coach.
WHO IS CLEARLY NOT UP TO THE TASK

When that many players that Popelord mentioned are in the gun to go at the end of the season as they are not up to standard and there are definentely at least 4 or 5 players who were not even mentioned then how can you blame the coach when there are at least 15 blokes on this list as a minimum and at least 12 today who played.
To blame Hardwick on the state of the list is ludicrous and to blame him on the game plan that is in its infancy with useless players in the side is even more so. I think the jury is still out on Hardwick. After seven games and with the decay our list is in Hardwick cannot be held responsible in any way. If your finger is severed doctors don't cut off your arm from the shoulder. Jack its crazy to blame Hardwick for this.

I think every RFC member who held a membership from 2005-09 should take out a class action law suit against the Dried Sultana for negligence and claim damages the $600,000 a season he embezzled. Now there is your culprit.

 i agree with your thoughts on Wallace.
But facts are as follows.
Players have gone backwards under Hardwicks coaching, can name 8 if you want. ( i dont want players delisted at years end who can actually play, we dont want another David Rodan , do we ? )
The kick in are a joke, watched suburban footy yesterday and they have better idea
The stoppages are just as bad.
If you cant see that, check your eyes or your TV set

Some players are not up to task and you know who they are as most on here do. Once again you can't blame Hardwick for that. It not about adjusting tv sets or watching other games at AFL level or suburban or country level. It's just there are players on our list that would not be on any other AFL lists and unfortunantely we can't get rid of 25-30 players in one hit. McMahon is one of these players but has he had a look in this season? No. Says alot about our list especially the towelling Jordy has got from me and many others on the forum. More I think about it the more I think Hardwick is doing the right thing. Getting rid of the bad eggs is part of a whole process of change.

[Infamy]

No sour grapes u walk away from the game at 3qtr time and your a happy RFC member.

But the writing is on the wall
Not in the 2011 Richmond Jumper
Jackson
Tambling
Rance
Moore

And the players that arent good enough to get games in this side
Graham
King
McMahon

Retirees
Simmonds
Cousins

Will be lucky
Newman
Polak

Harsh on Polak, he was pretty good for his first game back this year.
Moore had Scott Stevens pretty much shut out of the game, he's been ok this year, I'd rather trade Newman who is easier to replace
Reckon Tambling was ok in the first half but terrible 2nd half, tough injury run this year, not going to give up on him yet
The rest I can't really complain about

[WA Tiger]

No sour grapes u walk away from the game at 3qtr time and your a happy RFC member.

But the writing is on the wall
Not in the 2011 Richmond Jumper
Jackson
Tambling
Rance
Moore

And the players that arent good enough to get games in this side
Graham
King
McMahon

Retirees
Simmonds
Cousins

Will be lucky
Newman
Polak

Harsh on Polak, he was pretty good for his first game back this year.
Moore had Scott Stevens pretty much shut out of the game, he's been ok this year, I'd rather trade Newman who is easier to replace
Reckon Tambling was ok in the first half but terrible 2nd half, tough injury run this year, not going to give up on him yet
The rest I can't really complain about

Thought you would have harked up more than that with this list Inf, Tambling & Rance both very young...

[Infamy]

Hard to argue on most of them, I'm harsher on Newman than most as well

Rance has been pretty bad, but will go on to another club and bite us on the ass far worse than anyone like Rodan ever did (even though it was the right decision to get rid of him)

Haven't given support to many/any of the others I didn't in my last post

[TigerLand]

Before you sack one player
Why dont you look at the coach.
WHO IS CLEARLY NOT UP TO THE TASK

Jack blaming the coach is just a cop out. Its the soft excuse and the easy way out we've used for 25 years, for far too long.

The coach you want/need the club to appoint to magically turn the side that has maybe 1-5 players that are capable of polling brownlow votes and 8-12 player that are capable of influence a result at AFL level by competing and contributing.

No man or woman on this earth can be appointed that can make this list competitive in 2010. (An amazingly harsh with all due respects to the players, but when your bottom 15 are VFL reserve standard, which is the result of Coburg 1's getting smashed you cant expect to get AFL standard contribution from your depth. Which is what makes St.Kilda/Geelong so good.)

Agree the stoppages are horrible. But the same is with Hawthorn, why? The disrespect both clubs has shown towards the positions of ruckman by not properly stocking the club with ruck stocks.

The kick ins have been a problem since I've been born. The magical wand that we've all expected a new coach to swing to fix has not happened, and thus our kick ins are still the worst in the AFL. What we can see and respect is that different plans have been tried. Better to have tried and failed then to continue to make the same mistakes (chipping around the backline for the last 10 years)

I promise you Malthouse or Thompson wouldn't have this list going in a better direction. We player 3 qtrs of decent football with confidence and in the last qtr we just fell over. That is not as a result of any deficiency of the game plan. The reason why we lost is because its a too big of ask for our team to play at there optimum level for 4 qtrs. They are human and have lull quiet periods. Our lull and quiet periods are noncompetitive. Compare that to a lull period for Geelong where they lazily start to let a side look competitive and you see the contrasts and differences.

[TigerLand]

Agree Inf, Polak was good today but he'll be 27 by the half way mark next year. He'll probably stay on the list, factors being others to go before him and we have KP deficiencies.

Youth isn't the word or category we should be focusing on when looking at our list. It's currency.

Rance and Tambling are both youngish in terms of the average football age. But you'd be trading Tambling for youth. Same with Rance.
Tambling and Rance are 15th-20th picked in the side. If you could replace them with a pick 15 and pick 30 your chance to pick up a Rioli, Melksham, Bastinac type player.

List Management is the key IMO. No gameplan or messiah player or coach will fix our club. the next 2 years list decisions will make or break us.

Upgrade currency.
A trade of Deledio to Gold Coast for Picks 2 and 3.
Trade Newman and Moore for pick 18 to Brisbane.
Trade Foley and pick 29 for pick 10 to Essendon.
Trade Tambling to Sydney for pick 22

We finish last and we have picks 2, 3, 4, 10, 18, 22. Minus Deledio, Newman, Moore, Foley and Tambling.

Its hypothetical but all of a sudden you start to get the idea of the formula that can turn the list around. Finish bottom 4 again next year and you can start to look at trading a Rance or Post plus a 4th rounder pick for a high 2nd rounder etc..

It not about youth or potential its about currency. Keep your currency and you can sustain success. Hold onto playes for too long and you lose currency. There is no reason to hold onto players that wont be in your next premiership.

[Infamy]

Upgrade currency.
A trade of Deledio to Gold Coast for Picks 2 and 3.
Trade Newman and Moore for pick 18 to Brisbane.
Trade Foley and pick 29 for pick 10 to Essendon.
Trade Tambling to Sydney for pick 22

We finish last and we have picks 2, 3, 4, 10, 18, 22. Minus Deledio, Newman, Moore, Foley and Tambling.

We wouldn't win a game for 2 years if we did that

[Tigermonk]

Popelord l dont know what planet your on but you are seriously all stuffed up
you must think every club in the afl will stand aside to let RFC get what they want
grow a brain waterboy 

[Tigeritis™©®]

IMO I think it has been unlucky to be drafted to Richmond.
I'm sure some of these kids must have been absolute guns before draft day but now they are just going backwards.

As a father I would be wrapped that my son got drafted to Richmond, but deep down I would be peeed if I seen a young player drafted from the same club as my son, to say Collingwood and not as good as my son but in 5 years he was lauded as a future star & my son was going backwards in his development. 

IMO we are 3-5 years behind most clubs in this area. Let's hope with the new facilities finally being built and the new development department finally being implimented with some full time people hopefully all these new players can be taught and developed and we see sustained improvement.
For those players that are too infected with Tigeritis (ie. Tambling) then we must let them go they will be another clubs problem. But for those players which are only mildly infected maybe HARDwick & his merry men can cure them before it's too late. 

[eliminator]

Agree with Tuckerbag. Jury still out on Hardwick. For us to be competitive a big clean out is needed. Get rid of White as well. I would keep Moore. He has tried hard this year. Was very good against Melbourne. Trade Newman. Desperately need a ruckman.

[Smokey]

Jack blaming the coach is just a cop out. Its the soft excuse and the easy way out we've used for 25 years, for far too long.

The coach you want/need the club to appoint to magically turn the side that has maybe 1-5 players that are capable of polling brownlow votes and 8-12 player that are capable of influence a result at AFL level by competing and contributing.

No man or woman on this earth can be appointed that can make this list competitive in 2010. (An amazingly harsh with all due respects to the players, but when your bottom 15 are VFL reserve standard, which is the result of Coburg 1's getting smashed you cant expect to get AFL standard contribution from your depth. Which is what makes St.Kilda/Geelong so good.)

Agree the stoppages are horrible. But the same is with Hawthorn, why? The disrespect both clubs has shown towards the positions of ruckman by not properly stocking the club with ruck stocks.

The kick ins have been a problem since I've been born. The magical wand that we've all expected a new coach to swing to fix has not happened, and thus our kick ins are still the worst in the AFL. What we can see and respect is that different plans have been tried. Better to have tried and failed then to continue to make the same mistakes (chipping around the backline for the last 10 years)

I promise you Malthouse or Thompson wouldn't have this list going in a better direction. We player 3 qtrs of decent football with confidence and in the last qtr we just fell over. That is not as a result of any deficiency of the game plan. The reason why we lost is because its a too big of ask for our team to play at there optimum level for 4 qtrs. They are human and have lull quiet periods. Our lull and quiet periods are noncompetitive. Compare that to a lull period for Geelong where they lazily start to let a side look competitive and you see the contrasts and differences.

Yep, fully agree and add to that the age of our kids means that it is a physical impossibility to keep up that intensity and run out 4 full quarters.  They don't have the stamina or physicality to do that yet.  Physically impossible, regardless of how hard you try or how much you want it.  All those applauding the decision to clean out the list need to keep that in mind when assessing each game on it's merits.  The only games we will win this year will be ones where we are in front by a bit at 3/4 time.

[jackstar is back again]

Before you sack one player
Why dont you look at the coach.
WHO IS CLEARLY NOT UP TO THE TASK

Jack blaming the coach is just a cop out. Its the soft excuse and the easy way out we've used for 25 years, for far too long.

The coach you want/need the club to appoint to magically turn the side that has maybe 1-5 players that are capable of polling brownlow votes and 8-12 player that are capable of influence a result at AFL level by competing and contributing.

No man or woman on this earth can be appointed that can make this list competitive in 2010. (An amazingly harsh with all due respects to the players, but when your bottom 15 are VFL reserve standard, which is the result of Coburg 1's getting smashed you cant expect to get AFL standard contribution from your depth. Which is what makes St.Kilda/Geelong so good.)

Agree the stoppages are horrible. But the same is with Hawthorn, why? The disrespect both clubs has shown towards the positions of ruckman by not properly stocking the club with ruck stocks.

The kick ins have been a problem since I've been born. The magical wand that we've all expected a new coach to swing to fix has not happened, and thus our kick ins are still the worst in the AFL. What we can see and respect is that different plans have been tried. Better to have tried and failed then to continue to make the same mistakes (chipping around the backline for the last 10 years)

I promise you Malthouse or Thompson wouldn't have this list going in a better direction. We player 3 qtrs of decent football with confidence and in the last qtr we just fell over. That is not as a result of any deficiency of the game plan. The reason why we lost is because its a too big of ask for our team to play at there optimum level for 4 qtrs. They are human and have lull quiet periods. Our lull and quiet periods are noncompetitive. Compare that to a lull period for Geelong where they lazily start to let a side look competitive and you see the contrasts and differences.

Why do you think I am harsh on Hardwick?
Who is to blame for the players being instructed to kicks to contests at kick ins and to the opposition ruckman TWO weeks in a row? The Bootstudder ?
And who is to blame for the onballers standing behind the opponents at Centre Bounces ?? The waterboys ?
HARDWICK CANT GET THE BASICS RIGHT, how on earth are we going to go forward, YOU TELL ME.
And look at the players that have gone backwards?
I dont want Richard Tambling to leave, but he will turn into another Dave Rodan if he left.
Richard Tambling can play, just ask Jade Rawlings,

[Smokey]

Why do you think I am harsh on Hardwick?
Who is to blame for the players being instructed to kicks to contests at kick ins and to the opposition ruckman TWO weeks in a row? The Bootstudder ?
And who is to blame for the onballers standing behind the opponents at Centre Bounces ?? The waterboys ?
HARDWICK CANT GET THE BASICS RIGHT, how on earth are we going to go forward, YOU TELL ME.
And look at the players that have gone backwards?
I dont want Richard Tambling to leave, but he will turn into another Dave Rodan if he left.
Richard Tambling can play, just ask Jade Rawlings,

Jack, you must have to replace the <CTRL> <V> keys on your keyboard with monotonous regularity!

[TigerLand]

Upgrade currency.
A trade of Deledio to Gold Coast for Picks 2 and 3.
Trade Newman and Moore for pick 18 to Brisbane.
Trade Foley and pick 29 for pick 10 to Essendon.
Trade Tambling to Sydney for pick 22

We finish last and we have picks 2, 3, 4, 10, 18, 22. Minus Deledio, Newman, Moore, Foley and Tambling.

We wouldn't win a game for 2 years if we did that

Long term Infamy.

We wont win a premiership in Newman or Moore's AFL lifetime. Must trade their currency. The only hard trade to swallow would be Deledio but if we were compensated properly we would benefit long term.

It's harsh but if guys that retired playing at Richmond were traded 3-4 years earlier we'd have kept that currency on our list instead of having that currency lost to being retired.

Building a list is all about upgrading currency. In 3 years time you could trade a Ben Nason for a 3rd round pick. Effectively you have turned your pick 71 into a 3rd rounder that could be a Ryan Bastinac or David Astbury.