Tanking verses Belief, Structure and Faith?

[TigerTimeII]

ill give you a few reasons why Geelong never had to bottom out, tank or whatever you wanna call it

Gary Ablett
Matthew Scarlett
Tom Hawkins

Spot on.



And generally other than that it was what they did with picks between 20 and 60 that got them where they are (Ling, Johnson etc)

thats bs

hawkins still is not proven and we had our fair share of father sons

richo bowden bourke etc

ablett was not that great when he started ,  bs excuses

[torch]

ill give you a few reasons why Geelong never had to bottom out, tank or whatever you wanna call it

Gary Ablett
Matthew Scarlett
Tom Hawkins

they were all Father and Son picks?

 ???

[WilliamPowell]

ill give you a few reasons why Geelong never had to bottom out, tank or whatever you wanna call it

Gary Ablett
Matthew Scarlett
Tom Hawkins

Spot on.



And generally other than that it was what they did with picks between 20 and 60 that got them where they are (Ling, Johnson etc)

thats bs

hawkins still is not proven and we had our fair share of father sons

richo bowden bourke etc

ablett was not that great when he started ,  bs excuses

Actually X it is spot on the money - they didn't need to TANK (actually it supports your agrument  ).

Yes they got the benefit of the old Father/Son rule but they have got it right with their late drafting.... even in their premiership years they've got good kids late in the draft 

[the_boy_jake]

Actually X it is spot on the money - they didn't need to TANK (actually it supports your agrument  ).

 

[camboon]

Keep playing  all the kids (not the older fringe players), put those who need surgery in if they need to, dont play players who are injured (like Wallace)and if we keep winning then fine, we dont need the higher pick because we are closer than what we first thought.
Either ways a win in my book-

[mightytiges]

It has been our greatest folly over the last 5 years that we haven't made the tough decisions as a club and rebuilt over consequent years but rather done a half behindd job at it. I'd rather finish down the botto of the ladder for 3 years in a row than 3 times over 6 years like we have to do now.

We need to take our medicine properly so we can actually improve rather than always sit between 16th and 9th! If we are going to win between 4 and 7 regardless of effort then I say we need to ensure that it is 4 where there is at least some benefits!

Spot on Stripes. No more short cuts or getting ahead of ourselves because we've beaten a few bottom 8 sides. We are still daylight away from the top sides and need to add more quality to add depth to our list.

It's no point comparing drafting now to 10 years ago. Recruiting is far more sophisticated now and the father-son rule has changed so that a Geelong would no longer be allowed to pick up both Hawkins and Selwood in the one draft. Look at the recent drafts. Fewer and fewer of the top kids are now turning out to be duds. In fact most of the first rounders especially inside the top 5 have cemented a spot in their team's best 22 early on in their career and a number are on their way to becoming future A-graders. It's turning out that more and more of the elite talent is being found early on in the draft. Sheesh our 3 best young mids are all top 3 picks. Sure there are talented kids found later in the draft which is where a recruiter earns his money but there are more misses than hits. It's why a number of clubs are publicly concerned about the draft concessions being offered to GC17 and GWS. Clubs that finish mid-ladder or higher will be frozen out of the 'normal' first round of draft meaning most will miss out on accessing future elite talent. That's why finishing last this year isn't such a bad thing. We'd be the only existing club with a top 5 pick which would give us an advantage. Drafting is about playing the odds and doing your homework.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_AFL_Draft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_AFL_Draft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_AFL_Draft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_AFL_Draft

[TigerTimeII]

ill give you a few reasons why Geelong never had to bottom out, tank or whatever you wanna call it

Gary Ablett
Matthew Scarlett
Tom Hawkins

Spot on.



And generally other than that it was what they did with picks between 20 and 60 that got them where they are (Ling, Johnson etc)

thats bs

hawkins still is not proven and we had our fair share of father sons

richo bowden bourke etc

ablett was not that great when he started ,  bs excuses

Actually X it is spot on the money - they didn't need to TANK (actually it supports your agrument  ).

Yes they got the benefit of the old Father/Son rule but they have got it right with their late drafting.... even in their premiership years they've got good kids late in the draft 

sh! 

[FooffooValve]

You can't develop a winning culture by turning it on and off according to your ladder position. Tanking for picks is a mirage.

[Penelope]

Hardwick will not deliberately lose games, he has too much integrity.

[torch]

very interesting ...

our 2006 draft under "The Tanned One" was not so bad ...

Draft:
Jack Riewoldt     @ 13   (1st R)
Shane Edwards   @ 26   (2nd R)
Daniel Connors    @ 58   (4th R)
Carl Peterson     @ 60    (4th R)
Andrew Collins    @ 73    (5th R)

Rookies:
Pick 8 - Tasman Clingan
Pick 24 - Jake King

Trades:
Pick 8 (Ried, Coll) & Pick 42 (Houli, Ess) for Graham Polak & Pick 13 (Riewoldt, Rich) & Pick 63 (Goldsack, Coll)?

Pre-Season:
Pick 6 - Kent Kingsley

obviously, the actual draft of 2006 their are four out of five that are still with us.

to me, the coaching development has worked under Hardwick.

so with more draft picks, the better we will be!

 

[Infamy]

very interesting ...

our 2006 draft under "The Tanned One" was not so bad ...

Draft:
Jack Riewoldt     @ 13   (1st R)
Shane Edwards   @ 26   (2nd R)
Daniel Connors    @ 58   (4th R)
Carl Peterson     @ 60    (4th R)
Andrew Collins    @ 73    (5th R)

Rookies:
Pick 8 - Tasman Clingan
Pick 24 - Jake King

Trades:
Pick 8 (Ried, Coll) & Pick 42 (Houli, Ess) for Graham Polak & Pick 13 (Riewoldt, Rich) & Pick 63 (Goldsack, Coll)?

Pre-Season:
Pick 6 - Kent Kingsley

obviously, the actual draft of 2006 their are four out of five that are still with us.

to me, the coaching development has worked under Hardwick.

so with more draft picks, the better we will be!

 

Part of the reason this draft is starting to look good is due to these players now being in their 4th year, a few good preasons and decent AFL experience. Hopefully the kids we grabbed in 2007 will start coming good next year.

[RollsRoyce]

MT where would you say the weaknesses are on our list that need addressing with top picks? Not so long ago I would have pointed to any number of areas, the most glaring being a lack of key defenders. But with Astbury, Rance and Post developing well, along with Gourdis and Grimes still waiting in the wings, I think we're right down back.
Then there were the lack of key forwards. But Jack has suddenly rocketed up another level, while Griffiths is showing signs of developing,and Astbury and Post looking capable of rotating from CHB through CHF, as well as Westhoff showing consistent form at Coburg.
Then there was that old chestnut the rucks, which everybody was worried about not so long ago. We could probably add another one in the draft. But it's not pressing with the Graham and Vickery combination working well, and Browne pushing for senior selection.
As for our midfield, I'd stack it up against any in the competition.
For mine the thing we're probably still lacking the most is someone to stop little pests like Milne, Betts, and Rioli. Otherwise I reckon if we keep putting games into our existing list, we'll be ready to make our run anytime soon. To hell with begging scraps from a series of compromised drafts all the way up to 2013.
 

[Stripes]

MT where would you say the weaknesses are on our list that need addressing with top picks? Not so long ago I would have pointed to any number of areas, the most glaring being a lack of key defenders. But with Astbury, Rance and Post developing well, along with Gourdis and Grimes still waiting in the wings, I think we're right down back.
Then there were the lack of key forwards. But Jack has suddenly rocketed up another level, while Griffiths is showing signs of developing,and Astbury and Post looking capable of rotating from CHB through CHF, as well as Westhoff showing consistent form at Coburg.
Then there was that old chestnut the rucks, which everybody was worried about not so long ago. We could probably add another one in the draft. But it's not pressing with the Graham and Vickery combination working well, and Browne pushing for senior selection.
As for our midfield, I'd stack it up against any in the competition.
For mine the thing we're probably still lacking the most is someone to stop little pests like Milne, Betts, and Rioli. Otherwise I reckon if we keep putting games into our existing list, we'll be ready to make our run anytime soon. To hell with begging scraps from a series of compromised drafts all the way up to 2013.
 

I like your optimism RR! I remember most supporters thinking a similiar thing after the great 2004 draft with our midfield stocks high with Lids, Bling, Meyer, Polo and White  with Johnson, Tuck and Campbell leading the way. Up forward we had Schulz, Brown and Richo and Kingsley as backup. In ruck the young Patto would support our new head ruck Simmonds with Knobel stepping up. Done back we had our AA fullback Gaspar with Bowden also supporting...so where are we now 

My point is, that before we put all our eggs in one basket I think we need to wait and see and just in case some of these promising players don't step up lets recruit some talent to at least add depth and competition to the list.

Stripes

[RollsRoyce]

I like your optimism RR! I remember most supporters thinking a similiar thing after the great 2004 draft with our midfield stocks high with Lids, Bling, Meyer, Polo and White  with Johnson, Tuck and Campbell leading the way. Up forward we had Schulz, Brown and Richo and Kingsley as backup. In ruck the young Patto would support our new head ruck Simmonds with Knobel stepping up. Done back we had our AA fullback Gaspar with Bowden also supporting...so where are we now 

My point is, that before we put all our eggs in one basket I think we need to wait and see and just in case some of these promising players don't step up lets recruit some talent to at least add depth and competition to the list.

Stripes

Yeah, I don't know where all this new-found optimism is coming from, it's so unlike me. The prozac must be kicking in
But seriously: I remember being absolutely underwhelmed with our 2004 draft at the time. I wanted either one of Roughead or Franklin, plus more key position players, and was crushed that we used so many top 20 picks on skinny flankers. And time, plus Buddy's continuing brilliance has only confirmed my fears back then. I know what you're saying Stripes. There have been many false dawns along the road to the Tigers resurgence, and I've seen them all over these last BLEAK thirty years, as I'm sure you have. But something just feels different this time. The buzz around the place with Hardwick and these players reminds me off those heady days of Northey in 94/95. And before any cynic replies "well look what happened there", I'd say that unfortunately in that instance the club shot itself in the foot once again, before we were able to really reap the long-term fruits of that partnership.
I have absolute faith in Hardwick, his assistants, our recruiters, and MOST of our current playing list.   

[Stripes]

I like your optimism RR! I remember most supporters thinking a similiar thing after the great 2004 draft with our midfield stocks high with Lids, Bling, Meyer, Polo and White  with Johnson, Tuck and Campbell leading the way. Up forward we had Schulz, Brown and Richo and Kingsley as backup. In ruck the young Patto would support our new head ruck Simmonds with Knobel stepping up. Done back we had our AA fullback Gaspar with Bowden also supporting...so where are we now 

My point is, that before we put all our eggs in one basket I think we need to wait and see and just in case some of these promising players don't step up lets recruit some talent to at least add depth and competition to the list.

Stripes

Yeah, I don't know where all this new-found optimism is coming from, it's so unlike me. The prozac must be kicking in
But seriously: I remember being absolutely underwhelmed with our 2004 draft at the time. I wanted either one of Roughead or Franklin, plus more key position players, and was crushed that we used so many top 20 picks on skinny flankers. And time, plus Buddy's continuing brilliance has only confirmed my fears back then. I know what you're saying Stripes. There have been many false dawns along the road to the Tigers resurgence, and I've seen them all over these last BLEAK thirty years, as I'm sure you have. But something just feels different this time. The buzz around the place with Hardwick and these players reminds me off those heady days of Northey in 94/95. And before any cynic replies "well look what happened there", I'd say that unfortunately in that instance the club shot itself in the foot once again, before we were able to really reap the long-term fruits of that partnership.
I have absolute faith in Hardwick, his assistants, our recruiters, and MOST of our current playing list.   

Good points RR and I have to say I feel the difference too! Still I think we need to continue to build the list unlike what the club didn't do once Northey moved. I don't want another Frawley top up or Wallace save my behind year because we have deviated from the hard yards. I want to see the wins but not at the expense of a future premiership. I just want as my quality players and depth to our list as possible while we can. As soon as we begin to march up the ladder that opportunity will go so while we have a chance I say use it, regardless of the short term pain it inflicts. As you said, whats another half year of tears compared to the 30 we have already endured 

Don't think it will happen now regardless because Hardwick is too good. Sad when succeeding becomes a potential negative but that's the flawed system now isn't it. 

Stripes