Australian Politics thread [merged]

[Tigeritis™©®]

Can you both acknowledge that Julia & the labour party deceived the voting public on carbon tax?
Can you both acknowledge she and her deceiving party should have gone to the election with this agenda?
 

1/ Yes she broke her promise on the carbon tax - not disputing it for a minute. But will say it again she isn't the first and won't be the last pollie to do it... Howard, Keating, Hawke, Fraser they all did it. Hell even Rudd did it by not having the "balls" to call an election and double disolution over his ETS - would won in a landslide IMHO. But he changed that policy mid term but just putting in a drawer somewhere - he was elected on the back of that ETS policy promise

2/ No - because some times you need to change policy during govt, we don't like it but it's the way it goes. It happens in business and this is what is happening here. Again the current govt aren't the first and wont be the last. Strong govts make tough and at times unpopular decisions - how strong this one is will be determined by this Tax and a number of other policies ...

So what do you make of Malcolm Turnball - traitor amongst the Libs, wanna be Leader or just a lowlife under mining Tony. He supports a carbon tax like he did a ETS - it cost him his job when he was knifed in the back by Tony. Please don't paint the Libs as being "lily whites" in the art of deception especially Tony Abbott 

thanks for your answers WP. Malcom turnball you can have him. IMO he'd make an excellent labour leader.  

on governments changing their minds on policy might be ok when it doesn't effect everyday austalian peoples livelyhood. When it effects alot of jobs (ie.workchoices), or our cost of living by way of major tax reform we must as a public be allowed to vote for it as we did the GST. You want a mandate from the people whom you serve, then take it to the people!!!  

[Tigeritis™©®]

Is there anything they actually did well?

Yeah I would think that keeping this country out of recession during the GFC when practically every other country went into recession is a bloody good achievement

For memory Tony & his treasuer in waiting (or is that leader in waiting  ) Hockey would have happily sent us into recession instead

c'mon WP. You know liberals was only against the BER and the pink batt scheme which was nothing but wasteful spending by the government. We didn't have a subprime mortgage crisis like USA. China's stimulus kept the resources exporting and last of all we wasn't in debt prior to the GFC like most other nations that are in debt now.

exactly!!!
it's another debate completely, which other country and it's stimulus spending actually saved it from recession? The arguement is that it wasn't solely spending that saved us it was alot of factors that helped us. Is there anything else that this labour government has done right?  They can't even get their leader right!!

[WilliamPowell]

c'mon WP. You know liberals was only against the BER and the pink batt scheme which was nothing but wasteful spending by the government. We didn't have a subprime mortgage crisis like USA. China's stimulus kept the resources exporting and last of all we wasn't in debt prior to the GFC like most other nations that are in debt now.

Sorry Mr Tigra - Tony & Joe were against the all of the stimulus plans put forward by the govt. Dont forget they blocked the first stimulus payment that the govt wanted to give each taxpayer...

they offerend no concrete alternative they just said (paraphrasing of course) "there's a GFC and it means recession for all ecomonies -nothing we can do" 

As for the BER - I think a few people need to go and visit a few schools, especially around regional Victoria and look at some of the benefits of that program. Can assure you Yackadandah Primary is pretty happy to have a new classrooms that bring it into the 21st century as opposed to what they had before. The entire thing wasn't a waste 

 

[tiger101]

all that BER did was make builders busy for a couple of extra months. We have a housing shortage yes prices can come back a little but there not in free fall like in the USA and European country's. Best thing Rudd did was guarantee the banks so they could keep business going while the global market was tightening credit. Pink batt scheme was nothing more of a disaster for the industry that lead to deaths and corruption which has lead to cost blow outs of having to get projects rechecked for safety.

[tiga]

WP, Do you honestly think that Gillard changed her mind on the Carbon Tax AFTER she was elected? Go and have a chat to Bob Brown. When asked in a press conference about his opinion on the Labor Government back pedaling on a carbon tax just prior to the election he said "From what he was told, a Carbon tax still going ahead as planned". Gillard Deceived us! (Well not me because I didn't vote for her) How do you think they got the greens preferences in the first place? It was all smoke and mirrors.

I can imagine Juliar saying to Bob Brown.... "Shhh secret squirrel on this Bob, We will tell the great unwashed that there will be no carbon tax, then we get elected and then bam we change....our.....mind."

This Government is now too busy trying to stay in power rather than making effective policy and we are starting to pay for it. They have become the masters of deflection. Wasting precious parliamentary time on accusations of sexism and racism or anything that deflects attention from effectively debating the real issues. (Shiny ball! Look! Shiny ball!  )

Why don't they just bring in Kenny Craig as the next climate change minister...."Look into my eyes, look into my eyes, the eyes, the eyes, not around the eyes, don't look around the eyes, look into my eyes. [click] You're under!....Global warming is happening at a disastrous rate and you must say YES!" 3,2,1....[click] You're back in the room...

[1965]

and we have another two years of this crap (the pollies not the posters) to put up with from both sides.

 

[WilliamPowell]

thanks for your answers WP. Malcom turnball you can have him. IMO he'd make an excellent labour leader.  

on governments changing their minds on policy might be ok when it doesn't effect everyday austalian peoples livelyhood. When it effects alot of jobs (ie.workchoices), or our cost of living by way of major tax reform we must as a public be allowed to vote for it as we did the GST. You want a mandate from the people whom you serve, then take it to the people!!!  

But isn't this whole mandate the crux of the issue. Back in August we as a nation couldn't decide who to give the mandate too hence why we have what we have now. We had the opportunity and we as voters couldn't decide so now we have what we have like it or not. We need to take our medicine so to speak  

Are people that niave to think that if Lib/Nats were in govt they wouldn't be having to to deals with the Greens, indpendants as well. Please lets get real. No minority govt will go to the polls unless they absolutely have to. And if you think for one minute the Coalition would be doing things differently then you are living in noddy land

The other thing is everyone is assuming that if we have another election it would result in a result - got a news flash it isn't that clear cut IMO.

Polls mean very little if you are not polling in the right seats. You show me polling in the 5 most marginal seats in the country and I'll start paying attention. I ask has anyone on this site ever been polled?

for example here in Victoria for our new state Lib/Nat govt who've been in power since Nov are already starting to get up the noses of voters; which is no great surprise when you have Ministers sleeping in parliament, missing voting sessions and avoiding the one thing they really won the election and that is promising transparency and the ideal of open & honest govt. So based on that i reckon federal numbers in Vic would hold

Like last time NSW would be the key state & I wonder if the majority having given out the whacks last Aug and then in the state election if the whacking is to a degree done with.

WP, Do you honestly think that Gillard changed her mind on the Carbon Tax AFTER she was elected? Go and have a chat to Bob Brown. When asked in a press conference about his opinion on the Labor Government back pedaling on a carbon tax just prior to the election he said "From what he was told, a Carbon tax still going ahead as planned". Gillard Deceived us! (Well not me because I didn't vote for her) How do you think they got the greens preferences in the first place? It was all smoke and mirrors.

I can imagine Juliar saying to Bob Brown.... "Shhh secret squirrel on this Bob, We will tell the great unwashed that there will be no carbon tax, then we get elected and then bam we change....our.....mind."

This Government is now too busy trying to stay in power rather than making effective policy and we are starting to pay for it. They have become the masters of deflection. Wasting precious parliamentary time on accusations of sexism and racism or anything that deflects attention from effectively debating the real issues. (Shiny ball! Look! Shiny ball!  )

As I said tiga, if you think the opposition wouldn't be doing or wouldn't have done exactly the same thing as the govt you are kidding yourself.

And as for deflection, again I don't think the govt is alone on that front. Perfect example: did you listen to the oppositions budget reply, all deflection and no substance or more to the point typical Abbott a list of what's wrong but no credible alternative.  

Believe it or not there is actually good coming out of what we have at the moment and that is for the first time in a long time people seem to be taking an interest in what's going on Canberra for far too long too many have been too complacent IMHO

What happens happens and we should all sit back and enjoy the ride 




 

[Tigeritis™©®]

WP, Do you honestly think that Gillard changed her mind on the Carbon Tax AFTER she was elected? Go and have a chat to Bob Brown. When asked in a press conference about his opinion on the Labor Government back pedaling on a carbon tax just prior to the election he said "From what he was told, a Carbon tax still going ahead as planned". Gillard Deceived us! (Well not me because I didn't vote for her) How do you think they got the greens preferences in the first place? It was all smoke and mirrors.

I can imagine Juliar saying to Bob Brown.... "Shhh secret squirrel on this Bob, We will tell the great unwashed that there will be no carbon tax, then we get elected and then bam we change....our.....mind."

This Government is now too busy trying to stay in power rather than making effective policy and we are starting to pay for it. They have become the masters of deflection. Wasting precious parliamentary time on accusations of sexism and racism or anything that deflects attention from effectively debating the real issues. (Shiny ball! Look! Shiny ball!  )

Why don't they just bring in Kenny Craig as the next climate change minister...."Look into my eyes, look into my eyes, the eyes, the eyes, not around the eyes, don't look around the eyes, look into my eyes. [click] You're under!....Global warming is happening at a disastrous rate and you must say YES!" 3,2,1....[click] You're back in the room...

funniest post ever. And so true! 

[tiger101]

*did you listen to the oppositions budget reply, all deflection and no substance or more to the point typical Abbott a list of what's wrong but no credible alternative.*

I think Abbott is doing a great job in opposition better then any Labor leader did. Seeing how Howard was in Majority rule for over a decade.
Abbott made history by making Labor dump there own PM in his first term. Then he ony came up 2 people short of kicking out a first term government.

[DCrane]

Abbott made history by making Labor dump there own PM in his first term.

Did he?
I think you are re-writing history T101. This was a text book case of factional implosion by the ALP. It had nothing to do with the mad monk.

[tiger101]

Before Abbott became leader Rudd was easily winning in the polls. He came in began a very strong anti-ETS campaign and anti-mining tax campaign in which the miners also took part in. Rudds popularity fell and Labor got scared they wasn't going to win the next election and the faction bosses dumped him.
 

[WilliamPowell]

Before Abbott became leader Rudd was easily winning in the polls. He came in began a very strong anti-ETS campaign and anti-mining tax campaign in which the miners also took part in. Rudds popularity fell and Labor got scared they wasn't going to win the next election and the faction bosses dumped him.
 

That's an interesting slant on things. But I don't think Tony can take any credit for the disposal of Rudd as leader. Rudd's popularity fell because he lost his spine (though I am not sure he had one to lose  ) over the ETS. If he & the Labor party had have the guts to go with a double disolution over the ETS they would have been returned easily. But unfortutnately for Kevin 07 he didn't and his popularity went south.

If you believe the polls over since Abbott's been leader they say he is less popular than the the current prime minister so I don't think he can claim any credit at all.

Is he doing a good job as opposition leader? That's up to people to decide. But if being the leader of the alternative govt in this great country is about telling me what's wrong but refusing to give me any concrete alternative policies I reckon he is doing a stunning job. Sasdy for Tony that's not what I want in an opposition

And delightful to see the 2009 Sky news vision of Tony saying how a price on carbon should/would work, and that's by introducing a "simple tax" that wouldn't "impact" to heavily as a major tax roll out would.  Now his minders are saying it's what he said but it isn't what he meant... Raises the questions: Has he flipped/flopped? In 2009 he would support a carbon tax but now he wont, what so different in 2011 compared to 2009? Has he deceived us? or is it OK to change your mind in opposition just not in govt? 

Batter up 

[FNM]

Tony Abbott is popular because, in Opposition, he goes with whatever is popular with the electorate.  It's a no brainer that everyone is against paying extra taxes
The test is when he has to govern and make decisions himself that are not popular.
Just play negative game to everything is Tony's theory and it's working for him
But he provides nothing as an alternative which is the real problem
Whether he likes it or not, a carbon tax or some other policy to combat climate issues, has to be addressed. The issue is not going to go away.
But there's a huge vacuum of emptiness coming from the other side!

[10 FLAGS]

Gillard will be the next leader to be destroyed by the Abbott express 

[WilliamPowell]

Here's Tony spin on a Carbon tax from 2009

Is he decieving us

=====

Abbott dogged by old carbon comment
June 7, 2011 - 7:11AM

Tony Abbott's past as a climate change "weather vane" has come back to haunt him - again.

The opposition leader has been shown spruiking a carbon tax in an old interview that was aired on ABC Television yesterday.

"If you want to put a price on carbon, why not just do it with a simple tax?" Mr Abbott argues.

"Why not ask electricity consumers to pay more, then at the end of the year you can take your invoices to the tax office and get a rebate.

"It would be burdensome - all taxes are burdensome - but it would certainly ... raise the price of carbon without increasing in any way the overall tax burden."

The interview was filmed in 2009, the same year "weather vane" Mr Abbott reneged on his support for an emissions trading scheme, which ultimately cost his predecessor, Malcolm Turnbull, his job.

Opposition frontbencher Christopher Pyne dismissed the video as nothing special and said he'd already seen it.

"Tony Abbott wasn't actually arguing in favour of a carbon tax, he was talking about all the options that were available," he said, as he once again backed the coalition's direct action plan.

The government, on the other hand, was delighted by the old footage.

"I haven't seen that video (before), but I enjoyed it, I must say," Health Minister Nicola Roxon said.

http://www.theage.com.au/environment/climate-change/abbott-dogged-by-old-carbon-comment-20110607-1fprb.html

 

Funny stuff indeed, as for Mr Pyne sometimes it's better just to shut up