Australian Politics thread [merged]

[tiger101]

The PPL isn't a one off nor a economic stimulant though unlike the stimulus package that was designed to urgently and rapidly stimulate an economy undergoing severe deflation (due to global effects) and stop it going into recession. You could argue in my individual case it was a waste of money as I didn't need the $900 but all up nationally it did the job it was designed to do (we stayed out of recession and unemployment stayed relatively low).

Do you really believe that MT. Interest rates are lower now then what they was at the time. Yes the stimulus checks would of boosted the retail sector but did it save the nation from a recession c'mon.

[mightytiges]

I remember this dill (a male in his late 20s/early 30s) in the Herald-Sun early last year complaining that it was hard living even on $150k a year now (he was married with one kid). When you read through the article he had a $800k mortgage  . Now why (unless you could afford it easily) would you go out and buy a first property pushing up towards the $800-900k mark!

Gee whiz 

Me and my missus are trying to get into our first home soon, and the hard part is finding a half decent home in a half decent suburb (don't wish to sound like a snob but we have absolutely no desire to move anywhere like Noble Park) that is on its own title (again, want nothing to do with body/owners corporate or any of that bureaucratic crap) . The ballpark of this criteria is $450k-$550k, and while we can that sort of money approved from a reliable lender (as in a bank) it's still a scary amount to have hanging over our heads if anything was to happen to either of our jobs. How anyone would be able to get a $800k loan or even want borrow that much on a typical wage has me stuffed. That's ridiculous. It doesn't help that the state government has scrapped the first home owners grant for established properties ($10k for new though). They've marginally increased the amount of stamp duty they'll chip in, but it's going to require more number crunching when actually looking to buy something (luckily my partner is in conveyancing so I've left all that to her  ). We don't pay anything ridiculous in rent, but paying rent at the same time as trying to save just seems never ending. TBH we've conceded we'll never come up with 20%, which means we'll have to get mortgage insurance which again will cut into what we will end up being able to borrow. It's really depressing because home prices have gone up much more than wages have.

With just two units on a block there's no legal need for a functioning body corporate. There's of course the issue of common ground if a driveway is shared but some two unit blocks these days have separate driveways so you're completely separate from the other unit's property. Middle surburbia is definitely going the way of units and townhouses as increased population density is encouraged by the local councils. 

[Smokey]

Interesting points you make Smokey

I always find the question of the state of the nation an interesting one.

By state of the nation I mean how are we as citizens going/living/surviving? The question I am always asking myself is are we better off or worse now than say 1, 3, 5 or 10 years ago? Are we as a nation becoming more greedy with what want and what we think we are entitled to (yep my welfare chestnut again)? Are we sadly just turning into a bunch of sooks unable to perhaps make the sacrifices we need to; to adjust to the current climate?

But seriosuly when I sit down and look at my situation and look at what's going on around me and answer each of those 
those questions as honeslty as I can I come up with My family is no worse off to Q1 and Yes to the other 2.

Is that a reflection on society looking for someone to blame and not taking responsibility for their collective lot in life. Or is it the fault of the government papmering away to the "i am owed something" menatalty or a combination of both? Seems to me so many people are looking for someone/anyone to blame

I keep hearing and reading that this is the worst government in Australia's history but I question it simply because as I said I am no worse off under this government to what I was under the previous one or the one before that.

I know what tough times are and what they mean. I just don't think people do it that tough these days. I dont think they understand ehat doing it tough actuall means/is.

We were raised solely by my Mum because my Dad died when I was 7. We did it tough. She did it bloody tough. I know what it is like to have to wear "hand me down clothes" because she couldn't afford to buy new ones for us. I know what it's like to not to go on a school camp because we couldn't afford it. I know what it's like to not go on family holidays because we couldn't afford too. So I think I have a good handle of doing it tough

But at the same time and I know it sounds stupid we never wanted for anything because I know how hard she worked to give us the best life and up bringing she could.

The most important thing she taught us though was to work for things and to not expect handouts. If you can't afford don't buy. If you want something save for it - it's not that hard

But today people are so tuned into wanting and expecting that they class not receiving what they want or expect as doing it tough. I suppose the question becomes who's faults that? Their own or the governments

I wholeheartedly agree with you WP re: the 'wanting everything now' mentality as opposed to how we 'older types' were raised with hand-me-down clothing, repairing broken appliances, the cheapest cuts of meat and the myriad of other lifestyle improvement sacrifices that came naturally, if not easily, to our parents.  But that also serves to highlight my point about what this current government is doing to our economy.  As a country we have gone from having enough money in the bank to survive a rainy day, to living on the never never and getting further and further into debt with every passing day.  They now blame the reduction in receipts from budgeted estimates but there was no shortage of reputable organizations warning of this folly a few years back and Swan and Gillard took no notice, continuing to spend money on half-baked schemes, promise budget surpluses and claim responsible fiscal management while the economy went further and further and further into the red.  Initially they blamed the GFC (not Geelong Football Club  ) for the loss of the surplus but by Swan's own admission that was over by 2010 yet we have hurtled further into debt every year since, for no purpose except to fund pointless schemes at the apparent whim of whatever seems "a good idea at the time".  As an accountant I am very confident you have practiced sound financial management of your affairs and as a result of any downturn or negative episode in our economy or your circumstances you are well placed to withstand or ignore it, as have many other Australians. But................there are many many many more who haven't been as fiscally responsible for whatever reason and they will seriously hurt with the slightest downturn in their circumstance - loss of job, increase in rent, medical emergency, relationship breakup etc.  And so it is with our country - we had our rainy day money and (rightly or wrongly but that debate is for another day) this what we used to deal with the GFC.  Since then however, we have continued to spend and borrow, spend and borrow with little justification and little purpose except to appease minority whims and knee jerk causes.  And just like the citizen who practices this method of running his own affairs - the outcome is inevitable and painful - the only trouble is the citizen only harms himself, the government makes us all pay the price for ineptitude.

[Smokey]

Have you thought about going "new" dwaino?

There are number of new estates around, not that far out of town (Williams Landing, Point Cook in the west ) that have H&L packages for under $450K and you get the grant, plus should be able to get cheaper S/Duty too (well used to be able too)

Lol at Point Cook being discussed as the "new".  I lived in Laverton during the early 70's and back then Point Cook was the far end of the earth - all that was there was a largely under-utilised RAAF base.  I can't comprehend it now being a vital part of the Melbourne residential scene.   

[Smokey]

My point is you can still reasonably do it if you're willing to make sacrifices and go without certain things for the time being. It's those who "want it all now" that get themselves into trouble and then sook about it blaming everyone else

Shame the government doesn't abide by this MT.

[WilliamPowell]

Have you thought about going "new" dwaino?

There are number of new estates around, not that far out of town (Williams Landing, Point Cook in the west ) that have H&L packages for under $450K and you get the grant, plus should be able to get cheaper S/Duty too (well used to be able too)

Lol at Point Cook being discussed as the "new".  I lived in Laverton during the early 70's and back then Point Cook was the far end of the earth - all that was there was a largely under-utilised RAAF base.  I can't comprehend it now being a vital part of the Melbourne residential scene.   

Williams Landing is out the back of where the old William RAAF base was in Laverton. 

It is a great area now, lots of building going on, plenty of amenities and reasonable in price. Not a bad place to live the west these days

[WilliamPowell]

My point is you can still reasonably do it if you're willing to make sacrifices and go without certain things for the time being. It's those who "want it all now" that get themselves into trouble and then sook about it blaming everyone else

Shame the government doesn't abide by this MT.

Shame they all don't Smokey.

It doesn't matter who's in power neither side will abolish all these handouts that we cannot afford to fund. I'd vote for any side of politics that had the guts to do that 

And can I add going into their last election campaign the Howard govt were spending or promising to spend the surpluses they had stock piled. why? Because they wanted to win an election.

All sides do it and will continue to do so because when it's all said and done they are more about power than doing right by its citizens.

[dwaino]

Have you thought about going "new" dwaino?

There are number of new estates around, not that far out of town (Williams Landing, Point Cook in the west ) that have H&L packages for under $450K and you get the grant, plus should be able to get cheaper S/Duty too (well used to be able too)

Yeah we're looking new too, but nothing out in the sticks. I don't mind so much but the missus works in town and can't stand the commute from Mentone as it is. I think the closest they're doing these packages south east way is out Pakenham/Cranny way lol. We're renting a lovely brand new two story town house in a new estate and had a look at what they were to buy (started at around $480k, now selling $650k+ established) but we've copped neighbours from hell in all directions and an owners corporation that fashion themselves on the Gestapo. So it's a house on it's own title or else lol. Been looking at houses on subdivided blocks and some of those have fit our budget and criteria.

My mum says, and I know it's the truth, "your first home isn't meant to be your dream home" but I don't think we're being too unreasonable  we just want our own place where we can enjoy a bit of peace, where we're not scared anything not bolted down will get pinched, not a million miles from everything, sufficient if we decide to start a family, and enough space to get a dog.

[Rampstar]

Interesting debate in here. I think when someone is trying to get somewhere decent and they have a budget of say $500,000 to $550,000 a lot depends on where they work and how far they are prepared to travel. For example $550k doesnt get you very much in Melbourne but if youre prepared to live on the mornington peninsula and travel the new freeway etc  you can get a fantastic house with a great lifestyle in  Rye. I know a few people who made this exact same decision, they love it although they admit that driving home at night is much harder than it is driving into work in the morning. I suppose its because they are tired but friday night comes along and they are near the beach and they have a nice quiet lifestyle (maybe not in summer though).

[dwaino]

Interesting debate in here. I think when someone is trying to get somewhere decent and they have a budget of say $500,000 to $550,000 a lot depends on where they work and how far they are prepared to travel. For example $550k doesnt get you very much in Melbourne but if youre prepared to live on the mornington peninsula and travel the new freeway etc  you can get a fantastic house with a great lifestyle in  Rye. I know a few people who made this exact same decision, they love it although they admit that driving home at night is much harder than it is driving into work in the morning. I suppose its because they are tired but friday night comes along and they are near the beach and they have a nice quiet lifestyle (maybe not in summer though).

You can get a tidy 3 bedroom house on its own block under $500k around Edithvale and Chelsea (I guess still on the Mornington peninsula but maybe not as far down as you were suggesting ). Ideally that's where I would to go and I only work just in Moorabbin anyway. But the missus works in Brunswick and won't have a bar of it lol. Trying to tell her if it's not there then we'll have to look around the good side of Springvale or Oakleigh because anything closer to town from here is out of the question unless we win Tatts.

[Francois Jackson]

You a man or a mouse Dwaino. Don't worry what the woman think tell them whose the boss?

Edithvale is a good spot. Missed out on a nice house there back in 04. Il be moving to that area come 2015. Good schools and within a good price range.

I grew up in Mulgrave, another suburb i rate highly, and you can find good buys around $450-475. Asians are buying up big given the proximity to Monash. Clayton, oakleigh all above 700k but Mulgrave is still well priced, not sure for how long.

[1965]

My first house cost $32,000.

It is now worth $650,000

 

[mightytiges]

The PPL isn't a one off nor a economic stimulant though unlike the stimulus package that was designed to urgently and rapidly stimulate an economy undergoing severe deflation (due to global effects) and stop it going into recession. You could argue in my individual case it was a waste of money as I didn't need the $900 but all up nationally it did the job it was designed to do (we stayed out of recession and unemployment stayed relatively low).

Do you really believe that MT. Interest rates are lower now then what they was at the time. Yes the stimulus checks would of boosted the retail sector but did it save the nation from a recession c'mon.

Yes I do.

The issues affecting Australia now are different to back in 2008-9. Back at the height of the GFC we had a global economy contracting at a rate not seen since the Great Depression of the 1930s. This was causing the Australian economy to contract quickly as well. Lowering interest rates, while partly a stimulus in itself, was not enough to counter the scale of the contraction.  It's probably a Keynesian solution but in a deflationary environment Government provides artificial stimulus which by its nature is inflationary to the counter the deflation and subsequent rising unemployment. The stimulus package(s) were wide ranging to provide instant and longer range stimulus. Most of the ideas were successful although a couple stuffed up (pink bats the obvious one). Overall though the whole strategy worked which is the main thing. IIRC we did have one quarter of negative growth but not the two or more in a row which corresponds officially as a recession. Unemployment peaked at 7.4% from memory rather than reach the double digit figures that would've occurred if no stimulus had been implemented and we had gone into recession. Going into recession would've devastated confidence and created panic which then sends the economy on a self-perpetuating downward spiral. This was the lesson learnt from the Great Depression where old school traditional cuts were made by Governments and as a result the whole economy collapsed and created mass unemployment for a whole decade. The footage of lines of men stretching for blocks and around corners looking for work is testament to the economic devastation that occurred in the 1930s. The Depression probably would've lasted longer too if not for WWII. Australia was one of the countries worst hit by the Great Depression by the way. The fact the current Government acted so swiftly with the stimulus package(s) and provided certainty with bank guarantees etc ... no doubt kept Australia out of recession. It would be hard to find a economist who would disagree with that.

As for now, the main problem is the high Australian dollar. During the GFC our dollar fell to below 70 US cents. However because Australia didn't go into recession we didn't need to lower rates to the almost 0% levels that occurred in Europe, America and Japan. So while our rates fell to historically low levels by Australian standards, they were still high relative to other OCED countries. That meant overseas investors flooded in to buy the Aussie dollar and it shot up to above parity where it has stayed at for over two years. We became a victim of our own success. With the high Aussie dollar, it has crueled our manufacturing, retail and tourism sectors. Normally that would slow the economy and force further rate falls to stimulate the economy causing the Aussie dollar to fall as well which would've helped these sectors. However, we had a two speed economy - the mining boom in WA and Qld and high commodity prices it meant the Aussie dollar stayed above parity and it meant overall inflation figures stayed 'normal' so the RBA couldn't cut interest rates without risking inflation rising above the 2-3% band.  With the fall in commodity prices over the past 6-9 months and the end of the mining boom, inflation is now well under control again if not at the lower end and the RBA has room to move to lower interest rates further to try and stimulate the economy and these weaker sectors. Still the Aussie dollar is above parity as we speak despite the rate cut. Another rate cut is on the cards you would think.

[mightytiges]

My point is you can still reasonably do it if you're willing to make sacrifices and go without certain things for the time being. It's those who "want it all now" that get themselves into trouble and then sook about it blaming everyone else

Shame the government doesn't abide by this MT.

Shame they all don't Smokey.

It doesn't matter who's in power neither side will abolish all these handouts that we cannot afford to fund. I'd vote for any side of politics that had the guts to do that 

And can I add going into their last election campaign the Howard govt were spending or promising to spend the surpluses they had stock piled. why? Because they wanted to win an election.

All sides do it and will continue to do so because when it's all said and done they are more about power than doing right by its citizens.

Spot on WP.

One problem is the mortgage belts around the country often contain most of the marginal seats that the pollies worry about winning the most. So the side that decides to abolish all these handouts would risk electoral defeat. As you said WP,  the pollies are more about power than doing right by its citizens.

[1965]

Unemployment falls again.

What a bad bad government we have.   

Surprise jobs surge pushes unemployment lower

By online business reporter Michael Janda

The unemployment rate has confounded most economists by falling from 5.6 to 5.5 per cent.

The Bureau of Statistics labour force survey estimates that 50,100 jobs were added in April, with 34,500 full-time positions and 15,600 part-time jobs created.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-09/abs-employment-figures-april/4679182