Author Topic: Australian Politics thread [merged]  (Read 993741 times)

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #3360 on: September 26, 2015, 06:34:36 PM »
Mal has been in the job for what 5 mins and your already tarnishing him with the same brush as his predecessors.

Come on I bet if it was Mr Union you'd be singing a different tune.

You've missed he point (again)

Point being the replacing of another PM by his party had more to do with the fear of losing the next election. It was about power. Over the last 5-6 years  every single political party has done the same thing 

As opposed to each govt actually doing what they are supposed to be doing and that's running the bloody country in the best interest of its constituents

Not about who the leader is, it was about the ineptitude of our pokies and their collective born to rule mentality
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Offline Penelope

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #3361 on: September 26, 2015, 06:58:53 PM »
Mal has been in the job for what 5 mins and your already tarnishing him with the same brush as his predecessors.

Come on I bet if it was Mr Union you'd be singing a different tune.

You've missed he point (again)

Point being the replacing of another PM by his party had more to do with the fear of losing the next election. It was about power. Over the last 5-6 years  every single political party has done the same thing 

As opposed to each govt actually doing what they are supposed to be doing and that's running the bloody country in the best interest of its constituents

Not about who the leader is, it was about the ineptitude of our pokies and their collective born to rule mentality
pollies, pokies - all the same thing, flashing lights and mind numbing noise to rope you in, take your money and give you stuff all in return
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Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

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yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Offline 1965

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #3362 on: September 26, 2015, 07:31:06 PM »

Maybe we should adopt the US model in part.

A PM can only have two terms before giving up the leadership.

Might change their focus.

 :thumbsup
Yeah we're already going to vote for him mate, you don't need to keep selling it.....

Online Francois Jackson

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #3363 on: September 26, 2015, 08:40:48 PM »

I don't disagree with what gig said re: the previous governments in the last few yrs but give this government a go. We have never had a leader who is liked by both sides and importantly by the people. He may well be the next Johnny Howard or Whitlam.


edited, keep the disrespectful insulting comments showing total lack of respect towards women off the forum. Not necessary
« Last Edit: September 26, 2015, 09:14:46 PM by WilliamPowell »
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Dougeytherichmondfan

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #3364 on: September 28, 2015, 06:39:20 PM »

Maybe we should adopt the US model in part.

A PM can only have two terms before giving up the leadership.

Might change their focus.

 :thumbsup

Spot on. A massive weakness of our political system are the indefinite terms. Fixed terms have worked really well in Vic over the last 12 years or so, makes complete sense. Consistency with leadership and gives impending governments a proper mandate.

Gigantor

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #3365 on: September 28, 2015, 07:30:49 PM »
i know its probably impossible to do ,but one way of improving our political system could be to reduce or remove the influence of lobby groups,primarily unions,business groups,media barons.
Not bowing to the demands of such groups might result in more  objective decision making.

Dougeytherichmondfan

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #3366 on: September 28, 2015, 07:40:27 PM »
Absolutely, but practically speaking its not possible. Aside from far right groups using "commi" scare tactics, most pollies make it on campaigns funded by groups who expect votes and policies in their favour at later dates.

Offline Stalin

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #3367 on: September 29, 2015, 12:29:21 PM »
Maybe more if this

But it'd pee off too many big wigs


Brazil's top court bans corporate money in election campaigns

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0RH33A20150917

BRASILIA (Reuters) - Brazil's Supreme Court decided on Thursday to ban corporate donations to election campaign financing in a move to clean up Brazilian politics caught in a massive kickback scandal.

The top court voted 8-3 to allow election donations from individuals but not from companies, a decision that renders unconstitutional a bill passed last week by the country's Congress allowing corporate funding for political parties.

The ruling comes in the midst of Brazil's biggest corruption investigation into bribes and political kickbacks on contracts with state-oil company Petrobras. The funds allegedly went into the pockets of dozens of politicians in President Dilma Rousseff's governing coalition.

Then he grabbed two chopsticks and stuck them in his mouth , pretending to be a walrus

Dougeytherichmondfan

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #3368 on: September 30, 2015, 02:56:29 PM »
Maybe more if this

But it'd pee off too many big wigs


Brazil's top court bans corporate money in election campaigns

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0RH33A20150917

BRASILIA (Reuters) - Brazil's Supreme Court decided on Thursday to ban corporate donations to election campaign financing in a move to clean up Brazilian politics caught in a massive kickback scandal.

The top court voted 8-3 to allow election donations from individuals but not from companies, a decision that renders unconstitutional a bill passed last week by the country's Congress allowing corporate funding for political parties.

The ruling comes in the midst of Brazil's biggest corruption investigation into bribes and political kickbacks on contracts with state-oil company Petrobras. The funds allegedly went into the pockets of dozens of politicians in President Dilma Rousseff's governing coalition.
Its alarming how close this hits the mark in our own systems. Unions and corporations alike.

Offline 🏅Dooks

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #3369 on: September 30, 2015, 03:07:59 PM »
Maybe more if this

But it'd pee off too many big wigs


Brazil's top court bans corporate money in election campaigns

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0RH33A20150917

BRASILIA (Reuters) - Brazil's Supreme Court decided on Thursday to ban corporate donations to election campaign financing in a move to clean up Brazilian politics caught in a massive kickback scandal.

The top court voted 8-3 to allow election donations from individuals but not from companies, a decision that renders unconstitutional a bill passed last week by the country's Congress allowing corporate funding for political parties.

The ruling comes in the midst of Brazil's biggest corruption investigation into bribes and political kickbacks on contracts with state-oil company Petrobras. The funds allegedly went into the pockets of dozens of politicians in President Dilma Rousseff's governing coalition.
Its alarming how close this hits the mark in our own systems. Unions and corporations alike.

I'd be tipping union donations are a bee's pee in the ocean compared to corporations.

But the principle is the same
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Gigantor

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #3370 on: September 30, 2015, 06:15:32 PM »
Dooks ..dont labour also get business donations ?Not to the same extent as the Libs but they certainly do get them
« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 05:38:20 PM by Gigantor »

Offline Stalin

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #3371 on: September 30, 2015, 08:03:25 PM »
Dooks ..dont labour also get business donations also?Not to the same extent as the Libs but they certainly do get them

not much

Figures for the last financial year show the Liberal Party's national and state divisions received more than $13 million in donations, while Labor was given $3.6 million.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/interactives/tables/aec-political-donations-table/

http://www.abc.net.au/news/interactives/tables/aec-political-donations-table/

its mostly bollocks anyway:

Inghams Enterprises Pty Limited   Australian Labor Party (ALP)   250000
Inghams Enterprises Pty Limited   Liberal Party of Australia   250000


 ::)

the seppo one is more interesting to look at
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Offline Stalin

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #3372 on: September 30, 2015, 08:07:43 PM »
if you look into it its all a load of crap ...

this gentleman is more articulate than i

http://harvardnsj.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Glennon-Final.pdf

->



Quote



national security policy has scarcely changed from the Bush to
the Obama Administration. The theory of Walter Bagehot explains why.
Bagehot described the emergence in 19th-century Britain of a “disguised
republic” consisting of officials who actually exercised governmental power
but remained unnoticed by the public, which continued to believe that
visible, formal institutions exercised legal authorit
y.601 Dual institutions of
governance, one public and the other concealed, were referred to by
Bagehot as “double government.
”602 A similar process of bifurcated
institutional evolution has occurred in the United States, but in reverse: a
network has emerged within the federal government that exercises
predominant power with respect to national security matters.
It has evolved
in response to structural incentives rather than invidious intent, and it
consists of the several hundred executive officials who manage the military,
intelligence, diplomatic, and law enforcement agencies responsible for
protecting the nation’s security. These officials are as little disposed to stake
out new policies as they are to abandon old ones. They define security more
in military and intelligence terms rather than in political or diplomatic ones.

 


Enough examples exist to persuade the public that the network is
subject to judicial, legislative, and executive constraints. This appearance is
important to its operation, for the network derives legitimacy from the
ostensible authority of the public, constitutional branches of the
government. The appearance of accountability is, however, largely an
illusion fostered by those institutions’ pedigree, ritual, intelligibility,
mystery, and superficial harmony with the network’s ambitions. The courts,
Congress, and even the presidency in reality impose little constraint.
Judicial review is negligible; congressional oversight dysfunctional; and
presidential control nominal. Past efforts to revive these institutions have
thus fallen flat. Future reform efforts are no more likely to succeed, relying
as they must upon those same institutions to restore power to themselves by
exercising the very power that they lack. External constraints—public
opinion and the press—are insufficient to check it. Both are manipulable,
and their vitality depends heavily upon the vigor of constitutionally
established institutions, which would not have withered had those external
constraints had real force. Nor is it likely that any such constraints can be
restored through governmental efforts to inculcate greater civic virtue,
which would ultimately concentrate power even further. Institutional
restoration can come only from an energized body politic. The prevailing
incentive structure, however, encourages the public to become less, not
more, informed and engaged.



To many, inculcated in the hagiography of Madisonian checks and
balances and oblivious of the reach of Trumanite power, the response to
these realizations will be denial. The image of a double national security
government will be shocking. It cannot be right. It sounds of conspiracy, “a
state within,” and other variations on that theme. “The old notion that our
Government is an extrinsic agency,” Bagehot wrote, “still rules our
imaginations.”603 That the Trumanite network could have emerged in full
public view and without invidious intent makes its presence all the more
implausible. Its existence challenges all we have been taught.
There is, however, little room for shock. The pillars of America’s
double government have long stood in plain view for all to see. We have
learned about significant aspects of what Bagehot described—from some
eminent thinkers. Max Weber’s work on bureaucracies showed that, left
unchecked, the inexorability of bureaucratization can lead to a “polar night
of icy darkness” in which humanitarian values are sacrificed for abstract
organizational ends.604 Friedrich Hayek’s work on political organization led
him to conclude that “the greatest danger to liberty today comes from the
men who are most needed and most powerful in government, namely, the
efficient expert administrators exclusively concerned with what they regard
as the public good.”605 Eric Fromm’s work on social psychology showed
how people unconsciously adopt societal norms as their own to avoid
anxiety-producing choices, so as to “escape from freedom.”606 Irving Janis’s
work on group dynamics showed that the greater a group’s esprit de corps,
“the greater the danger that independent critical thinking will be replaced by
groupthink, which is likely to result in irrational and dehumanizing actions
directed against out-groups.”607 Michael Reisman’s work on jurisprudence
has shown how de facto operational codes can quietly arise behind publiclyembraced
myth systems, allowing for governmental conduct that is not
approved openly by the law.608 Mills’ 1956 work on power elites showed
that the centralization of authority among officials who hold a common
world view and operate in secrecy can produce a “military metaphysic”
directed at maintaining a “permanent war economy.”609 One person familiar
with Mills’ work was political scientist Malcolm Moos, the presidential
speechwriter who five years later wrote President Eisenhower’s prophetic
warning.610 “In the councils of government,” Eisenhower said, “we must
guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or



unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the
disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.”611
Bagehot anticipated these risks. Bureaucracy, he wrote, is “the most
unimproving and shallow form of government,”612 and the executive that
commands it “the most dangerous.”613 “If it is left to itself,” he observed,
“without a mixture of special and non-special minds,” decisional authority
“will become technical, self-absorbed, self-multiplying.”614 The net result is
responsibility that is neither fixed nor ascertainable but diffused and
hidden,615 with implications that are beyond historical dispute. “The most
disastrous decisions in the twentieth century,” in Robert Dahl’s words,
“turned out to be those made by authoritarian leaders freed from democratic
restraints.”616
The benefits derived by the United States from double government
—enhanced technical expertise, institutional memory and experience,
quick-footedness, opaqueness in confronting adversaries, policy stabilit




y,
and insulation from popular political oscillation and decisional idiosyncrasy
—need hardly be recounted. Those benefits, however, have not been costfree.
The price lies in well-known risks flowing from centralized power,
unaccountability, and the short-circuiting of power equilibria. Indeed, in this
regard the Framers thought less in terms of risk than certainty. John Adams
spoke for many: “The nation which will not adopt an equilibrium of power
must adopt a despotism. There is no other alternative.”617
The trivial risk of sudden despotism, of an abrupt turn to a police
state or dictatorship installed with coup-like surprise, has created a false

sense of security in the United States.618 That a strongman of the sort easily
visible in history could suddenly burst forth is not a real risk. The risk,
rather, is the risk of slowly tightening centralized power, growing and
evolving organically beyond public view, increasingly unresponsive to
Madisonian checks and balances. Madison wrote, “There are more instances
of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent
encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden
usurpations.”619 Recent history bears out his insight. Dahl has pointed out
that in the 20th century—the century of democracy’s great triumph—some
seventy democracies collapsed and quietly gave way to authoritarian
regimes.620 That risk correlates with voter ignorance; the term Orwellian
has little meaning to a people who have never known anything different,
who have scant knowledge of history, civics, or public affairs, and who in
any event have likely never heard of George Orwell. “If a nation expects to
be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization,” Thomas Jefferson wrote, “it
expects what never was and never will be.”621 What form of government
ultimately will emerge from the United States’ experiment with double
government is uncertain. The risk is considerable, however, that it will not
be a democracy.
Then he grabbed two chopsticks and stuck them in his mouth , pretending to be a walrus

Offline Penelope

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #3373 on: October 01, 2015, 04:50:40 PM »
lol do you really expect anyone to read all that?
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Offline Stalin

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Re: Australian Politics thread [merged]
« Reply #3374 on: October 02, 2015, 07:30:39 AM »
lol do you really expect anyone to read all that?

http://harvardnsj.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Glennon-Final.pdf

Thats a free copy of the Michael J. Glennon book
Then he grabbed two chopsticks and stuck them in his mouth , pretending to be a walrus